Finally made the transition from being a scooter rider to a proper bike rider in Chiang Mai

[jay1980]

Hi

After over 10 years of coming and staying in Thailand often riding scooters, mostly automatics and semi auto's, I finally started learning to ride a proper bike.

I have been thinking of doing this for a couple of years after renting a click at Tony's Big Bikes in Chiang Mai, and asking Tony (who no longer works there BTW) about what training would be available to learn how to ride a proper bike.

He told me they have a guy who trains people up, and I finally got round too trying it out.

I wanted to try on a CBR250 as I felt this is one of the style's of bike that I would like to own should I like the experience.

I came to the store at the arranged time, was kitted out in a quality Arai helmet and a mesh jacket with built in protection.

The training guy arrived, his name is Bobby and was very helpful and friendly. He suggested that we started out on a Honda Phantom due to its lower centre of gravity, and also cheaper repair costs should it all go wrong. He rode with me on the back to a local school where I started off getting used to the clutch, then gears etc then getting a feel for the bike riding round the car park and the road round the school playing field.

After a couple of hours on the Phantom at the school he asked if I would like to stick with that bike of move onto the more modern bike. I was keen to try the modern bike as the Phantom was not the style of bike that would appeal to me personally (no disrespect to any of the Phantom bike riders out there) so we headed back to the bike shop. Before taking out the other bike I did a lap of the moat on the Phantom just to get used to the gears in traffic.

They did not have a CBR250 so I took a 250 Ninja, we went back to the school with me on the back and although the Ninja felt more intimidating at first it felt great after a bit of time, not that I was revving much over 4000 rpm at this stage. After a couple of hours around the school with 'arjan' Bobby watching as occasionally offering advise we headed back to the shop with me on the back, then Bobby got his own bike and we road round the moat with me following, stalled once and struggled a bit to get it into neutral as it would not start with just letting in the clutch but no serious issues.

I then booked Bobby the next day for a ride up into the mountains. I had the bike alone so later that evening I went for a ride to a lake just outside town with a Thai friend.

At this stage I honestly would have been quicker on a click than managing the Ninja with so many things to think about but that was because I was still deep in the learning curve.

The next day met Bobby where I was staying and we set off for an afternoon ride with me following him on his own bike. He stopped occasionally to give me advise and constructive criticism when needed, also explaining to me how to counter steer and when I was to tense on the bike.

We went for an enjoyable ride, of course I was on the slow side round the corners but my confidence grew a lot. We stopped by some Thai friend of his on the way and also a market and he also spoke excellent Thai, some of the best Thai I have heard a farang speak since I have been coming to Thailand for over 10 years. I even got some tips for my own Thai studies as well as my bike lesson.

By the end of the ride I was really loving riding the proper bike, where 24 hours earlier it was intimidating by this time it felt so much more secure, particularly when going down steep hills, with the engine controlling the speed, not the brakes. I have never felt really confident going down steep hills on a auto scooter but on the Ninja it just felt so much more secure and safe.

I know I still have a lot to learn about riding and plan to go on more rides like this before I attempt any major challenges alone but this was a really good introduction.

The whole experience cost about 3500 baht including Bobby's fee, bike hire for 2 days including damage insurance and some petrol and it was a great experience that I really enjoyed. The only bad thing is I have to add about 100,000 baht or so to my 'permanently moving to Thailand fund' for a proper bike :-)

If anyone would like to make the transition from scooters to proper bikes but are not sure where to start, if you could make it to Chiang Mai I really recommend contacting Tony's Big Bikes and booking a lesson and ride with Bobby.

Cheers

Edited May 4, 2014 by jay1980

[RubberSideDown]

Excellent- it's good to hear that you've made the effort learn properly, which isn't the usual thing to do in LOS- after you pass the 'newbie' stage, go back and take an advanced class if one is offered.

[guzzi850m2]

That is cool man, glad you had a good time and that you liked it. I think you are doing the right thing by doing it the way you are, 3500 Baht well spend, keep on riding.

For me it's the other way round, been riding big bikes for many years but at the movement only scooters.

In many Western countries getting a bike licence is no easy task nowaday, you will be riding on a closed track and they will in some cases even wet it so you learn riding on wet roads as well.

Many older Gents comes to Thailand for retirement and start riding scooters/bikes for the first time in their life, some will learn and even start to like it, some will crash and maybe even die, which is sad.

The more skilled you are, the better you chances are for having a good time riding bikes.

A used CBR 250 should give you good fun when you think you are ready or perhaps even the new soon to come CBR300.

[NeverSure]

"He stopped occasionally to give me advise and constructive criticism when needed, also explaining to me how to counter steer and when I was to tense on the bike."

So many older guys and untrained people don't know about countersteering. I'm so glad he showed you. I can never pass up an opportunity to discuss it because it can absolutely save your life.

It is good for dodging objects, but is also used with light pressure at highway speeds for every corner.

[Lockheed]

That is cool man, glad you had a good time and that you liked it. I think you are doing the right thing by doing it the way you are, 3500 Baht well spend, keep on riding.

For me it's the other way round, been riding big bikes for many years but at the movement only scooters.

Good on ya mate, have fun.

The only big bikes I'm interested in are the dirt bikes, otherwise it's the scooters all the way.

I came across an older bloke near Chiang Rai, who had a Chinese copy of a 250 Honda and had all sorts of problems riding it, mind you it was pretty harsh dirt bike terrain but the scooters didn't have a problem, that's when I realized that these scooters are the way to travel, you take them just about anywhere.

[ll2]

Nice man. Congrats. You know what they say, it is not a shame not knowing something but it is a shame not learning it.

You will like it more and more with more confidence. Never forget to gear up at all times, even if it is a short ride to 7/11.

And never fall into the traps of overconfidence. You will need a couple of years to fully realize things. So some patience.

[brfsa2]

congrats man. there will be a lot more to learn once you get your own bike. setting up braking, cornering, counter-steering, bike maintenance, and your bike limits.

take your time to practice it all and watch some youtube videos.

you should get at least a CBR250 or better a Ninja 300, so you wont get bored too quickly from a 150cc in a few months. LOL

[jay1980]

Many thanks for the positive feedback and advise, I know and I am still a n00b really and have no intention of trying to run before I can walk.

I few days after I did my riding I saw this horrible post on TV:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/720552-how-not-to-overtake/

I am happy I saw it after my ride not before, but seeing something like this does bring the dangers of being overconfident and blasé about safety.

That said these thoughts make me want to minimize risk learn properly within my limits and with good advise, not make me run away and hide under my bedsheets 555.

I have managed to drive cars and ride scooters in Thailand for 10 years without any major issues, so used to the 'be prepared for anything' approach which should help me I hope.

Regarding gear, I think it is a compromise in Thailand, my cousin is keen biker in the UK and I cannot image wearing his leathers in Thailand, but the mesh jacket was fine and not hot at all even in the current hot weather. When riding scooters I always try to wear leather trainers (not flip flops like most Thai's) and the best helmet available.

Sadly I am back in the UK for 4 months or so now but keen to ride again, hopefully in CM with Bobby, thinking I would like to try a D-Tracker Motard type bike next time as this style of bike also appeals to me to try and decide which one I prefer.

cheers

[Shurup]

Congrats! As others said, don't get too confident too fast. Ride as much as you can now to polish your skills until everything you do is automatic. After that take the defensive riding class. They may or may not be available here in Thailand so if you're back to the UK, take it there. The main point of it is not to put yourself in a dangerous situation from which you can't escape. Remember that in Thailand lots of road rules are getting ignored, there are imbeciles who pass going around blind corners and over blind hills, always keep it in the back of your head and have an escape plan.

Good thing that you were told about the countersteering, to get the best feel of how it works, try riding with only one hand (right hand obviously), you will soon find out that you need to steer in the opposite direction of where you want to go.

I found the counter steering to dodge objects (as demonstrated in the video in post #4) works better on a cruiser bike rather than a sports bike (I own both). On a cruiser, with a quick push on the bars the bike leans over and goes in the opposite direction and then straightens up, all happening real quick. On a sports bike (Ninja 300) it doesn't quite work this way, not to the same extent, and after straightening up the steering keeps wobbling side to side for a few seconds. I don't know if it's a Ninja thing or a general way it works on Sports bikes, I believe it might have something to do with the caster angle on the cruiser bikes.

[GAZZPA]

Nice post, I went through a similar experience, except I couldn't find anyone in Pattaya / Jomtien to give me lessons.

So,whilst on business back in the UK I took lessons, passed the basic first course and got used to the clutch and operation of the bike. I also spent a lot of time on the internet reading advice on riding which i found very useful. I started on a Honda phantom and crusier style bikes are more me, so I moved onto a Honda Shadow which is much more stable and safer to ride.

Interestingly I was renting bikes for a while and I have got to know the rental guy really well. one day he bought round a bike he had just bought for his shop, it was a Yamaha Royal Star 1300 CC v4. Huge bike and he was sure I would like it.. But I had only be riding for 6 or 7 months riding it was waaay too much, I asked him to take it away the same day. For sports bikes you can ride at significant speeds on relatively low displacement bikes, so whatever you do don't push it, take your time before jumping on a bigger bike.

Good to hear you had some teaching on counter steering, I spent too long reading about this,, it's actually pretty simple really but you must practice. It is the only way to swerve quickly and avoid the unexpected objects. Also, when you use it out and about and learn how to judge the corners and counter steer the twisty roads it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable. The trick is take it slow, don't push your ability, ever,, you will increase speed and skill over time and you should just let it happen naturally.

Point to consider. The thing I prefer about scooters is that you have a lot more storage. For nipping around town I have a Honda PCX which is a great scooter and I really like the idea of the maxi scooters such as the Suzuki Skywave (Burgman) or perhaps even the Honda Silverwing. The Suzuki 650 has acres of storage, electric mirror, heated grips and seat (limited use in Thailand I know), charger for your phone etc,, basically it is loaded with features where as a cruiser is generally very basic.

I know a lot of riders will gasp at the idea of this but I don't really mind. So, for me my next bike purchase may be either a "mid" sized crusier such as Honda Shadow 750 OR a bigger maxi scooter such as the Suzuki Skywave 650 Executive. Haven't decided yet, either way it's going to be fun.

Have fun and ride safe, it's crazy on the Thai roads.

[biggles45]

Just one word of caution, most travel insurance policies either have an exclusion on motorbikes, limit you to 125cc, insist on a licence in your own country or a licence in your holiday country.

If you do get travel insurance for your trips check the Exclusions carefully. Good riding and take care

[Strangebrew]

Proper bike ? I ride a Harley Rule one loud pipes save lives. Besides on a long ride it is nice to putt, Can't ride a rice burner or scooter death traps. Besides once you get a lady on back she is warmed up when you get to where your going.

[smotherb]

Got my first real bike at 13, a 500cc BSA in a Triumph frame--still ride daily over 50 years later and it's a 1584cc Harley now. Proper training, but more importantly experience, in riding is the best way to be safe. Problem is, how to get the experience without the risk. Thailand is very dangerous, the Thais have little no sense of right-of-way. Just be careful, stay totally aware, slow it down if anyone/anything is near the roadway--pedestrians, cars, trucks, other bikes, even animals. Don't drink and ride, especially if you are one of the many who cannot handle alcohol.

[BSJ]

Down the track when you have more experience head out to the highway and when it's quite try and put some of the techniques into practise. Emergency lane change. Stopping from high speed whilst controlling the brakes to avoid skidding. Maintaining a correct line whilst cornering.

[wantan]

^
Please dont do this on a highway in Thailand, no offence to BSJ but imo much to dangerous. Vehicles can come from everywhere at anytime at any speed

Don't drink and ride. I agree with smotherb, a very important rule in Thailand. Maybe the most important. Have fun and stay safe

[Shurup]

^

Please dont do this on a highway in Thailand, no offence to BSJ but imo much to dangerous. Vehicles can come from everywhere at anytime at any speed

I feel safer riding highways rather than cities. Sure there are some highways that are busier than some cities, but in general is the other way around.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[Guitar God]

I've been riding big bikes in the US and Europe since the 70's, I rode every day unless it was snowy, icy, below 6C, pouring rain or I had something large to carry. Sometimes I even rode on those days. I wrote in Feb in Amsterdam when it got up to 10 one day but ended up riding back in the snow. I've rode in the Netherlands with the rain, Paris and London traffic the autobahn in Germany, Greek islands, Canary islands, Hawaii, Houston, California, Chicago and the midwest. 1000cc and up, never cared for scooters.

I bought a big bike here in Jan and just downgraded to a scooter. The big bike was like riding an oven, it was too wide to fit through spaces scooters could go when splitting lanes and in Bangkok since I couldn't use the expressways or a lot of elevated roads, I rarely went over 80 kph anyway. The definition of motorcycle here is what I'd call a "scooter" so motorcycle parking was too small, too tight and it was a huge hassle to park anywhere. In other cities you get a tiny bit of respect on a bigger bike, here I've been sideswiped once on the highway by a car passing me going 80-90 and had my footboard ran into by some dildo who was stopped in traffic and turned right into me trying to change lanes where there was no space to do so. I hope he did more damage to his front fender than he did to my footboard because I heard sheetmetal bending and scraping. I didn't bother to stick around, I got the hell away from that yaba-smoking idiot before he rolled over me.

After I move up country I'll probably get a Road King or Heritage Softail Classic where I can drive without baking in the sun sitting in traffic jams and have fewer idiots in cars to ruin my day.

Up in Chiang Mai area it's probably different but riding a big bike in Bangkok is not my cup of meat.

[HughJass]

are free advertisements allowed on Thai Visa?

[Guitar God]

Hugh- I watched your brother Mel in MN when he hosted Mel's Matinee Movies. Mel was the TV star but your name came up often too... ;-)

[AllanB]

My first big bike (compared to our step through) here was a TA200 Phantom, I taught myself and I had a lot of trouble with gear changes. Had no idea what gear I was in, with 6 of the damn things, which was a pain since the engine had no torque and would stall almost every time I got it wrong. Always in the traffic with the resulting embarrassment of a crowd watching, so it would be such a relief to get back on the Wave.

I remember having trouble the first time I did a hill start, again in front of a crowd, going over a raised railway line....I though "<deleted> do I do?", then later someone explained it to me and after a couple of goes, sorted it, or more often that not avoided it.

The Phantom was okay on a run, from a riding point of view, but it almost put me off big bikes it was such an awkward underpowered bitch, until I bought the 30 year old NV400. This was a doddle to ride in comparison, lots of torque and such a sweet gearbox (4 speed with O/D), plus it handles a lot better, but then doesn't everything?

Perhaps my Phantom was a bad example, but aside from it's low CofG, I find nothing to recommend it as a learner bike. 3 months into riding the Phantom, I rode a CBR250 up the road and that was much much easier too.

I envy you being in CM with lots of great rides on your doorstep, so enjoy your new bike whatever you choose.

[Lokie]

Well done, way to go...

Scooters are great for around town but there is nothing like a real bike on a decent run/road

(Buy a decent helmet and gloves also as a minimum)

Not gonna go into full protective biker clothing as here in LOS with the heat etc there are all sorts of arguments/schools of thought, at end of day skin & bones do not compete with tarmac, down to personal choice and risk?

I would also buy your helmet/equipment back home and bring to LOS (better quality & range)

Be safe and above all enjoy...

[thewug]

I have the 250 cbr. It's a great bike to ride. It's small enough to get through traffic and fast enough to enjoy some speed without going past my limits. I personally recommend the 250 cbr or ninja. But most of all just be on your guard and try to expect the unexpected when driving a big around Thailand.

[Wong!]

Commuting to work in Chiang Mai is so much better on a bike than in the car. My CB500 is quick enough to get ahead of traffic and agile enough to past slow or stationary cars on the Super Highway. Not so much a fan of getting rained on though.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

[jchfriis]

Welcome to the world of biking. I went the opposite way from you. In the old country I had a 1000 cc BMW and I loved taking long tours though out Europe on that one. Here I downgraded to a 650 cc Kawasaki and a 250 Ninja. Finally sold the 650 as I saw no need for it on thai roads. These days I'm still having some fun on the 250, but my main transports is a PCX 150. I guess I'm getting old.

Whatever your mode of transportation is, have fun and remember: Everybody else in the traffic are Blind, Deaf, probably Drunk, and out to Kill you!

Take care.

[Rorri]

NeverSure, on 04 May 2014 - 08:36, said:

"He stopped occasionally to give me advise and constructive criticism when needed, also explaining to me how to counter steer and when I was to tense on the bike."

So many older guys and untrained people don't know about countersteering. I'm so glad he showed you. I can never pass up an opportunity to discuss it because it can absolutely save your life.

It is good for dodging objects, but is also used with light pressure at highway speeds for every corner.

Your an arrogant fool. Why say "So many older guys and untrained people don't know about counter steering?" For some strange arrogant reason to seem to think older guys know less than young guys, here's some news fool, counter steering is nothing new, it's been around since there were two wheeled vehicles, yes that includes bicycles and a kids scooter. You simply cannot ride a bike unless you do. Obviously "young" guys don't know this, guess us oldies have failed to teach younger guys, or is it that younger guys are so arrogant that they cannot learn.

[Rorri]

jchfriis, on 07 May 2014 - 01:16, said:

Welcome to the world of biking. I went the opposite way from you. In the old country I had a 1000 cc BMW and I loved taking long tours though out Europe on that one. Here I downgraded to a 650 cc Kawasaki and a 250 Ninja. Finally sold the 650 as I saw no need for it on thai roads. These days I'm still having some fun on the 250, but my main transports is a PCX 150. I guess I'm getting old.

Whatever your mode of transportation is, have fun and remember: Everybody else in the traffic are Blind, Deaf, probably Drunk, and out to Kill you!

Take care.

I went the same way.. back in Oz had Harley Roadking, but here the PCX is more suited to city riding and before anyone says what about touring, lol. the roads are bad enough in a car.

[Guitar God]

Some parts of the country are nice for cruising on a big bike, Chiang Mai area comes to mind. Bangkok sucks. A scooter, car, taxi or public transport is more enjoyable. I love riding my bike but I hate driving in Bangkok.

[guzzi850m2]

Some parts of the country are nice for cruising on a big bike, Chiang Mai area comes to mind. Bangkok sucks. A scooter, car, taxi or public transport is more enjoyable. I love riding my bike but I hate driving in Bangkok.

It's the same in Pattaya, my PCX is near perfect for going around town on it, big bike no thanks man.

That's one of the reasons I hold back on buying a big bike again, the urge is there for sure but it will just be like an very expensive toy for a blast now and again.

I had a HD road king before my son was born and my wife and I went on sometimes 4 days trip on it. With a kid now it's in the pick-up truck when we go somewhere.

[Beardog]

Congads on moving up in bike size. Way more fun! I started on a 48 harley when I was 15 years old & sold that & got a 750 Honda way quicker & way more comfortable.

I would get a good used 250 or 300 knowing that you will outgrow that size(if you are like most people) And you will probably make it to the 500-650 cc league. I have a 650 ER6n in Thailand & it is identicle to the Yamaha nuovo I sold in width & handlebar width. Even the frame size is somewhat similar so it is nimble weaving in & out of Pattaya traffic. If you get a good cheaper 250-300 cc bike it will be easy to sell if you decide on an upgrade. Scooters are alright for what they are(even though I was & am bored as all shit on scooters) they do serve a purpose. I had a 1800 & a 6 cyl Goldwing in the states. Once you are used to a bike . A bike is a bike is a bike doesn't matter how huge it is Just getting used to the weight is the only thing I have to adjust to. But nothing heavier than a Harley. Reminds me of a moving boat anchor. I would rather have something that never breaks down & is comfortable & cheap to purchace in Thailand. HD not cheap at all.

So consider a 250-300 a break in bike. In the U.S. the 600-650cc's are the starter bikes & just about everyone has a liter bike. Here a 650 size is perfect for Thailand unless you are going to tour a lot.

Have fun Drive safe & Enjoy!

[AllanB]

Congads on moving up in bike size. Way more fun! I started on a 48 harley when I was 15 years old & sold that & got a 750 Honda way quicker & way more comfortable.

I would get a good used 250 or 300 knowing that you will outgrow that size(if you are like most people) And you will probably make it to the 500-650 cc league. I have a 650 ER6n in Thailand & it is identicle to the Yamaha nuovo I sold in width & handlebar width. Even the frame size is somewhat similar so it is nimble weaving in & out of Pattaya traffic. If you get a good cheaper 250-300 cc bike it will be easy to sell if you decide on an upgrade. Scooters are alright for what they are(even though I was & am bored as all shit on scooters) they do serve a purpose. I had a 1800 & a 6 cyl Goldwing in the states. Once you are used to a bike . A bike is a bike is a bike doesn't matter how huge it is Just getting used to the weight is the only thing I have to adjust to. But nothing heavier than a Harley. Reminds me of a moving boat anchor. I would rather have something that never breaks down & is comfortable & cheap to purchace in Thailand. HD not cheap at all.

So consider a 250-300 a break in bike. In the U.S. the 600-650cc's are the starter bikes & just about everyone has a liter bike. Here a 650 size is perfect for Thailand unless you are going to tour a lot.

Have fun Drive safe & Enjoy!

I think you have it dead right mate, my NV400 is a great ride, but just a tinesy bit under-powered (or more specifically under-torqued) for me and the missus, another 30% would be ideal. But, yes start with a S/H CBR250 there are a few about mostly under 100k baht a bargain for what you get.