PM Yingluck removed from office

[mikemac]

I just thought about something funny. You know how these red flag wavers crap on about Yingluck and the PTP being democratically elected ? Well guess what, she and nine of her underlings have just been booted out by the very same democratic system.

[mikemac]

Som nam na..

What does that mean? I read and write Thai for over 30 years. I don't recognize this expression I see it frequently here in TV (and only here). Could you (or someone else) reply in Thai script, please?

Informal (read: everyday, realistic Thai speak by people that don't live under a bridge) for serves you right!

In context, it would serve Yingluck right that she lost face by being ousted for dancing with the devil.

Lawrence should get out more !

[fab4]

Okay. I'll bite. Its not about Thaksin.

It is about a feudal elite and military terrified of losing power, and the more they repress the masses the more afraid they become of the possibility of retribution.

The interesting part is that most of the feudal elite is upcountry. Still keeping 'their' people bound in an age old patronage system.

And you know that from your condo in Bangkok? A patronising notion and a bit out of date, rubl, they're not all wai-ing to the master and asking which way to vote these days.

An extract from THAILAND’S POLITICAL PEASANTS Power In The Modern Rural Economy By Andrew Walker

But the new rural politics has its own unique character. Walker suggests that a good way to understand this character is to appreciate how villagers deal with the gods and spirits that determine good and bad fortune in everything from health to harvest. These spirits must be seduced by offerings and flattered with rituals so that their considerable powers are tamed and directed to benign ends.

Bureaucrats, politicians and big agribusiness groups are much the same. They have powers that can either bring good or do harm. They must be seduced by offerings and flattered with rituals too. This means courting the locally powerful, but also becoming involved in electoral politics in the locality, province and nation.

"The central element in the political strategy of this middle-income peasantry is to weave the power and resources of the state into the economic and social fabric of village society."

Walker borrows the term "political society" to describe the result. In contrast to "civil society" which is full of rules and institutions, political society is all about connections, manipulation, bargaining, deals, expediency - a kind of free-for-all, more like all-in wrestling than rule-bound Olympic boxing.

Of course, Walker is not so interested in describing "his" village as explaining the upsurge of mass politics that has marked the past decade. He suggests that Thaksin Shinawatra succeeded because he grasped the nature of this new political society, and responded to its demands for patronage and its requirements of political style. Walker traces how his villagers evaluated Thaksin and his local party candidates through the elections of the 2000s, scoring them for their connections to the locality, administrative ability, and balance between corruption and competence - in short, their capacity to deliver.

In other words we'll vote for you if you deliver what we want. This will be put to the test in the next election, if the Judicial Coup allows such a thing. The genies out of the bottle rubl, that's why the old order are trying their hardest to put the stopper back in - it's too late, and by that I don't mean that a "peoples revolution" in Lumpini is going to supply the answer, they're part of the problem if they only but knew it.

Edited May 8, 2014 by fab4

[rubl]

My dear fabs, you forgot to provide a link for the quote. Also as it is I fail to see the relevance

Somehow the part you quote seems to suggest 'the urban middle class' orders coups and court cases which seems strange with other continuing to talk about the Amart doing such.

There is also a suggestion that Pheu Thai 'used' the connections to 'localities' as in the age old families which hold the local population in patronage. Now that's undemocratic to the point where one might even become a real red-shirt to fight those 'localities'.

Anyway, clearly reforms as necessary, even this Walker figure seems to suggest that

Edited May 8, 2014 by astral
Removal of long quote - Please use Reply button a the bottom

[In Town]

My dear fabs, you forgot to provide a link for the quote. Also as it is I fail to see the relevance

Somehow the part you quote seems to suggest 'the urban middle class' orders coups and court cases which seems strange with other continuing to talk about the Amart doing such.

There is also a suggestion that Pheu Thai 'used' the connections to 'localities' as in the age old families which hold the local population in patronage. Now that's undemocratic to the point where one might even become a real red-shirt to fight those 'localities'.

Anyway, clearly reforms as necessary, even this Walker figure seems to suggest that

Interestingly, the feudal system is breaking down in the north, but still strong in the south (thats where Suthep gets his troops).

[mikemac]

Gee rubl, sounds like your little mate has a bad case of sour grapes. And he did not post a link, very unlike him. He must have spent hours trawling the internet looking for that amazing quote by Andrew Walker , but why I will never know. It has nothing to do with the OP, which is about

Yingluck being removed from office. Typically off topic .......................................

[winstonc]

My dear fabs, you forgot to provide a link for the quote. Also as it is I fail to see the relevance

Somehow the part you quote seems to suggest 'the urban middle class' orders coups and court cases which seems strange with other continuing to talk about the Amart doing such.

There is also a suggestion that Pheu Thai 'used' the connections to 'localities' as in the age old families which hold the local population in patronage. Now that's undemocratic to the point where one might even become a real red-shirt to fight those 'localities'.

Anyway, clearly reforms as necessary, even this Walker figure seems to suggest that

Interestingly, the feudal system is breaking down in the north, but still strong in the south (thats where Suthep gets his troops).

hes got plenty of troops in ubon you know where that is dont you ...north east thailand if your not familiar with the country..

[mikemac]

Just read some of the Bangkok Post review of the book by Andrew Walker - "THAILAND’S POLITICAL PEASANTS".

I got as far as - ....................."State funds flow into the village as crop subsidies"..................... and then gave up. Have had a gutfull of red flavored propaganda.

Not a bit surprised red trolls are quoting from it.

Edited May 8, 2014 by mikemac

[rubl]

My dear fabs, you forgot to provide a link for the quote. Also as it is I fail to see the relevance

Somehow the part you quote seems to suggest 'the urban middle class' orders coups and court cases which seems strange with other continuing to talk about the Amart doing such.

There is also a suggestion that Pheu Thai 'used' the connections to 'localities' as in the age old families which hold the local population in patronage. Now that's undemocratic to the point where one might even become a real red-shirt to fight those 'localities'.

Anyway, clearly reforms as necessary, even this Walker figure seems to suggest that

Interestingly, the feudal system is breaking down in the north, but still strong in the south (thats where Suthep gets his troops).

Still much in place in the Northeast it would seem and with their large numbers an ideal setting to 'gather' votes.

It would seem that in the South people tend to be much more self-relient. Not sure about the feudal system there. At least it doesn't seem to want and/or expect much from the central government.

[Piichai]

Other than bringing in the army to restore order exactly what murder did he commit you saw him pull the trigger and kill someone.

Dear Moe,

Abhisit and Suthep gave the orders to disperse the demonstration with "life fire zones" and authorised the use of deadly force by soldiers against civilians. In some countries that would make them culpable of murder, but apparently not in Thailand.

In most countries, peaceful protesters don't fire M79s at nearby mass transit stations.

So true. They don't fire machine guns from popcorn bags either.

I'm curious. Does the fact that some of Seh Deang's guys fired a few grenades to the roof of the BTS and one of them missed and killed someone justify, in your mind, the army posting snipers on rooftops and gunning down unarmed protestors? Just want to be clear on your thinking on this point.

Now you're just trolling.

The Red Shirts were very naughty. I lived in Bangkok during the Savage Months and remember well what happened. With my own eyes I have witnessed Red Shirt atrocities too numerous to list. If only it were as you wrote...

While I pity the women and children the Red Shirts hid behind, they were far from innocent as they participated in the nightly rants of the Red Shirt leaders to burn down Bangkok; they knew what was going to happen.

If I must fault Abhisit, it's that he let the Red Shirts attack the city for so long.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Piichai

[dukebowling]

Another Judicial coup by the Constitutional Court of Criminals. The worst source of corruption in Thailand.

[Mrgk]

I just thought about something funny. You know how these red flag wavers crap on about Yingluck and the PTP being democratically elected ? Well guess what, she and nine of her underlings have just been booted out by the very same democratic system.

The "Independent agencies" are, by design, the least democratic aspects of the Thai system. Exactly so that they can "step in"* when the people choose the "wrong" representatives and policies.

* A.k.a. "cheat".

[citizen33]

I've just been looking at some of the international comment. Here are some links.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/blog/2014/05/07/royalists-oust-shinawatra-in-judicial-coup/

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579547340574302518

http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2014/05/08/Thai-PM-removed-by-Judicial-Coup-What-Now.aspx?COLLCC=1761381121&

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/07/thailand-s-prime-minister-toppled-by-the-iron-triangle.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2014/05/thai-pm-found-guilty-abuse-power-20145763848681647.html

http://politicalprisonersofthailand.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/updated-the-judicial-coup-gathers-pace/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/24430634-d5b7-11e3-a017-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ee9a2a02-d5e9-11e3-a017-00144feabdc0.html#axzz317jpc4Au

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-prime-minister-yingluck-shinawatra-ordered-to-step-down-after-abusing-power-9329564.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/world/asia/court-orders-thai-leader-removed-from-office.html

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-thailand-prime-minister-yingluck-shinawatra-forced-out-20140507-story.html

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/05/thailand-s-politics

(Also Economist article from May 6 that may not be appropriate for TVF).

[casualbiker]

I've just been looking at some of the international comment. Here are some links.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/blog/2014/05/07/royalists-oust-shinawatra-in-judicial-coup/

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579547340574302518

http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2014/05/08/Thai-PM-removed-by-Judicial-Coup-What-Now.aspx?COLLCC=1761381121&

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/07/thailand-s-prime-minister-toppled-by-the-iron-triangle.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2014/05/thai-pm-found-guilty-abuse-power-20145763848681647.html

http://politicalprisonersofthailand.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/updated-the-judicial-coup-gathers-pace/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/24430634-d5b7-11e3-a017-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ee9a2a02-d5e9-11e3-a017-00144feabdc0.html#axzz317jpc4Au

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-prime-minister-yingluck-shinawatra-ordered-to-step-down-after-abusing-power-9329564.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/world/asia/court-orders-thai-leader-removed-from-office.html

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-thailand-prime-minister-yingluck-shinawatra-forced-out-20140507-story.html

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/05/thailand-s-politics

(Also Economist article from May 6 that may not be appropriate for TVF).

And?

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[Torkmada]

Okay so your opinion counts

and that of others and Thais do not

Under TVF rules you are allowed your opinion

votes or strokes?

of course Thais opinion counts - in an ELECTION which the Dems will lose AGAIN until they understand that supporting the old feudal system of elite power will not win them votes just strokes from their puppet masters

The PTP won the last election and there was no need for another one unless one considers the unconstitutional activities of Thaksin for which there cannot be any electoral legitimacy. And there's the rub. Remove Thaksin from the equation and normality returns. Now maybe you can tell us its not about Thaksin.

Remove Thaksin from the equation and normality returns.

????

What ill informed garbage!

Thaksin has been physically removed from Thai politics since 2006 yet his followers remain the majority.

You may be able to get rid of the man but the ideas, the future and the type of Thai society that he represents are here to stay.

The PTP have won the last 6 elections and will win the next 6 even if Thaksin no longer walks this earth.

The sooner all the antiquated fascists Yellows accept this reality the better of all of Thailand will be.

[citizen33]

I've just been looking at some of the international comment. Here are some links.

And?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And.. it will be easy for anybody interested to click on the links and save time searching.

I'd say though that some inside the laager need to realise how things look from outside, One of the TVF illuminati said on a thread today that there was no international reaction.

[AleG]

Not a bit surprised red trolls are quoting from it.

Oh, I can assure you that we are not "trolls"- Rather, we just genuinely hate you and your ilk, and want you to pay for what you have done. Hopefully, the day of reckoning is drawing nearer by the hour.

Tick.

Tock.

What are you threatening mikemac with?

[hawker9000]

Not a bit surprised red trolls are quoting from it.

Oh, I can assure you that we are not "trolls"- Rather, we just genuinely hate you and your ilk, and want you to pay for what you have done. Hopefully, the day of reckoning is drawing nearer by the hour.

Tick.

Tock.

Oooooooooooo. Tall talk from the short-sighted. Don't you just love keyboard thuggishness? So erudite. 'Could've been written by Thaksin's own Minister of Threats. If the violence starts, we'll certainly know who started it.

Thailand needs less, not more, of this.

Edited May 8, 2014 by hawker9000

[casualbiker]

Okay so your opinion counts

and that of others and Thais do not

Under TVF rules you are allowed your opinion

votes or strokes?

of course Thais opinion counts - in an ELECTION which the Dems will lose AGAIN until they understand that supporting the old feudal system of elite power will not win them votes just strokes from their puppet masters

The PTP won the last election and there was no need for another one unless one considers the unconstitutional activities of Thaksin for which there cannot be any electoral legitimacy. And there's the rub. Remove Thaksin from the equation and normality returns. Now maybe you can tell us its not about Thaksin.

Remove Thaksin from the equation and normality returns.

????

What ill informed garbage!

Thaksin has been physically removed from Thai politics since 2006 yet his followers remain the majority.

You may be able to get rid of the man but the ideas, the future and the type of Thai society that he represents are here to stay.

The PTP have won the last 6 elections and will win the next 6 even if Thaksin no longer walks this earth.

The sooner all the antiquated fascists Yellows accept this reality the better of all of Thailand will be.

Thaksin removed from Thai politics ... wow what time dimension is that .. can we get tickets to go? Because it surely isn't this time dimension in 2014.

PTP IS Thaksin. It's his political party ..!

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[djjamie]

Well nobody seemed too bothered about things here in Khon Buri market no doom and gloom seen, don't be too surprised if most Thais outside of Bangkok are not really bothered about today's decisions and Yingluck got what she deserved.

The most animated people I've seen are the TV. Farangs not the Thais themselves they go about their daily business tomorrow, just like they did yesterday And today, the Thai voice will come when the elections are held.

Then we farangs will sit back and see who's standing and who's fallen through the ballot box.

It was a victory for the courts and the law today and that's a positive step , it's not a victory for the PDRC by any means, nothing has changed the PTP lost this particular battle, but they can still win in the long run if they start smart thinking.

At least she's not going to be removed from power over the rice fiasco and today's ruling hasn't helped the rice farmers one single bit.

How do you know that no one is really bothered about todays decision? Are you privvy to the information or are you taking someone else's words as face value?

Have you got the facts at hand to back up your claims or are you just talking speculation and guessing?

Please back it with evidence from Khon Buri that no one is bothered?

It's fine if you're not able to provide this evidence, it's as I suspect it's just another opinion here on TVF that is one of many that mean diddly squat.

This is a reasonable request of evidence since you have asked the same of me here.

[Mrgk]

Not a bit surprised red trolls are quoting from it.

Oh, I can assure you that we are not "trolls"- Rather, we just genuinely hate you and your ilk, and want you to pay for what you have done. Hopefully, the day of reckoning is drawing nearer by the hour.

Tick.

Tock.

What are you threatening mikemac with?

I am not in a position to threaten anyone (for obvious reasons) - I am just explaining my motives, I.e. a general intense dislike of Thai anti-democrats and a desire for them and their supporters to face actual* justice.

*I.e. not the brand handed out by the constitutional court.

[fab4]

Well nobody seemed too bothered about things here in Khon Buri market no doom and gloom seen, don't be too surprised if most Thais outside of Bangkok are not really bothered about today's decisions and Yingluck got what she deserved.

The most animated people I've seen are the TV. Farangs not the Thais themselves they go about their daily business tomorrow, just like they did yesterday And today, the Thai voice will come when the elections are held.

Then we farangs will sit back and see who's standing and who's fallen through the ballot box.

It was a victory for the courts and the law today and that's a positive step , it's not a victory for the PDRC by any means, nothing has changed the PTP lost this particular battle, but they can still win in the long run if they start smart thinking.

At least she's not going to be removed from power over the rice fiasco and today's ruling hasn't helped the rice farmers one single bit.

How do you know that no one is really bothered about todays decision? Are you privvy to the information or are you taking someone else's words as face value?

Have you got the facts at hand to back up your claims or are you just talking speculation and guessing?

Please back it with evidence from Khon Buri that no one is bothered?

It's fine if you're not able to provide this evidence, it's as I suspect it's just another opinion here on TVF that is one of many that mean diddly squat.

This is a reasonable request of evidence since you have asked the same of me here.

I'd imagine that Fat Haggis's reasonable request for information about the retraining of guards was because you obviously obtained that information from The Nation (the only media to have that story). Nothing wrong with that, until you find the source of that information was sutheps nephew, and even then he only said they will be retrained not that they had been retrained, as you stated.

Why didn't you quote the source, it makes your claims more credible - well not actually in the "retraining" quote because the only link doesn't back up what you claimed, but you get the idea?

Edited May 8, 2014 by fab4

[Mrgk]

And?

...and everyone in the world (except for yellow expats, presumably) can figure out what is going on in Thailand. A sampling of the Wall Street Journal´s editorial should give us an idea about the general tenor of international commentary:

"Thailand's Aristocratic Dead-Enders"

---

"The royalists who can't win an election stage a judicial coup."

"Royalist forces struck another blow against Thai democracy Wednesday when the country's Constitutional Court staged a judicial coup and removed Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra from office."

...

"The justices' meddling rewards the bad behavior of the ironically named royalist Democrat Party. It boycotted the general election in February after several of its leaders led street protests aimed at overthrowing democracy and installing a ruling council made up of the country's elite."

...

"The Constitutional Court's decision this week is a last gasp of the old regime, discrediting itself as it fights to hold back the forces of democracy."

[casualbiker]

And?

...and everyone in the world (except for yellow expats, presumably) can figure out what is going on in Thailand. A sampling of the Wall Street Journal´s editorial should give us an idea about the general tenor of international commentary:

"Thailand's Aristocratic Dead-Enders"

---

"The royalists who can't win an election stage a judicial coup."

"Royalist forces struck another blow against Thai democracy Wednesday when the country's Constitutional Court staged a judicial coup and removed Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra from office."

...

"The justices' meddling rewards the bad behavior of the ironically named royalist Democrat Party. It boycotted the general election in February after several of its leaders led street protests aimed at overthrowing democracy and installing a ruling council made up of the country's elite."

...

"The Constitutional Court's decision this week is a last gasp of the old regime, discrediting itself as it fights to hold back the forces of democracy."

Any idea WHO wrote that article?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mrgk]

Any idea WHO wrote that article?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, it is an unsigned editiorial (as are most WSJ editorials).

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579547340574302518

[citizen33]

Surely it can't be the same guy who wrote all the other articles? And I thought you were saying the links were of no interest.....

Any idea WHO wrote that article?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 8, 2014 by citizen33

[Mrgk]

Surely it can't be the same guy who wrote all the other articles? And I thought you were saying the links were of no interest.....

I would imagine that the party line is going to be that they are all (to a man) actually written by Thaksin himself*.

* Nah, not really. They will go with Robert Amsterdam...

[gangrel]

Thaksin has been physically removed from Thai politics since 2006

Someone should inform Thaksin of that.

[djjamie]

Well nobody seemed too bothered about things here in Khon Buri market no doom and gloom seen, don't be too surprised if most Thais outside of Bangkok are not really bothered about today's decisions and Yingluck got what she deserved.

The most animated people I've seen are the TV. Farangs not the Thais themselves they go about their daily business tomorrow, just like they did yesterday And today, the Thai voice will come when the elections are held.

Then we farangs will sit back and see who's standing and who's fallen through the ballot box.

It was a victory for the courts and the law today and that's a positive step , it's not a victory for the PDRC by any means, nothing has changed the PTP lost this particular battle, but they can still win in the long run if they start smart thinking.

At least she's not going to be removed from power over the rice fiasco and today's ruling hasn't helped the rice farmers one single bit.

How do you know that no one is really bothered about todays decision? Are you privvy to the information or are you taking someone else's words as face value?

Have you got the facts at hand to back up your claims or are you just talking speculation and guessing?

Please back it with evidence from Khon Buri that no one is bothered?

It's fine if you're not able to provide this evidence, it's as I suspect it's just another opinion here on TVF that is one of many that mean diddly squat.

This is a reasonable request of evidence since you have asked the same of me here.

I'd imagine that Fat Haggis's reasonable request for information about the retraining of guards was because you obviously obtained that information from The Nation (the only media to have that story). Nothing wrong with that, until you find the source of that information was sutheps nephew, and even then he only said they will be retrained not that they had been retrained, as you stated.

Why didn't you quote the source, it makes your claims more credible - well not actually in the "retraining" quote because the only link doesn't back up what you claimed, but you get the idea?

OK. Since I am unable to gather evidence that only Suthep and the PDRC are privileged to access I will rephrase the statement.

Fact 1 - PDRC Guard kills PDRC guard. (Though I can only source that from 2 links so maybe thats not true as well?)

Fact 2 - Maybe there was or was not retraining of PDRC Guards. (Since I can only access one link on this occasion)

Fact 3 - Post "training or no training" of PDRC guards there have been no lethal force used and in fact all force has been non lethal with the PDRC guards either shooting the potential lethal force in the foot and then taking the victim to the hospital or leaving the lethal potential threat uninjured and handing him over to the police. (I only have 3 links for this so maybe it is not true either?)

So the training OR THE LACK OF TRAINING has really paid off and shows the guards are more disciplined.

Is that better Fab4?

[casualbiker]

Surely it can't be the same guy who wrote all the other articles? And I thought you were saying the links were of no interest.....

I would imagine that the party line is going to be that they are all (to a man) actually written by Thaksin himself*.

* Nah, not really. They will go with Robert Amsterdam...

Well if it's all unsigned work but following the RM blueprint. What are people supposed to make of it? It is what he is paid for after all!

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Edited May 8, 2014 by casualbiker