NACC indicts Yingluck, asks Senate to impeach her as PM

[pookiki]

Refreshing to know that you don't fear elections. Your post referred to refusing to allow parties to include populist policies in their party platforms. This is clearly a restriction on freedom of speech and freedom of association. However you feel about the alleged 'populist' policies of this government is your business. Hopefully, the Thai people will have the final say at the ballot box. Any you don't have to increase the font size of your posts to make a point. By the way, an interesting analogy to what you consider 'populist' was recently considered by the US Supreme Court when it ruled on Obamacare. In deciding that the program was constitutional, the Courts Chief Justice said that it was not in the courts realm to protect the people against what some considered to be political 'mistakes' or mismanagement. Let the Thai people decide if they think the actions of the government are as unethical and immoral as you believe they are.

serious question...why do you fear reform?

I don't fear reform as long as it is done in a democratic framework. Both the plans put forward by Suthep and Abhisit both deal with having unelected 'leader(s)' being in charge of reform while a democratically elected government waits in the wings for the outcome of this ill-defined and nebulous program. Besides being undemocratic, these proposals do not conform to the current Constitution. If you read one of my recent posts, I proposed the convening of a Constitutional Convention by elected delegates once the next elections are finished. The task of the delegates at the Constitutional Convention would be to draft a new Constitution to be submitted to the people for approval/disapproval via referendum. This must be accomplished in a transparent and inclusive manner. However, for this to happen, the current Constitution would need to be amended. Would the Constitutional Court give such broad powers to Constitutional Convention delegates? I doubt it because one of the biggest issues in need of reform is the judiciary and all the overlapping administrative agencies that are basically useless and are political puppets. Without a democratic way to implement reform - with elections being the first step - the impasse will continue, violence will escalate and the economy will deteriorate. And please don't give me the usual whine that elections cannot be free and fair. That's just BS and an excuse not to attempt true democratic reform.

[retell]

So where has the billions gone ,? Should be possible to trace it , jail the corrupt ones , take all their money , houses etc. !

And replace with people that are not corrupt

[scorecard]

This decision is absolutely idiotic and will ultimately cause enormous harm to the country.

The coup appointed NACC and the majority military puppets in the senate playing nothing but political games for the people who put them there.

This idiotic decision just fuels the fire and divides the country further. Another case of the people behind all this of saying you can only be corrupt if you are on our side!

If the ex PM is impeached and criminal charges brought against her every single Thaj politician, government contractors, civil servants have to be prosecuted.

There is no one in this country in any position of power who can cast the first stone - the entire country lives of nepotism, connections and corruption!

The people behind this have robbed the country for decades have stolen 100's of billions from the Thai people and now go on raiding pretending they have the countries best interest at heart.

If this stupid military coup appointed NACC wants to clean up the country then they are the first ones who should be replaced!

Thailand will soon end up in a civil war where no one is safe anymore just because of a few old stubborn men who have no vision for the country - only a selfish agenda destroying the country in the process!

You say: ..... If the ex PM is impeached and criminal charges brought against her every single Thaj politician, government contractors, civil servants have to be prosecuted.

There is no one in this country in any position of power who can cast the first stone - the entire country lives of nepotism, connections and corruption!

The people behind this have robbed the country for decades have stolen 100's of billions from the Thai people and now go on raiding pretending they have the countries best interest at heart. .....

So there are 2 options:

1. Indict yingluck and then indict all concerned.

2. Do nothing and the corruption an nepotism continues and in fact gets worse and worse.

Option 1 is the only way.

Reform now and before elections!

[bofhman]

Yep ... Wait for it ... she will be out of country shortly ... plan B.

[louse1953]

Thaksin already smashed up the house with the 3-iron yesterday...

...he's out in the driveway with a Driver right now, smashing up his cars.

Fore.

He couldnt give a flying f... about his sister or he wouldnt of set her up to fail and maybe prison.

[louse1953]

Their are claims that the NACC are corrupt, bias agency that are abusing their powers. Most people wouldn't disagree with that assessment.

Once the dust is settled, hopefully justice is served to the members of this group and they go behind bars.

If you have evidence, oh sour one,lets hear it.Claims from who?You dont count.

[louse1953]

This dirt will never see a day in jail. Sad but true.

Jail for what?

Thumping the Democrats in an election?

Yingluck is far and away the cleanest, least corrupt PM this nation has ever seen.

We all know you are full of it,but its all irrevalent,she is GONE,GONE,GONE.

[louse1953]

Kicking a man when he's down is unethical. Kicking a woman when she's down ???.........You sound very proud gentleman.

Be real Sub,this woman has blood on her hands and deserves more than she gets.What has being a woman got to do with it?

[louse1953]

Impeach her? She's gone already.

She is gone, but still needs to be punished. I'm guessing she will get a fine of around 600 billion(or however much it is found that her clan have stolen from the Thai people) and with any luck a lengthy prison sentence to deter any future politician from emptying the state's coffers to enrich their family in such an arrogant and blatant manner. Fair is fair.

name me ONE SENATE...ONE UPPER HOUSE THAT IS ...ANYWHERE in the world that is TRULY democratically elected ... (voting alone with paid money or party appointed nominees doesn't count). DEMOCRATICALLY I SAID..

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Australia I would posit.

Proportional representation by state, guaranteeing that no one state has more power than any other.

The election is on a different schedule than the legislature as well.

While Australia has its share of corruption, election corruption is quite rare.

The former PM Ms. Julia Gillard has been called before a Royal Commission where she will need to explain her signature appearing on documents (penned in her former job as a lawyer) directly linked to trade union corruption. In all likelihood she will be indicted and convicted, as will a large number of labour union officials.

You see, being a women in politics is not carte blanche to be incompetent and/or corrupt.

YL and soon JG will also find out.

But as I said, the upper house in Australia is about as democratically elected as it can be.

Yes there is corruption in Oz politics,you forgot to mention people from the Liberal party.

[blazes]

Let us not forget, brothers and sisters in ThaiVisa.com, that the highest court in the United Kingdom, namely the management committee of the English Premier League, has definitively proved that Khun Thaksin Shinawatra was innocent of any wrong doing.

They adjudged him to be a "fit and proper person" to be the owner of Manchester City Football Club.

Really, this should settle all argument.

[lineofentry]

So where has the billions gone ,? Should be possible to trace it , jail the corrupt ones , take all their money , houses etc. !

And replace with people that are not corrupt

So where did the billions come from? Start at the beginning.

[lineofentry]

Its sad when a country and the government of a country have fallen to this all time low and you smart asses on here with your derogatory comments who have really nothing to do with Thai government should stand back and take a good look at the antics of the governments in your own countries and as I always say if you don't like it in Thailand if the government is bothering you that much GO HOME.

Ah well, there you have it, foreigners shouldn't care, even if they have family.

[Robby nz]

Been away for a few days so just catching up on the news.

Seems to me that where this should all be leading is to a complete and transparent investigation into corruption in the pledging scheme.

The fact that the NACC has indicted Yingluck means they have found significant corruption that has led to that indictment.

That corruption now needs to be rigorously followed up focusing on things like :

Full forensic accounting including what has been paid to who.

How much rice is in storage and in what condition.

How much has been sold and for what price for each lot.

What announcements of sales have been false.

How much is still owed and to who (farmers, mills)

Who has benefited unfairly from the corruption, with the aim of recovering as much corruption money as possible and prosecuting those responsible.

It must be remembered that the money that has been lost (corrupted) from this rightfully belongs to the Thai people and as much as possible should be returned to them.

[ginjag]

Kicking a man when he's down is unethical. Kicking a woman when she's down ???.........You sound very proud gentleman.

Be real Sub,this woman has blood on her hands and deserves more than she gets.What has being a woman got to do with it?

Maybe his grand mother chained herself to the railings years ago.

[mikemac]

Ousted Yingluck To Be Re-Ousted By Senate, NACC Rules

By Khaosod English

BANGKOK — Ex-Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has been indicted for corruption charges in connection with the government's rice-pledging scheme, paving the way for the Senate to impeach her.

In an unanimous 7-0 vote on Thursday, the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) ruled that Ms. Yingluck was aware of massive corruption in the government’s controversial rice program, but refused to put an end to it.

The offence amounts to an abuse of bureaucratic power, as outlined in Thailand’s Criminal Codes, the NACC ruled..

The case will now head to the Senate, who will decide on whether or not to impeach Ms. Yingluck and ban her from political office for the next five years. An affirmative vote would effectively rule out the possibility of Ms. Yingluck running in the next general election, which is scheduled to take place on 20 July. It would also open Ms. Yingluck up to being sued in Criminal Court for the damages caused by the rice program’s corruption.

The controversial rice-pledging scheme was intended to bring in more revenue for Thailand’s rice farmers, but backfired dramatically, causing the government to lose billions of baht and fail to pay farmers on schedule.

It is unclear when the Senate will convene to proceed with the impeachment against Ms. Yingluck.

The NACC's ruling came only a day after Ms. Yingluck was found guilty by the Constitutional Court of unlawfully removing the National Security Council (NSC) director, and subsequently removed from her caretaker position.

Source: http://en.khaosod.co.th/detail.php?newsid=1399543179

-- Khaosod English 2014-05-08

The controversial rice-pledging scheme was intended to bring in more revenue for Thailand’s rice farmers, but backfired dramatically, causing the government to lose billions of baht and fail to pay farmers on schedule.

---------------------------------

Wonderful understatement to conflates 100's of billions of baht with mere billions. Technically a correct statement. I'm surprised they didn't go with "lose many baht" or "lose several baht". Perhaps it would have been too obvious.

PS. The rice program should have lost money, that's what a subsidy is, however it should have been an order of magnitude smaller. Losing billions or 10's of billions instead of 100's of billions.

Good post but I have to disagree with one point you made. I don't believe the money is "lost", I think they know exactly where it is.

[Dogmatix]

She will not be impeached in the Senate which has close to 50% Thaksinites because they need 60% to ding her. Also there is no telling when the Senate can convene again to begin the impeachment processes against her as well as the two speakers, the 30 odd Senators etc who are on the list. The last two impeachment processes (Somchai and Suthep) took two months.

The impeachment is just a side show or a necessary hor d'oevre for the main show. Now the NACC starts work in earnest preparing the criminal case against her for the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders for violation of Section 157 of the Penal Code (max penalty 10 years in prison). Fortunately the NACC has its own powers of prosecution in the likely event the Attorney-General declines to prosecute her. This case could take a couple of years but doesn't look good for YL's chances of remaining in Thailand as a free woman. Dubai may be a more realistic option.

[Baerboxer]

Here's where it all comes crashing down, thanks to the recent senate elections.

The coup clowns don't have the required 3/5 of the senate vote.

There will be no impeachment.

With the Senate being 49% appointed by the Ammart the numbers are very close with slightly more than 60% favouring the old-guard.

Thailand needs reform and the first reform should be an elected senate.

Will you be lobbying the very democratic Canada and Ireland to change to an elected senate too?

[DrDweeb]

So now we have the Prime Minister position that can be taken away if the incumbant fails to stop corruption. In future they will not have to prove that any corruption has taken place or name the people who have been corrupt.

Seems like there will never be a stable government in Thailand again.

I missed all the details of the announcement, but I was led to believe she was ousted not for her "failure to stop" corruption, but for being part of it, sacking someone inappropriately and appointing a relative instead - corruption in almost any civilised country, and probably in Cambodia as well.

Was I misinformed?

I believe you were missinformed.

Two cases.

1. The constitutional court has found her guilty of promoting 3 people. The head of the NSC was promoted to government advisor. (he was the one who refused to work with anybody who was "part of the Taksin regime")

The chief of police was promoted to head of the NSC and the brother inlaw of Thacksin's ex-wife was promoted to chief of police.

The constitution court ruled that she could not do this as one of the people promoted was associated with her family.

Case 2. The NACC could not prove that there had been any coruption in the rice scheme but decided that there was enough evidence to indict Yinluck for not stopping the claimed corruption. There has been no findings in this case yet. The senate will now hear the evidence and decide whether to impeach her. She cannot serve in any government until the case is heard by the senate. The NACC moved very quickly (for Thailand) in this case, now expect the Senate to move very slowly so as to leave Yinluck in limbo for as long as possible

I was not misinformed at all. I understand there were two cases. The first (your sequence) appears to be the cause of her dismissal and that of which I was aware.

The second, was what may be the start of something with rather more lasting effect ... but it was not the cause of her dismissal, which I think the previous poster was claiming.

[DrDweeb]

Iin answer to pookiki

I cannot vote in elections so why should I fear them?

Please tell me what your verdict is on the success of the populist policies such as the rice scam, tablets fiasco, 1st car buying joke and first house buying debacle!! Do you think that such immoral and unethical policies should have a place in politics purely to garner votes and not to benefit people?

Your comment is full of drama queen hyperbole. The programs were neither immoral nor unethical. All of the programs were similar to what we have seen in other countries such as the cash for clunkers in the USA, the green car incentive programs in Canada and the USA. The rice program is fraction of the size of the wide scale agricultural subsidy programs in India, Vietnam, USA and EU.

Unfortunately, the farmers in my family circle are yet to see any payment and I think they have begun to realise that they have collectively taken a stiff one straight up their anal orifices. Whether they are astute enough to recognise the cause of their rectal pain, and collectively do something about it when the opportunity is presented to them, is another matter.

Few agricultural policies in the world have failed on such a gargantuan scale, with such corruption. Agricultural subsidy programs are intended to redistribute wealth (lose money) by helping farmers to produce and generate wealth (and food incidentally). The net social effect being deemed worth the cost. I fail to see any positive social outcome for the rice pledging scheme, nor do I perceive any similarities between it and other agricultural subsidy schemes from other countries,

Oh Dear! The farmers in your family circle are telling you that they have had no rice payments for the whole 3 years of the scheme? I wonder whose orifice is being shafted. Do they have a few sick buffs for you as well?

A) Not at all, and I did not claim so. Only for the most recent crop.

They do not own a buffalo, they have tractors.

I can line up up a whole town full of people who have not been paid. A small town I admit, but that changes nothing.

If you believe that there are not farmers, still waiting to be paid 6 months after they delivered their rice, you are a naïve, uninformed ignoramus.

[DrDweeb]

Thaksin already smashed up the house with the 3-iron yesterday...

...he's out in the driveway with a Driver right now, smashing up his cars.

Fore.

He couldnt give a flying f... about his sister or he wouldnt of set her up to fail and maybe prison.

Well, the line of a famous ballad springs to mind ..

"My father always told me that money would set me free"

[DrDweeb]

name me ONE SENATE...ONE UPPER HOUSE THAT IS ...ANYWHERE in the world that is TRULY democratically elected ... (voting alone with paid money or party appointed nominees doesn't count). DEMOCRATICALLY I SAID..

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Australia I would posit.

Proportional representation by state, guaranteeing that no one state has more power than any other.

The election is on a different schedule than the legislature as well.

While Australia has its share of corruption, election corruption is quite rare.

The former PM Ms. Julia Gillard has been called before a Royal Commission where she will need to explain her signature appearing on documents (penned in her former job as a lawyer) directly linked to trade union corruption. In all likelihood she will be indicted and convicted, as will a large number of labour union officials.

You see, being a women in politics is not carte blanche to be incompetent and/or corrupt.

YL and soon JG will also find out.

But as I said, the upper house in Australia is about as democratically elected as it can be.

Yes there is corruption in Oz politics,you forgot to mention people from the Liberal party.

Perhaps there is corruption in the Liberal party (and I would not be in the least surprised), but you cannot escape the front page news facts, that the state and federal Labour parties are mired in slime, graft and corruption so deep and systemic at the moment, that it overshadows all other recent instances. There will be gaol terms. I do not need to name any more names.

You can fly your red flag here and in Oz, the facts are clear enough.

The post was about Senate elections and coincidentally, female PMs.

[Wombat6]

I like it...

But....but.... Suthep, Abhisit..........what about their crimes of genocide?

What about it ??? tell us all the information you have. I suppose you also know about Thaksins alleged genocide of about 3,000 people who were suspected drug dealers when he was in Power ??

[movsrus]

I'm still partying a bit from yesterdays decision by the CC... I hope I survive, pray for me M8s!

pace yourself lad...wonder if shes checking flight times yet..

No, she isn't flying commercial. Brother Taskin is sending over his private 737 to pick her up. Departure times are at her convenience. Perish the thought of having to fly Thai Air in first class. Too much contact with the small people.