'Final fight' to bring down govt

[rabas]

duplicate

Edited May 10, 2014 by rabas

[Morch]

Suthep's threats, ultimatums and pressuring of the media are despicable.

No "buts." Nothing to do with democracy.

He's not asking the media to give his ideas equal broadcasting time, but rather to be the only view aired.

He's not offering a compromise, but rather "My way or the highway".

Abhisit is one to cite bombings as example government cannot handle the situation.

Don't recall his government faring much better.

Interesting that once again CAPO isn't warning off those mysterious people with bad-intentions,

but rather calls on citizens not to attend. Almost like the weatherman - "it's gonna be rainy, folks, so better stay put".

Same with CAPO threats towards the media - did CAPO provide any protection or security from the PDRC?

Does CAPO expect the media to play the hero or what?

What a load of shameless useless people leading both sides.

First of all the CAPO has made exactly the same to the media.

Second what idea is it to give equal time to criminals and murder and compromise?

Oh, guess I got confused.

Seems I mistakenly under the impression that Suthep was fighting for democracy.

Was also under the misguided notion that Suthep and the PDRC were claiming to represent something better than CAPO.

Taking CAPO's conduct as an ethical and moral benchmark, what a great idea!

The idea is that in democracy there are plurality of views presented to the public, it's called freedom of speech.

Now, sure...CAPO and the government do not play nice, question is if the PDRC want to be a CAPO clone.

If they would have demanded equal chance to present their views it would make sense. What they are demanding is for

their view to be the only one aired from now on. Pot, kettle, etc.

Compromise is that thing civilized people do when they have disagreements.

It is indeed not easy to do, especially when both sides are unreasonable.

[rabas]

How to choose a unelected Prime Minister in Thailand?

[ IMAGE OF 2 DICE ] ......

But the faces on the dice are all different?

[catterwell]

The odd thing about this is trying to bring down the government. There is no leader to this government. My view is that the caretaker government has no authority to appoint an acting prime minister. The CC didn't name one so there is none.

I challenge anyone to show me where in the constitution this is legal. I will make it easy for you. The link is to an unofficial translation of the 2007 Constitution. For our purposes, show me the money!

It's not in the Constitution. It's in the Cabinet rules, supported by another law, the name of which I've forgotten.

In the case of the absence of the PM (sick or other incapacitated for example, then the most senior (they're ranked) available Deputy acts on the PM's behalf.

The powers of the acting PM are not the same as those of the PM.

If the PM is temporarily unavailable, fair enough.

The question arises: How can someone act for a PM when there is no PM?

In the case of the death of the PM, there can be no acting PM and all Cabinet Ministers consequently vacate office en masse. (the Constitution bit).

Catterwall, I respect you taking this on and accept that somewhere you read it's OK for a Deputy PM to succeed an incapacitated PM. However, we are discussing a Caretaker PM that has been incapacitated due to a Constitutional Court's decision against. The indictment on the following day, for our purposes, is academic. It is a different argument.

Go back to your source documents and see if it covers a Caretaker government. So far, the analysts I read aren't even touching this.

To a big extent, many are waiting on the CC's written opinion to see what it covers.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Yes, it applies equally to a caretaker government.

[rayw]

>> CAPO also threatened to take legal action against the executives of any TV stations that agreed to follow requests by the PDRC, such as broadcasting its statements or stopping broadcasts of CAPO announcements.<<

That truly sucks. How very biased and one sided is that? Of course they should allow open televised debates and an equal balance of statements from all sides as that helps educate the people into making the correct decisions when it comes to voting in a referendum or general election. What is important is, as with UK TV, that ALL sides get and equal air time given to them by the national TV broadcasters and only prosecution for the broadcaster executives IF they do not show that requisite balanced equal peak viewing air time for all sides in their programming. This is one area where the UK get it right so CAPO should look there for sensible guidance in this matter but please ONLY this matter as the UK (or USA) is NOT a good example of true democracy at all !!!

The UK has a crappy electoral system of First Past The Post so nobody should look to the UK for guidance as to true democracy as that UK (and I believe undemocratic USA too) system produces minority supported landslide Governments, so disgusting and undemocratic and why crap leaders like Thatcher got into Government with her party only polling 42% at best of the national vote and even Blair only got just over 50% once in his three election victories and yet Thatcher and Blair got landslide victories. Democracy ?? No bloody way and fair minded democratic person can such such a flawed system !!!!!!!!!!

Amazing. A thread about Thailand turned into a rant against the UK (and USA).

What's your suggestion then genius? Proportional representation that produces minority governments reliant on coalition partners and ends up delivering zilch after all the squabbling and division of the spoils? A one party dictatorship, a democracy like Zimbabwe or Cambodia?

By the way, the UK was the sick man of Europe, virtually ruined by the ineffective Heath and weak union dominated Callaghan governments. The latter was a good example of a government voted in but who then allowed someone else, namely the unions, to dictate policy. Thatcher was needed to counter act and clean all their <deleted> out. But, as often happens she started going too far. Blair, seemed the sensible, middle of the road choice to many. At least he wasn't dictated to by the unions - another example of undemocratic organizations being dominated by extremists with their own agendas.

Sorry I did not mean to hijack this thread.

Yes PR or at least AV is exactly what i mean, so the Government so formed will truly represent the peoples' democratic choice and self determination. If the people have a minority Government so elected, then it was their free choice and thus such a Government would rightly have to moderate its extreme majority unwanted policies to be able to survive. In other words democratically carry out what the majority of people have voted for and will accept. You either believe in true democracy or you don't.and IMHO neither the USA or UK have true democracy that serves the peoples' majority will.

The French electoral system is much better than the UK or USA IMHO, though still not true and honest PR. The French system does insist that each elected representative in the end receives more than 50% of the voters support before being able to take his elected seat in their parliament. Seems pretty fair and honest to me but just a little messy to have to have two separate ballots unlike PR which would achieve the same and even truer end result with one, yes in teh end easy to understand, single decisive ballot.

Do not be fooled and brainwashed by the left and right wing minority elected Governments most of us now unacceptably suffer with, as of course they will be denouncing PR as it is the best known true democratic system that even they use when it suits them. They are desperate to hang on to their safe system which ensures their continued minority elected control of Governments, swinging destructively from right to left. Thus the end of such a wrong system should at last give Governments of and for the true overall will of the people. This point is very important to understand if you care about true democracy, as in the end we should accept whoever ends up in power as long as it is under a true majority elected democratic system and then let those so elected serve their term as long as they stay within their mandate and constitutional conditions. They will then stand or fall at the next elections by what they have achieved or failed to achieve of course.

As to Callaghan and the unions controlling Government or Thatcher and the Corporations and fat cats doing the same (both their respective party's paymasters of course), then surely we the people get shafted so we all should sensibly want neither and do our utmost to change such a detestable undemocratic system. Come on think about it. Certainly I personally do not want to be run by corporate right wing selfish a'holes or union left wing fanatics, as come on now neither represent the true ordinary people and neither have been elected to Government by the people either. Corporate and Union lobbying is the big problem we have had and are still seriously suffering from.

I do not give a stuff about stupid flaming or personal insults as they are so juvenile, but I truly DO care about honesty and true democracy for the people.and certainly coming back on topic what we desperately need adopting here if at all possible it can be achieved. With some effort and peoples good will yes it can be achieved as it is hardly rocket science but sadly for Thailand I have doubts it will be that easy or even likely in the near future. Shame as I love and support this country where I have chosen to live my retirement years in.

Sorry for long convoluted post guys but felt it was needed in response.

Edited May 10, 2014 by rayw

[Morch]

Suthep is already in the Gvt office.

He has support from the Senators.

He seized the TV channels.

He pretends to act in the name of the King.

Army will prevent police to make any move.

If Suthep tells "I'm the Thai PM or at least the one who will give him the job", what can Thai citizens do?

Nothing, it will be the coup.

I indeed hope to be paranoid.

He did not seize the TV channels (yet).

He doesn't pretend to act in the name of the King. But he tells that he can choose a PM and give the document to the King. Which is a heavy thing in Thailand.

But well I prefer Suthep over Thaksin....Thaksin you can't get rid off anymore. Sutheps reform government will be only for 1 year. So even if it is bad it is just for a limited time.

And when you look at the last coup government. In its acting and listening to the people it was more democratic than all the elected governments. So what is the point of electing a government if it acts later like a dictator?

Did not seize the TV channels, but their doing his bid.

Does not pretend to act in the name of the king, but threats do to as he like if he doesn't get what he wants by Monday (and please don't blame him, to boot).

Suthep's reform government will be only for one year - err, Suthep's? Didn't he start by saying he wouldn't be a part of it? More to the point, what guarantee it will only last one year?

The point is not that the PTP government is bad, I think many agree on that. It's just that the alternative offered by Suthep right now does not give any confidence or impression of being an improvement.

[rayw]

>> CAPO also threatened to take legal action against the executives of any TV stations that agreed to follow requests by the PDRC, such as broadcasting its statements or stopping broadcasts of CAPO announcements.<<

That truly sucks. How very biased and one sided is that? Of course they should allow open televised debates and an equal balance of statements from all sides as that helps educate the people into making the correct decisions when it comes to voting in a referendum or general election. What is important is, as with UK TV, that ALL sides get and equal air time given to them by the national TV broadcasters and only prosecution for the broadcaster executives IF they do not show that requisite balanced equal peak viewing air time for all sides in their programming. This is one area where the UK get it right so CAPO should look there for sensible guidance in this matter but please ONLY this matter as the UK (or USA) is NOT a good example of true democracy at all !!!

The UK has a crappy electoral system of First Past The Post so nobody should look to the UK for guidance as to true democracy as that UK (and I believe undemocratic USA too) system produces minority supported landslide Governments, so disgusting and undemocratic and why crap leaders like Thatcher got into Government with her party only polling 42% at best of the national vote and even Blair only got just over 50% once in his three election victories and yet Thatcher and Blair got landslide victories. Democracy ?? No bloody way and fair minded democratic person can such such a flawed system !!!!!!!!!!

Nice cherry pick. Would you agree it sucks equally that Suthep has said a very similar thing to television stations?

BTW, this isn't a debate or an election.

Your suggestion that Thailand seek advice from a foreign country on how best to run Thailand, is amusing.

Yes agree with you there in that it is indeed sadly amusing, but also seriously the truth as we should all realise by now. I am sincerely talking in the true interests of Thailand and no personal agenda whatsoever. I want to see Thailand come back from its current political instability, corruption and stupidity, back into the realms of the true and fair democratic world where the people and ONLY the true majority of people make their choices fairly and honestly and we all should then respect that choice no matter which side get elected. That is what Thailand needs to learn as to what true democracy is and than to do something to implement and embrace it,.as nothing will change here for the better until it does.

[dracula]

This Suthep does he knows anything else to say except threats, lies and instigate to violence? I never hear him naming not even 1 reform he is talking about! And now he wants to control the media too. The irony of all this is that he consider himself a democrat!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[gabruce]

Suthep's threats, ultimatums and pressuring of the media are despicable.

No "buts." Nothing to do with democracy.

He's not asking the media to give his ideas equal broadcasting time, but rather to be the only view aired.

He's not offering a compromise, but rather "My way or the highway".

Abhisit is one to cite bombings as example government cannot handle the situation.

Don't recall his government faring much better.

Interesting that once again CAPO isn't warning off those mysterious people with bad-intentions,

but rather calls on citizens not to attend. Almost like the weatherman - "it's gonna be rainy, folks, so better stay put".

Same with CAPO threats towards the media - did CAPO provide any protection or security from the PDRC?

Does CAPO expect the media to play the hero or what?

What a load of shameless useless people leading both sides.

First of all the CAPO has made exactly the same to the media.

Second what idea is it to give equal time to criminals and murder and compromise?

Agreed in that criminals and murderers don't need time on air. However we are talking about political groups, major political groups.

[55Jay]

>> CAPO also threatened to take legal action against the executives of any TV stations that agreed to follow requests by the PDRC, such as broadcasting its statements or stopping broadcasts of CAPO announcements.<<

That truly sucks. How very biased and one sided is that? Of course they should allow open televised debates and an equal balance of statements from all sides as that helps educate the people into making the correct decisions when it comes to voting in a referendum or general election. What is important is, as with UK TV, that ALL sides get and equal air time given to them by the national TV broadcasters and only prosecution for the broadcaster executives IF they do not show that requisite balanced equal peak viewing air time for all sides in their programming. This is one area where the UK get it right so CAPO should look there for sensible guidance in this matter but please ONLY this matter as the UK (or USA) is NOT a good example of true democracy at all !!!

The UK has a crappy electoral system of First Past The Post so nobody should look to the UK for guidance as to true democracy as that UK (and I believe undemocratic USA too) system produces minority supported landslide Governments, so disgusting and undemocratic and why crap leaders like Thatcher got into Government with her party only polling 42% at best of the national vote and even Blair only got just over 50% once in his three election victories and yet Thatcher and Blair got landslide victories. Democracy ?? No bloody way and fair minded democratic person can such such a flawed system !!!!!!!!!!

Nice cherry pick. Would you agree it sucks equally that Suthep has said a very similar thing to television stations?

BTW, this isn't a debate or an election.

Your suggestion that Thailand seek advice from a foreign country on how best to run Thailand, is amusing.

Yes agree with you there in that it is indeed sadly amusing, but also seriously the truth as we should all realise by now. I am sincerely talking in the true interests of Thailand and no personal agenda whatsoever. I want to see Thailand come back from its current political instability, corruption and stupidity, back into the realms of the true and fair democratic world where the people and ONLY the true majority of people make their choices fairly and honestly and we all should then respect that choice no matter which side get elected. That is what Thailand needs to learn as to what true democracy is and than to do something to implement and embrace it,.as nothing will change here for the better until it does.

I think we would all like to see that however your idealistic view, while good, overlooks the fact this is a polarized country and that the current political theater has nothing to do with the actual power base in this country. It is plain to see who got the nod and who didn't.

Thailand will remain a hybrid system, requiring tune ups every few years when the peasants get too uppity, or the upper crust forgets to pretend they care about the peasants.

Thailand's real future awaits, just around the bend.

[3NUMBAS]

sutheps thugs run rampant again ,just no law and order ,what a crock of a country .will they trash the cables again and cause millions of bahts in damage .

[max72]

New 2014 edition of the World Guinness includes the highest number of FINAL BATTLES : Suthep Thaugsuban, Thailand between 2013-2014

[Goat Roper]

How will we know if and when this government is "Brought Down"? Just wondering what to look for.

[catterwell]

How will we know if and when this government is "Brought Down"? Just wondering what to look for.

When someone has been endorsed as PM by the King or His appointed Representative.

The government's not gone until there's a new one in place. It might be a completely dead duck, but it's there.

Enjoy your dinner, by the way..

[rayw]

>> CAPO also threatened to take legal action against the executives of any TV stations that agreed to follow requests by the PDRC, such as broadcasting its statements or stopping broadcasts of CAPO announcements.<<

That truly sucks. How very biased and one sided is that? Of course they should allow open televised debates and an equal balance of statements from all sides as that helps educate the people into making the correct decisions when it comes to voting in a referendum or general election. What is important is, as with UK TV, that ALL sides get and equal air time given to them by the national TV broadcasters and only prosecution for the broadcaster executives IF they do not show that requisite balanced equal peak viewing air time for all sides in their programming. This is one area where the UK get it right so CAPO should look there for sensible guidance in this matter but please ONLY this matter as the UK (or USA) is NOT a good example of true democracy at all !!!

The UK has a crappy electoral system of First Past The Post so nobody should look to the UK for guidance as to true democracy as that UK (and I believe undemocratic USA too) system produces minority supported landslide Governments, so disgusting and undemocratic and why crap leaders like Thatcher got into Government with her party only polling 42% at best of the national vote and even Blair only got just over 50% once in his three election victories and yet Thatcher and Blair got landslide victories. Democracy ?? No bloody way and fair minded democratic person can such such a flawed system !!!!!!!!!!

Nice cherry pick. Would you agree it sucks equally that Suthep has said a very similar thing to television stations?

BTW, this isn't a debate or an election.

Your suggestion that Thailand seek advice from a foreign country on how best to run Thailand, is amusing.

Yes agree with you there in that it is indeed sadly amusing, but also seriously the truth as we should all realise by now. I am sincerely talking in the true interests of Thailand and no personal agenda whatsoever. I want to see Thailand come back from its current political instability, corruption and stupidity, back into the realms of the true and fair democratic world where the people and ONLY the true majority of people make their choices fairly and honestly and we all should then respect that choice no matter which side get elected. That is what Thailand needs to learn as to what true democracy is and than to do something to implement and embrace it,.as nothing will change here for the better until it does.

I think we would all like to see that however your idealistic view, while good, overlooks the fact this is a polarized country and that the current political theater has nothing to do with the actual power base in this country. It is plain to see who got the nod and who didn't.

Thailand will remain a hybrid system, requiring tune ups every few years when the peasants get too uppity, or the upper crust forgets to pretend they care about the peasants.

Thailand's real future awaits, just around the bend.

Oh yes I never pretended that it was anything other than an idealistic view as of course we can never escape the current reality we live in.

However I defend idealism in that it at least shows us in which general direction we should be starting to head, as any movement in that direction however small has to be a good positive one by the very definition of ideal. Without idealism we have no idea which way to face or on which path to start to tread. So surely we desperately need more idealistic thoughts that most of us can and I believe will in the end agree on, or else there really is no chance for us at all. So that is why I support and salute idealism as long as we can also accept the reality we currently live in too, and use idealism as a useful and sound guide for a hopefully better future. .

Edited May 10, 2014 by rayw

[Mango Bob]

Sutehp spends 5 minutes of TV time to repeat what he said a number of times in the last two days. At least he is not camera shy. Is this the final speech for the final victory, or can we expect more final 5 minutes speeches for his final victory.

[55Jay]

How will we know if and when this government is "Brought Down"? Just wondering what to look for.

Besides troops and tanks on the streets, certain TVF members will announce opening bottles of wine.

I hope they used the boxed wine the last two celebrations, saving their best bottles for La Poussée Finale.

[harada]

Sutehp spends 5 minutes of TV time to repeat what he said a number of times in the last two days. At least he is not camera shy. Is this the final speech for the final victory, or can we expect more final 5 minutes speeches for his final victory.

Yeah what a let down, I had the cold Chang and popcorn ready but alas I blinked and missed the dear leaders speech.

[55Jay]

Yes agree with you there in that it is indeed sadly amusing, but also seriously the truth as we should all realise by now. I am sincerely talking in the true interests of Thailand and no personal agenda whatsoever. I want to see Thailand come back from its current political instability, corruption and stupidity, back into the realms of the true and fair democratic world where the people and ONLY the true majority of people make their choices fairly and honestly and we all should then respect that choice no matter which side get elected. That is what Thailand needs to learn as to what true democracy is and than to do something to implement and embrace it,.as nothing will change here for the better until it does.

I think we would all like to see that however your idealistic view, while good, overlooks the fact this is a polarized country and that the current political theater has nothing to do with the actual power base in this country. It is plain to see who got the nod and who didn't.

Thailand will remain a hybrid system, requiring tune ups every few years when the peasants get too uppity, or the upper crust forgets to pretend they care about the peasants.

Thailand's real future awaits, just around the bend.

Oh yes I never pretended that it was anything other than an idealistic view as of course we can never escape the current reality we live in.

However I defend idealism in that it at least shows us in which general direction we should be starting to head, as any movement in that direction however small has to be a good positive one by the very definition of ideal. Without idealism we have no idea which way to face or on which path to start to tread. So surely we desperately need more idealistic thoughts that most of us can and I believe will in the end agree on, or else there really is no chance for us at all. So that is why I support and salute idealism as long as we can also accept the reality we currently live in too, and use idealism as a useful and sound guide for a hopefully better future. .

Roger that, and I did acknowledge it was "good". Just not very realistic. Will, however, look for positive signs and hope for the best.

[Just1Voice]

Suthep claims he is the representative of the "Great Masses" of Thailand. Really? I haven't seen or heard any reports about the millions of Thai supporting him on this "Final Final". Maybe a few thousand. Okay, make it 100,000 and give him the benefit of the doubt. But 100k against 67 millions is hardly the "great mass". No, Suthep only represents Suthep, and his rich elite backers who want to take Thailand 30-40 years backwards so the ruling elite can retain their serfdom reality, such as it is. A man such as Suthep, one of the most corrupt politicians to ever exist, talking about "reforms" to end corruption is laughable. I give him credit for getting the people involved against the blanket amnesty that would have cleared Dr. T of all crimes, but after that the power went to his head and he's become more seriously delusional with each passing day.