Legitimate?

[KarenBravo]

Do businesses or residences have any rights to the private road that gives access?

No - the owner of the private road can deny access to the owner of any land along the private road. The idea of a 1.5m strip of access is nonsense. I have some experience on this point. My wife bought some land off Nanai Rd, enquired at our bank about a loan for building, they flatly told her no chance of any bank loan as there was no access title. Luckily she had good relations with elderly man that owned the road and he agreed to sign access rights at the Kathu land office, much to the annoyance of his son who brokered that land purchase. I advised all the neighbours about this potential problem, they all thought it unnecessary. So they sold on the land and buildings and then that son appeared out of the wood work and demanded a very large sum for access. The new buyer had to pay as the 'demand' was accompanied by a group of unsavory gangsters.

It is not nonsense. Land that does not have public access is entitled to a 1.5 metre access. Ask your lawyer next time you see him.

[LivinginKata]

It is not nonsense. Land that does not have public access is entitled to a 1.5 metre access. Ask your lawyer next time you see him.

I guess you are talking about a long standing right of way. Best of luck with a long winded court case to prove your right of way, takes many many years, like 10 plus years.

[NamKangMan]

Do businesses or residences have any rights to the private road that gives access?

No - the owner of the private road can deny access to the owner of any land along the private road. The idea of a 1.5m strip of access is nonsense. I have some experience on this point. My wife bought some land off Nanai Rd, enquired at our bank about a loan for building, they flatly told her no chance of any bank loan as there was no access title. Luckily she had good relations with elderly man that owned the road and he agreed to sign access rights at the Kathu land office, much to the annoyance of his son who brokered that land purchase. I advised all the neighbours about this potential problem, they all thought it unnecessary. So they sold on the land and buildings and then that son appeared out of the wood work and demanded a very large sum for access. The new buyer had to pay as the 'demand' was accompanied by a group of unsavory gangsters.

How ridiculous.

An owner of land can develop and sell off blocks but maintains control over access to those blocks of land, which will eventually have accommodation or busnesses on them and can deny access, or demand payment for access, at any time in the future, or, even build on the road.

[NamKangMan]

Do businesses or residences have any rights to the private road that gives access?

No - the owner of the private road can deny access to the owner of any land along the private road. The idea of a 1.5m strip of access is nonsense. I have some experience on this point. My wife bought some land off Nanai Rd, enquired at our bank about a loan for building, they flatly told her no chance of any bank loan as there was no access title. Luckily she had good relations with elderly man that owned the road and he agreed to sign access rights at the Kathu land office, much to the annoyance of his son who brokered that land purchase. I advised all the neighbours about this potential problem, they all thought it unnecessary. So they sold on the land and buildings and then that son appeared out of the wood work and demanded a very large sum for access. The new buyer had to pay as the 'demand' was accompanied by a group of unsavory gangsters.

It is not nonsense. Land that does not have public access is entitled to a 1.5 metre access. Ask your lawyer next time you see him.

Well, you could get a motorbike through a 1.5m access strip, but not a car.

How would you even move your furniture into your place?

[LivinginKata]

How ridiculous.

An owner of land can develop and sell off blocks but maintains control over access to those blocks of land, which will eventually have accommodation or busnesses on them and can deny access, or demand payment for access, at any time in the future, or, even build on the road.

I have talked with the owner of our road. It's not so easy for the owner to just hand over the private road to the local government as then that local body must take on the responsibity for road repairs and public services. I really don't know the real deal here but as I understand it the owner of any 'private' road must sign the land over to the tesibaan (now that's a big deal to any Thai - give away land) and even have to pay to waive any future liabilty for road repairs and services. It's really not so easy as you might think.

[jocko]

If you remember when the soi was a lot less busy the various businesses had the whole length of the business for parking for there customer they were then told they would loss that facility although they had meetings with the owner it was carried out now as you see all they have is the entrance area .Go and ask the long term businesses there they will tell you and some of them own the business and building Fiddy's for example.

[NamKangMan]

How ridiculous.

An owner of land can develop and sell off blocks but maintains control over access to those blocks of land, which will eventually have accommodation or busnesses on them and can deny access, or demand payment for access, at any time in the future, or, even build on the road.

I have talked with the owner of our road. It's not so easy for the owner to just hand over the private road to the local government as then that local body must take on the responsibity for road repairs and public services. I really don't know the real deal here but as I understand it the owner of any 'private' road must sign the land over to the tesibaan (now that's a big deal to any Thai - give away land) and even have to pay to waive any future liabilty for road repairs and services. It's really not so easy as you might think.

So, if Soi Sansabi has been signed over to the tesiban, how is it that it is being used as a car park, for the commercial gain of an individual?

[KarenBravo]

It hasn't been handed over. It's still private (as you have been told over and over again).

[LivinginKata]

Inflammatory post removed

[stevenl]

It is not nonsense. Land that does not have public access is entitled to a 1.5 metre access. Ask your lawyer next time you see him.

I guess you are talking about a long standing right of way. Best of luck with a long winded court case to prove your right of way, takes many many years, like 10 plus years.

Plus of course there has to be a long standing right of way.

[nedkellylives]

The only right anyone has over private land that doesn't belong to them is a 1.5 metre wide access to their own property.

If the owner of Sansabai felt like it, he could build a brick wall across either end of the soi and build more stuff in the road, but, he must leave a 1.5 metre access.

Just wide enough for a buffalo and cart

[nedkellylives]

It is not nonsense. Land that does not have public access is entitled to a 1.5 metre access. Ask your lawyer next time you see him.

I guess you are talking about a long standing right of way. Best of luck with a long winded court case to prove your right of way, takes many many years, like 10 plus years.

Plus of course there has to be a long standing right of way.

I do not know the rules here but in Australia, perth, their is a shopping mall called london court which is

privately owned, once a year it is closed to the general public for 24 hours, if not it would become a public right of way

[nedkellylives]

The problem is here that the developer not only owns the roads but other services as well and can charge what they want for them

electricity and water are 2 examples, if everything was handed over to the relevant authority's like happens in developed countries there would be no problems

Edited May 11, 2014 by nedkellylives

[Patong2]

Happy to pay the 40B in my case as we have a bigger bike.

Much easier than my lady having to walk the length of Soi Sansabai in high heels.

But have you watched these guys fit these scooters in like sardines in a tin.

Spin them on the sidestand effortlessly

They really are amazing and surprisingly attempt to be careful.

And they retrieve your scooter from the rear row of three rows all for the 20B

Help stupid tourists find their bike for them even.

Cheap entertainment and well worth 20B

[Ping]

My contract includes the half width of road in front, with a stipulation that I must provide right of access. So I can stop people parking out the front of my place (not that it's a problem) but cannot put a structure there. Soi San Sabai is not the same arrangement, because it night-time, bikes will be parked up to three deep in front of businesses without those businesses having any redress. Access to the entries of those businesses is kept clear. As others have said, the soi itself remains in private hands. As to the building jutting out onto Soi Banzaan, I am told that this is currently the subject of litigation and has been for many years (hence non-completion of the hotel), but I cannot guarantee that is true.

[NamKangMan]

Happy to pay the 40B in my case as we have a bigger bike.

Much easier than my lady having to walk the length of Soi Sansabai in high heels.

But have you watched these guys fit these scooters in like sardines in a tin.

Spin them on the sidestand effortlessly

They really are amazing and surprisingly attempt to be careful.

And they retrieve your scooter from the rear row of three rows all for the 20B

Help stupid tourists find their bike for them even.

Cheap entertainment and well worth 20B

I sat in a bar on Soi Sansabai one night, a while ago now, and watched a foreigner, who could barely walk straight, had his bike pulled out and ready for him to ride off on by one of these parking guys.

The guy helped him onto his bike, but he was that drunk, he fell off it, straight away.

It was funny to see, but also concerning.

There's a lot of guys like that riding on the roads here, every night, whether they be locals, tourists or expats.

I bet that parking guy could tell a few stories.

[NamKangMan]

My contract includes the half width of road in front, with a stipulation that I must provide right of access. So I can stop people parking out the front of my place (not that it's a problem) but cannot put a structure there. Soi San Sabai is not the same arrangement, because it night-time, bikes will be parked up to three deep in front of businesses without those businesses having any redress. Access to the entries of those businesses is kept clear. As others have said, the soi itself remains in private hands. As to the building jutting out onto Soi Banzaan, I am told that this is currently the subject of litigation and has been for many years (hence non-completion of the hotel), but I cannot guarantee that is true.

Your contract must be what I was getting at in previous posts, which KB disagreed with.

Obviously, the fool on Soi Banzaan took the contract too literally and built on his half of the road.

There seems to be some conflicting information on this thread.

LIK says the road must be handed over to the tesiban, thus, reducing the rights of the owner.

KB says you have no right to halfway out onto the road, but do have a right to a 1.5m access, but the own is free to do with the road as he likes, as long as there is a 1.5m access.

Ned says the owner even owns the ability to get utilities (electric, water, phone etc) to your property - this is a new one on me.

It's probably one of those T.I.T things, but I would be interested in any relevant Thai Law on the issue.

If they are charging to park on Soi Sansabai, what's stopping the owner from charging a toll, just to drive on Soi Sansabai?

[grumpyoldman]

My contract includes the half width of road in front, with a stipulation that I must provide right of access. So I can stop people parking out the front of my place (not that it's a problem) but cannot put a structure there. Soi San Sabai is not the same arrangement, because it night-time, bikes will be parked up to three deep in front of businesses without those businesses having any redress. Access to the entries of those businesses is kept clear. As others have said, the soi itself remains in private hands. As to the building jutting out onto Soi Banzaan, I am told that this is currently the subject of litigation and has been for many years (hence non-completion of the hotel), but I cannot guarantee that is true.

Your contract must be what I was getting at in previous posts, which KB disagreed with.

Obviously, the fool on Soi Banzaan took the contract too literally and built on his half of the road.

There seems to be some conflicting information on this thread.

LIK says the road must be handed over to the tesiban, thus, reducing the rights of the owner.

KB says you have no right to halfway out onto the road, but do have a right to a 1.5m access, but the own is free to do with the road as he likes, as long as there is a 1.5m access.

Ned says the owner even owns the ability to get utilities (electric, water, phone etc) to your property - this is a new one on me.

It's probably one of those T.I.T things, but I would be interested in any relevant Thai Law on the issue.

If they are charging to park on Soi Sansabai, what's stopping the owner from charging a toll, just to drive on Soi Sansabai?

Of your rant NKM I found your last sentence to be the most interesting.

Point taken from Ping's post is the lease agreement.

But yes, I agree, if it's a private road as mentioned I think they could put up toll gates at each end, and then wouldn't really need the orange shirts.

[stevenl]

My contract includes the half width of road in front, with a stipulation that I must provide right of access. So I can stop people parking out the front of my place (not that it's a problem) but cannot put a structure there. Soi San Sabai is not the same arrangement, because it night-time, bikes will be parked up to three deep in front of businesses without those businesses having any redress. Access to the entries of those businesses is kept clear. As others have said, the soi itself remains in private hands. As to the building jutting out onto Soi Banzaan, I am told that this is currently the subject of litigation and has been for many years (hence non-completion of the hotel), but I cannot guarantee that is true.

Your contract must be what I was getting at in previous posts, which KB disagreed with.

Obviously, the fool on Soi Banzaan took the contract too literally and built on his half of the road.

There seems to be some conflicting information on this thread.

LIK says the road must be handed over to the tesiban, thus, reducing the rights of the owner.

KB says you have no right to halfway out onto the road, but do have a right to a 1.5m access, but the own is free to do with the road as he likes, as long as there is a 1.5m access.

Ned says the owner even owns the ability to get utilities (electric, water, phone etc) to your property - this is a new one on me.

It's probably one of those T.I.T things, but I would be interested in any relevant Thai Law on the issue.

If they are charging to park on Soi Sansabai, what's stopping the owner from charging a toll, just to drive on Soi Sansabai?

There really is no point in any discussion with you when you can not get correct what others have said.

[LivinginKata]

@ NKM

Show me where I said 'road must be handed over to tesibaan'

Any private road stays under owner's control and that owner is not compelled to hand over to tesibaan unless there is some compelling public reason.

[NamKangMan]

@ NKM

Show me where I said 'road must be handed over to tesibaan'

Any private road stays under owner's control and that owner is not compelled to hand over to tesibaan unless there is some compelling public reason.

"I really don't know the real deal here but as I understand it the owner of any 'private' road must sign the land over to the tesibaan (now that's a big deal to any Thai - give away land)" - note the words, "MUST SIGN THE LAND OVER TO THE TESIBAAN."

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I took that to mean the owner "must sign the land over to the tesibaan."

[NamKangMan]

My contract includes the half width of road in front, with a stipulation that I must provide right of access. So I can stop people parking out the front of my place (not that it's a problem) but cannot put a structure there. Soi San Sabai is not the same arrangement, because it night-time, bikes will be parked up to three deep in front of businesses without those businesses having any redress. Access to the entries of those businesses is kept clear. As others have said, the soi itself remains in private hands. As to the building jutting out onto Soi Banzaan, I am told that this is currently the subject of litigation and has been for many years (hence non-completion of the hotel), but I cannot guarantee that is true.

Your contract must be what I was getting at in previous posts, which KB disagreed with.

Obviously, the fool on Soi Banzaan took the contract too literally and built on his half of the road.

There seems to be some conflicting information on this thread.

LIK says the road must be handed over to the tesiban, thus, reducing the rights of the owner.

KB says you have no right to halfway out onto the road, but do have a right to a 1.5m access, but the own is free to do with the road as he likes, as long as there is a 1.5m access.

Ned says the owner even owns the ability to get utilities (electric, water, phone etc) to your property - this is a new one on me.

It's probably one of those T.I.T things, but I would be interested in any relevant Thai Law on the issue.

If they are charging to park on Soi Sansabai, what's stopping the owner from charging a toll, just to drive on Soi Sansabai?

Of your rant NKM I found your last sentence to be the most interesting.

Point taken from Ping's post is the lease agreement.

But yes, I agree, if it's a private road as mentioned I think they could put up toll gates at each end, and then wouldn't really need the orange shirts.

It's not a rant.

It appears there are different contracts in place, attached to different properties, for the use of the private roads giving access.

[LivinginKata]

@ NKM

Show me where I said 'road must be handed over to tesibaan'

Any private road stays under owner's control and that owner is not compelled to hand over to tesibaan unless there is some compelling public reason.

"I really don't know the real deal here but as I understand it the owner of any 'private' road must sign the land over to the tesibaan (now that's a big deal to any Thai - give away land)" - note the words, "MUST SIGN THE LAND OVER TO THE TESIBAAN."

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I took that to mean the owner "must sign the land over to the tesibaan."

You certainly did not understand my post. Nowhere did I say the owner was compelled to sign over the road. I was making a simple statement that the owner must sign over the land to tesibaan for any road to become public. Not many Thai owners would do that on a voluntary basis. Indeed there are finanancial reasons not to sign over.

[NamKangMan]

@ NKM

Show me where I said 'road must be handed over to tesibaan'

Any private road stays under owner's control and that owner is not compelled to hand over to tesibaan unless there is some compelling public reason.

"I really don't know the real deal here but as I understand it the owner of any 'private' road must sign the land over to the tesibaan (now that's a big deal to any Thai - give away land)" - note the words, "MUST SIGN THE LAND OVER TO THE TESIBAAN."

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I took that to mean the owner "must sign the land over to the tesibaan."

You certainly did not understand my post. Nowhere did I say the owner was compelled to sign over the road. I was making a simple statement that the owner must sign over the land to tesibaan for any road to become public. Not many Thai owners would do that on a voluntary basis. Indeed there are finanancial reasons not to sign over.

Now I understand.

I took your post to mean, once the owner developed the land Eg. sold off blocks or built accommodation and/or business premises on the land, he MUST sign the road over to the tesibaan, thus, ensuring he couldn't then block access to the properties.

All clear now.

[PattayaPhom]

Why on earth would you even bother riding yourself in Patong? There are plenty of tuk tuks and taxis.

Yep in Pattaya a song taew 10 baht there and 10 baht back after drinking your 30 baht chang and eating 25 baht noodles...I love Pattaya. Door to door with food and booze for 75 baht.

[grumpyoldman]

Why on earth would you even bother riding yourself in Patong? There are plenty of tuk tuks and taxis.

Yep in Pattaya a song taew 10 baht there and 10 baht back after drinking your 30 baht chang and eating 25 baht noodles...I love Pattaya. Door to door with food and booze for 75 baht.

Yep Patters cig smoking barstool spuds, the most exercise gotten in the last 15 years is the dash to the bar when someone rings the bell, you're welcome to stay there and enjoy your inexpensive song taew.

Flaw in Phuket sure but man, one flogged horse for sure.........

[NamKangMan]

Why on earth would you even bother riding yourself in Patong? There are plenty of tuk tuks and taxis.

Yep in Pattaya a song taew 10 baht there and 10 baht back after drinking your 30 baht chang and eating 25 baht noodles...I love Pattaya. Door to door with food and booze for 75 baht.

Yep Patters cig smoking barstool spuds, the most exercise gotten in the last 15 years is the dash to the bar when someone rings the bell, you're welcome to stay there and enjoy your inexpensive song taew.

Flaw in Phuket sure but man, one flogged horse for sure.........

Yes, a horse ride on Phuket would be cheaper than a tuk-tuk here.

[grumpyoldman]

Why on earth would you even bother riding yourself in Patong? There are plenty of tuk tuks and taxis.

Yep in Pattaya a song taew 10 baht there and 10 baht back after drinking your 30 baht chang and eating 25 baht noodles...I love Pattaya. Door to door with food and booze for 75 baht.

Yep Patters cig smoking barstool spuds, the most exercise gotten in the last 15 years is the dash to the bar when someone rings the bell, you're welcome to stay there and enjoy your inexpensive song taew.

Flaw in Phuket sure but man, one flogged horse for sure.........

Yes, a horse ride on Phuket would be cheaper than a tuk-tuk here.

Thank you resident said flogged horse, jockey.