Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls

[AleG]

For all those obsessed with the violence perperated or threatened by the red shirts should take a good look at the not unsubstantial efforts of the yellow shirts. Their thugs, oops sorry guards have continuously threatened, harrassed, intimidated and beaten not only opponants but innocent people. They have caused constant annoyance and inconvience to innocent residents and workers. Above all they are making Thailand a laughing stock around the world.

All those people who readily jump to the defence of Suthep and what he is doing should cast your minds back to some of his anti foreigner rhetoric. Also ask yourself this would you put up with his crap in your own country.

The only anti-foreign rethoric, nay, action, that has happened related to the protests was the government attempt to deport Satit Segal for speaking against corruption on a stage and threatening all foreigners with the same if they joined the protests.

[wolf5370]

It is quite clear that a democratically elected government is slowly being undemocratically removed. Even after they offered the dummy spitters a second chance. The dummy spitters however took their dummys home and refused to play. Democracy indeed.

Two other things are clear, the army is largly staying away because they know that the majority of the nation are not sympathetic to the Yellows and clearly understand that Suthep is a power crazy fool.

If someone had a bit of courage to take this raving lunatic (Mr the final battle) Suthep of the streets a resolution of some sort would be reached.

I am waiting for someone to ask Suthep what he has done with all the money. Maybe he's stashing it away for a quick exit to Dubai.

Your analysis is flawed - have a look at the General's comments with respect to military involvement during the whole of this debacle. See how quick he was to jump on the secession threats. They learned a lesson in 2006, even in a bloodless coup, that resulted in 2010 nightmare. This is the only reason they have been slow to act this time. If someone had taken Suthep off the streets, all h3ll would have broken loose (Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war) - that is why no one did; they had plenty of chances to safely lift him - he attended court once to acknowledge the silly murder change, went to the Senate building this month to congratulate the new speaker, and many other occasions.

Asking what Suthep has done with money freely handed to him by the people in the street is rich when so many billions are missing from government accounts, eh?

BTW There is no democratically elected government - it was dissolved voluntarily last year.

Many occasions YL turned down Suthep's requests to talk openly - this was ignored, denied or only accepted with PTP restrictions. He even offered for televised and independently (foreign) mediated talks. It wasn't until YL's team had spit out their dummies that suddenly they wanted to talk.

I,m really am not a supporter of this Government or red shirts. The Government is totaly inept and should be tossed out democratically. The red shirts are not democratic and use violence as their tool. However, The Democrats have done nothing to help improve matters and let that nut Suthep (self appointed ruler of the world) loose on the streets to do their bidding. However, Suthep has not intention of helping the Democrats, he seeks glory for himself and his well hidden backers.

Suthep was a rich man before fools on the street gave him any money, where did he get his money from. Just saying.

As for the Army, they have made it quite clear as recently as today that they have no intention of helping Suthep but will intervene if things get out of hand. In other words if the reds want violence they will step in. Of course Suthep is praying for this to happen.

Sorry, have to say no again. The last thing Suthep wants is for the army to kick in with another coup - that will just restart the cycle as it did in 2006 - and will be used as a scapegoat for all the ills (again as was stated after the last coup). It is what the Reds have been pushing for if anyone. What benefit would Suthep glean from a coup? The government is defunct and headless - the Reds cornered and snapping madly at anything - all he has to do is sit back and watch it at itself up.

[wolf5370]

This is exactly why Thaksin wants Thailand. ASEAN is going to change SE Asia and bring many opportunities to the represented countries here. Thaksin sees big money ahead, and he wants his hands on it. He could give a rats ass about improving Thailand as a whole. He is only thinking of how rich he'll become. I really believe he has planned this over the past 10 or more years. I also believe he will manipulate everything to his favor of becoming "President for Life". Therefore, Thaksin will not loose, as he has previously stated. If he can't have it, then he will destroy it. God help the Thai people.

Thaksin is already so rich he is drowning in it. What is he going to do with billions more - use it for toilet paper?

You mean the guy that once said that he is too wealthy to need to be corrupt before he was first elected, then formally prosecuted and found guilty of corruption - that guy? The guy who made some 450 billion baht in the last 3 years. The guy that changed tax laws so he could illegally sell Shin Corp. to a foreign power and get to keep the tax due? The guy that compulsory bought land and then sold it at a reduced price by auction that only his wife knew about?

Since when has any wealthy person ever wanted to be more wealthy - an excellent agreement there - not!

Which begs the question, when is enough enough for an old aged guy who doesn't have many years left? When do you start to enjoy what little time you have left. I wouldn't presume to be a mind reader like the OP, but perhaps you are with him?

No I did not agree with the op either. My take on Thaksin was that he wanted two things: His money back - the rest that remains frozen - and amnesty so he can come home if and when he wants and be allowed into countries that have banned him because of his status (like the UK for example). This is what I believe was his goal - but I also believe he is a megalomaniac and could not resist micromanaging and trying to work it to his further advantage. Suthep I also see as a megalomaniac, but that's another story.

[maxme]

For all those obsessed with the violence perperated or threatened by the red shirts should take a good look at the not unsubstantial efforts of the yellow shirts. Their thugs, oops sorry guards have continuously threatened, harrassed, intimidated and beaten not only opponants but innocent people. They have caused constant annoyance and inconvience to innocent residents and workers. Above all they are making Thailand a laughing stock around the world.

All those people who readily jump to the defence of Suthep and what he is doing should cast your minds back to some of his anti foreigner rhetoric. Also ask yourself this would you put up with his crap in your own country.

The only anti-foreign rethoric, nay, action, that has happened related to the protests was the government attempt to deport Satit Segal for speaking against corruption on a stage and threatening all foreigners with the same if they joined the protests.

Yeah Wongmontha was just venting about political weather.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Globeman]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

I'm sorry, but that is one of the most reckless and ill-conceived remarks I've ever read on TV - and that is saying something.

Does it have to be a specific majority? Would 50.5% vs 49.5% split be enough for you? Or does it have to be the 65-35 split we have now?

You are seriously suggesting that a civil war is some sort of solution? Yeah, it sounds all noble and everything to puff out your chest and volunteer the lives of others in support of one of your political ideals, but it would destroy this country economically and would leave thousands of innocent people dead. The place would be in tatters and seething with hatred and mistrust.

Great idea.

[DrDweeb]

These repeated warnings of dire consequences from the red shirts have a whiff of desperation about them. They are in a corner and seem to know this. They have lost the battle of numbers because their core support is not motivated and seems divided. The momentum and the passion is with the other side. If the army took over tomorrow i doubt there would be much more than a few squeals. Time will tell i suppose.

Desperation or determination..................... to hang to their right to vote?

I have not read of any one who does not want the right to vote

But I know many who want to vote under a Fair Voting system

so please tell us are you for or against a fairer system than what PTP have now

The point many of us have made repeatedly (with citations) is that academic research shows that vote buying has not been a key factor in determining recent Thai general election results. The latest study - admittedly by a fairly junior researcher - corroborates that finding.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/05/01/electoral-integrity-in-thailand/

The senior Democrat politician Korn is also on record as saying that vote buying no longer determines election results and that indeed in the last valid election his party spent more on vote buying than did PT.

So what is the problem the reforms are designed to fix? If there is no vote buying problem, then what can be changed which would make PTP less likely to win? Perhaps, for instance, it is about the kinds of (populist) policies a party is allowed to put forward or the qualifications of the voters. What worries me is that reform actually means bending the rules to achieve a change in power.

I notice that you say your family lived in a red village, without indicating that that included yourself. In the past I too lived in what is effectively a red village in central Isaan full time for 15 months, although at present I do so for only a couple of months per year. All I can say is that our views seem very different.

Why pay? There are more effective ways of securing votes - fear for starters. Then there is simple manipulation - tell enough lies to the unsophisticated and disenfranchised and promise them what they have never had and never will is another. The second of the two is a significant factor in "democracy" having a "tough time" in 3rd world (and lower) countries.

[DrDweeb]

Not could but will....

I doubt it.... When they don't get paid, they don't turn up, and the notorious Khun_T won't part with that much money for that to happen

Now that YL is unemployed, maybe she can get her old job as "bagman" back?

(ok. I could've written "baglady", but that means something else)

[DrDweeb]

Good for you - I also came from a very poor family and did the same as your wife. My husband helped me - but i was never going to sit in the rice field and wait for a Shinawatra handout!!! The people in Isan HAVE choices. They are NOT kept down they can come to Bangkok and get cheap University degrees and work for legitimate businesses just like anywhere in the world why should we keep a wanted criminal dictator to give them handouts and call it democracy - no other country does!! Im shocked that western posters would advocate Thailand becoming a Shinawatra nanny state after all he's done. WE ARE BETTER than that!!

There are a great many of us waiting for Thais to prove that, but so far it doesn't look good.

[bander]

"A military crackdown on Red Shirt protests against the previous government left dozens dead in central Bangkok in 2010."

Only way to deal with a mob controlled by Thaksin and payed to make mayhem in Bangkok

[Buckeye Bill]

Nobody seems to understand the consequences of a civil war. Look at Syria and the Ukraine and remember Spain and Sri Lanka.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[3NUMBAS]

she could go into movies , a sellout for the loving reds , a THai Baywatch clone on Phukets beaches where nobody ever gets saved

[MJP]

Nobody seems to understand the consequences of a civil war. Look at Syria and the Ukraine and remember Spain and Sri Lanka.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thank you. A sane man speaks.

The prospect of actual country wide civil war should terrify us all.

The Thai trait of being idle may well be their saving grace. Ultimately I think they can't be bothered.

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[3NUMBAS]

its not just the reds who have been robbed of their votes it right across the spectrum so a lot of peed off voters across the land ready to roll with weaponry . the taxi drivers in BKK are livid at the mess caused by suthep .many are on the breadline without sutheps actions for 6 months .the wealthy elites have crushed them all into penury

Edited May 11, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[sumtingwong]

Good for you - I also came from a very poor family and did the same as your wife. My husband helped me - but i was never going to sit in the rice field and wait for a Shinawatra handout!!! The people in Isan HAVE choices. They are NOT kept down they can come to Bangkok and get cheap University degrees and work for legitimate businesses just like anywhere in the world why should we keep a wanted criminal dictator to give them handouts and call it democracy - no other country does!! Im shocked that western posters would advocate Thailand becoming a Shinawatra nanny state after all he's done. WE ARE BETTER than that!!

You are one SMART lady.

[trev666]

Red shirts > yellow shirts.

Next election Thaksin party > yellow party

END OF STORY

No matter how many times you try to screw the country over!

You may find that Thaksin has screwed the country over one time too many

If you read books penned by his opponents, i.e. the eunuch Mark Abhisit

he isnt a eunuch he has 2 children

[trev666]

For all those obsessed with the violence perperated or threatened by the red shirts should take a good look at the not unsubstantial efforts of the yellow shirts. Their thugs, oops sorry guards have continuously threatened, harrassed, intimidated and beaten not only opponants but innocent people. They have caused constant annoyance and inconvience to innocent residents and workers. Above all they are making Thailand a laughing stock around the world.

All those people who readily jump to the defence of Suthep and what he is doing should cast your minds back to some of his anti foreigner rhetoric. Also ask yourself this would you put up with his crap in your own country.

sutheps a naughty boy he should be more like the goverment supporters and throw some grenades at a crowd of children

[Publicus]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

I'm sorry, but that is one of the most reckless and ill-conceived remarks I've ever read on TV - and that is saying something.

Does it have to be a specific majority? Would 50.5% vs 49.5% split be enough for you? Or does it have to be the 65-35 split we have now?

You are seriously suggesting that a civil war is some sort of solution? Yeah, it sounds all noble and everything to puff out your chest and volunteer the lives of others in support of one of your political ideals, but it would destroy this country economically and would leave thousands of innocent people dead. The place would be in tatters and seething with hatred and mistrust.

Great idea.

You need to say that to the reactionary forces of the society, namely Suthep, his PDRC feudalists and more than to anyone else the ammart. It is they who are resisting socio-economic and demographic change of historical proportions in the country and people. The long dispossessed have discovered that democracy is their ticket to a future of inclusion in the development of the nation but the old guard won't have any of it. The stubborn obstructionists have to accept reality or they will suffer the consequences of what they reap. The ammart are indeed busy reaping, the grim reapers that are the ammart.

[Soutpeel]

For all those obsessed with the violence perperated or threatened by the red shirts should take a good look at the not unsubstantial efforts of the yellow shirts. Their thugs, oops sorry guards have continuously threatened, harrassed, intimidated and beaten not only opponants but innocent people. They have caused constant annoyance and inconvience to innocent residents and workers. Above all they are making Thailand a laughing stock around the world.

All those people who readily jump to the defence of Suthep and what he is doing should cast your minds back to some of his anti foreigner rhetoric. Also ask yourself this would you put up with his crap in your own country.

The only anti-foreign rethoric, nay, action, that has happened related to the protests was the government attempt to deport Satit Segal for speaking against corruption on a stage and threatening all foreigners with the same if they joined the protests.

Which is ironic seeing as Robert Amsterdam was apparently speaking on stage at the red shirt rally yesterday, so guess one must enquire as to what CAPO is gong to do about it ?....arrest him/deport him, at the very least we should expect condemnation from TV rabid reds same as they did with the indian

[MGP]

For all those obsessed with the violence perperated or threatened by the red shirts should take a good look at the not unsubstantial efforts of the yellow shirts. Their thugs, oops sorry guards have continuously threatened, harrassed, intimidated and beaten not only opponants but innocent people. They have caused constant annoyance and inconvience to innocent residents and workers. Above all they are making Thailand a laughing stock around the world.

All those people who readily jump to the defence of Suthep and what he is doing should cast your minds back to some of his anti foreigner rhetoric. Also ask yourself this would you put up with his crap in your own country.

The only anti-foreign rethoric, nay, action, that has happened related to the protests was the government attempt to deport Satit Segal for speaking against corruption on a stage and threatening all foreigners with the same if they joined the protests.

Which is ironic seeing as Robert Amsterdam was apparently speaking on stage at the red shirt rally yesterday, so guess one must enquire as to what CAPO is gong to do about it ?....arrest him/deport him, at the very least we should expect condemnation from TV rabid reds same as they did with the indian

I agree. Mr. Sathit Segal (former chairman of the Thai-Indian Business Forum) did not talk about politics at the anti-government stage, neither said names or disrespect anyone; he just said that Thailand would have a better future without corruption. On the other side, Mr Amsterdam is defaming Royal Thai Institutions and adding high-octane fuel to the conflict, and that's precisely what the TV Red Shirt lovers like!

Edited May 11, 2014 by MGP

[jeanpierre]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

The majority of the population do not want a civil war. Just a few nuts who are mostly on Thaksin's payroll.

The majority of the population want their democratic vote, after having it stripped from them.... again... Because they just won't vote in the 'correct' people, d@mn them.

I would like to see an election where only people that pay taxes, eligible students and senior citizens get to vote. The results would be astounding I'm sure.

yes the right to vote for peopel who earns more than two million bht a year

[rabas]

Nobody seems to understand the consequences of a civil war. Look at Syria and the Ukraine and remember Spain and Sri Lanka.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Look at the United States. Killed off 3% of the population.

[Thaiisnotrequired]

The only anti-foreign rethoric, nay, action, that has happened related to the protests was the government attempt to deport Satit Segal for speaking against corruption on a stage and threatening all foreigners with the same if they joined the protests.

Which is ironic seeing as Robert Amsterdam was apparently speaking on stage at the red shirt rally yesterday, so guess one must enquire as to what CAPO is gong to do about it ?....arrest him/deport him, at the very least we should expect condemnation from TV rabid reds same as they did with the indian

I agree. Mr. Sathit Segal (former chairman of the Thai-Indian Business Forum) did not talk about politics at the anti-government stage, neither said names or disrespect anyone; he just said that Thailand would have a better future without corruption. On the other side, Mr Amsterdam is defaming Royal Thai Institutions and adding high-octane fuel to the conflict, and that's precisely what the TV Red Shirt lovers like!

Absolutely, and the kinds of messages is he sending apparently mirroring images for the rest of us is a component that concerns me!

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So Jatuporn is now officially threatening the security of the state by promising a civil war. Isn't it time for the army to step in and protect the state, as they are sworn to do?

I don't think he is promising a civil war so much as he is just stating the obvious The military stepping in now after the courts ruled in such a partisan way would just get this whole thing started again, except this time I fear far more violence

[MGP]

Nobody seems to understand the consequences of a civil war. Look at Syria and the Ukraine and remember Spain and Sri Lanka.

Thank you. A sane man speaks.

The prospect of actual country wide civil war should terrify us all.

The Thai trait of being idle may well be their saving grace. Ultimately I think they can't be bothered.

+1

I believe that the apologists of war are not 100% human. They may have been given the precious opportunity to be born as humans, but if they are not careful with their wishes they may go back to the hell where they came from.

[Piichai]

This is exactly why Thaksin wants Thailand. ASEAN is going to change SE Asia and bring many opportunities to the represented countries here. Thaksin sees big money ahead, and he wants his hands on it. He could give a rats ass about improving Thailand as a whole. He is only thinking of how rich he'll become. I really believe he has planned this over the past 10 or more years. I also believe he will manipulate everything to his favor of becoming "President for Life". Therefore, Thaksin will not loose, as he has previously stated. If he can't have it, then he will destroy it. God help the Thai people.

Thaksin is already so rich he is drowning in it. What is he going to do with billions more - use it for toilet paper?

The THB isn't as absorbent as Charmin, but it *is* cheaper!

Edited May 12, 2014 by Piichai

[Piichai]

its not just the reds who have been robbed of their votes it right across the spectrum so a lot of peed off voters across the land ready to roll with weaponry . the taxi drivers in BKK are livid at the mess caused by suthep .many are on the breadline without sutheps actions for 6 months .the wealthy elites have crushed them all into penury

Bangkok is quite a bit larger than a half-dozen or so intersections.

The truth is that Bangkok taxi drivers never had it so good. They charged OTT fares to people leaving the intersections, and the half-dozen or so blocked intersections gave them an excuse to take people the long way home thus increasing their income further.

[Piichai]

For all those obsessed with the violence perperated or threatened by the red shirts should take a good look at the not unsubstantial efforts of the yellow shirts. Their thugs, oops sorry guards have continuously threatened, harrassed, intimidated and beaten not only opponants but innocent people. They have caused constant annoyance and inconvience to innocent residents and workers. Above all they are making Thailand a laughing stock around the world.

All those people who readily jump to the defence of Suthep and what he is doing should cast your minds back to some of his anti foreigner rhetoric. Also ask yourself this would you put up with his crap in your own country.

The only anti-foreign rethoric, nay, action, that has happened related to the protests was the government attempt to deport Satit Segal for speaking against corruption on a stage and threatening all foreigners with the same if they joined the protests.

Which is ironic seeing as Robert Amsterdam was apparently speaking on stage at the red shirt rally yesterday, so guess one must enquire as to what CAPO is gong to do about it ?....arrest him/deport him, at the very least we should expect condemnation from TV rabid reds same as they did with the indian

Seems like another good reason for NACC to investigate CAPO!

[Robby nz]

This is exactly why Thaksin wants Thailand. ASEAN is going to change SE Asia and bring many opportunities to the represented countries here. Thaksin sees big money ahead, and he wants his hands on it. He could give a rats ass about improving Thailand as a whole. He is only thinking of how rich he'll become. I really believe he has planned this over the past 10 or more years. I also believe he will manipulate everything to his favor of becoming "President for Life". Therefore, Thaksin will not loose, as he has previously stated. If he can't have it, then he will destroy it. God help the Thai people.

Thaksin is already so rich he is drowning in it. What is he going to do with billions more - use it for toilet paper?

The THB isn't as absorbent as Charmin, but it *is* cheaper!

I suspect he will end up as the richest body in the cemetery.

Can you imagine the vulture flock descending before the body is cold.

But I somehow doubt that money is the driving force.

Power is what he craves and we saw the consequenses of him being pushed out of power in 2010.

Should it happen again his reds are far more organized and well armed this time and as Jutaporn promises warns, as did Ko Tee before him, it will not just be riots in BKK but a full scale civil war with the armed reds against anyone they think may oppose them or soft targets that they might think would be to their advantage.

How safe would you be ?

[dude123]

This is exactly why Thaksin wants Thailand. ASEAN is going to change SE Asia and bring many opportunities to the represented countries here. Thaksin sees big money ahead, and he wants his hands on it. He could give a rats ass about improving Thailand as a whole. He is only thinking of how rich he'll become. I really believe he has planned this over the past 10 or more years. I also believe he will manipulate everything to his favor of becoming "President for Life". Therefore, Thaksin will not loose, as he has previously stated. If he can't have it, then he will destroy it. God help the Thai people.

Thaksin is already so rich he is drowning in it. What is he going to do with billions more - use it for toilet paper?

The THB isn't as absorbent as Charmin, but it *is* cheaper!

I suspect he will end up as the richest body in the cemetery.

Can you imagine the vulture flock descending before the body is cold.

But I somehow doubt that money is the driving force.

Power is what he craves and we saw the consequenses of him being pushed out of power in 2010.

Should it happen again his reds are far more organized and well armed this time and as Jutaporn promises warns, as did Ko Tee before him, it will not just be riots in BKK but a full scale civil war with the armed reds against anyone they think may oppose them or soft targets that they might think would be to their advantage.

How safe would you be ?

Wouldn't the military just step in, as it has done countless times in the past, before full scale civil war could occur? Just from reading here and there, it really seems that most Thai's are honestly fed up with both sides and would love to see a military coup to bring things back to normal again.

[phanangpete]

The arrest of Suthep would probably not prove in aiding a solution to Thai politics , he could become a martyr from behind bars and this could escalate into what the thai's deem as 'civil war'.

This is not Cuba and Suthep is not Castro ! The Reds , are mostly middle aged fat women, they gonna take up arms .

Does anyone , non thai, really believe they could orcastrate a organised arms struggle against , firstly against their own people (section of) and secondly the army ,who are ordered to protect the Monarchy and the State, what sides would they take if there was a total breakdown in law and order, not to mention the police .

Yes they are all buddists apart from the 1% who are Christian, but is it true Buddism ? India , Nepal have a different opinion about that, point here is that it would not be a Religious struggle as was in Northern Ireland, which you will all know was a bloody civil war for three decades over two religions.

I could go on , but really coul'nt be bothered, they are specialists in bullshit, thats about it and as someone said a country full of nutters.

Education, which they don't like is the key of their problems, and a true understanding of Budda and what his teachings really meant !