CRACKDOWN only affects SAME-DAY exit and return

[flyingdoc]

When was this tightening up meant to take effect from?

[gemguy]

If that is true it will make it all the more difficult for all those people who are doing the every 2 weeks visa run from Bangkok to the border of Cambodia.

Some of them have 2 years worth or more of 2 week border run stamps in their passports and no one has ever said boo to them...because it is a profitable money maker for various private and or government individuals who are involved facilitating the passport holders and allowing the game to continue.

Many of them are working here and this is the routine they have fallen into while the companies they work for are reluctant to do all the paper work and perform the effort needed to get the foreign employee(s) the proper visa status and the work permits.

Plus it is not cheap to arrange everything involved to obtain the proper and legal working status.

For most it is somewhat confusing and more effort than it is worth in their minds while everyone tells them ..no need to worry about this issue.

Most of the companies ( Thai owned Companies ) claim they will help if the labor department ever catches up with the foreign employee and comes down on them with all the regulations.

But usually they never have to deal with that problem as it seems the labor department is already over worked and under budgeted and under staffed so they are limited in their ability to seriously enforce the laws....or they do not care and {also.....who would of thought } use their positions to profit from all the government rules and regulations and laws that are , in effect a big part of the basis of all the illegal immigration violations.

You would think if the labor department was serious about going after the people who violate the work permit rules and regulations and everything that is meant to be complied with, then they would simply go to the border and intervene there at the border knowing full well that nearly all people who have many months or years worth of 2 week border run visa stamps in their foreign passport are more than likely not just tourists.

Sure enough if they change the rules then they find new ways to accommodate all those people who are in need of staying here and in need of a visa of some kind ...of some kind...so, if they are cut off from the 2 week visa run game then they will find another way while someone will accommodate them....while various private individuals and or government individuals will turn it into a lucrative and profitable affair.

That has always been the case anyhow and this visa run racket has always existed while it has grown all the more so over the years and decades.

Everyone has a connection so to speak while they gladly and willingly pass it on to others that are in need of visa arrangements.

Just ask and you will receive ...for a price of course.

[moe666]

Update- 1st November 2013: Citizen from USA, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan arriving without visa will get 30 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neighbouring country.

However there is no limit on how many times you can enter on these 30/15 days visa exemption stamps.

Can anyone provide any links for the new rules, if they have indeed been changed........

there is a couple of other threads about this, get your reading hat on and get caught up.

[mikecat]

No, not what you're saying.

Although this is a new and still developing situation the new rule is this:

• You enter Thailand on a visa exempt entry (right now it is only applicable to land entries) without getting a Thai visa.
• You later exit Thailand by a land entry.
• You stay in that other country for whatever period.
• Now you attempt to enter Thailand again by a land entry with another visa exempt entry (again without a Thai visa).
• Previously you would be allowed to enter with those back-to-back visa exempt entries.
• But now under the new rules you will NOT be allowed to get two back-to-back visa exempt entries as you could do before this new rule.

I am NOT an expert and this is a new situation, but as I interpret the new rule, it is the fact that you entered one time into Thailand on a visa free (30 day no visa) entry and then attempted to re-enter Thailand on another back-to-back visa free (30 day no visa) entry that is now not allowed.

As I understand it that is irrelevant of how long you stay out of Thailand.

It's that back-to-back visa free entry thing that is now not allowed .... at least by land entries at this time.

As I understand it, you will need at least a tourist visa for at least one of those back-to-back entries now with this new ruling.

But again I am NOT an expert, and this is a new situation just starting.to develop.

This is the way I read it too. However, it seems immigration at the borders are a law unto themselves and can interperate anway they see fit. If you have a 15 -30 day exempt at a land crossing and attempt to leave by land you will or should be told that you will not be allowed back in by land on a visa exempt. I believe that some people have been refused exit already and been told to leave by plane others have also been refused entry and been told to get a visa or fly in.

[sandyf]

Any thing you find on an embassy website is more than likely outdated.or flat wrong.

I have seen nothing official from immigration about the G7 country rule. But there are many people that have been getting 30 day entries from it and will continue to get them as long as they are within the new rules.

Are you suggesting that when they revised the documentation in January, that they only amended the bits that suited them.

I did not say or mean that. There is a good chance that they were unaware of it.

What they have on there is years old anyway there was nothing new.posted.

If there is nothing new then I should be able to get my visa in the same way I did last year and the many years previously.

Do I put ubonjoe says you have got it wrong.

[patriko]

What about if I got 2 passports from different country (from europe) ?

I use one passport for go outside and use the another one to reenter ?

[stiggy]

Easy enough for immigration to spot a border bouncer or a genuine returning round Asia tourist.

The latter normally has a case or back pack for starters, wais everyone they come across. Then when asked where they have been, ramble on excitedly about there past life changing spiritual trip.They will also not have years and years of previous stamps in passport.

The border bouncer normally speaks a bit of broken Thai, looks bored/familiar with it all, has no luggage and is constantly looking at there watch, they do have pages of return stamps in passports.

I really don't think genuine tourists, or backpackers will have a real problem.

[ALFREDO]

Let's say that I have just been on a border hop. I am now on a 30 day visa exempt entry.

I then go to immigration and extend by 60 days for reason of being married to a Thai lady.

Can I go out again? Technically speaking I have not had back to back entries.

That new stricter enforcement,

is maybe the reason, why the Thai Immigration officer, walked away, on 10.5. with my new temporary Passport at the Nong Khai border,

had one Land border entry already, from 2 weeks ago.

He came back after some minutes and said OK, very good!

Possibly because his supervisor saw my extension from Udon Thani Immigration for family stay,

living with my Thai children?

Anyway, I had already planned to get a Non Immigrant O Visa next time, is, soon, in 2 weeks.

-puchooay-

Possibly, we, in marriage or with Thai children-living together, taking care, that proofed by such extensions from Thai Immigration offices are except from to harsh lay out of the rule. Could be and would be logic. But TIT

Edited May 11, 2014 by ALFREDO

[thaibeachlovers]

Update- 1st November 2013: Citizen from USA, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan arriving without visa will get 30 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neighbouring country.

However there is no limit on how many times you can enter on these 30/15 days visa exemption stamps.

Can anyone provide any links for the new rules, if they have indeed been changed........

Immigration announcement here http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=readmore&id=1895&section=notice

A translation was kindly provide by member LaurenceN in the 'Final Crackdown for border runners...' thread post #122.

Here’s my own translation, retaining inherent ambiguities. Clearly, much will remain up to the discretion of the imm. officer. Quoted terms are in English in the original, with no Thai clarification:

Immigration Dept guidelines for permitting entry to targeted foreign nationals (e.g. Koreans)

1. Entry shall be refused in case of "Out-In" in the form of a "Visa run" in order to extend the right to remain in the Kingdom for purposes other than tourism.

2. In case of travel by air, through August 12, 2014, if found to be "Out-In" in the form of a "Visa run", entry should be permitted after advising traveler to request a proper Visa in conformity to the purpose for entering the Kingdom; enter "O-I" in the area of the stamp. Following August 12, 2014, if immigration officer determines an attempted entry to be "Out-In", the officer shall refuse entry.

Note: [Contacts for immigration officials with questions or problems]

<for purposes other than tourism.>

So they are making it up ( again ) at the border. Unless there is reason to prove that said tourist isn't a bona fide tourist, back to back entries should be allowed. Of course, once sufficient THAIS complain that they are losing money because of the new "interpretation" of the rule, we can expect a relaxation back to the previous set up.

I fail to understand how one man can change things that affect the livelihood of many thousands of his countrymen without a ruling by parliament, but it seems that in LOS it is all made up depending on how they feel at the time.

Saying it is to combat criminals is just such a stupid reason, given that the number of such among western tourists must be infitisimal compared to the total.

[Maestro]

The "ruling by parliament", the Immigration Act, has been there for a long time, since B.E. 2522, I believe. It is a stricter enforcement of that law that has brought about the recent changes.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thaibeachlovers]

Let's say that I have just been on a border hop. I am now on a 30 day visa exempt entry.

I then go to immigration and extend by 60 days for reason of being married to a Thai lady.

Can I go out again? Technically speaking I have not had back to back entries.

I think you can only extend a visa or an extension of stay. You cannot extend a "permit to stay 15 or 30 days".

If married to a Thai, why not get a proper visa at some Thai embassy, maybe even double entry. Keeps you hassle-free for 120 days (with one allowed border crossing after 60 days).

The rules were not relaxed last year, just 7 countries got 30 days, all others still 15 days.

I think when it was 15 days for all there were more real visas and less border runs.

Still it is no reason to complain: Ever tried to get into Schengen, UK, USA, without a visa? But Thailand has that: no visa required on forehand, when a tourist arrives he automatically gets a visa for the duration of his stay. Nice, isn't it?

< Ever tried to get into Schengen, UK, USA, without a visa?>

Different situation. Millions of illegals trying to get into said countries to take advantage of, amongst other things, welfare. Numbers of WESTERN illegals trying to stay in Thailand by working, a few thousand at most, none of which are entitled to any welfare. Thailand is in no danger of being overwhelmed by a flood of illegals as eg Britain is.

Thailand benefits far more from visa exempt tourism than the Euro or Britain would.

[thaibeachlovers]

The "ruling by parliament", the Immigration Act, has been there for a long time, since B.E. 2522, I believe. It is a stricter enforcement of that law that has brought about the recent changes.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

IMO it's a "reinterpretation" of the rule, if <for purposes other than tourism.> is the intent.

Personally, I see no problem with unlimited back to back visa exempt entry unless it is for the purposes of working. Provides a lot of employment and income for many Thais at a time of financial stringency. Given there is no welfare in LOS, who will help them out with their income severely reduced?

[bmanly]

There is only one question that needs to be answered by Thai Immigration clearly. That is "how long do you have to stay out of Thailand before another 15/30 stamp can be given"? When we have that answer then we can all make the necessary visa arrangements without confusion.

[slipperylobster]

Going by the back-to-back definition with no defined time out of the country, the other foreigners that will will be severely affected will be all those people living in Laos, Cambodia etc who make regular trips into Thailand for shopping etc. I am sure they won't be too happy to make visa applications to do a few hours shopping in Big C!

this; 1. Entry shall be refused in case of "Out-In" in the form of a "Visa run" in order to extend the right to remain in the Kingdom for purposes other than tourism.

i am sure if u hold a 1 year cambodian multi entry visa they will allow u unlimited visa exempt entries as long as your living in Cambodia and they can see that as your only remaining in thailand a day or two, same will hold for those residing in laos and only using Thailand to get a new 30 days visa for laos.

at the end of the day it will be whatever immigration, when u enter by land, wants to do

Agreed.

As it has been such a simple thing in the past, they just had this idea to tighten everything up. Might just be a reaction to pressure. Happens everywhere, I suppose. A problem is addressed, solutions are offered, and a heavy hand comes down. Later, it may ease up a bit. Perhaps somebody in Bangkok just felt it was time for some job security.

[slipperylobster]

There is only one question that needs to be answered by Thai Immigration clearly. That is "how long do you have to stay out of Thailand before another 15/30 stamp can be given"? When we have that answer then we can all make the necessary visa arrangements without confusion.

A question nobody can answer correctly. I have only heard..."It's up to the Official".

Some people stay an hour or so....because it takes that long to get through the lines. Others go in for a lunch in Vientiane for a few hours....or to pick up something special. I do not see that as a problem. Plenty of people live in Udon and NongKhai and just shoot across for something to do in Vientiane, for example. Nothing wrong with that....and if you get 30 days...so be it. Nobody was asking for 30 days...it was given freely. When they got to feeling you had too much leeway, they would warn you, and then you fly out back home or wherever. Not that bad.

I can live with it...as I am not a permanent fixture here (although I spend enough to make it look that way)

[tropo]

OP: "It only affects those who want to abuse the system by entering the neighboring country for 20 minutes and immediately returning to Thailand"

I find this terminology, "abuse the system" objectionable and condescending. If they allow a certain process, then making use of it is not "abuse".

Edited May 11, 2014 by tropo

[slipperylobster]

Might look at this... many countries only got 14 (some look at it as 15) days...while a few were upgraded to 30. Perhaps some whigners that were left out put in some complaints. Seems like many posters have issues with that, because those with only 14 days were using up their running quicker.....and finally got longer tourist visas....or (if living here permanently) moved their money in. I saw many inquiries as to Banking Issues this year (transferring large sums). Again, I am in never land....not considering myself a full time resident....many months outside Thailand..and no residence here nor there. This puts makes me look shady...but I am only leaving options open. Vacations (when you retire) tend to last months, instead of days. Never felt like a resident..... stay longer type perhaps. Still feel like a tourist...as I am treated as such. Reminds me of growing up one hour from the Canadian border. My dad would drive us kids in for a Sunday outing across the St Lawrence River...(Niagra Falls or sometimes Thousand Islands). The Canadians were very generous....not a big deal...going in and out without passports nor visas many, many times during the summers. Yeah..we smuggled in all the Champagne and fireworks we could...lol

Edited May 11, 2014 by slipperylobster

[slipperylobster]

How many days will you get at a Thai land border without a visa?

Starting November 1st, 2013, if you enter Thailand via a land border and you are a citizen of the United States, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Germany, Japan or Canada (the G7 countries), you will receive an automatic 30 days in Thailand without the need for any visa.

If you are a citizen of Brazil, Chile, Peru, South Korea, or Argentina, you will fare even better as you'll be stamped into Thailand for 90 days. A citizen from most other countries, however, and you will be worse off, with only a 15 day stamp put into your passport.

How many times can you get 15, 30 or 90 days at a Thai land border?

According to the Thailand Immigration Bureau, the number of times you can cross a land border into Thailand and be given 15, 30 or 90 days in Thailand is now unlimited.

That means, if you are an American or British citizen, for instance, and you decide to do a visa run every month while traveling around Thailand, you can do so indefinitely. Years, it now seems.

SO all this has been changed already?

Glad you posted that. We obviously "abused" the unlimited part. However, only a well trained dog will refrain from eating the fourth biscuit you lay out for him. In my case, I only had 3 back to backs until I went in and got a double entry. I was waiting on a Fiancee Visa that got shot down (no residence in the USA..only in the Philippines. Next visa they want me to give a residence certificate and proof of income (written on my visa) .. I have both...by the way. I a now wary of staying long time here (thanks to all the advice on ownership issues and having to move alot of money here during this political crises. An example how the innocent can get hurt as well.

Don't forget to close the door on your way out, and stop the whinging like it or lump it.

who said anyone was leaving.....or you just want to get in a cheap shot...makes your day?

[enuff said]

.

OP: "It only affects those who want to abuse the system by entering the neighboring country for 20 minutes and immediately returning to Thailand"

I find this terminology, "abuse the system" objectionable and condescending. If they allow a certain process, then making use of it is not "abuse".

Quibble all you want, the point is Thai imm. finds this behavior "objectionable and condescending" to the spirit of the "certain process", and are taking steps to stem the tide of piss-takers.

Can you blame them?

'nuff said

~

[ubonjoe]

What about if I got 2 passports from different country (from europe) ?

I use one passport for go outside and use the another one to reenter ?

Only if you do it by air. It is not possible at a border crossing.

Also immigration has to the ability check for other entries by doing a name/date of birth search not just by passport number.

[ubonjoe]

The "ruling by parliament", the Immigration Act, has been there for a long time, since B.E. 2522, I believe. It is a stricter enforcement of that law that has brought about the recent changes.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

IMO it's a "reinterpretation" of the rule, if <for purposes other than tourism.> is the intent.

Personally, I see no problem with unlimited back to back visa exempt entry unless it is for the purposes of working. Provides a lot of employment and income for many Thais at a time of financial stringency. Given there is no welfare in LOS, who will help them out with their income severely reduced?

The immigration act has no provision in it for visa exempt entries. That is allowed by a ministerial regulation in accordance with the act.

That regulation could be easily be cancelled and then everybody would need a visa to enter the country like it was before they started allowing it.

The problem is that people have abusing the privilege of being able to do visa exempt entries (people from many countries do not have this privilege).

Many doing it are working illegally or are involved in nefarious activities this is the primary for this change of the rules.

[mat999]

"But a large protion of them are only going for the day and come back, they do not stay permanently in Thailand and are not affected.."

Not so, I know many filipinos in Pattaya who do a regular one day border run. Some have been here many years and they will be affected as there is no difference between the Visa Free rules for them and for westerners. However, if they get a Thai tourist visa in say the Thai Embassy in Manila (and I presume other embassies) they do not pay a fee as part of an ASEAN agreement.

I would say NO Filipino here is on a tourist visa from the Manila Thai Consulate.

That's probably the "toughest" consulate in Asia to get a tourist visa from: Round-trip ticket, proof of finances (for Filipinos at least), hotel booking (I kid you not).

I know a Filipino on a double tourist visa. It was free and pretty easy to get, as was mine (British, not free). We didn't need proof of round trip, just a flight exiting Thailand (extra 1 k baht on a throwaway ticket). But Filipinos do now require a round trip ticket when exiting immigration at the airport (she got though without this time as it's a new rule). We did need hotel booking ( email was fine) and bank account statements. As long as you call them to check requirements the process is easy, just need to print a few things out.

I miss Immigration in the Philippines, just extend for 2k every 2 months for up to 16 or 18 months.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited May 12, 2014 by mat999

[enuff said]

What about if I got 2 passports from different country (from europe) ?

I use one passport for go outside and use the another one to reenter ?

Don't do it. It can really backfire and cause a big problem if you are not very careful.

I read a report of a man spending 4 days in the slammer charged w/ forged docs, perjury and suspected terrorist activities.

On CNN web site pretty sure. Oh, I think he tried to transfer one of those stick-on visas to his other PP.

'nuff said

~

Edited May 12, 2014 by 'nuff said

[tropo]

.

OP: "It only affects those who want to abuse the system by entering the neighboring country for 20 minutes and immediately returning to Thailand"

I find this terminology, "abuse the system" objectionable and condescending. If they allow a certain process, then making use of it is not "abuse".

Quibble all you want, the point is Thai imm. finds this behavior "objectionable and condescending" to the spirit of the "certain process", and are taking steps to stem the tide of piss-takers.

Can you blame them?

'nuff said

Allow me to "quibble" a little more....

The words "abuse of system" along with "get a real visa" usually come from people sitting pretty with yearly visas and pointing fingers. It has a judgemental feel to it and shouldn't be used here.

There are/were plenty of valid reasons for people to do border runs (20 mins and back again).

It's the people working illegally that Thai immigration want to catch, unfortunately they're going to catch or inconvenience many genuine tourists/travellers in the net.

I don't believe this new approach will weed out the illegal workers. They'll find others ways and overstaying will become a bigger problem. I would say that the majority of illegal workers are desperate for work and will take desperate measures to stay. The rest will find other visas and continue working illegally. They'll work on tourist visas, non-immigrant visas, education visas etc.

The Thai immigration, out the back door, black market visa trade is going to get a big shot in the arm after this. Now that IS "abuse" of power.

The ability to do quick border hops to extend the period of stay is probably one reason why Thailand is a popular tourist destination. People can just get on a plane and arrive for 30 days - then do quick border hops to extend.

Edited May 12, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

What about if I got 2 passports from different country (from europe) ?

I use one passport for go outside and use the another one to reenter ?

Don't do it. It can really backfire and cause a big problem if you are not very careful.

I read a report of a man spending 4 days in the slammer charged w/ forged docs, perjury and suspected terrorist activities.

On CNN web site pretty sure. Oh, I think he tried to transfer one of those stick-on visas to his other PP.

'nuff said

~

I don't believe you can change passports at land borders, but changing passports in the air can be useful and perfectly legitimate. I've done it before myself. I flew out for the express purpose of changing passports to the one I wanted to use for retirement.

[chainarong]

Don't wish to stuff up a good thing , but I was in Vientiane last long weekend ,on Tues those boarder runs completely took over the place ,beside the Philippine girls , the line went down past the restaurants , I heard later, something like over a thousand needed visa's , I then heard through the main Embassy early on Wed there would be a cut off point of four hundred , so some had to stay over, they were told to come back Thurs. To be honest I thought the way the Thai guys running the visa tours really thought they were a part of the embassy and owned the place.

[tropo]

"But a large protion of them are only going for the day and come back, they do not stay permanently in Thailand and are not affected.."

Not so, I know many filipinos in Pattaya who do a regular one day border run. Some have been here many years and they will be affected as there is no difference between the Visa Free rules for them and for westerners. However, if they get a Thai tourist visa in say the Thai Embassy in Manila (and I presume other embassies) they do not pay a fee as part of an ASEAN agreement.

I would say NO Filipino here is on a tourist visa from the Manila Thai Consulate.

That's probably the "toughest" consulate in Asia to get a tourist visa from: Round-trip ticket, proof of finances (for Filipinos at least), hotel booking (I kid you not).

I know a Filipino on a double tourist visa. It was free and pretty easy to get, as was mine (British, not free). We didn't need proof of round trip, just a flight exiting Thailand (extra 1 k baht on a throwaway ticket). But Filipinos do now require a round trip ticket when exiting immigration at the airport (she got though without this time as it's a new rule). We did need hotel booking ( email was fine) and bank account statements. As long as you call them to check requirements the process is easy, just need to print a few things out.

I miss Immigration in the Philippines, just extend for 2k every 2 months for up to 16 or 18 months.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The problem the Filipinos have is not entering Thailand, but exiting the Philippines. A Filipino without a return ticket will not be allowed to leave the Philippines. They also ask to see proof of funds when they exit the Philippines.

If this is a change, it much be fairly recent. I came in with a Filipino in October and they didn't ask to see anything at Suvarnabhumi. Leaving the Philippines was not easy though.

More to topic, there's a huge number of Filipinos who have been staying here on border runs. I wonder how they will cope now. I'm sure they will find a way.

[notmyself]

Wait until August when airline check in staff will have to decide if someone is going to be refused entry or not.

[Tomtomtom69]

Those who are "stranded" at the border "not allowed to exit Thailand"; it's not true.

They can exit, they just can't turn around and come right back in.

There are apparently border crossings into Myanmar where foreigners cannot proceed further into Myanmar. In other words, for foreigners, the only reason they would have for leaving Thailand at that point would be to turn around and come back into Thailand. So, at those borders people are not allowed to exit without a visa or re-entry permit because they would not be allowed to re-enter Thailand again on serial 30/15 day visa exemptions.

The reason they are not being allowed to exit is that they would end up in limbo because they could not re-enter Thailand and would be unable to travel on in Burma.

I am impressed that this makes sense to you. What if the individual wishes merely to visit the town in Myanmar? These towns are going to be really screwed (by both the Thai and Myanmar governments) if restrictions against further travel are not relaxed.

Not quite. Since August 28 last year as most savvy members would be aware (and there are dozens of posts on TV on this issue alone), foreigners with valid MYANMAR entry visas have been permitted to enter/exit via 4 Thai/Myanmar land border crossings. Arriving without a Myanmar visa and using the limited visas-on-arrival is the problem. Until Myanmar reforms and decides to introduce visas on arrival that can be used in the same way as visas obtained beforehand and/or they no longer allow anyone to arrive without a visa like most other countries that have a visa requirement and thus end the current dual system of visa - can go anywhere (except certain restricted areas) and no visa - can only travel within a limited border area and a limited period of time, then this problem will continue. But only for those individuals that take their chances and don't obtain a Myanmar visa prior to arrival. Those are the only ones who would get stuck.

There is also a way of visiting Tachilek (not sure if the other three checkpoints offer the same) without getting your passport stamped. It's called a VIP pass and costs 100 Baht on the Thai side. You get two copies of your passport made and that is used to obtain Myanmar stamps. However, you can only stay in Tachilek during the day (much like Thai nationals on border passes) and only within the border area. However, it's useful for a quick trip to Tachilek for temple hopping, shopping or general sightseeing.

[Maestro]

OP: "It only affects those who want to abuse the system by entering the neighboring country for 20 minutes and immediately returning to Thailand"

I find this terminology, "abuse the system" objectionable and condescending. If they allow a certain process, then making use of it is not "abuse".

In the context of this topic "abuse the system" means "use a visa-exempt permission to stay for a purpose other than tourism"

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app