Thai Senate deputy speaker vows to produce nation's exit strategy within a week

[siampolee]

londonthai post # 29

now deputy speaker said:

"Don't trap the country with the law. The problem has arisen from the shackle of the law."

now we know, what kind of politics he promotes - violence and intimidation against the great majority of population

Now deputy Shinwatra Red Shirt speakers Chalerm and Jutuporn said:

"Don't trap the country with the law. The problem has arisen from the shackle of the law."

now we know, what kind of politics, Shinwatra manipulated Chalerm and Jutuporn and the Red Shirts promote, violence and intimidation against the great majority of population;;

[bigbamboo]

So the nation's exit strategy will be announced next week. Seems a bit drastic but I wonder they're taking us..... Burma, Laos, Dubai?

And don't forget, last one out switch off the lights.

[siampolee]

bigbamboo post # 32.

So the nation's exit strategy will be announced next week. Seems a bit drastic but I wonder they're taking us..... Burma, Laos, Dubai?

And don't forget, last one out switch off the lights.

Clacton has rather a lot going for it bigbamboo.

[Eric Loh]

I never have faith in appointed senators and know they are placed there for a reason. However they may have something here that may break the impasse. Suthep know he is well beatened in all his final battle attempts. He know he will never gets the backing of the military, courts and independent agencies for an interim PM under Section 7. He is looking for a face saving exit and I believed part of his discussion with the Senators may have touched on this. Will wait and see.

[Estrada]

The Senate currently has NO power, it's last session ended on Saturday and will not reconvene until after the election, until the lower house returns..the discussions at the Senate yesterday were 'informal' sessions AND it was only attended by about 80, mostly appointed senators.. now Suthep thinks they can appoint a PM, they couldn't even do that if it were a real senate session.

There is such a thing as the force of law.. the Senate have these little hypothetical sessions, but CAPO will not allow any of these shenanigans from ever coming to .. yesterday EVEN THE MILITARY came out and said it was against appointing a PM using article 7.

A close Thai friend who is a independently elected Senator and long time Democrat, also told me that this extraordinary session has no legal status. Many Senators also doubt that they will receive salaries and expenses because of this.

As for Suthep, he is still playing the game "Final Fantasy - Final Battle"

[wandasloan]

Yesterday it was in the paper that the military came out against an appointed PM from the Senate, I don't know what you mean by the 'military using section 7'

Agreed.

but it doesn't matter,

It matters very, very much. If everyone involved agrees to go forward in a certain manner, then it matters whether they will stick within the system or use Section 7 to paper over their differences and reach an accord that they all agree is peaceful and in everyone's interest.

If everyone does NOT agree, and one power decides to invoke Section 7 over the objections of another power or side or group, there will be quite a lot of "heck" to pay all around as the aggrieved side seeks some payback.

If you're not aware of Section 7, you're not too aware of what's going on in politics. The army has simply chosen again not to be a player. But there are many other players and quite a few options available to them. Section 7 looms over almost all of them in one way or another.

One other thing. The army (not the military) can not only intervene for Pheu Thai. It can intervene against the government for Suthep or the Senate or other rabble. Or, as in 2006 and almost all other coups, it can intervene for its own selfish, grubby, grabby, money-hungry, power-trip reasons aimed at self-aggrandisement and damn the nation. Never say "never", especially in this particular case, and especially with the army. Personally, I don't think they have the guts, but never say "never".

A close Thai friend who is a independently elected Senator and long time Democrat, also told me that this extraordinary session has no legal status. Many Senators also doubt that they will receive salaries and expenses because of this.

That is what all the newspapers, radio and TV stations told all the rest of us, only they told us last Friday.

.

Edited May 13, 2014 by wandasloan

[In Town]

A fairly good pointer to why no sane person living in the real world would agree to a half appointed senate.

So all Canadians with their appointed senate & Britain with their House of Lords are all insane?

Clearly from the article they are seeking a compromise solution so why not give them some credit.

yes

[thurien]

"national exit strategy" - exiting to where? to Laos, to Cambodia or else? if exiting: will all of the nation go or only part of it?

[rickirs]

Just for the sake of argument, if the constituional electoral process is proposed to be bypassed in order to install a new government, however temporary or not, why do the Thailand people have to be disenfranchised? Such action would be no less a result than with a military coup.

The Constitution provides for public referendums. If the Senate and Independent agencies do not have the will to have a public election of parliament, ie., because of the alleged unresolvable political conflict, can they find the will to determine the people's reception to an appointed government under Sec. 7 before unilaterally making their own decisions without electoral concensus? While I don't agree with substituting the elections with a referendum, if that is a strong constitutional consideration for overcoming the political impass, respect for the Thai people should not be compromised.

[bigbamboo]

bigbamboo post # 32.

So the nation's exit strategy will be announced next week. Seems a bit drastic but I wonder they're taking us..... Burma, Laos, Dubai?

And don't forget, last one out switch off the lights.

Clacton has rather a lot going for it bigbamboo.

I heard Clacton's biggest attraction was the road that leads out of it.

[diehard60]

The only suitable exit pland is the only one that suthep would agree too. Any others and he would do more damage to the counrty then he has already. A talk behind closed doors = you do what i say or I will have my bots put a wippin on you.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Just for the sake of argument, if the constituional electoral process is proposed to be bypassed in order to install a new government, however temporary or not, why do the Thailand people have to be disenfranchised? Such action would be no less a result than with a military coup.

The Constitution provides for public referendums. If the Senate and Independent agencies do not have the will to have a public election of parliament, ie., because of the alleged unresolvable political conflict, can they find the will to determine the people's reception to an appointed government under Sec. 7 before unilaterally making their own decisions without electoral concensus? While I don't agree with substituting the elections with a referendum, if that is a strong constitutional consideration for overcoming the political impass, respect for the Thai people should not be compromised.

A referendum is just people going to the polls, and stuffing in ballot papers, very similar to the Senate vote, or the Feb 2nd election.

If they can have a referendum, they can have a vote. We know they can have a vote because they had the Senate vote. The EC specifically refused to hold the election of the missing provinces on the same day as the Senate vote. Even then the extra by-elections they held went without incident.

The only place they've managed to disrupt the vote is in the South, and then it was really the wilfull inaction of the EC that did most of the work. Declining help, then closing registration centers at the minimum days. Refusing to even file a police complaint, which would have let the police clear the post office.

With the military backing, it would be extremely difficult for them to block it again.

Basically they know they'll lose the election, very very very badly.

They know they can hold an election, Suthep has failed. What now?

Red are massing, they need to come up with something, and desperately trying to make that something different from an election.

Yet the obvious solution is for them to throw Suthep away, throw Abhisit away, go into elections. Keep their hold on the Independent agencies, let the Senate be made electable and let a slow slow transition to a neutral government happen.

We all live a long and happy life in a stable democracy that's then the center of ASEAN.

[added] : it's funny, we were headed in 2013 for 4.5% growth in GDP, they complained about 2% GDP extra debt, panicking that we'd be in debt up to our eyeballs, yet we had growth more than twice the debt, in other words our debts were dropping as a percentage of our wealth.

We were getting less in debt, because the spending was creating growth, which was far bigger than the debt. More GDP, means more tax revenue, means more ability to borrow and so on. Sure it's bigger debt in total cash value, but less debt in terms of our ability to carry debt.

So we've gone from 69% of GDP debt left by the coup generals to 45% of GDP in 2013 and it was heading for the low forties.

And they completely messed it up, trying to save Thailand. So now we have a tanking economy, the GDP going negative, and nobody wants to work for a future that is owned by someone else.

/rant

Edited May 13, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[BlueNoseCodger]

The only suitable exit pland is the only one that suthep would agree too. Any others and he would do more damage to the counrty then he has already. A talk behind closed doors = you do what i say or I will have my bots put a wippin on you.

I disagree, Suthep can be thrown away now.

[Piichai]

The Senate currently has NO power, it's last session ended on Saturday and will not reconvene until after the election, until the lower house returns..the discussions at the Senate yesterday were 'informal' sessions AND it was only attended by about 80, mostly appointed senators.. now Suthep thinks they can appoint a PM, they couldn't even do that if it were a real senate session.

There is such a thing as the force of law.. the Senate have these little hypothetical sessions, but CAPO will not allow any of these shenanigans from ever coming to .. yesterday EVEN THE MILITARY came out and said it was against appointing a PM using article 7.

A close Thai friend who is a independently elected Senator and long time Democrat, also told me that this extraordinary session has no legal status. Many Senators also doubt that they will receive salaries and expenses because of this.

As for Suthep, he is still playing the game "Final Fantasy - Final Battle"

Unlike the Reds, not everyone in the world does things for money. Some are actually trying to do the right thing for Thailand.

[rebelplatoon]

It s an 'exit strategy' by no means the best solution. But there is a stalemate right now. If by discussion with all concerned parties (that is not Suthep nor Jatuporn) they could find a temporary solution, they could agree upon, please do! Then change electoral laws and have elections ASAP.

I do think he s trying to humor Suthep as he would have done Jatuporn, had he 'come by' meanwhile going ahead with trying to find a solution. I DO hope everyone wants a solution?

[BlueNoseCodger]

It s an 'exit strategy' by no means the best solution. But there is a stalemate right now. If by discussion with all concerned parties (that is not Suthep nor Jatuporn) they could find a temporary solution, they could agree upon, please do! Then change electoral laws and have elections ASAP.

I do think he s trying to humor Suthep as he would have done Jatuporn, had he 'come by' meanwhile going ahead with trying to find a solution. I DO hope everyone wants a solution?

There is no stalemate, just a few corrupt officials trying to save face after making a dumb choice of backing Suthep. They just need to convince themselves that the win here, is to let the democracy win. Everything will be fine.

The future is bright for Thailand. No worries be happy.

[dinooz]

I agree a referendum is the most sensible way out,a simple "reforms first" vote or elections first" vote.

An intensive television coverage of the reform roadmap,televised debate on the pros and cons say for 2 weeks.

Polling setup where the registered voters can vote freely in any polling station anywhere over a period of a few days.

Emphasize the importance of the vote to the electorate as it will determine the future of their nation.

I think all parties would agree apart from PTP as the deck would not be loaded in their favour with constituencies,proporational votes and seats garnered, it would be a one vote one person and a true indication of what the majority of Thai population wants.

PTP harp on about elections but condemn an elected local governor and would not accept a referendum as a way out of this bitter conflict.

[GreasyFingers]

He stressed that the Senate would attempt to produce a suitable exit strategy within a week, and if the proposed plan is being denied then the Senate would return its focus to the legislative procedure.

Right, let me guess, you'll rename "Neutral Prime Minister" to be "Reconciliation Prime Minister" and propose replacing the elected government with a new PM chosen by you.

I'm guessing your Prime Minister will be Cretaceous, erm no Jurrassic, oh, I don't know, he'll be from the middle to late Paleolithic period.

The Senate cannot meet without the governments approval, and you sir, are not Senate Speaker until the elected government sends your name in, and it won't do that because you broke the limits on the senate session when you decided to hold a vote on whether you should be speaker.

So the senate won't return to focus on legislative procedure, until after we have an election and there's an elected house in session.

Go away you tiresome little puppet, the government is busy running the country.

Running the country where? Maybe into the ground

[Dr Bruce]

A fairly good pointer to why no sane person living in the real world would agree to a half appointed senate.

So all Canadians with their appointed senate & Britain with their House of Lords are all insane?

Clearly from the article they are seeking a compromise solution so why not give them some credit.

You cannot compare the powers of The House of Lords to the Powers of the Senate.

The Parliament acts of 1911 and 1949 coupled with the House of Lords act in 1999 have heavily consticted the power of the Lords and it is expected that the next Labour Government, should Britain be unlucky, will pass laws to make the Lords completely elected.

In Canada the 6 Senators from Alberta are elected and this will start in Sasakuan in the next national elections. The Canadian Senate is the more powerful of the 2, but could never appoint a Prime Minister to replace the one elected by the leading party in the commons.

[Morch]

There has to be a start line. A catalyst for discussion and resultant action.Time has come for stability to be returned and corruption in all its disguises to be tackled

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Lao-tzu

A thousand miles can lead so many ways

Just to know who is driving

What a help it would be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_J-hmyAS6c

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/moodyblues/imjustasingerinarockandrollband.html

Oddly, some other relevant lines in that song...

[h90]

Unfortunately the two sides will never agree. They don't agree when parliament is in session and they won't agree now. Even when one party is definitely correct the other party will disagree just to disagree.

Thaksin wants the absolute power at any costs.

Suthep wants the Shinawatras out at any costs.

there is no middle ground....They simply can't agree.

[pkspeaker]

I am aware of section 7, it simply says:

Whenever no provision under this Constitution is applicable to any case, it shall be decided in accordance with the constitutional practice in the democratic regime with King of Head of State

that can mean anything and the senate's shenanagens begs the question..why does the senate get to interprit something that vague to mean that they name a PM with full powers? Since all senate sessions are over and they cannot re-convene until after the new elected parliament is sworn in, the senators are stuck between governments just like all those MPs, many of whom are waiting to be re-elected, they can't do anything, some ex-MPs likly to win their seats back could just as easily have an 'informal session' and "decide" who the 'real' caretaker PM is..

There is a government in place, it's not going anywhere w/o an election no matter what the 'some' senators and 'some' judges scribble while occupying the waiting room at government house. There is no way that the Yingluck government would ever hand power over to these people, there is no court that could legalize this. and at this point military intervention is not possible, it wouldn't be a quick 2006 thing, if they intervened on the side of Suthep, the country would plunge into civil war.

Yesterday it was in the paper that the military came out against an appointed PM from the Senate, I don't know what you mean by the 'military using section 7'

Agreed.

but it doesn't matter,

It matters very, very much. If everyone involved agrees to go forward in a certain manner, then it matters whether they will stick within the system or use Section 7 to paper over their differences and reach an accord that they all agree is peaceful and in everyone's interest.

If everyone does NOT agree, and one power decides to invoke Section 7 over the objections of another power or side or group, there will be quite a lot of "heck" to pay all around as the aggrieved side seeks some payback.

If you're not aware of Section 7, you're not too aware of what's going on in politics. The army has simply chosen again not to be a player. But there are many other players and quite a few options available to them. Section 7 looms over almost all of them in one way or another.

One other thing. The army (not the military) can not only intervene for Pheu Thai. It can intervene against the government for Suthep or the Senate or other rabble. Or, as in 2006 and almost all other coups, it can intervene for its own selfish, grubby, grabby, money-hungry, power-trip reasons aimed at self-aggrandisement and damn the nation. Never say "never", especially in this particular case, and especially with the army. Personally, I don't think they have the guts, but never say "never".

A close Thai friend who is a independently elected Senator and long time Democrat, also told me that this extraordinary session has no legal status. Many Senators also doubt that they will receive salaries and expenses because of this.

That is what all the newspapers, radio and TV stations told all the rest of us, only they told us last Friday.

.

Edited May 13, 2014 by pkspeaker

[sumtingwong]

There appears to already be a PM in the shadows.

In Thailand, Power Comes With Help From Skype

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?_r=0

[ Millions of people across the globe have cut the tethers to their offices, working remotely from home, airport lounges or just about anywhere they can get an Internet connection. But the political party governing Thailand has taken telecommuting into an altogether different realm.

For the past year and a half, by the party’s own admission, the most important political decisions in this country of 65 million people have been made from abroad, by a former prime minister who has been in self-imposed exile since 2008 to escape corruption charges. ]

[wandasloan]

I am aware of section 7, it simply says:

Whenever no provision under this Constitution is applicable to any case, it shall be decided in accordance with the constitutional practice in the democratic regime with King of Head of State

that can mean anything and the senate's shenanagens begs the question..why does the senate get to interprit something that vague to mean that they name a PM with full powers? Since all senate sessions are over and they cannot re-convene until after the new elected parliament is sworn in, the senators are stuck between governments just like all those MPs, many of whom are waiting to be re-elected, they can't do anything, some ex-MPs likly to win their seats back could just as easily have an 'informal session' and "decide" who the 'real' caretaker PM is..

Quite. But turn it around. If not the Senate, who?

In a proper system, the Constitutional Court might help but that's out of the question. So. If not the Senate, who would get to interpret it?

There are grazillions of Thai laws with this sort of phrase tacked on, it's a familiar dilemma. In normal day-to-day governance, the answer is that "anyone can interpret it" since it means all things.

.

[MaxLee]

The Senate, one of Thailand's most greedy leechers...

[DrTuner]

In investment, exit strategy means cashing in and getting out of Dodge. Ominous.

[Valentine]

The Senate, one of Thailand's most greedy leechers...

The greedy leeches are all through society including MPs, bureaucrats. It would be great to find a neutral PM who is not tainted. Anand was one back in the 90s.