Most gun-loving: Americans vs Thais

[lvr181]

Americans believe in an outdated "right" to guns and Thais have them because they can. Simple really!

[landslide]

Americans are required to own firearms by law--its actually in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something.

Can our Thai "brothers-in-arms" make that claim?

BTW, only 25 posts and you are already fishing the big waters with a topic like this.

I see a bright future ahead ;-)

I am an American, and proud of it. I have never owned a gun, and don't plan to. I do not have a problem with law-abiding citizens owning guns. I guess based on your uninformed comment, I have, and will continue, to break the law. People shouldn't comment on things they know nothing about.

[thailiketoo]

Americans believe in an outdated "right" to guns and Thais have them because they can. Simple really!

1. Can all Americans own guns? No.

2. Can all Americans carry guns? No.

3. If you have a certificate to carry in one State or city does that apply to all cities in the USA? No.

4. Does the above poster have even a clue about what he is writing? No.

5. Will anything be learned about guns by reading this thread? No.

6. How many years would it take an American Lawyer to get up to date on the status of gun laws in the USA? Years.

7. How many have read, "NRA v. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and NRA v. McCraw." No one.

They are only 300 or so pages each. Go ahead punk, read one and make my day.

Edited May 15, 2014 by thailiketoo

[tutone]

No doubt that Americans are the most "gun loving" folks on the planet. I'm a U.S. citizen living in Thailand now. At one time I had 2 pistols, 2 rifles, and 2 shotguns. The rifles and shotguns were part of the family tradition, hand me downs. Most of the folks I know in America have at least one gun. I never "loved" my guns, they were just part of my upbringing, part of the culture, so to speak. I've always been concerned about how many guns there are in the U.S. that are in the wrong hands and even as a gun owner I wanted more "gun control." There's a lot of firearms that just don't belong in the posession of anyone. What is the reason for having a machine gun? Their only purpose is to kill people. When I moved here, I couldn't leave my guns with my son, because he has some anger issues, so I sold them to someone who I felt was responsible enough to have them. A couple of very fine heirloom firearms that could have stayed in my family are gone because I could not bear the thought that they might do harm.

The idea that the 2nd Amendment was intended to allow the citizens to protect themselves from a tyrannical government may have held true back then, but it has no validity now. The last time I looked the government has everybody outgunned. Yes, guns were the tools that we used to gain our freedom and grow our nation, but they were only some of the tools, not all of the tools. That day has passed.

I am absolutely in favor of private gun ownership, it's the American way. I am absolutely in favor of gun control, it should also be part of the American way.

As an American, I think we all should own and know how to safely use weapons. When I moved to Thailand 10 years ago I had. These were acquired over 3 generations, now 4 with my son.

22 cal pistol

22 cal rifle

38 cal pistol

357 cal pistol

6.5 mm rifle

35 cal rifle

30-30 rifle

410 ga shotgun single shot

20 ga shotgun bolt action

16 ga shotgun bolt action

12 ga shotgun pump

12 ga shotgun semi auto

12 ga shotgun double barrel

The only one of these that I had bought was the 357 S&W pistol. The others were from my grandmother, she kept the 38 pistol in her hand bag at all time, grandfather, father and brothers. I gave them all to my son when I moved. As someone else has said, these were the tools we used to gain our freedom.

[malt25]

First off, I am an American, who has been living in Thailand for 9 years. I served in the US Military and have owned 1 firearm, which I have only used for shooting at targets, never at anything living.

Your interpretation of the Second Amendment of the Constitution is irrelevant. The courts have ruled that basically everyone is entitled to own a firearm, and the courts are the ones who matters. What you deem "fact" is clearly fiction.

As it has been determined to be one of our rights, why should anyone stand idly by and allow a right to be taken away? Would you do the same for any of your other rights in your home country, just sit there and allow it to be taken?

As many have said, mainly with a derogatory connotation, America has a "gun culture". Maybe you agree with it, maybe you don't. Why the hatred, calling us all stupid rednecks? Thailand has a "ghost" culture, a "sin sod" culture, again so many call them stupid. Germany has a "beer and sausage" culture, UK has a "soccer hooligan" culture, Australia has an "outback" culture. That doesn't define the entire population.

A little tip: American's don't care about your opinion, Thai's don't care about your opinion, Germans, Brits, and Australians don't care about your opinion. I was born and raised in Boston, and walked daily past places where the Brits committed atrocities in the name of the King. I lived where the American Government was born, and Brits were fought off with guns and determination. If you aren't part of that, it is normal that you wouldn't understand how ingrained it is into American culture, so don't claim to be some authority on the subject or claim to know any better. Americans demand the ability to protect themselves in the way they see fit, not to blindly give all control to someone else. We accept that more guns equal more gun-related violence, and if you don't like it, don't go there. Same as if you don't like Thai culture, don't come here. You won't be missed.

Hey there pardner, holster them thar six guns & get dawn off ya hoss. Pull up a log & set a while. Get that there burr out from under ya saddle blanket. Have a swig on this here jug... you need to loosen up a little.

I don't recall trying to offend them thar stars & stripes. I don't recall offering an opinion, just stating my understanding of your somewhat extended 2nd amendment.

Just for the record, I'm a gun owner. Well actually rifle owner, I am aware of the difference, are you ?

You get out of bed on the wrong side this mornin or you get a knock back this morning ? WOW, I'd hate to see ya attitude if someone really offended you. This is a forum.. you know... exchange of ideas & opinions. Sometimes we're right & sometimes we're not. Not the first time I've been wrong.... but hey...settle !!! actually I don't know if I'm that far off the mark re the 2nd amendment.... but shit, let's never go there again.

So, wattle it be... dueling pistols at 10 paces at dawn or you just wanna lynch me here & now ? Now that you've hopefully calmed down, just a little, care to enlighten us all on what exactly hit the nerve ? There must be some underlying issue.

Oh, I'm an Aussie. Thick skinned, warped sense of humor. Somewhat patriotic, to football & a few other sports. Don't get overly upset if someone offends our politicians & culture. Spose you could say if I was anymore laid back I'd fall over.

Try a larger size in underpants... a bit more freedom down there just might relieve some pressure & at the same time help ya attitude.

Sorry Mr. Moderator, if I've crossed the line I guess you'll delete this.... sorry.

[ryanmacl]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Americans believe in an outdated "right" to guns and Thais have them because they can. Simple really!

What exactly is outdated about the American right to bear arms? Is freedom of speech also outdated? The right to a speedy trial? The right to be secure in your person against unreasonable search and seizure? What good are rights without a means to defend those rights?

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

Way to generalize. Its funny how people can be protective of their rights when people try to take them away. I don't see it as anything sexual, I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you.

Nothing like centuries old Constitutions combined with 21st century technology.

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You do know they had guns when they wrote the constitution, right?

[thailiketoo]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

You do know John Lennon was not actually an American? And he was shot in NYC?

[lvr181]

Americans believe in an outdated "right" to guns and Thais have them because they can. Simple really!

1. Can all Americans own guns? No.

2. Can all Americans carry guns? No.

3. If you have a certificate to carry in one State or city does that apply to all cities in the USA? No.

4. Does the above poster have even a clue about what he is writing? No.

5. Will anything be learned about guns by reading this thread? No.

6. How many years would it take an American Lawyer to get up to date on the status of gun laws in the USA? Years.

7. How many have read, "NRA v. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and NRA v. McCraw." No one.

They are only 300 or so pages each. Go ahead punk, read one and make my day.

Love ur sense of humour.

[RigPig]

Well this has been an interesting an civil topic, well done!!! Varied views as always but most are legit comments.

First I think a lot of people would be amazed at how many Thai men have and usually carry a gun and yes they are always illegal probably due to the prohibitive cost of obtaining a legal one. Most I have seen are cheap Chinese weapons, and I have seen quite a few, and not only owned by people I know well, it is a status symbol. They are proud of them.

To the person who thinks there is no gun culture in Australia, well I guess it depends where you live, I saw many fire arms go under ground (literally, you couldn't buy large PVC pipe for love or money) when the Federal Government changed the gun laws. Yes I came from a rural back ground.

I have seen copies of original Japanese documents from the 2nd World War, where they landed troops in the far North and (according to the translation) had inferences along the lines of invading Australia would not be easy as the majority of the population were well armed and knew how to use their weapons.

The problem in Thailand (IMO) is that when someone "looses face" shooting someone is the same as throwing a rock, there is no thought process when anger is around.

Guns, good, bad, necessary or not are around. Controlling them (and the only way to do that is make them legal and accessible) is our only hope (IMO). Education is also a VERY big thing.

Thailand or the States as the OP asked, there are too many illegal and home made weapons in this country to be sure, but I would follow the example set by the States personally. Would you break into someones house knowing he had a .357 Magnum revolver inside? It is a bit like an insurance policy, you hope you never need to use it but are damn glad you had it when you did need it!!!

IMO

Just a P.S. I don't EVER remember grenades being used at a political rally in the States or Australia......... (correct me if Iam wrong)

Edited May 15, 2014 by RigPig

[ryanmacl]

First off, I am an American, who has been living in Thailand for 9 years. I served in the US Military and have owned 1 firearm, which I have only used for shooting at targets, never at anything living.

Your interpretation of the Second Amendment of the Constitution is irrelevant. The courts have ruled that basically everyone is entitled to own a firearm, and the courts are the ones who matters. What you deem "fact" is clearly fiction.

As it has been determined to be one of our rights, why should anyone stand idly by and allow a right to be taken away? Would you do the same for any of your other rights in your home country, just sit there and allow it to be taken?

As many have said, mainly with a derogatory connotation, America has a "gun culture". Maybe you agree with it, maybe you don't. Why the hatred, calling us all stupid rednecks? Thailand has a "ghost" culture, a "sin sod" culture, again so many call them stupid. Germany has a "beer and sausage" culture, UK has a "soccer hooligan" culture, Australia has an "outback" culture. That doesn't define the entire population.

A little tip: American's don't care about your opinion, Thai's don't care about your opinion, Germans, Brits, and Australians don't care about your opinion. I was born and raised in Boston, and walked daily past places where the Brits committed atrocities in the name of the King. I lived where the American Government was born, and Brits were fought off with guns and determination. If you aren't part of that, it is normal that you wouldn't understand how ingrained it is into American culture, so don't claim to be some authority on the subject or claim to know any better. Americans demand the ability to protect themselves in the way they see fit, not to blindly give all control to someone else. We accept that more guns equal more gun-related violence, and if you don't like it, don't go there. Same as if you don't like Thai culture, don't come here. You won't be missed.

Hey there pardner, holster them thar six guns & get dawn off ya hoss. Pull up a log & set a while. Get that there burr out from under ya saddle blanket. Have a swig on this here jug... you need to loosen up a little.

I don't recall trying to offend them thar stars & stripes. I don't recall offering an opinion, just stating my understanding of your somewhat extended 2nd amendment.

Just for the record, I'm a gun owner. Well actually rifle owner, I am aware of the difference, are you ?

You get out of bed on the wrong side this mornin or you get a knock back this morning ? WOW, I'd hate to see ya attitude if someone really offended you. This is a forum.. you know... exchange of ideas & opinions. Sometimes we're right & sometimes we're not. Not the first time I've been wrong.... but hey...settle !!! actually I don't know if I'm that far off the mark re the 2nd amendment.... but shit, let's never go there again.

So, wattle it be... dueling pistols at 10 paces at dawn or you just wanna lynch me here & now ? Now that you've hopefully calmed down, just a little, care to enlighten us all on what exactly hit the nerve ? There must be some underlying issue.

Oh, I'm an Aussie. Thick skinned, warped sense of humor. Somewhat patriotic, to football & a few other sports. Don't get overly upset if someone offends our politicians & culture. Spose you could say if I was anymore laid back I'd fall over.

Try a larger size in underpants... a bit more freedom down there just might relieve some pressure & at the same time help ya attitude.

Sorry Mr. Moderator, if I've crossed the line I guess you'll delete this.... sorry.

The comment wasn't directed towards you, nor am I upset about anything anyone wrote. You'll notice I didn't quote you. It probably came off a bit more passionately than I intended, but that is just how I write. The comment was more to make people understand where Americans are coming from. There are quite a few armchair Generals here who love to preach down from up on high to us violent, ignorant Americans, yet have never bothered to look at any situation from a viewpoint other than their own.

Quite a few barbs in there for someone so thick skinned and laid back, by the way.

[ryanmacl]

Guns, good, bad, necessary or not are around. Controlling them (and the only way to do that is make them legal and accessible) is our only hope (IMO). Education is also a VERY big thing.

This.

[Docno]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

Way to generalize. Its funny how people can be protective of their rights when people try to take them away. I don't see it as anything sexual, I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you.

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

[thailiketoo]

The comment wasn't directed towards you, nor am I upset about anything anyone wrote. You'll notice I didn't quote you. It probably came off a bit more passionately than I intended, but that is just how I write. The comment was more to make people understand where Americans are coming from. There are quite a few armchair Generals here who love to preach down from up on high to us violent, ignorant Americans, yet have never bothered to look at any situation from a viewpoint other than their own.

Quite a few barbs in there for someone so thick skinned and laid back, by the way.

I had a talk with Obama and he said it's about time Australia started buying it's own guns and jets and submarines.

[Docno]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

You do know John Lennon was not actually an American? And he was shot in NYC?

You do know that John Lennon was referring to a slogan from an NRA advert on the cover of an American gun magazine? He was quite disturbed that a recently fired gun might be a source of happiness to someone (i.e., an American).

[thailiketoo]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

Way to generalize. Its funny how people can be protective of their rights when people try to take them away. I don't see it as anything sexual, I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you.

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

You wrote, "For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course)." Darned if I can figure out what you mean. I know not all is not 100% but what percent did you mean by, "Not all of them?"

[ClutchClark]

I love guns, loved them in the US, love them in Thailand.

But there is a big difference between gun culture in the two countries.

US, lots of rifles, most guns kept in the home (unloaded) or the car (loaded), very few carrying.

Thailand, mainly handguns, most guns kept on the person (loaded), usually in a belly bag, never seen so many men carrying.

Just curious but how long since you have been back to US?

Alot of concealed carry nowadays...its quite the rage.

So many of them fantasizing they can be a hero in some robbery attempt...all want to pretend they are cops.

Slightly different scenario but a guy in montana had his garage broken into twice by teenagers and got pissed so he set a trap. He left the garage door open with a purse in plain site. He wired in motion detectors and a CCTV. He told his barber he wanted to teach those kids a lesson.

A kid walked into the garage one night, the homeowner fired four rounds from his shotgun into the garage, striking the kid twice and killing him. It was a German exchange student.

A human life taken for nothing. Thats gun culture in the US today.

Its not like it was when I was a kid growing up when we could bring our shiotgun to gradeschool in the morning and leave it in the principals office to hunt pheasants on the way home.

I have no idea about the legality of this "trap" but in all honesty I don't think it is fair to give the impression the exchange student was right (by saying "a life taken for nothing"). Whether it was an exchange student, a homeless man, or wealthy individual; they don't have any right to trespass on private property regardless of whether there is a pile of gold or not waiting to stolen. In the end the homeowner may get charged with a crime, but then again, maybe not - what's known for sure is that nobody should be trespassing on anybody's private property.

And the question I have for you is, "Is your weed wacker really more important than a human life?" I have often heard your defense in america today amongst my gun enthusiast friends. They are so obsessed in this sense of protect the property that they have completely perverted American Christian values on the value of a human life. BTW, the person who set this deadly trap is awaiting trial for murder, he will likely get life in prison.

[thailiketoo]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

You do know John Lennon was not actually an American? And he was shot in NYC?

You do know that John Lennon was referring to a slogan from an NRA advert on the cover of an American gun magazine? He was quite disturbed that a recently fired gun might be a source of happiness to someone (i.e., an American).

A popular theory is that Lennon meant for this to be a drug metaphor for doing heroin:

-"Needing a fix"

-"Jump the gun" meaning to cook it up

-"Bang, Bang, SHOOT, SHOOT"

-"When I hold you in my arm, nobody can do me no harm" - heroin addicts tell how when you're on it, nothing can do you no harm and Lennon's overall nature seem to point to this.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=154

[sustento]

Mymy there are some VERY big willies on display here

[ClutchClark]

Americans are required to own firearms by law--its actually in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something.

Can our Thai "brothers-in-arms" make that claim?

BTW, only 25 posts and you are already fishing the big waters with a topic like this.

I see a bright future ahead ;-)

Not so, ClutchClark. Americans are not required by law to own firearms--although some municipalities have proposed such a law. However, Americans are guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms under the 2nd amendment to our Constitution.

You see Clark, it's like this. A society can only advance as quickly as it slowest and dumbest people. This natural selection is far too time-consuming for a society to become the hegemon. As we all know, excessive availability of guns leads to increased deaths by guns. Naturally, guns kill the slowest and dumbest people first; making societal progress faster and more efficient. Consequently, the common availability of guns hastens societal progress; culling the herd, if you will.

Only the truly slowest and dumbest amongst us would make a joke about the large number of children killed by firearms in the US every year.

[Docno]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

Way to generalize. Its funny how people can be protective of their rights when people try to take them away. I don't see it as anything sexual, I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you.

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

You wrote, "For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course)." Darned if I can figure out what you mean. I know not all is not 100% but what percent did you mean by, "Not all of them?"

92.3% of Texans and 8.4% of Rhode Islanders. That's all I've given thought to... I can work on the other 48 if you'd like.

[Docno]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

You do know John Lennon was not actually an American? And he was shot in NYC?

You do know that John Lennon was referring to a slogan from an NRA advert on the cover of an American gun magazine? He was quite disturbed that a recently fired gun might be a source of happiness to someone (i.e., an American).

A popular theory is that Lennon meant for this to be a drug metaphor for doing heroin:

-"Needing a fix"

-"Jump the gun" meaning to cook it up

-"Bang, Bang, SHOOT, SHOOT"

-"When I hold you in my arm, nobody can do me no harm" - heroin addicts tell how when you're on it, nothing can do you no harm and Lennon's overall nature seem to point to this.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=154

Yes, that's quite possible, but it doesn't change the fact that he got the slogan from a US gun magazine.

[ryanmacl]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

Way to generalize. Its funny how people can be protective of their rights when people try to take them away. I don't see it as anything sexual, I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you.

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

Yes, you did generalize. It would be like me saying "The posts you make are juvenile and devoid of any insight. (Not all of them, of course). Your relationship with your keyboard is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word for many hours of each day." See how those little brackets don't really help?

It seems you can't see the forest for the trees. If books are too difficult an allegory, how about cars? Cars kill far more people per year than guns. Cars are a substantial investment, more so but not unlike guns. People are generally protective of their "right" to own their cars.

Does that help?

[sgtsabai]

This was a thread sure to ignite, congrats OP, did you think hard on it?. I made a living with firearms for many years, learned to hunt quite early as did many of my generation. I was a professional big game guide and law enforcement officer. It makes me sad to see so many wackos running around killing in the US today, and it makes me sad to see the police, of which I was one do the same. It isn't the gun, and frankly I don't really know what to make of what happened to my former and still loved albeit sick country. Look, this is an argument that can't be won, those of us that are gun lovers and those of you who hate guns will never agree, not even agree to to not agree. I never owned enough guns and I damn well didn't need a reason to own them. Why would I need a reason? When I left the states for good I left behind (sold), AK-47, M-14, 2 M-1's, several shotguns, many pistols including my service revolver, an original Mod. 1911A1 from WWII (customized), several custom rifles (one I used in combat stayed with my son), SKS I brought back from VN (went to another Vet), etc. This is beating a dead horse, there will never be an agreement and frankly I don't care one damn bit what anti-gunners think. Thailand has plenty of guns, more than most realize, you have the money you have the gun and here I don't think it is for anything but killing people, with few exceptions.

[Time Traveller]

Right to bear arms....in our Constitution.

In Australia ... no gun culture ... we get on just fine ... as do many other countries around the world.

The right to own guns is almost a fundamental human right. If Australia took that right from the citizens and you're happy about that, good for you. No one is complaining about how you live or what rights you want to give up.

[Docno]

Right to bear arms....in our Constitution.

In Australia ... no gun culture ... we get on just fine ... as do many other countries around the world.

The right to own guns is almost a fundamental human right. If Australia took that right from the citizens and you're happy about that, good for you. No one is complaining about how you live or what rights you want to give up.

Funny that a piece of technology invented just a few hundred years ago can be considered a fundamental human right. How does that work exactly? I mean, I can understand the right to express oneself, the right to choose one's leaders, the rights to life, liberty and security of one's person etc. being 'fundamental' rights, as they have probably all been concerns of our species from the time we first banded into social groups. But the 'right' to own a gun as a fundamental human right??? I almost don't know what to say. Aspects of US culture continue to mystify me, and I grew up only a half-hour drive away....

[kowpot]

Americans are required to own firearms by law--its actually in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something.

Can our Thai "brothers-in-arms" make that claim?

BTW, only 25 posts and you are already fishing the big waters with a topic like this.

I see a bright future ahead ;-)

I agree with your second comment re fishing in BIG waters, well said.

Re your first comment you are Way.. way of beat. Have a thorough read of the US 2nd amendment.... somewhat boring to say the least... but never the less informative. A lot of US citizens "think" the 2nd amendment permits everyone to carry arms. If you have the time & patience to read it all, it mainly refers to militia & state organized citizens force to carry arms for purposes of defense. Somewhat different to "everyone" being permitted to be armed at their own discretion.

I realize I'll get numerous attacks from Americans telling me how wrong I am. My main point is to try an offer a basic explanation as to what most people think & what is fact.

Moving on.....

There is like 10 million pages of case law dealing with the issue and millions of arguments before the Supreme court and other American courts. Why would you think reading one amendment would give you a clue?

Who cares. Can we move this thread to the bait Americans forum?

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

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[Docno]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...

Way to generalize. Its funny how people can be protective of their rights when people try to take them away. I don't see it as anything sexual, I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you.

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

Yes, you did generalize. It would be like me saying "The posts you make are juvenile and devoid of any insight. (Not all of them, of course). Your relationship with your keyboard is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word for many hours of each day." See how those little brackets don't really help?

It seems you can't see the forest for the trees. If books are too difficult an allegory, how about cars? Cars kill far more people per year than guns. Cars are a substantial investment, more so but not unlike guns. People are generally protective of their "right" to own their cars.

Does that help?

Not a useful example (re my posts). If you believe that most of my post are juvenile, I don't see how that's generalising... you may very believe that (though you'd be wrong, of course )

Your 'allegory' about cars--ok, it's not really an allegory, is it?--doesn't really work either. Classic NRA logic. Cars have been designed from the start to transport people, not kill. However, through misuse or mistake, they sometimes do lead to death. Guns, on the other hand, were designed from the start to damage, maim, and kill. That is their core function, though their use has since expanded to include sport shooting (just as cars are sometimes used in sport racing).

To be honest, it's not so much guns that I have an issue with ... it's bullets. If they could exclusively/only sell non-lethal rubber bullets, then as the song goes, "fire away, fire away..." I'd have no problem with you engaging in your hobby. Why not? Is that something you could live with?

[sgtsabai]

I think you would find that people many, many, many years ago thought the right to own a rock, spear, bow and arrow, or a sword would think they had a fundamental right to own. I know my ancestors did, too bad they didn't have compound bows.

[ryanmacl]

Right to bear arms....in our Constitution.

In Australia ... no gun culture ... we get on just fine ... as do many other countries around the world.

The right to own guns is almost a fundamental human right. If Australia took that right from the citizens and you're happy about that, good for you. No one is complaining about how you live or what rights you want to give up.

Funny that a piece of technology invented just a few hundred years ago can be considered a fundamental human right. How does that work exactly? I mean, I can understand the right to express oneself, the right to choose one's leaders, the rights to life, liberty and security of one's person etc. being 'fundamental' rights, as they have probably all been concerns of our species from the time we first banded into social groups. But the 'right' to own a gun as a fundamental human right??? I almost don't know what to say. Aspects of US culture continue to mystify me, and I grew up only a half-hour drive away....

I don't so much see owning a gun as a fundamental human right, but more as the right to protect myself. If bad people around me have guns, I feel I should be free to have a gun as well. If people around me only had knives and swords, I would feel that it is my right to have knives and swords as well. Before anyone gets started, I don't think it scales up to indiscriminate weapons like grenades and nuclear bombs, nor do I see a need for the average person to have fully automatic weapons, but I appreciate the fact that a vetted citizen can have additional firepower in their home. I believe the People should have the power to rise up against the government in the face of tyranny, as apparently do the Thais.

[Docno]

In Australia ... no gun culture ... we get on just fine ... as do many other countries around the world.

The right to own guns is almost a fundamental human right. If Australia took that right from the citizens and you're happy about that, good for you. No one is complaining about how you live or what rights you want to give up.

Funny that a piece of technology invented just a few hundred years ago can be considered a fundamental human right. How does that work exactly? I mean, I can understand the right to express oneself, the right to choose one's leaders, the rights to life, liberty and security of one's person etc. being 'fundamental' rights, as they have probably all been concerns of our species from the time we first banded into social groups. But the 'right' to own a gun as a fundamental human right??? I almost don't know what to say. Aspects of US culture continue to mystify me, and I grew up only a half-hour drive away....

I don't so much see owning a gun as a fundamental human right, but more as the right to protect myself. If bad people around me have guns, I feel I should be free to have a gun as well. If people around me only had knives and swords, I would feel that it is my right to have knives and swords as well. Before anyone gets started, I don't think it scales up to indiscriminate weapons like grenades and nuclear bombs, nor do I see a need for the average person to have fully automatic weapons, but I appreciate the fact that a vetted citizen can have additional firepower in their home. I believe the People should have the power to rise up against the government in the face of tyranny, as apparently do the Thais.

There's logic in your argument, and it's well-stated. But don't you see the irony in the what you're saying? The reason why you need a gun to protect yourself is because your society is flooded with guns ... your society has created a hideous chicken-and-egg dilemma. The bad guys have guns so the good guys need to arm themselves which gives the bad guys more guns to steal, and so it goes. I spend most of my time in a place where guns are outright illegal for civilians. My gf, when she visits, can walk down my street at 3am without fear ... it's common. Police don't have to worry about being shot at when they show up at a domestic dispute. I don't have to worry that if I step on some lunatics foot at a bar, he'll be waiting later for me in the parking lot with a gun. And most of all, children can go to school without having to pass through metal detectors and they don't have to worry about being massacred by a schoolmate or deranged outsider. Can't you see how dysfunctional your society has become?