Yearly dodgy school recrutiment rush

[Scott]

Posts critical of spelling and grammar have been deleted. Such posts are off-topic and if it continues warnings will be issued.

Since neither post added anything of value to the topic, if you must troll, please do it elsewhere.

[onlycw]

Are you getting after hour calls as well? Seems like >90% call in the evening!

Well, on Friday after 6 pm, a school calls for the first time. Ten minutes after saying hello, they ask me to get on the bus to SISAKET that night. Yep, I swear that's true. Some "planning", huh?

As a teenager, I was selling my motorcycle. The buyer was a wealthy business man. He had come and done the test ride. Now he bemoans the need to rent a trailer bla bla. Okay, I agreed to ride the bike to his house, with him driving me back.

Well, everything went well - until he chose to squeeze me 200 on the agreed on price.

After that, would you want to go to the extreme and get on a bus the same night and hope to get that contract in the morning?

A previous school hired teachers and told them they would have to be here to sign the contracts bla bla. Guess what. Upon arrival, their agreed salary was slashed by 2,000 B a month. "The Remuneration Committee has decided..." Nothing to do with the director, of course!

Another school was holding an open recruitment event - all for 18,000 B (check Ajarn.com for this wonderful job ad. Don't bother unless you have an Ed degree).

So they hired me and I'm hoping for the best. But then the B-Visa will have to be paid by myself. They get what they negotiate: be prepared for such demands! I agreed and have seller's remorse!

Is it scary how they operate - or what? Need I elaborate that I waited all day for a Skype interview which never was even attempted at all?!? (Not some technical glitch or bad audio or something... so they hire people without a job interview. And expect people to spend x,xxx Baht based on the HOPE that they will be getting that contract. Have a tattoo or an earring and you might be out of pocket by x,xxx Baht).

Oh, and questions like "which classes would I be teaching?" Were never answered either. Seeing 20 classes once a week or 10 twice a week? M1-M6? Would be nice to know!

Edited May 17, 2014 by onlycw

[onlycw]

I resigned from the Thai school I had been happily teaching at for 4 years. It was time for a change and my resignation was for no other reason. This was on Feb 28.

I then searched the web (3 sites offering many teaching jobs both in Bangkok and greater Thailand)

I applied by email for no less than 15 positions in Bangkok that matched the qualifications/paperwork I have being a NZ University degreee - TEFL and a police clearance.

All clearly attached to my C.V. including my mugshot and pictures of myself in the classroom teaching, contact phone number etc etc

(For the "appearance" record I am white skinned - handsome - with glistening white teeth and a full head of hair...and don't smell of body odour...and have the correct visa)

I honestly did not receive one reply after 1-1/2 months had passed (April 15th).......not feeling dis-enchanted I sent the same email to the same advertisers again...I received 1 reply from a school in Chiang Rai (obviously my C.V had been passed onto them) I declined their offer.

I now see (May 16th) the very same schools advertising for teachers...now using the words/abbrvs "Urgently start tomorrow"...."ASAP" etc etc. (These comments are on both agency and direct with school employment advertisements)

You really have to wonder what the hell happens to emails you send to agencies and Thai schools let alone receiving a response from them (simply does not happen does it...!!!)

Are they binned because the "office girl" cannot read English....I heard once that this does in fact happen ocassionally and of course her boss is not ever going to know that the email was binned/deleted.

Or is the sheer volume (possibly) of emails received applying for a particular position so great that half are binned and the remainder read through and some applicant receives the nod?

It would appear from the number of teaching jobs currently being advertised throughout Thailand, that there is a shortage of NES teachers......maybe I am wrong in this assumption, but it certainly looks that way, so why aren't the schools and agencies more "proactive" in chasing up and replying to applicants.

Rant over

Wow, I'm seconding that experience with agencies. #1 knew me and their manager assured me I would have a job in Lopburi the coming semester. (He's from ZA and now left that formerly Thai owned agency and set up shop himself. We were Facebook friends and when I was working for them, there would be almost daily nocturnal Skype inquiries etc.).

#2. Applied for a p-t and temp job which was white hot urgent. It took me 90 minutes just to get there. a) A phone call saying "we filled the position, don't bother" would have been really appreciated. ** Okay, so the manager in that huge office with xx staff in a top location assures me that she will have a job for me in May.

So I called her a few days ago. She is still desperately needing teachers and it's affecting her clients and her bottom line. Why the hell doesn't she use her filing system? She grabbed my whole package, photo, CV, degree, reference...

A: "send me a photo, then I will remember you". Sent a photo and - no response.

Q: Why offer jobs without meaning to?!? As manager (!) of such a big operation with xx employees and the office next to a shopping mall costing likely a 6-figure amount in rent... So she gets some applicant and doesn't like him. big deal. Just sent him away!

Try proposing marriage while dating girls you dislike - it would make life "interesting", wouldn't it?

Something is very wrong. Like directors banning any attempts at hiring teachers "before June". Everything is happening for a reason, my friends. Cui bono? Who benefits?

And yes, many "managers" couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery. Eff up, move up? I dunno. But I've met some price cows as HoD And they all think of themselves as incredibly good at what they do.

[atyclb]

I resigned from the Thai school I had been happily teaching at for 4 years. It was time for a change and my resignation was for no other reason. This was on Feb 28.

I then searched the web (3 sites offering many teaching jobs both in Bangkok and greater Thailand)

I applied by email for no less than 15 positions in Bangkok that matched the qualifications/paperwork I have being a NZ University degreee - TEFL and a police clearance.

All clearly attached to my C.V. including my mugshot and pictures of myself in the classroom teaching, contact phone number etc etc

(For the "appearance" record I am white skinned - handsome - with glistening white teeth and a full head of hair...and don't smell of body odour...and have the correct visa)

I honestly did not receive one reply after 1-1/2 months had passed (April 15th).......not feeling dis-enchanted I sent the same email to the same advertisers again...I received 1 reply from a school in Chiang Rai (obviously my C.V had been passed onto them) I declined their offer.

I now see (May 16th) the very same schools advertising for teachers...now using the words/abbrvs "Urgently start tomorrow"...."ASAP" etc etc. (These comments are on both agency and direct with school employment advertisements)

You really have to wonder what the hell happens to emails you send to agencies and Thai schools let alone receiving a response from them (simply does not happen does it...!!!)

Are they binned because the "office girl" cannot read English....I heard once that this does in fact happen ocassionally and of course her boss is not ever going to know that the email was binned/deleted.

Or is the sheer volume (possibly) of emails received applying for a particular position so great that half are binned and the remainder read through and some applicant receives the nod?

It would appear from the number of teaching jobs currently being advertised throughout Thailand, that there is a shortage of NES teachers......maybe I am wrong in this assumption, but it certainly looks that way, so why aren't the schools and agencies more "proactive" in chasing up and replying to applicants.

Rant over

Perhaps by the 23 century non responding thai entities will have acquired a few "form letters" in english that can be copied and pasted and emailed notably #basic acknowledgement and # thank you but at this time we are not considering your application, etc etc. Even bar girls have such "copy and paste" capabilities in their cell phones and computers.

[harrry]

....I now see (May 16th) the very same schools advertising for teachers...now using the words/abbrvs "Urgently start tomorrow"...."ASAP" etc etc. (These comments are on both agency and direct with school employment advertisements)

You really have to wonder what the hell happens to emails you send to agencies and Thai schools let alone receiving a response from them (simply does not happen does it...!!!)

Are they binned because the "office girl" cannot read English....I heard once that this does in fact happen ocassionally and of course her boss is not ever going to know that the email was binned/deleted.

Or is the sheer volume (possibly) of emails received applying for a particular position so great that half are binned and the remainder read through and some applicant receives the nod?

It would appear from the number of teaching jobs currently being advertised throughout Thailand, that there is a shortage of NES teachers......maybe I am wrong in this assumption, but it certainly looks that way, so why aren't the schools and agencies more "proactive" in chasing up and replying to applicants.

Rant over

Scott has previously said that at his school the girl trashes emails in English as she cannot read them. If that happens in his school where Scott seems to have a well running department it would seem emails are pretty useless as a form of application.

Edited May 17, 2014 by harrry

[lucifer666]

I have been getting several calls a day also. unfortunately, all the work offers are from hundreds of KM away and i would prefer somewhere local to Hua Hin.

[cgphuket]

"I count 7 unsubstantiated claims"... really??? This is my experience and opinion. If you want "evidence" you are welcome to follow me around with a clipboard for a few month. Next to you post anything, be sure to cite references to prove the validity of every comment....next.

It is sad that (1) some schools complain about the low quality of teachers, and (2) the reputation of SE Asian English teachers has taken a hit over recent years, but it is often (3) the schools themselves that weed out the good teachers by treating them poorly, until (4) many of the remaining applicants are low-tier. Of course, (5) many applicants are unskilled, unreliable and dodgy, but it is the schools responsibility to screen their applicants. (6) Agencies and language schools have put the final nail in the ESL coffins. (7) I have met several teachers who did the math and their teaching clients brought 100-150k a month into the company, while making 25-35k for the privilege. Not all language school owners are rich, but one will never make good money unless they are the owner.

I count 7 unsubstantiated claims in that paragraph.

(1) some schools complain about the low quality of teachers
(2) the reputation of SE Asian English teachers has taken a hit over recent years

(3) the schools themselves that weed out the good teachers by treating them poorly

(4) many of the remaining applicants are low-tier

(5) many applicants are unskilled, unreliable and dodgy,

(6) Agencies and language schools have put the final nail in the ESL coffins

(7) I have met several teachers who did the math and their teaching clients brought 100-150k a month into the company, while making 25-35k for the privilege

There might be some truth to a few of the claims but this is the rant of someone who really should be doing something other than teaching in Thailand. Life is just too much of a burden for them.

[plachon]

Non response seems to be the norm among thai entities, be they schools,companies, or hospitals, particularly when it is a business or work inquiry.

I know people that have taken considerable time and even hand delivered inquiries and proposals which almost 100% time do not receive as much as a 20 second email to acknowledge it.

Someone from a big G7 law firm sent a formal letter (translated to thai) with a business proposition to a very big thai company. A lot time and effort then professional translation. Not even an acknowledgement.

You would think any entity holding itself out as international/ upscale/ high level, would at least acknowledge an inquiry????

Without going into why it is like that the important thing is it is far from international standard/level.

Correct, from my 15 year experience of working for Thai institutions, both governmental and non-governmental. The latest example of the paradigm was when my daughter, who wants to teach English in the primary school she attended in Isaan, wrote both a letter and email to the director of that school, asking whether she might be able to get a job with them. It took her a long time to draft, translate into Thai with parental help, type out in both languages and then send off, giving them the option to reply by letter or email. That was 3 months ago, and so far....nada, zilch, nowt, back from the school. Very disappointing, as it points to the wider malaise hinted at in many posts, about the general lack of any general communications etiquette and professional approaches in so many organisations and institutions in modern Thailand. It is a characteristic shortcoming that will hold the country back from more substantial and qualitative development into the future, I strongly suspect.

[onlycw]

....I now see (May 16th) the very same schools advertising for teachers...now using the words/abbrvs "Urgently start tomorrow"...."ASAP" etc etc. (These comments are on both agency and direct with school employment advertisements)

You really have to wonder what the hell happens to emails you send to agencies and Thai schools let alone receiving a response from them (simply does not happen does it...!!!)

Are they binned because the "office girl" cannot read English....I heard once that this does in fact happen ocassionally and of course her boss is not ever going to know that the email was binned/deleted.

Or is the sheer volume (possibly) of emails received applying for a particular position so great that half are binned and the remainder read through and some applicant receives the nod?

It would appear from the number of teaching jobs currently being advertised throughout Thailand, that there is a shortage of NES teachers......maybe I am wrong in this assumption, but it certainly looks that way, so why aren't the schools and agencies more "proactive" in chasing up and replying to applicants.

Rant over

Scott has previously said that at his school the girl trashes emails in English as she cannot read them. If that happens in his school where Scott seems to have a well running department it would seem emails are pretty useless as a form of application.

Well, like Scott, I responded to each and every applicant when I was recruiting for an old school. Then there were the calls. 99% of those Cameroonians had a terrible accent and limited vocab. What a way to screen oneself out! One guy ignored me as point of contact and began pestering the school itself. They were livid!

Back to the topic at hand, them not reading e-mails.

Got some long-winded cover letters. some ran many pages. Serious teachers outlining things they want to do / to change / to accomplish. To be fair, I pointed out that IMHO, the Thais in charge of hiring teachers would never bother reading more than a page. Ask me how I know!

TBH, there is another aspect which I do not understand.

1. So they hire people without a single question about handling certain situations / their style of teaching etc.
2. They don't do a Skype interview either (letting people sit by their computers all day in vain). "No call, no show" - just like those professionals who hadn't cancelled with Scott's school.
3. Then they want an ETA on the weekend!!! Why oh why? No explanation given, as usual.
4. Okay, so they hire someone without a single professional test question. But why are they then revisiting the online CV on Ajarn.com on a Sunday morning at 1:36 ?!? (And many times at odd hours).

Doubts?

Buyer's remorse?

...?

I would like to know! It's clear they are sloppy and have no process in place. Nor do they have a list of questions to ask like

i. how do you handle an extremely noisy class?

ii. One student is acting out, disturbing all others. what do you do?

iii. ... Something, anything.

Punctuality? Willingness to do extra and unpaid work?

...

No information regarding the grades I will be teaching, the schedule, ... So I asked to get in touch with existing foreign teachers so that I may ask them questions and (hopefully get some answers).

Nope. Nothing, nada. and the school's website is down.

Let the adventure begin!

[schondie]

Schools are definitely getting desperate with their search for teachers. The school I'm working at gave me a contract to read and sign but I told them there's many things I'm not happy with. "Okay, no problem. Make the changes you want" is what they told me after the owner stated last week all the foreigners are lucky to get jobs in Thailand. After pointing out that that may have been the case years ago, times have changed.

I'll be off soon as well. This country is too complacent when it comes to having a finger on the pulse regarding hiring foreigners to teach. In 2001 I was getting 30,000 a month, now 35,000 a month but far fewer benefits. Pay for your own visa, WP and less holidays. Other countries that Thais look down upon have upped the ante and are offering better packages than here.

I love living here but the work situation needs to drastically improve before I'd be enticed back. Last term I worked at a vocational school and they also want me to come back but as they only pay nine and a half months a year it ain't gonna happen unless they pay eleven months and pay for the WP and visa. They collect ten million baht a year in tuition fees for paying the foreign teachers but only pay out two and a quarter million a year. Who's the greedy ones? Those foreigners asking for too much or the schools?

[atyclb]

Non response seems to be the norm among thai entities, be they schools,companies, or hospitals, particularly when it is a business or work inquiry.

I know people that have taken considerable time and even hand delivered inquiries and proposals which almost 100% time do not receive as much as a 20 second email to acknowledge it.

Someone from a big G7 law firm sent a formal letter (translated to thai) with a business proposition to a very big thai company. A lot time and effort then professional translation. Not even an acknowledgement.

You would think any entity holding itself out as international/ upscale/ high level, would at least acknowledge an inquiry????

Without going into why it is like that the important thing is it is far from international standard/level.

Correct, from my 15 year experience of working for Thai institutions, both governmental and non-governmental. The latest example of the paradigm was when my daughter, who wants to teach English in the primary school she attended in Isaan, wrote both a letter and email to the director of that school, asking whether she might be able to get a job with them. It took her a long time to draft, translate into Thai with parental help, type out in both languages and then send off, giving them the option to reply by letter or email. That was 3 months ago, and so far....nada, zilch, nowt, back from the school. Very disappointing, as it points to the wider malaise hinted at in many posts, about the general lack of any general communications etiquette and professional approaches in so many organisations and institutions in modern Thailand. It is a characteristic shortcoming that will hold the country back from more substantial and qualitative development into the future, I strongly suspect.

I had taken considerable effort to compose an email and hand delivered proposal to the stanley kaplan prep course affiliate with the idea to offer a live simulated exam that does not exist otherwise. Even with followup calls and an in person visit and promises by front desk staff not so much as a 10 second acknowledgement email or phone call from director as promised.

I emailed a dept. of taiwan national university with the same idea/proposal. the email went out in the wee hours of the morning, perhaps 5 am and to my (post thai experience) amazement i had a cordial succinct and logical reply at about 9:30 am from the "dean" of that department no less. the old expression "you cant beat a dead horse" is highly applicable

[canarysun]

After meeting quite a few " farang teachers " over the years in Thailand and once considered the idea myself (only for a few minutes...) But what has always put me off ( apart from being " trapped indoors " all day ) is that I haven't met any teachers yet who actually have a " work visa " ???? Obviously many teachers must be getting " cash in hand " ??? Also quite a few of the teachers that i have met recently tell me that with there " poor wages " that some months they don't even earn enough to pay the rent! (6,000 baht ) .....

[Loaded]

After meeting quite a few " farang teachers " over the years in Thailand and once considered the idea myself (only for a few minutes...) But what has always put me off ( apart from being " trapped indoors " all day ) is that I haven't met any teachers yet who actually have a " work visa " ???? Obviously many teachers must be getting " cash in hand " ??? Also quite a few of the teachers that i have met recently tell me that with there " poor wages " that some months they don't even earn enough to pay the rent! (6,000 baht ) .....

You've never met anyone with a 'work visa' for a very simple reason: they don't exist.

A work permit allows you to work and this is issued by the Ministry of Labour.

[Kf6vci]

Non response seems to be the norm among thai entities, be they schools,companies, or hospitals, particularly when it is a business or work inquiry.

I know people that have taken considerable time and even hand delivered inquiries and proposals which almost 100% time do not receive as much as a 20 second email to acknowledge it.

Someone from a big G7 law firm sent a formal letter (translated to thai) with a business proposition to a very big thai company. A lot time and effort then professional translation. Not even an acknowledgement.

You would think any entity holding itself out as international/ upscale/ high level, would at least acknowledge an inquiry????

Without going into why it is like that the important thing is it is far from international standard/level.

Correct, from my 15 year experience of working for Thai institutions, both governmental and non-governmental. The latest example of the paradigm was when my daughter, who wants to teach English in the primary school she attended in Isaan, wrote both a letter and email to the director of that school, asking whether she might be able to get a job with them. It took her a long time to draft, translate into Thai with parental help, type out in both languages and then send off, giving them the option to reply by letter or email. That was 3 months ago, and so far....nada, zilch, nowt, back from the school. Very disappointing, as it points to the wider malaise hinted at in many posts, about the general lack of any general communications etiquette and professional approaches in so many organisations and institutions in modern Thailand. It is a characteristic shortcoming that will hold the country back from more substantial and qualitative development into the future, I strongly suspect.

Hear, hear.

Then there is the reality of schools asking the one teacher who is most comfortable to speak English to recruit some foreigners.

Not a single HR or professional question may be asked. Your daughter might have sent just a pretty photo and write a 1-line message in Thai about being available to work.

We had the HWH in the shower go up in flames. You think they called back with an apology or explanation?!? Nope.

[BruceMangosteen]

You've never met anyone with a 'work visa' for a very simple reason: they don't exist.

A work permit allows you to work and this is issued by the Ministry of Labour.

AS was outlined to me, and confirmed by me, the "VISA" extensions are in fact granted as permission to stay based upon work at a specific school. There is no reason to confuse the issue. The question remains exactly when and/or if said extension becomes null and void if the Work Permit is denied/expired. I've heard it both ways, but FYI many consider it a "work visa" for these reasons. Curfew again tonight but my internet never went down?

[WonnabeBiker]

With the ongoing VISA situation, how's your school affected? How are they coping? Are they aware of the clear and imminent danger of losing some of their foreign teachers?

[Scott]

Recruitment is a problem. Limited number of applicants.

A few teachers who have been caught in the current mess before the paperwork could be completed and then decided to leave the country and go elsewhere (they were qualified and had options other than Thailand, but would have preferred to live in Thailand).

Among the Filipinos, who are subject teachers, a number have left for greener pastures and higher pay inside of Thailand -- they were again qualified and good teachers.

This means some vacancies not filled and fewer good applicants to chose from.