At the crossroads and faced with a choice of four paths: Thai opinion

[rreddin]

The only path the people want is the right to vote for those you will represent them. No other choice is acceptable.

Bob or Pipkins, please calm down, you're over excited, what is this:' for those you will represent them'?

Forward with reform, drag the unwilling Pheua Thai into the future.Let the days of dinosaurs like Banharn and Thaksin, owners and masters of entire political parties, become history.

Reform Thailand, reform the people!

Suthep and his supporters hide behind the banner of reform. There will be no reform if he gets his way. There will simple be return to the good old days of the 'born to rule' brigade. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Suthep and his backers had allocated all of their resources to winning the hearts and minds of the electorate instead of disrupting the lives of tens of thousands of ordinary Bangkok folk, they might just have a chance of winning the next election. As it is, they have no chance. Interim appointed PM will simply create more division. The ballot box, the ballot box, the ballot box.

Is this just your opinion written on the back of a beer coaster

Or you have fact to prove this

Please provide facts

Have tou not been listening to what Suthep and his movement's joint leaders have been saying over the last six months? Just a quick reminder: unspecified reforms, appointed government ( the implication is that it would be chosen or approved by PRDC), elections only when the reforms have been implemented, but no timescale for completing this; Suthep has stated that he wants to emulate one of Thailand's most corrupt military dictators. Then there is the monk who is co-leader with Suthep. He wants all power returned to the King - an absolute monarchy just like pre-1932. It is ironic that it was a military coup in 1932 that ended the absolut monarchy.

[Piichai]

Why cannot they have an election and form a government for national unity, say with a life of 3 yrs max. It could be like the British had durring the WW2, all parties , very successful. Once the war was won, it went back to fresh elections. Here it could the same, all parties sort out this reform stuff, then go back to the people. . Probably too simple for Thai Brains

Abhisit discussed his reform framework with many parities.

PTP, however, refused to get involved.

If you remember that Abhisit didn't have the backing of Suthep either.

Not so sure Abhisit needs it.

Suthep is taking a hard line for a reason.

It's important to understand that Suthep joined the grassroots organizations for a reason. The people will not continue to follow him if they see a more sensible solution from the Senate.

As he is a politician, I expect him to come around once he's convinced of the prevailing winds.

[soalbundy]

The 5th path is obvious, but it is against the rules to post about this way out.

There would be no one left to vote for

[Mango Bob]

Why are the anti government protester and there supports here so afraid of elections. You keep saying you have the support of a majority of the people. If this was so you would win an election. But deep down inside you know your never win because you don't have support of a majority of the people. And don't bring up the vote buying scheme. Because if your people believe in you no amount of money would change their vote.

[Elmer Gantry]

The only path the people want is the right to vote for those you will represent them. No other choice is acceptable.

Bob or Pipkins, please calm down, you're over excited, what is this:' for those you will represent them'?

Forward with reform, drag the unwilling Pheua Thai into the future.Let the days of dinosaurs like Banharn and Thaksin, owners and masters of entire political parties, become history.

Reform Thailand, reform the people!

Suthep and his supporters hide behind the banner of reform. There will be no reform if he gets his way. There will simple be return to the good old days of the 'born to rule' brigade. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Suthep and his backers had allocated all of their resources to winning the hearts and minds of the electorate instead of disrupting the lives of tens of thousands of ordinary Bangkok folk, they might just have a chance of winning the next election. As it is, they have no chance. Interim appointed PM will simply create more division. The ballot box, the ballot box, the ballot box.

Or will it be the usual,the piggy bank,the piggy bank,the piggy bank.

[Piichai]

Why are the anti government protester and there supports here so afraid of elections. You keep saying you have the support of a majority of the people. If this was so you would win an election. But deep down inside you know your never win because you don't have support of a majority of the people. And don't bring up the vote buying scheme. Because if your people believe in you no amount of money would change their vote.

Reformists aren't afraid of elections; they are afraid of unbridled corruption raping the country.

Once some real reforms are enacted, it'll matter a lot less who wins the election.

[ginjag]

The 5th path is obvious, but it is against the rules to post about this way out.

There would be no one left to vote for

The best thing that could happen--if you get my drift.---there would BE no voting.---this is NOT an option--wish it was.

[Time Traveller]

1. Already tried, didn't work

2. Already tried, didn't work

3. Already tried, didn't work

4. Already tried, didn't work.

These journalists seem to have the memory span of a mosquito.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Time Traveller

[Scamper]

This article gives as clear a picture-postcard view of the dynamics at play as one can get. All things have happened and evolved over time, and therefore has a feeling of inevitability about it. Thaksin and his Pheu Thai/UDD edifice have been in a " face the music " mode ever since October 13, when the " revised " amnesty bill was first released to the public - a revision that included what everyone knew it would eventually include at some point - Thaksin himself. He knew there would be push-back to it, of course, but he decided to gamble on it anyway because he underestimated ( by leaps and bounds, as it turned out ) the extent of the national outrage this bill would cause. It was a stupendous act of self-sabotage. But the movement which sprang out of this was long in evidence long before October 13. The amnesty bill released it. It did not create it. It was always there - in latent form. Hence, when Yingluck almost immediately decided to shelf the bill in the presence of this backlash, it was already too late. And everything that Pheu Thai have scrambled to do ever since - as in a perpetual knee-jerk reaction - has been too late. That is why - no matter what happens in the coming weeks - these feelings will long continue to be present. A consciousness of political reform - long present - has now been awakened. And once awake, it will not easily be put to sleep. Whatever happens, these months will have permanently changed the political dynamic in this country.

[bigbamboo]

A crossroads would be nice...... anything other than being stuck on this bloody roundabout.

[fab4]

Why cannot they have an election and form a government for national unity, say with a life of 3 yrs max. It could be like the British had durring the WW2, all parties , very successful. Once the war was won, it went back to fresh elections. Here it could the same, all parties sort out this reform stuff, then go back to the people. . Probably too simple for Thai Brains

Abhisit discussed his reform framework with many parities.

PTP, however, refused to get involved.

In that case the reforms should be common knowledge. Care to share them?

[Piichai]

Why cannot they have an election and form a government for national unity, say with a life of 3 yrs max. It could be like the British had durring the WW2, all parties , very successful. Once the war was won, it went back to fresh elections. Here it could the same, all parties sort out this reform stuff, then go back to the people. . Probably too simple for Thai Brains

Abhisit discussed his reform framework with many parities.

PTP, however, refused to get involved.

In that case the reforms should be common knowledge. Care to share them?

It's being discussed in another thread or two already. Curious that other than suggesting abolishing lese majeste laws (which Yingluck clearly doesn't support), there haven't been many suggestions from the Reds.

[tullynagardy]

A consciousness of political reform - long present - has now been awakened. And once awake, it will not easily be put to sleep.

I couldnt agree more.

Thailand now has social mobility and the poor have a voice which they will not surrender without with hell of a fight. What we are witnessing is the death throes of a rich elite loosing grip on the wealth of the country who are also up for the fight but will inevitably loose.

Democracy will win this fight and the elite will loose it, offering a better and more equal future for the youth of the country. What is uncertain is how much blood will need to be shed before these sinister forces realise this.

[tezzainoz]

It is my opinion based on twenty plus years of living in Thailand and observing Thai politics. Talk to many of those in the yellow shirt camp to find that many do not believe in universal suffrage. Many believe that the folks in Isaan and the North are 'uneducated' and therefore not qualified to vote. And by the way, what is a beer coaster? If are are trying to belittle my opinions by suggesting that I am some kind of barfly, then you are only belittling yourself Good Sir. Read my posts on TV and you will find that they are generally thoughtfully crafted.

1st sorry if you where offended by the beer coaster dig, but why do you think beer coaster only exist in bars, I an not a beer drinker but have beer coaster for my Nam Som to stop the ice coming off the glasses I keep in the freezer from wetting every where

In my office a bear coster is used all the time for joting down quick noties

Now onto your remarks

Politics in Thailand has changed alot in 20 years, so I not understand your comment as you would know this .....

There are many who believe that in the old days Issan people where uneducated but I thing its time you got out and take a look at the real world in 2014 Maha Sarakham has 5 Universitiies (where my Thai wife achieved her Masters degree) so this throws that comment out the window in 2014

My beliefs and that of my friends that every one has the right to vote, but in 2014 it is about the freedom for people to learn why they must vote, and what it means to both them selves and the country

So if we are agree the problem is not with the people put the parties and PM who refuse the people to learn and stay politically uneducated so the people can be controlled

Sociallism is about making the people rely on hand outs in stead of the people being able to stand on their own two feet

If you want see this in affect look no further than Australia where for 6 years this has been the practice of a social government

[tullynagardy]

My beliefs and that of my friends that every one has the right to vote, but in 2014 it is about the freedom for people to learn why they must vote, and what it means to both them selves and the country

There is a great paradox on here that puzzles me.

On this board we see dozens of stories annually about fellow farrangs being swindled out of their life fortune by a Thai girl, usually from Issan, usually (despite what will be claimed) an ex bargirl. In this situation the said girl will often have bided here time for years, skillfully manipulating the love sick old codger into handing over everything whilst proclaiming her love for him. For her the relationship is a means to an end and from day one she will have an end goal in sight, that end goal will provide financial stability forever to her and her family. In this scenario these invariably "red" leaning Thais are very much able to see past the days end regarding what benefits them and show foresight and forward planning (however mean spirited) most farrangs lack.

Now put these same people into a political spectrum and they are apparently suddenly too uneducated to vote. They are unable to think beyond the end of the day and will simply sell their vote to the highest bidder. If party 1 offers them 300 baht but no free healthcare and party 2 offers them 200 baht but free healthcare these halfwitted people will go for the former despite it to their detriment.

So in one situation they cant think beyond the days end but in the other they can think years ahead!?

Of course this contradiction is <deleted> and generally put forward by right wing sex pats with a chip on their shoulder, many of whom have perhaps been in situation one, The truth is these people vote for whats best for them. Under Thaskin most knew he was dodgy but frankly didnt care less as free healthcare and affordable education was suddenly bestowed upon them. The idea they sell their vote to the highest bidder is ridiculous, they simply vote for what benefits them most. Populism is a part of democracy that happens the world over. In the UK people in poor Northern towns vote Labour as they offer more benefits yet no one would dare to call them uneducated. Like PTP voters are simply doing whats best for them and their families.

There is an imminent event I cant talk of that scares the shit out of the elite as they know it means the end of their reign holding 90% of the countries wealth. They will be sidelined and Thailand will change forever, Thats what this is really about but so please cut all the bullshit about reforms and real democracy as it simply shows you up as unable to see the wider picture.

[bkksteviejai]

I feel sorry for the Thai people. I can't envisage any scenario in which this ends well.

[soalbundy]

A consciousness of political reform - long present - has now been awakened. And once awake, it will not easily be put to sleep.

I couldnt agree more.

Thailand now has social mobility and the poor have a voice which they will not surrender without with hell of a fight. What we are witnessing is the death throes of a rich elite loosing grip on the wealth of the country who are also up for the fight but will inevitably loose.

Democracy will win this fight and the elite will loose it, offering a better and more equal future for the youth of the country. What is uncertain is how much blood will need to be shed before these sinister forces realise this.

One should, however, never underestimate the power of the establishment,it's silent and deadly,it may look like just so much smoke but it's as hard as concrete.

[soalbundy]

I feel sorry for the Thai people. I can't envisage any scenario in which this ends well.

They are trying to run before they can walk.Taking power from the mighty requires hundreds of years not ten.

[MrJohnson]

It is my opinion based on twenty plus years of living in Thailand and observing Thai politics. Talk to many of those in the yellow shirt camp to find that many do not believe in universal suffrage. Many believe that the folks in Isaan and the North are 'uneducated' and therefore not qualified to vote. And by the way, what is a beer coaster? If are are trying to belittle my opinions by suggesting that I am some kind of barfly, then you are only belittling yourself Good Sir. Read my posts on TV and you will find that they are generally thoughtfully crafted.

1st sorry if you where offended by the beer coaster dig, but why do you think beer coaster only exist in bars, I an not a beer drinker but have beer coaster for my Nam Som to stop the ice coming off the glasses I keep in the freezer from wetting every where

In my office a bear coster is used all the time for joting down quick noties

Now onto your remarks

Politics in Thailand has changed alot in 20 years, so I not understand your comment as you would know this .....

There are many who believe that in the old days Issan people where uneducated but I thing its time you got out and take a look at the real world in 2014 Maha Sarakham has 5 Universitiies (where my Thai wife achieved her Masters degree) so this throws that comment out the window in 2014

My beliefs and that of my friends that every one has the right to vote, but in 2014 it is about the freedom for people to learn why they must vote, and what it means to both them selves and the country

So if we are agree the problem is not with the people put the parties and PM who refuse the people to learn and stay politically uneducated so the people can be controlled

Sociallism is about making the people rely on hand outs in stead of the people being able to stand on their own two feet

If you want see this in affect look no further than Australia where for 6 years this has been the practice of a social government

I'm far too old to get offended that easily, although your remark, if not intended to suggest that I drink a lot, was intended to suggest that my comments were perhaps poorly conceived or were 'shoot from the hip'. If you read my comment carefully you will note that I am quoting the opinion of some yellow shirts on the relative education standards of many people from the N.E. And the North of Thailand and their consequent qualification to vote. Personally I do not subscribe to this view. Indeed I do believe in the principle of one person one vote. I am also well acquainted with the rise in the number of universities across the country and I am sure your wife is very clever as well.

I am not sure where socialism crept into the conversation. It is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the PRDC are trying to prevent the election of a government by the people. The idea of an appointed prime minister without consensus across all sides of politics and without a clearly articulated agenda and a strict timeframe should be rejected outright. If this is as good as the PRDC can do then they do not deserve to be an agent of change. They are reactionary. Bring on the election and let PRDC/Democrats stand up and be counted. It is time the Democrats travelled further north and north-east than Rangsit. They might just find that that is where the other half of the country is.

[tezzainoz]

It is my opinion based on twenty plus years of living in Thailand and observing Thai politics. Talk to many of those in the yellow shirt camp to find that many do not believe in universal suffrage. Many believe that the folks in Isaan and the North are 'uneducated' and therefore not qualified to vote. And by the way, what is a beer coaster? If are are trying to belittle my opinions by suggesting that I am some kind of barfly, then you are only belittling yourself Good Sir. Read my posts on TV and you will find that they are generally thoughtfully crafted.

1st sorry if you where offended by the beer coaster dig, but why do you think beer coaster only exist in bars, I an not a beer drinker but have beer coaster for my Nam Som to stop the ice coming off the glasses I keep in the freezer from wetting every where

In my office a bear coster is used all the time for joting down quick noties

Now onto your remarks

Politics in Thailand has changed alot in 20 years, so I not understand your comment as you would know this .....

There are many who believe that in the old days Issan people where uneducated but I thing its time you got out and take a look at the real world in 2014 Maha Sarakham has 5 Universitiies (where my Thai wife achieved her Masters degree) so this throws that comment out the window in 2014

My beliefs and that of my friends that every one has the right to vote, but in 2014 it is about the freedom for people to learn why they must vote, and what it means to both them selves and the country

So if we are agree the problem is not with the people put the parties and PM who refuse the people to learn and stay politically uneducated so the people can be controlled

Sociallism is about making the people rely on hand outs in stead of the people being able to stand on their own two feet

If you want see this in affect look no further than Australia where for 6 years this has been the practice of a social government

I'm far too old to get offended that easily, although your remark, if not intended to suggest that I drink a lot, was intended to suggest that my comments were perhaps poorly conceived or were 'shoot from the hip'. If you read my comment carefully you will note that I am quoting the opinion of some yellow shirts on the relative education standards of many people from the N.E. And the North of Thailand and their consequent qualification to vote. Personally I do not subscribe to this view. Indeed I do believe in the principle of one person one vote. I am also well acquainted with the rise in the number of universities across the country and I am sure your wife is very clever as well.

I am not sure where socialism crept into the conversation. It is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the PRDC are trying to prevent the election of a government by the people. The idea of an appointed prime minister without consensus across all sides of politics and without a clearly articulated agenda and a strict timeframe should be rejected outright. If this is as good as the PRDC can do then they do not deserve to be an agent of change. They are reactionary. Bring on the election and let PRDC/Democrats stand up and be counted. It is time the Democrats travelled further north and north-east than Rangsit. They might just find that that is where the other half of the country is.

It is not my intention to hijack this thread although it seems we have

so maybe we should do our disscussion through our private IPs and not bore the other members who come her

I can not disagree with you that some members of the now discontinued Yellow shirt have thought abut Issan people that just are not true, but of course a half empty glass is also half full so you must agree also some red shirts feel the same if not worse about the people in Bangkok who pay that wages of hundreds of people from Issan

Which now brings us to the problem at hand

If you read the comment from the senate, they are not planning to appoint a prime minister without consensus across all sides of politics

1) their is only 1 side in Power legally and that is the senate

2) Section 7 is so if the present situation happens the senate has a way to solve Thailand Problem

3) Thailand has no lower house , and no PM

This all together puts our beloved country in a state of political emptiness,

4) The idea of the senate appointing a temporary caretaker is to put the country into a state where fair election can be held

I had really started to enjoy our conversation until you blew it at the end

It is time the Democrats travelled further north and north-east than Rangsit. They might just find that that is where the other half of the country is.

This is the major part of the problem, the democrats are not allowed to do this

the reason for

Freedom of Speech before the next election

I welcome any further disscusion on this to my private IP address

[NanLaew]

double post

Edited May 17, 2014 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

...

It is time the Democrats travelled further north and north-east than Rangsit. They might just find that that is where the other half of the country is.

This is the major part of the problem, the democrats are not allowed to do this

the reason for

Freedom of Speech before the next election

I welcome any further disscusion on this to my private IP address

It is time the Democrats PTP travelled further north south and north-east south-west than Rangsit Pathum Thani. They might just find that that is where the other half of the country is.

This is the major part of the problem, the democrats PTP are not allowed to do this

the reason for

Freedom of Speech before after the next election

I welcome any further disscusion on this to my private IP address

Let's keep it here, in public.