Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[Oceanbat]

I should add I am planning on returning to singapore the 2nd week of June for a few days as well. And then will fly back to Thailand. The company will start the WP application process once I am on the ground

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Strangebrew]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

[Mario2008]

Now the kicker there will be a rash of lost or stolen passorts reported. Then a rush on immagration to restamp new passports in. Problem solved.

immigration will have no problems to spot this on their computers. They do not only rely on the passport number to identify you. As has been announced, soon they will add finger printing, making it even more difficult.

[JDGRUEN]

If Thai immigration wants to find people in Thailand without valid Visas and Work Permits... and if they will pay my way back to Koh Samui and Ao Nang, Krabi (from where I just returned) - I will walk with them down the streets and point out several thousands of such criminals in both of those resort areas. Let's see who will they find with no valid papers? Well - they will find lots and lots of guys from Myanmar (who often say they are from Nepal - as is that makes any difference), plus quite a number from India and even some Mid East Countries. And the Thai immigration folks will also find many Europeans, Americans and Aussies working the travel shops. Hmmmm? How did all these people get Work Permits and the supporting Visas which allow the WP's? Oh - you mean they likely do not have either - HOW SHOCKING!!! Why are these people there? Well it seems the common denominator is that to a great or lesser degree they can speak English to the tourists. What would happen if all these folks were removed or prevented from entering? Big Economic problems for the resorts that is what would happen --- and that is why it will not happen either. If the great majority of these people I just observed in Koh Samui and Ao Nang are here in Thailand legally and working legally - then someone please correct me -- I will stand corrected if believable information is presented.

I have to add to my own post... The glaring factor to hundreds - even thousands of people from Myanmar standing in front of shops in coastal and island resort areas hawking services and wares is that if somehow they had a valid Visa and WP - how is it that they could hold jobs so obviously in competition with Thai citizens that anyone would ever believe they are here legally? And it is easy to find out if they are Thai or not - even though they look like Thais in general? ... Answer - They most often cannot speak a word of Thai and don't even try. So - they are easy to spot -- just speak Thai to them when they are speaking broken English - then you ask them where they are from - Answer - Myanmar ... Wow! the Lies, Lies and more Lies of Thai Immigration... "We are going to crack down' - except where certain financial interest is concerned (caveat)...

[samran]

Hi everyone,

Reading this thread has made me a little concerned. Here's my scenario:

I was working in singapore on an EP up until last Friday. I have changed company and they have transferred over my singapore EP to my new company. This company is a Malaysian bank and they are going to seconder me to the thai office for 1 year with a 1 July start date. I was in Thailand for 1 day about 2 weeks ago and took down an apartment and the lease will commence 19th may. I am leaving singapore on 19th of may to move into my place with my wife and son (she is thai). I am flying back to singapore on 22nd may for a meeting then back to Thailand on the 23rd. I'm a bit worried as although I won't be working in Thailand until 1 July I will be going back and forth trying to get everything settled.

Any thoughts?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Surely just sorting out a non immigrant O visa based on marriage to a Thai wife is all you need? Isn't this what this should be all about, people getting the correct visas so they don't get caught out?

[phuketrichard]

You want facts , I'll give you facts .And this is mainly directed at the ones who posted that this is a great system without a hitch.

I'm 55 yrs.old .Never been to thailand in my life but had thought about retiring there. (Yes I am presently retired.)Anyway before making the leap I naturally wanted to see the country . So about four months ago I applied for a double entry visa from my home in the U.S. I received it and off I went. Now from what I understood is that I would enter, and before sixty days were up I would apply for a thirty day extension. Then before the extension ended ,a few days or so ,I would leave the country and reenter because I had a tourist visa. A dble entry tourist visa. That's,,, tourist , visa .

Well I received my extension with no problem.

Now to keep you up to speed I really liked thailand and decided that it would make a good retirement location and was planning to reenter on the dble entry and apply for the ''retirement'' visa.Get my affadavit from the consulate, proof of income, fill out the documents etc.

After three months I had seen enough and felt content.

On this past Tuesday a week before my extension ended I crossed the border to reenter.I had left all my luggage and personal belongings at my room I had been renting and only took the nec. documents along to present to the fine ,honest, intelligent, uncorrupt immigration officials.

(By the way not that it should make a difference, but I 've been staying in Chiang Mai.)

Now what do you think happened??? They refused to let me back in.

I was dressed well, clean shaven , very presentable and polite.My papers were in order . But regardless ,the interrogation began. And it was'nt pleasant .They accused me of working illegally and/or attempting to seek employment. They wanted to see my itinerary. Why I was in thailand to begin with, where I was staying, who did i know there, how much money I had.(I had about 6000 bht with me). ,etc.etc., This #$^% went on for an hour. They ultimately said ...no.Partly because I opted to rent a studio apartment rather than stay at a hotel ! Renting a studio apt. evidently removes one from''tourist'' status!!

Oh they wanted to see money, alot of money! And I got the feeling that a bribe was being suggested, more than once.

Now at that point I was livid. but I 've read enough to know you don't get angry. So I politely asked to speak to someone in charge. Which i finally did. And to tell you the truth I would have said fine and the hel with thailand, but all my belongings were at the room I was renting. The guy finally allowed me to enter ,this took oh about 5 hrs total.

Now I'm in this sewer of a country and will not be staying. I am completely disgusted with the place . I'm not a deadbeat . I am a retired police officer with a very nice pension. But this whole thing transpired because some idiot at immigration ''suspected'' I was working. did you get that..................... ''s u s p e c t e d''. Regardless of my tourist visa that I had been issued, by his Embassy.

And that is the entire problem, all they have to do is suspect someone .And a few intelligent posters get that here. Some jerk at immigration has a bug up his or her behind and that clown decides not to let you enter ,because they use the ''suspect'' card and accuse you to be working illegally or whatever reason..they ''feel''.at the time .It does'nt matter what visa you have. Way too much power to give to immigration ''officers'' with regards to enforcing a very vague rule.

The lunatic asylum has handed the keys over to the patients and it's going to be bad for everyone ,honest and dishonest forieghners alike.

sorry; i dont buy it, first post and this>>>>>

Been here ( on non o or non B visas) since 1991 and on tourist visas previous to that since 1984

Never, ever had any trouble at any immigration, border or airport.

[Oceanbat]

The company HR is going to be organizing my visa but in the interim I was just going to chill and get the fam settled.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Mychoicetobehere]

With all these new rules coming in i think there will be a lot more people on overstay.

And that will be the next thing they will be targeting.

Either way i dont care. none ofthis affects me.

What new rules?

[Suradit69]

How can you deport someone who has not yet entered the country?

Or did I missed something...

if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported,

Yes, you missed where he said "working illegally in Thailand," which would imply that the person was in Thailand and working.

[JB300]

Hi everyone,

Reading this thread has made me a little concerned. Here's my scenario:

I was working in singapore on an EP up until last Friday. I have changed company and they have transferred over my singapore EP to my new company. This company is a Malaysian bank and they are going to seconder me to the thai office for 1 year with a 1 July start date. I was in Thailand for 1 day about 2 weeks ago and took down an apartment and the lease will commence 19th may. I am leaving singapore on 19th of may to move into my place with my wife and son (she is thai). I am flying back to singapore on 22nd may for a meeting then back to Thailand on the 23rd. I'm a bit worried as although I won't be working in Thailand until 1 July I will be going back and forth trying to get everything settled.

Any thoughts?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Take any and all paper work with you. Just everything even how un-important it may seem.

If you are legally married to your Thai wife, makes sure you also can prove that.

Second this, take every piece of paperwork you have, including new & previous employment contracts but you should be ok as your record will show you popping in for a couple of days (plus they're not supposed to be clamping down on people arriving by air until August).

1 point, you cannot transfer an EP (it belongs to the company not you and only covers you to work for that company) so you'll need to have made arrangements to settle your Tax (normally previous Employer withholds the last months pay to cover it) before you're cleared to leave Singapore.

Edited May 17, 2014 by JB300

[Oceanbat]

Thanks, yep all paid up

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Oceanbat]

Sorry, transfer = new EP applied for and approved in Singapore

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[samran]

If Thai immigration wants to find people in Thailand without valid Visas and Work Permits... and if they will pay my way back to Koh Samui and Ao Nang, Krabi (from where I just returned) - I will walk with them down the streets and point out several thousands of such criminals in both of those resort areas. Let's see who will they find with no valid papers? Well - they will find lots and lots of guys from Myanmar (who often say they are from Nepal - as is that makes any difference), plus quite a number from India and even some Mid East Countries. And the Thai immigration folks will also find many Europeans, Americans and Aussies working the travel shops. Hmmmm? How did all these people get Work Permits and the supporting Visas which allow the WP's? Oh - you mean they likely do not have either - HOW SHOCKING!!! Why are these people there? Well it seems the common denominator is that to a great or lesser degree they can speak English to the tourists. What would happen if all these folks were removed or prevented from entering? Big Economic problems for the resorts that is what would happen --- and that is why it will not happen either. If the great majority of these people I just observed in Koh Samui and Ao Nang are here in Thailand legally and working legally - then someone please correct me -- I will stand corrected if believable information is presented.

I have to add to my own post... The glaring factor to hundreds - even thousands of people from Myanmar standing in front of shops in coastal and island resort areas hawking services and wares is that if somehow they had a valid Visa and WP - how is it that they could hold jobs so obviously in competition with Thai citizens that anyone would ever believe they are here legally? And it is easy to find out if they are Thai or not - even though they look like Thais in general? ... Answer - They most often cannot speak a word of Thai and don't even try. So - they are easy to spot -- just speak Thai to them when they are speaking broken English - then you ask them where they are from - Answer - Myanmar ... Wow! the Lies, Lies and more Lies of Thai Immigration... "We are going to crack down' - except where certain financial interest is concerned (caveat)...

Myanmar loas and Cambodian citizens get migrant labour permits which are fairly straight forward to get and don't require the 4 to 1 ratio for work permits.

[IMA_FARANG]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

-----------------

Why can they not get a tourist visa?

Years ago, I worked on a oil survey ship offshore from Singapore.

I did a 6 week on ship, and 3 week off work cycle.

The company I worked for (Singaporean) staged us on and off shift through Singapore.

We were usually flown by helicopter from the ship to Singapore, where we were paid off for that work period.

It was easy enough to get a hotel in Singapore, and then apply at the Thai consulate in Singapore.

At the max two days in Singapore at a (relatively) cheap hotel.

(There was then a hotel with a lot of Thai "professional" girls that sat around in the hotel restaurant for 'entertainment" purposes.)

I would then come to Thailand on that tourist visa.

Why can't they do that today? (Even if the "professionals" are no longer there).

I made enough then in my 6 week stints working on that survey ship (free food and shared two man quarters on board) to pay for my 3 week binges in Thailand.

Edited May 17, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[Soutpeel]

If Thai immigration wants to find people in Thailand without valid Visas and Work Permits... and if they will pay my way back to Koh Samui and Ao Nang, Krabi (from where I just returned) - I will walk with them down the streets and point out several thousands of such criminals in both of those resort areas. Let's see who will they find with no valid papers? Well - they will find lots and lots of guys from Myanmar (who often say they are from Nepal - as is that makes any difference), plus quite a number from India and even some Mid East Countries. And the Thai immigration folks will also find many Europeans, Americans and Aussies working the travel shops. Hmmmm? How did all these people get Work Permits and the supporting Visas which allow the WP's? Oh - you mean they likely do not have either - HOW SHOCKING!!! Why are these people there? Well it seems the common denominator is that to a great or lesser degree they can speak English to the tourists. What would happen if all these folks were removed or prevented from entering? Big Economic problems for the resorts that is what would happen --- and that is why it will not happen either. If the great majority of these people I just observed in Koh Samui and Ao Nang are here in Thailand legally and working legally - then someone please correct me -- I will stand corrected if believable information is presented.

I have to add to my own post... The glaring factor to hundreds - even thousands of people from Myanmar standing in front of shops in coastal and island resort areas hawking services and wares is that if somehow they had a valid Visa and WP - how is it that they could hold jobs so obviously in competition with Thai citizens that anyone would ever believe they are here legally? And it is easy to find out if they are Thai or not - even though they look like Thais in general? ... Answer - They most often cannot speak a word of Thai and don't even try. So - they are easy to spot -- just speak Thai to them when they are speaking broken English - then you ask them where they are from - Answer - Myanmar ... Wow! the Lies, Lies and more Lies of Thai Immigration... "We are going to crack down' - except where certain financial interest is concerned (caveat)...

Myanmar loas and Cambodian citizens get migrant labour permits which are fairly straight forward to get and don't require the 4 to 1 ratio for work permits.

suppose you should get ready for the howls of protest, claims of racism and that westerners are being discriminated against because they need the 4:1 ratio to get a WP...

[Mychoicetobehere]

You want facts , I'll give you facts .And this is mainly directed at the ones who posted that this is a great system without a hitch.

I'm 55 yrs.old .Never been to thailand in my life but had thought about retiring there. (Yes I am presently retired.)Anyway before making the leap I naturally wanted to see the country . So about four months ago I applied for a double entry visa from my home in the U.S. I received it and off I went. Now from what I understood is that I would enter, and before sixty days were up I would apply for a thirty day extension. Then before the extension ended ,a few days or so ,I would leave the country and reenter because I had a tourist visa. A dble entry tourist visa. That's,,, tourist , visa .

Well I received my extension with no problem.

Now to keep you up to speed I really liked thailand and decided that it would make a good retirement location and was planning to reenter on the dble entry and apply for the ''retirement'' visa.Get my affadavit from the consulate, proof of income, fill out the documents etc.

After three months I had seen enough and felt content.

On this past Tuesday a week before my extension ended I crossed the border to reenter.I had left all my luggage and personal belongings at my room I had been renting and only took the nec. documents along to present to the fine ,honest, intelligent, uncorrupt immigration officials.

(By the way not that it should make a difference, but I 've been staying in Chiang Mai.)

Now what do you think happened??? They refused to let me back in.

I was dressed well, clean shaven , very presentable and polite.My papers were in order . But regardless ,the interrogation began. And it was'nt pleasant .They accused me of working illegally and/or attempting to seek employment. They wanted to see my itinerary. Why I was in thailand to begin with, where I was staying, who did i know there, how much money I had.(I had about 6000 bht with me). ,etc.etc., This #$^% went on for an hour. They ultimately said ...no.Partly because I opted to rent a studio apartment rather than stay at a hotel ! Renting a studio apt. evidently removes one from''tourist'' status!!

Oh they wanted to see money, alot of money! And I got the feeling that a bribe was being suggested, more than once.

Now at that point I was livid. but I 've read enough to know you don't get angry. So I politely asked to speak to someone in charge. Which i finally did. And to tell you the truth I would have said fine and the hel with thailand, but all my belongings were at the room I was renting. The guy finally allowed me to enter ,this took oh about 5 hrs total.

Now I'm in this sewer of a country and will not be staying. I am completely disgusted with the place . I'm not a deadbeat . I am a retired police officer with a very nice pension. But this whole thing transpired because some idiot at immigration ''suspected'' I was working. did you get that..................... ''s u s p e c t e d''. Regardless of my tourist visa that I had been issued, by his Embassy.

And that is the entire problem, all they have to do is suspect someone .And a few intelligent posters get that here. Some jerk at immigration has a bug up his or her behind and that clown decides not to let you enter ,because they use the ''suspect'' card and accuse you to be working illegally or whatever reason..they ''feel''.at the time .It does'nt matter what visa you have. Way too much power to give to immigration ''officers'' with regards to enforcing a very vague rule.

The lunatic asylum has handed the keys over to the patients and it's going to be bad for everyone ,honest and dishonest forieghners alike.

sorry; i dont buy it, first post and this>>>>>

Been here ( on non o or non B visas) since 1991 and on tourist visas previous to that since 1984

Never, ever had any trouble at any immigration, border or airport.

Try getting into your home country if the immigration officer "suspects" your motive. My wife and I were held by your immigration officials in 1998 because we flew to your wonderful country on a charter flight full of Saga old age pensioners and we were quite a bit younger than the rest of the travellers. We did not have any plans for our stay in your wonderful country and were treated like a pair of criminals. Our luggage was searched and we were searched. We were questioned about why were visiting, where were we planning to go and what did we plan to do during our stay and why did we not have any hotels booked for our stay. My wife was a very well paid computer analyst and I was a company director. This was a long time before your homeland security stepped up several gears (justifiable) but I would still go back if I had the opportunity. Thailand has its faults but so does every country. Immigration officers in just about every country have an enormous amount of power and rightly so. I did not brand your USA as a shithole of a country because an official was doing what he was paid to do and IMHO neither should you, but that is your choice. Don't blame the Thais..It's the few that abuse the system that are at fault. By the way We enjoyed our US stay as I am sure you would enjoy your Thai one if you got this border "hiccup" out of your mind. Up to you.

[Mychoicetobehere]

With all these new rules coming in i think there will be a lot more people on overstay.

And that will be the next thing they will be targeting.

Either way i dont care. none ofthis affects me.

What new rules?

[shadowfyr39]

I've been in Thailand since Sept 2012 with my common law spouse, she is a Lao National.We are both using Tourist visas and did some in/out runs. I currently have a Permanent resident application for Canada in progress in Singapore under the Common law family class sponsorship for my spouse. I am a Canadian citizen by birth. We have an interview letter from CIC but it may be another 20 months. We did not marry in Laos due the lengthy, expensive and difficult procedure. We prefer to marry in Canada. We do not work in Thailand but only wait for our interview from CIC. My spouse is now 3 months pregnant and we would like her to give birth at a private hospital in Thailand. So now if we return to Laos we both risk imprisonment and hefty fines and I may get deported should we return. It's a possibility! We are financially able to cover all our costs here in Thailand. Getting her a Education Visa is not guaranteed by MOE or the English school and we may lose the entire fee if we apply and are denied.

We are both very concerned about this Immigration crackdown as are many others. We wanted to share our story so please be kind with any responses you may have. It's difficult enough as it stands.

[Concerned expat]

Hello to all law abiding genuine expats / semi-retired in Thailand:

Who knows how we could be prevented from the extraction of bribes by I.O. and / or from being arrested if a "small gift towards the lunch of I.O." would appear as to small? In many countries an attempt to bribe foreign official is considered to be a crime.

I have visited Cambodia only once and stayed there for a night just to have a different day for entry just to have a feel towards full retirement later. Seen many people who were doing it just to get another visa to live in the "Land of Smiles". Many people come from Europe or North America to spent winter in Thailand.

I got couple of condos with current "Blue Books" and need to know if Immigration department somehow communicated with other Thai Government areas as foreign investments or similar. Being on Fly In - Fly Out contracts with few visits to Thailand in 1 year. Does this make me a subject for a suspicion???

Why on earth anyone who is paid real money would even think of working in Thailand for some peanuts?

I can understand the feeling of jealousy from I.O. towards certified professionals, but why any chartered specialist should be providing additional proof on NO NEED for any work in Thailand?

What about the international principle on PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE?

Should any abuses of power from IO be reported to UN as violation of human rights?

Who knows contact email for a senior management at Immigration Office?

Who knows contact emails for raising the issues with reputable public media?

How any "farang" would consider investment into a new condo under construction without a certainty of being able to obtain visas without any problems?

Many posts as well as posts #104 and #113 from Ronthai / Post #107 from Chrisinth looked interesting to me.

So far it appears as "shooting own foot" with ill prepared statement. I agree about difficulties with Australian, EU, UK or US immigration, but could not see real relevance to the cost of labor as in Thailand.

[pxlgirl]

as the other thread was closed, I'd like to continue the convo on non-B visa/BOI... So, from what I understood, you pay them some money (I'm guessing some larger investment + a monthly fee for accounting), you get a non-B + your own work permit and that it might be an option for freelancers, is that right? Now, the problem is that as a freelancer, you don't always have a steady income, so that might be a problem? Or it's no big deal unless you can pay the fee? Hope it's not too OT

[roxnadz]

I'm watching this with great interest.

My girlfriend and I use double-entry tourist visas each year to get 6 months' stay each winter. I'm a DJ, producer, and writer, and the funds I earn abroad are what finance my stays in the Kingdom. When we're in Thailand the most work we do is watch videos on YouTube and take photos. We rent a beach house there. I'm 42, she's 59. She is not interested in a Non-OA because she is not interested in putting that much money in a Thai bank just for the (now seemingly uncertain) privilege of staying in the Kingdom. I obviously don't qualify because of my age, and also believe coughing up $25K+ in a low-interest bank account isn't the smartest investment.

We typically enter the country before the holidays and bounce the first entry after about two months. When the 90 days are up, we fly back to the USA to handle business, visit family, and get back to Thailand for our second 90-day frame. After that, we head east back to the USA and Europe for the summer, then come back west, eventually ending back up in Thailand at the start of the winter season.

We've had no problems entering the country and bouncing our visa each year to get nearly 90 days per entry. The last time we were in the country, however, was May 8 - the day the crackdown apparently started. We've never been asked a question, despite us both having numerous tourist visas in our passports.

We love Thailand, good and bad. Our plan is to do the same thing we did this winter for next winter, though not as long as we have in previous years. However, if they are gonna start grilling folks and randomly refusing entry because they think we're all coming there to work illegally, there are many other places we can go. Vietnam is certainly on the menu, as are Laos and certain countries in South America. We're not conventional tourists, we don't like package tours, and we rarely ever stay in hotels. That's just how we roll. If that's not good enough for Thailand, then see ya, I guess!

I just find it funny that this is happening now, when the government is in complete disarray and the PM can't even show his face because of all the protests. I've had to convince several friends that no, this place isn't a war zone yet, and to please come. I was planning on inviting a couple dozen friends to visit us this coming winter. If they want to limit that in the scope of preventing illegal employment, their prerogative, but I'll take the 500k baht I bring into the country somewhere else.

The sad thing is that this affects Thais more than anyone. The broke farangs will just go somewhere else. My landlord (and friend) runs a resort. Business has already been *really* bad this year. This just seems like absolutely the wrong time to try and do such a thing.

[Thai at Heart]

You want facts , I'll give you facts .And this is mainly directed at the ones who posted that this is a great system without a hitch.

I'm 55 yrs.old .Never been to thailand in my life but had thought about retiring there. (Yes I am presently retired.)Anyway before making the leap I naturally wanted to see the country . So about four months ago I applied for a double entry visa from my home in the U.S. I received it and off I went. Now from what I understood is that I would enter, and before sixty days were up I would apply for a thirty day extension. Then before the extension ended ,a few days or so ,I would leave the country and reenter because I had a tourist visa. A dble entry tourist visa. That's,,, tourist , visa .

Well I received my extension with no problem.

Now to keep you up to speed I really liked thailand and decided that it would make a good retirement location and was planning to reenter on the dble entry and apply for the ''retirement'' visa.Get my affadavit from the consulate, proof of income, fill out the documents etc.

After three months I had seen enough and felt content.

On this past Tuesday a week before my extension ended I crossed the border to reenter.I had left all my luggage and personal belongings at my room I had been renting and only took the nec. documents along to present to the fine ,honest, intelligent, uncorrupt immigration officials.

(By the way not that it should make a difference, but I 've been staying in Chiang Mai.)

Now what do you think happened??? They refused to let me back in.

I was dressed well, clean shaven , very presentable and polite.My papers were in order . But regardless ,the interrogation began. And it was'nt pleasant .They accused me of working illegally and/or attempting to seek employment. They wanted to see my itinerary. Why I was in thailand to begin with, where I was staying, who did i know there, how much money I had.(I had about 6000 bht with me). ,etc.etc., This #$^% went on for an hour. They ultimately said ...no.Partly because I opted to rent a studio apartment rather than stay at a hotel ! Renting a studio apt. evidently removes one from''tourist'' status!!

Oh they wanted to see money, alot of money! And I got the feeling that a bribe was being suggested, more than once.

Now at that point I was livid. but I 've read enough to know you don't get angry. So I politely asked to speak to someone in charge. Which i finally did. And to tell you the truth I would have said fine and the hel with thailand, but all my belongings were at the room I was renting. The guy finally allowed me to enter ,this took oh about 5 hrs total.

Now I'm in this sewer of a country and will not be staying. I am completely disgusted with the place . I'm not a deadbeat . I am a retired police officer with a very nice pension. But this whole thing transpired because some idiot at immigration ''suspected'' I was working. did you get that..................... ''s u s p e c t e d''. Regardless of my tourist visa that I had been issued, by his Embassy.

And that is the entire problem, all they have to do is suspect someone .And a few intelligent posters get that here. Some jerk at immigration has a bug up his or her behind and that clown decides not to let you enter ,because they use the ''suspect'' card and accuse you to be working illegally or whatever reason..they ''feel''.at the time .It does'nt matter what visa you have. Way too much power to give to immigration ''officers'' with regards to enforcing a very vague rule.

The lunatic asylum has handed the keys over to the patients and it's going to be bad for everyone ,honest and dishonest forieghners alike.

Lets see you had a great time in Thailand and were prepared to live here but because of a bad experience at immigration, which if true was uncalled for, Thailand is a sewer all because of one guy. Sounds like a anti-Thai rant to me.

You have obviously never fallen foul of a dumb person, implementing dumb rules with a rubber stamp.in their hand.

And as a police officer you never abused your position or acted high and mighty over any member of the public you so dilligently served? You sound too sensitive and get too easily hurt to survive the realism of living in Thailand. I am retired here and once you get settled down it is great. Choose wisely where you live. The police and the local immigration officials around here (Surin/Kap Choeng) are great. Never had a single problem.

Mate,I survived 18 years in a town where there were a handful of farang and now there are 100s.

I left recently actually for the sake of my family. Which I suppose on terms of schooling equates rather perfectly to suffering the control of idiots with rubber stamps and stupid rules.

As a retirement place, good luck. If you bare happy appearing every few months to immigrations and the such.

I'm off and away, and won't be back for a long time. Anyone want to buy a large family home in the downtown of a provincial city. Fully furnished?

[marine1]

I'm all for the Thai Immigration enforcing whatever rules they have in place concerning their own entery/exit requirements. I just do not see the need to complain about it - it's their country for pete's sake!

I've only been to Thailand 2 times in the last 10 years (once for a week/once for a month) on 30 day exempt entries (both times in 2013). However, am a bit concerned coming back in December of this year (by air from PI where I am retired). I planned to come over and enter on a 30 day exempt, change to an O-Visa, followed by the 12 month extension based on retirement. What guarantee do I have that I will be allowed in in the first place? I've made my "one exempt entry by air" end of last year.

Only issue I have with this whole topic is that the rules in place are open to too much interpretation. Now maybe that is what they intended to happen I don't know. I think determining wether a person is a genuine tourist or not takes a little more than checking bank statements, hotel reservations, etc. By the way - what is wrong with renting a condo for your stay as a tourist? They're cheaper than many hotels for the same amount of time. I fail to see how that plays into their 'adjuticating' anyone's status as well.

[gemguy]

Hi everyone,

Reading this thread has made me a little concerned. Here's my scenario:

I was working in singapore on an EP up until last Friday. I have changed company and they have transferred over my singapore EP to my new company. This company is a Malaysian bank and they are going to seconder me to the thai office for 1 year with a 1 July start date. I was in Thailand for 1 day about 2 weeks ago and took down an apartment and the lease will commence 19th may. I am leaving singapore on 19th of may to move into my place with my wife and son (she is thai). I am flying back to singapore on 22nd may for a meeting then back to Thailand on the 23rd. I'm a bit worried as although I won't be working in Thailand until 1 July I will be going back and forth trying to get everything settled.

Any thoughts?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Simply make sure or demand the Thai office helps you to arrange the proper visa and the work permit for you.

Continually insist that they take care of those matters and do not budge on your position.

They will try to tell you: "Never Mind , Do not worry"..... and if an when you do have a problem I can assure you the Thais will make like they are innocent and put the blame on you.

The {onus} is on the Thai Company and the Thai management of that company to help you arrange the proper working visa ( Non immigrant "B" ) that allows you to apply for the work permit.

Do not ever allow them to tell you it is your responsibility when it is their responsibility to accommodate you and facilitate you with the necessary Corporate documents that allows you to obtain a "B" visa for the purpose of employment with that company.

It is a matter of gathering up all the required documents ( a lot of documents ) while they apply for a Non Immigrant "B" Visa on your behalf.

The problem usually lies with the Thai company workers or lets say the legal department of the company finding the time and making the effort to gather up all the documents and obtain the signatures or corporate stamps needed relative to the demands of the Immigration department so you can receive the proper Visa.

For most companies it is a big headache and everyone involved is very reluctant to comply with all the details and paper work and the effort involved...so commonly they just let you work without the proper Visa and or the work permit while telling you," Do not worry and nothing will happen"...and remember...do not worry..nah

The best way is to use a Visa agent who will receive the Thai Company documents, all in good order, with all the signatures needed and they will apply for your Non immigrant "B" visa.

In theory you are supposed to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and submit all the company related documents to the Thai Embassy while you apply for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" Visa that will allow you to come back into Thailand on that 90 day Non immigrant "B" Visa.

While you are on that 90 day visa you would then apply for a 1 year Non immigrant "B" visa, inside Thailand ( at Changwatana Immigration Center) requiring all the same documents as before ( and maybe a few more documents ) to receive the 1 year Non Immigrant "B" visa.

When you receive that 1 year "B" visa then you can apply for the work permit at the labor department and be subjected to their kind of bureaucracy also.

Often enough many people do this all by themselves but because it is such an effort and big hassle it is best to use a visa agent and MAKE the Thai Company pay for everything involved...even if it means leaving the country and going to any Thai Embassy to apply for the 90 non immigrant "B" visa and then come back to Thailand on that Visa.

Usually ..for a price..... the Visa agent will arrange everything ( inside ) Thailand and no need to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and chance being turned down...because of some minor or possibly major discrepancy in the paper work involved

You would not be the first to be turned down because some one did not include all the proper documentation or signatures while you believed everything is in order and off you go to say Singapore or Kuala Lumpur and show up at the Thai Embassy to learn some aspect of your documentation is not correct and they reject your application for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" visa

Meantime you can sill stay in Thailand on the tourist visa while the company arranges the proper ( Non Immigrant "B" ) visa for working purposes.

I suggest you give them a document that says you will not work in the office until all your visa arrangements and the work permit is taken care of by the Thai management.

If not, just stay at home and collect your wages but do not come to work and force your position upon the Thai management.

You would probably never get into any trouble if you did work without a proper visa and or the work permit.....but it is up to you and or how comfortable or uncomfortable you feel concerning working without the proper Visa or work permit.

All in all, they do not make it easy or streamlined to obtain a Non Immigrant "B" visa and or the work permit.

Edited May 17, 2014 by gemguy

[stevenl]

I'm all for the Thai Immigration enforcing whatever rules they have in place concerning their own entery/exit requirements. I just do not see the need to complain about it - it's their country for pete's sake!

I've only been to Thailand 2 times in the last 10 years (once for a week/once for a month) on 30 day exempt entries (both times in 2013). However, am a bit concerned coming back in December of this year (by air from PI where I am retired). I planned to come over and enter on a 30 day exempt, change to an O-Visa, followed by the 12 month extension based on retirement. What guarantee do I have that I will be allowed in in the first place? I've made my "one exempt entry by air" end of last year.

Only issue I have with this whole topic is that the rules in place are open to too much interpretation. Now maybe that is what they intended to happen I don't know. I think determining wether a person is a genuine tourist or not takes a little more than checking bank statements, hotel reservations, etc. By the way - what is wrong with renting a condo for your stay as a tourist? They're cheaper than many hotels for the same amount of time. I fail to see how that plays into their 'adjuticating' anyone's status as well.

No problem at all for you to enter.

[Thai at Heart]

I'm all for the Thai Immigration enforcing whatever rules they have in place concerning their own entery/exit requirements. I just do not see the need to complain about it - it's their country for pete's sake!

I've only been to Thailand 2 times in the last 10 years (once for a week/once for a month) on 30 day exempt entries (both times in 2013). However, am a bit concerned coming back in December of this year (by air from PI where I am retired). I planned to come over and enter on a 30 day exempt, change to an O-Visa, followed by the 12 month extension based on retirement. What guarantee do I have that I will be allowed in in the first place? I've made my "one exempt entry by air" end of last year.

Only issue I have with this whole topic is that the rules in place are open to too much interpretation. Now maybe that is what they intended to happen I don't know. I think determining wether a person is a genuine tourist or not takes a little more than checking bank statements, hotel reservations, etc. By the way - what is wrong with renting a condo for your stay as a tourist? They're cheaper than many hotels for the same amount of time. I fail to see how that plays into their 'adjuticating' anyone's status as well.

Don't know. Its their rules. Stop complaining.

Duh.

[TimInThai]

Gentlemen and Ladies....

I would appreciate your input into my situation.

I've been in LOS for about 2.5 years. Up until now, I've been doing In andin and outs, with 2 tourist visas thrown in a year or so ago.

I work as a substitute teacher for AYC and travel all over the country to jobs.

Several month ago, I decided to go ahead and get the afidavit from the US Embassy and work on getting the retirement visa(I'm 57). Well, after putting it off, and never really wanting to use the funds to make the trip, I now find myself in a mess with the new crackdown.

I am leaving in a few hours for a one month trip to Nakhon Si Thamarrat, and had planned to take a trip to Penang to get the tourist visa and start the retirement visa process.

Now, today, I'm reading on TV that I may end up stuck in Malaysia if I can't show proof coming back in that I'm an actual tourist. I have no money to buy any airline tickets, and no 20000 Baht to show and a whole bunch of visa exemption stamps in my passport that make it pretty obvious that I'm not an actual tourist.

Overstay is starting to look better and better.... Any suggestions?

[Tomtomtom69]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

At this time I think the AEC is a distant dream for Thailand given the political situation. Perhaps the other countries should push ahead with AEC and leave the Thais to sort out their mess before they join.

There are only a few types of occupations that ASEAN citizens will be able to work in allowing for the so-called "freedom of movement" that they propose.There is NO proposal for a Schengen style freedom of movement of persons and in any case, language requirements will also act as restrictions to finding employment in neighboring ASEAN member states as is currently the case in Europe. So overall, AEC won't change much, therefore no need for the hype.

[marine1]

I'm all for the Thai Immigration enforcing whatever rules they have in place concerning their own entery/exit requirements. I just do not see the need to complain about it - it's their country for pete's sake!

I've only been to Thailand 2 times in the last 10 years (once for a week/once for a month) on 30 day exempt entries (both times in 2013). However, am a bit concerned coming back in December of this year (by air from PI where I am retired). I planned to come over and enter on a 30 day exempt, change to an O-Visa, followed by the 12 month extension based on retirement. What guarantee do I have that I will be allowed in in the first place? I've made my "one exempt entry by air" end of last year.

Only issue I have with this whole topic is that the rules in place are open to too much interpretation. Now maybe that is what they intended to happen I don't know. I think determining wether a person is a genuine tourist or not takes a little more than checking bank statements, hotel reservations, etc. By the way - what is wrong with renting a condo for your stay as a tourist? They're cheaper than many hotels for the same amount of time. I fail to see how that plays into their 'adjuticating' anyone's status as well.

Don't know. Its their rules. Stop complaining.

Duh.

Ahhh thanks for explaining it so succinctly. You've been a big help.

[gemguy]

You want facts , I'll give you facts .And this is mainly directed at the ones who posted that this is a great system without a hitch.

I'm 55 yrs.old .Never been to thailand in my life but had thought about retiring there. (Yes I am presently retired.)Anyway before making the leap I naturally wanted to see the country . So about four months ago I applied for a double entry visa from my home in the U.S. I received it and off I went. Now from what I understood is that I would enter, and before sixty days were up I would apply for a thirty day extension. Then before the extension ended ,a few days or so ,I would leave the country and reenter because I had a tourist visa. A dble entry tourist visa. That's,,, tourist , visa .

Well I received my extension with no problem.

Now to keep you up to speed I really liked thailand and decided that it would make a good retirement location and was planning to reenter on the dble entry and apply for the ''retirement'' visa.Get my affadavit from the consulate, proof of income, fill out the documents etc.

After three months I had seen enough and felt content.

On this past Tuesday a week before my extension ended I crossed the border to reenter.I had left all my luggage and personal belongings at my room I had been renting and only took the nec. documents along to present to the fine ,honest, intelligent, uncorrupt immigration officials.

(By the way not that it should make a difference, but I 've been staying in Chiang Mai.)

Now what do you think happened??? They refused to let me back in.

I was dressed well, clean shaven , very presentable and polite.My papers were in order . But regardless ,the interrogation began. And it was'nt pleasant .They accused me of working illegally and/or attempting to seek employment. They wanted to see my itinerary. Why I was in thailand to begin with, where I was staying, who did i know there, how much money I had.(I had about 6000 bht with me). ,etc.etc., This #$^% went on for an hour. They ultimately said ...no.Partly because I opted to rent a studio apartment rather than stay at a hotel ! Renting a studio apt. evidently removes one from''tourist'' status!!

Oh they wanted to see money, alot of money! And I got the feeling that a bribe was being suggested, more than once.

Now at that point I was livid. but I 've read enough to know you don't get angry. So I politely asked to speak to someone in charge. Which i finally did. And to tell you the truth I would have said fine and the hel with thailand, but all my belongings were at the room I was renting. The guy finally allowed me to enter ,this took oh about 5 hrs total.

Now I'm in this sewer of a country and will not be staying. I am completely disgusted with the place . I'm not a deadbeat . I am a retired police officer with a very nice pension. But this whole thing transpired because some idiot at immigration ''suspected'' I was working. did you get that..................... ''s u s p e c t e d''. Regardless of my tourist visa that I had been issued, by his Embassy.

And that is the entire problem, all they have to do is suspect someone .And a few intelligent posters get that here. Some jerk at immigration has a bug up his or her behind and that clown decides not to let you enter ,because they use the ''suspect'' card and accuse you to be working illegally or whatever reason..they ''feel''.at the time .It does'nt matter what visa you have. Way too much power to give to immigration ''officers'' with regards to enforcing a very vague rule.

The lunatic asylum has handed the keys over to the patients and it's going to be bad for everyone ,honest and dishonest forieghners alike.

It is because you crossed the border, by land, is where the problem begins...since very recently.

This is where a large percent of the people illegally working in Thailand are making their every 2 week visa runs because that is the way they know of and the means for many to stay in Thailand.

So, unfortunately for you, you were caught up in the enthusiasm to catch those who are working illegally.

Up until recently no one cared but now the hammer is coming down on the border run operations and the officials who have been running the lucrative and profitable affair.

Given 6 moths or 1 year for sure some other way or means will develop for all those who come here looking for work and need to find a way to have some kind of stamp in their passport that allows them to stay on and keep on working...even if it is illegal.

The relative authorities are the only ones ( and usually they do not care ) who show any real concern about the matter of foreigners ( usually regional country foreigners ) working in Thailand illegally.

The Thai companies and or the Thai citizens in general are not concerned about foreign nationals coming to Thailand and working without a proper Visa or work permit.

They know well enough that they also are violating the immigration laws and rules and regulations while also violating the labor laws ..yet they will take on a foreigners as an employee while they are not at all concerned about the ramifications while telling everyone:" Never mind.....not something to really worry about"

Then the relevant authorities attempt to curb the growing violations of their immigration laws and labor laws.

You know what happens , usually????

In the end it makes matters worse with all the more corruption evolving while all the more money exchanges hands while lucrative side line business enterprises evolve because of immigration policies that are impossible to enforce and control anyhow.

If the immigration personal all abided by the laws themselves and never corrupted the system themselves then you could say the immigration policies are well planned and well enforced and fair enough.

But that is not the case as you could easily say that all too many Thai people in positions of authority are simply waiting to be appeased...so to speak.

Edited May 17, 2014 by gemguy