Negotiating the price of a condo

[thewug]

Yes the stability of the country plays big in all. So many people are pulling out of Thailand.

[chiang mai]

The market would not be my main concern, it is the increasing political uncertainty and the almost inevitable effect this will have upon farangs. Tying up capital in Thailand just makes no sense to me.

What is inevitable about the impact on farangs of the political mess in Bangkok. do you think a new government would tell all foreigners to leave, goodness me.

At 13% of GDP, tourism represents a necessary component of growth in the Thai economy, that you don't understand that contribution is a shame but it is reality.

Stop scaremongering.

[MantisMan]

To the OP,

I just purchashed my Condo in Koh Samui last year in July.

Asking price was 1.4mil

I asked for 1.2mil and got it.

I paid it all off in cash within a week. The whole deal was through the Juristic manager. The owner was in BKK at the time.

Met the owner on contract signing day and found him to be a nice guy. Wants to put his kids through college in Australia.

I'm now in Hong Kong until summer time and currently renting my place out for the entire year. Juristic manager finds long term renters for me, so of course they get their hands in the cookie jar, but not that much.

It 's worth it because they find the renters and take care of my place as well as my scooter that I can leave in the underground parking.

So, next I come in, I'll just go out and rent some place between 2000 to 5000 bt per month and live off what is being deposited into my account from renting my place out.

In the end, it's not a bad investment at all.

I have no plans on selling it and of course, would only do so when housing cycle goes up, which historically it does.

I can make money off of it and I've already got my retirement home/condo paid for and waiting for me when I'm ready (now 51 yrs young).

Keep in mind, for every person who has purchased land or a condo, there are that many stories to go along with it. Some good, some bad, some frightening some great.

If someone say's, "why bother when you rent a place blah blah blah and move around the country blah blah blah......."

Keep in mind, that is THEIR life and not yours. Perhaps THEY already have real estate someplace else? They can only suggest and not judge you.

Good luck!

Edited May 17, 2014 by MantisMan

[PattayaPhom]

Anything is only worth what YOU think it is,and what YOU are willing to pay for it,

Always try and buy from the owner,Estate agents always hype the price,before

you start to negotiate you decide what its worth to you,ask the owner the selling

price(this will always be more than he is expecting to get,how much more depends

how greedy he is), I always find its best to negotiate with a smile and a bit of banter,

If they are asking too much and will not lower the price,don't worry theres always a

lot more properties out there.

regards Worgeordie

In fact its the exact opposite. A true valuation given by an agent rather than some ballistic made up figure the owner thinks its worth. An agent will also assist with transfer for you, if you go it alone and are not fluent in reading and speaking Thai you will need the assistance of a lawyer which wont be cheap.

[supaprik]

The best negotiation is not to buy Condo at all. Stay here for few years, then you will learn not worth buying. Probably the prices will slum if couple of years. Over 50 000 unsold condo and more than 300 000 to be build. Hummmmmmmmm who wants to live there???????

so If I was to offer to sell you 1 of my condos for 10 baht you wouldn't want it then?

I,d be interested so long as you also paid the buyer/seller transfers....

[Stanley78]

To the OP,

I just purchashed my Condo in Koh Samui last year in July.

Asking price was 1.4mil

I asked for 1.2mil and got it.

I paid it all off in cash within a week. The whole deal was through the Juristic manager. The owner was in BKK at the time.

Met the owner on contract signing day and found him to be a nice guy. Wants to put his kids through college in Australia.

I'm now in Hong Kong until summer time and currently renting my place out for the entire year. Juristic manager finds long term renters for me, so of course they get their hands in the cookie jar, but not that much.

It 's worth it because they find the renters and take care of my place as well as my scooter that I can leave in the underground parking.

So, next I come in, I'll just go out and rent some place between 2000 to 5000 bt per month and live off what is being deposited into my account from renting my place out.

In the end, it's not a bad investment at all.

I have no plans on selling it and of course, would only do so when housing cycle goes up, which historically it does.

I can make money off of it and I've already got my retirement home/condo paid for and waiting for me when I'm ready (now 51 yrs young).

Keep in mind, for every person who has purchased land or a condo, there are that many stories to go along with it. Some good, some bad, some frightening some great.

If someone say's, "why bother when you rent a place blah blah blah and move around the country blah blah blah......."

Keep in mind, that is THEIR life and not yours. Perhaps THEY already have real estate someplace else? They can only suggest and not judge you.

Good luck!

Thank you for taking the time to give such an informative reply. Much appreciated.

[Thaiberius]

The market would not be my main concern, it is the increasing political uncertainty and the almost inevitable effect this will have upon farangs. Tying up capital in Thailand just makes no sense to me.

What is inevitable about the impact on farangs of the political mess in Bangkok. do you think a new government would tell all foreigners to leave, goodness me.

At 13% of GDP, tourism represents a necessary component of growth in the Thai economy, that you don't understand that contribution is a shame but it is reality.

Stop scaremongering.

I'm not scaremongering. Have a look at the facts. Hardly a month goes by without a rumour or a statement by an official that visa conditions are going to change or may change. I work in the oil and gas industry and therefore travel 7 or 8 times a year on a tourist visa, there are rumours that regular visitors may have that curtailed at the whim of an immigration officer in the absence of an official directive. I remember just a few years ago the visa run rules changed almost overnight and, if I remember correctly, the number of neighbouring country visa runs was reduced with a non-neighbouring country entry required periodically.

Additionally the Head of State has been ill for some time and the lack of a defined succession is causing concern to some neighbouring countries. Put this alongside the recent statement by the army concerning possible intervention because of the present political unrest. Should the Head of State die with no certain successor in place then there is potential for an extended role of the army. It is generally accepted that some elements of the army are not happy with the number of expats in the Kingdom and would welcome a wholesale review of visa restrictions along with some of the associated businesses.

You mention tourism is 13% of GDP, I would argue that "adult" tourism would amount to a very small proportion of that overall tourism figure. If the army decide to curtail that side of tourism then undoubtedly a number of expats may decide to leave, increasing housing supply and affecting the price in line with that.

The points I have outlined above are, individually, relatively minor but taken as a whole they indicate a possible risk to foreign investment. Put alongside this the current red and yellow shirt conflict and the present impotent government with no agreed election date in sight, I'd be very weary of tying up any capital in property for the foreseeable future. I have spoken to many others with the same thoughts as me which doesn't bode well for market confidence. And isn't market confdence every bit as important as availability of funds and a fluid market?

[peterb17]

Stanley - perhaps you need to consider what you are trying to achieve- many on TV will tell you not to buy- only rent.

Renting provides you with some crap landlords, really tacky plastic sofas ( landlords love those! ) , deposits you never get back, those truly awful art works, 150 baht toasters and wonderful cutlery that bends if you blow on it.

If you want to make a home, in your own style- then buy.

Many TV posters are obsessed with money- will your property go up or down ? Who cares- its a home- somewhere you can shut the door and enjoy.

Here in Thaland you can create something very stylish for not much money- but stay away from the tourist tat- hunt about - minimalistic is the way to go.

[thewug]

If your here for the long haul then buy. If not rent.

[Stanley78]

Stanley - perhaps you need to consider what you are trying to achieve- many on TV will tell you not to buy- only rent.

Renting provides you with some crap landlords, really tacky plastic sofas ( landlords love those! ) , deposits you never get back, those truly awful art works, 150 baht toasters and wonderful cutlery that bends if you blow on it.

If you want to make a home, in your own style- then buy.

Many TV posters are obsessed with money- will your property go up or down ? Who cares- its a home- somewhere you can shut the door and enjoy.

Here in Thaland you can create something very stylish for not much money- but stay away from the tourist tat- hunt about - minimalistic is the way to go.

Your post is spot on. I agree completely.

The advantage of being your own landlord (and boss) can never be underestimated.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Stanley78

[cronus]

I think it's wise to wait for the time being. I believe the bubble is about to burst here. Everything is way over priced. A lot of places still being built and yet a lot of places not being sold. It's a Buyers market , but if you wait some more time it's going get better for you as a buyer.

Prices per sqm here ranging from 70k to 140k... for a condo in a third world country...

[cronus]

If your here for the long haul then buy. If not rent.

It needs so little to spoil the happiness of an own condo or house... get the wrong neighbours... karaoke opening next door... new building next to yours etc etc. Rent - Move. As easy as that.

[Stanley78]

If your here for the long haul then buy. If not rent.

It needs so little to spoil the happiness of an own condo or house... get the wrong neighbours... karaoke opening next door... new building next to yours etc etc. Rent - Move. As easy as that.

Not unless I myself am the wrong neighbour of course.

Just kidding, you make a fair point. There are also advantages with renting as you just pointed out.

[dotpoom]

This attitude seems to be very common in today's world. I'm all for getting a reduction on an asking price particularly if I have the money in the bank to put a deposit the same day and close the deal without delay. But nowadays there seems to be no willingness to pay a fair price for a fair property (or whatever). There seems to be a built in mentality....how far down can I screw this person from his asking price...before even going to view the property. I have always been fortunate either buying or selling a property because I live my life by the principle "Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself". Of course, I'm a firm believer in Karma, so for me it's the wise way to live.....sort of "self protection". Anything for a simple life.

[Stanley78]

This attitude seems to be very common in today's world. I'm all for getting a reduction on an asking price particularly if I have the money in the bank to put a deposit the same day and close the deal without delay. But nowadays there seems to be no willingness to pay a fair price for a fair property (or whatever). There seems to be a built in mentality....how far down can I screw this person from his asking price...before even going to view the property. I have always been fortunate either buying or selling a property because I live my life by the principle "Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself". Of course, I'm a firm believer in Karma, so for me it's the wise way to live.....sort of "self protection". Anything for a simple life.

I'm not sure if your post was meant as a reply to my OP but I don't think that it is actually possible to screw someone by purchasing a property since the seller can always say no until he gets what he considers to be a fair price. If that ever happens.

In the end the prices are set by the market, it is worth what someone is willing and able to pay for it, not by what someone is willing to sell it for.

That being said I think it's fairly easy by comparing prices for similar properties in similar locations to see who is way out of line with their asking price and who has a reasonable expectation.

I can only speak for myself but I don't go around making unrealistic offers just to see if I might be able to "screw someone over". I offer what I believe to be a fair price and hopefully that is close enough to what the seller thinks is a fair price as well so that we can do business.

I simply wanted to know how the asking prices usually compare to the actual selling prices in Thailand.

[Som wat]

The market would not be my main concern, it is the increasing political uncertainty and the almost inevitable effect this will have upon farangs. Tying up capital in Thailand just makes no sense to me.

True.

Personally I would wait until after THE event, well, well after THE event. No one can predict what the country will be like after that.

[Thaiberius]

This attitude seems to be very common in today's world. I'm all for getting a reduction on an asking price particularly if I have the money in the bank to put a deposit the same day and close the deal without delay. But nowadays there seems to be no willingness to pay a fair price for a fair property (or whatever). There seems to be a built in mentality....how far down can I screw this person from his asking price...before even going to view the property. I have always been fortunate either buying or selling a property because I live my life by the principle "Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself". Of course, I'm a firm believer in Karma, so for me it's the wise way to live.....sort of "self protection". Anything for a simple life.

How do you decide the fair price?

Buying a house is one of the very few times in anybodys life where true supply and demand is experienced. This means you are also entering the market in order to get a fair price for yourself. Any economist will tell you there is no such thing as a "fair price" only the price that is agreed upon by buyer and seller in line with the market forces in play on that day.

[KittenKong]

If you want to make a home, in your own style- then buy.

Many TV posters are obsessed with money- will your property go up or down ? Who cares- its a home- somewhere you can shut the door and enjoy.

Sounds great on paper .... until some disaster occurs next door or nearby in which case your "shut the door and enjoy" condo rapidly becomes a giant millstone that you cant sell for love nor money. And at that point you may indeed start thinking about how much better off you might have been if you had rented instead. Particularly if the replacement condo you want to buy hasn't dropped in price also.

In other countries there is often something approaching zoning laws, and enforcement of laws relating to the environment, noise, nuisance etc. You wont see much of that here.

[KittenKong]

In the end the prices are set by the market, it is worth what someone is willing and able to pay for it, not by what someone is willing to sell it for.

Indeed. But that is the selling price, not the asking price.

That being said I think it's fairly easy by comparing prices for similar properties in similar locations to see who is way out of line with their asking price and who has a reasonable expectation.

Maybe, unless everyone's asking price is way over the top as often happens here (well, here in Pattaya anyway).

I can only speak for myself but I don't go around making unrealistic offers just to see if I might be able to "screw someone over". I offer what I believe to be a fair price and hopefully that is close enough to what the seller thinks is a fair price as well so that we can do business.

I suspect that you are in the wrong country for this.

I simply wanted to know how the asking prices usually compare to the actual selling prices in Thailand.

I would like to know that too. Where I am I know that condos generally sell in a few weeks when they are priced at 25-50% below average asking price. Otherwise they seem to just hang around for years on end. And as far as I'm concerned any property that is correctly priced should sell within a matter of weeks.

[Stanley78]

I simply wanted to know how the asking prices usually compare to the actual selling prices in Thailand.

I would like to know that too. Where I am I know that condos generally sell in a few weeks when they are priced at 25-50% below average asking price. Otherwise they seem to just hang around for years on end. And as far as I'm concerned any property that is correctly priced should sell within a matter of weeks.

Indeed. In some countries there is public data available on asking vs. selling prices.

I could always ask some real estate agents but since they work on commission it's not necessarily in their interest to tell the truth regarding that.

[KittenKong]

Prices per sqm here ranging from 70k to 140k... for a condo in a third world country...

Hmmm. I paid well under 50K/sqm for my central location sea-view condo and I still think it was overpriced, and probably worth 20-25% less than I paid.

I can only ponder about what sort of w*anker would pay 70-140K/sqm here, but I know they do. I'm told that some people pay thousands for sex with hookers here too.

[KittenKong]

Indeed. In some countries there is public data available on asking vs. selling prices.

You can always ask at the land office, but they only know the prices that they apply for tax and not the price that was really paid (which could of course be higher or lower than the price applied).

I could always ask some real estate agents but since they work on commission it's not necessarily in their interest to tell the truth regarding that.

It's not often one reads the words "truth" and "estate agent" in the same sentence, without "never" also being there.

[Thaiberius]

I simply wanted to know how the asking prices usually compare to the actual selling prices in Thailand.

I would like to know that too. Where I am I know that condos generally sell in a few weeks when they are priced at 25-50% below average asking price. Otherwise they seem to just hang around for years on end. And as far as I'm concerned any property that is correctly priced should sell within a matter of weeks.

Indeed. In some countries there is public data available on asking vs. selling prices.

I could always ask some real estate agents but since they work on commission it's not necessarily in their interest to tell the truth regarding that.

If a property is put on the market for £xk and sells the same day it is clear the asking price is too low. As a guide, put the property on the market for 5 - 10% more than the expected selling price and be prepared to negotiate. Property asking and selling prices bear no resemblance to what is a fair price, they indicate the price upon what a buyer and seller can agree on.

[Stanley78]

I could always ask some real estate agents but since they work on commission it's not necessarily in their interest to tell the truth regarding that.

It's not often one reads the words "truth" and "estate agent" in the same sentence, without "never" also being there.

Hahaha yea I have to agree with that.

[KittenKong]

If a property is put on the market for £xk and sells the same day it is clear the asking price is too low.

Indeed. But I was talking about sales that happen within a few weeks (a sensible time-frame, I think) and places that hang around (quite literally) for years.

[GAZZPA]

The best negotiation is not to buy Condo at all. Stay here for few years, then you will learn not worth buying. Probably the prices will slum if couple of years. Over 50 000 unsold condo and more than 300 000 to be build. Hummmmmmmmm who wants to live there???????

You could very well be right on this one..

Over development seems to be a bit of a plague across a lot of Asia and with Thailand now in a recession and confidence falling in the economy it doest feel like a good time to buy.

I think your advice is sensible, leave it alone, if only for a while and see how things go.

[KittenKong]

Over development seems to be a bit of a plague across a lot of Asia and with Thailand now in a recession and confidence falling in the economy it doest feel like a good time to buy.

So rather like 1997 then?

There is nothing new happening in Thailand.

[mjakob007]

I have been able to negotiate 15% lower than price advertised.

One strategy would be to arrive at price/sq mt for various condos in the same locality and tweak that price for views, floor, any additional amenities etc.

always bear in mind, its easy to buy than to sell or let.

consider age of condo when buying. walk around to see if there are notices on door to pay up maintenance fees. you dont want to end up in a condo, where your fellow owners dont contribute in time.

[Stanley78]

I have been able to negotiate 15% lower than price advertised.

One strategy would be to arrive at price/sq mt for various condos in the same locality and tweak that price for views, floor, any additional amenities etc.

always bear in mind, its easy to buy than to sell or let.

consider age of condo when buying. walk around to see if there are notices on door to pay up maintenance fees. you dont want to end up in a condo, where your fellow owners dont contribute in time.

Thank you for your input.

The buildings I'm looking at buying in are also very popular as rental properties so hopefully not many owners are letting their maintenance fees go unpaid but I will of course try to make sure.

[Arma]

Good topic discussion. Where would one go to see if there are any foreclosure sales in an area someone would be interested in? Also, where would you find what comparable units have sold for in an area of interest?