Thai Govt proposes new poll on 3 Aug

[kimamey]

Mad to expect to move past a political deadlock by holding an election? Such an extreme demand is clearly a sign of mental illness! Sounds to me as though the inmates have taken over the TVF asylum.

What political deadlock? There was no political deadlock. There was only a man backed by a group of rich and powerful people who wanted to overthrow an elected government by civil disruption and not at the polls where it would have more credibility and validity.

The reason that this has been allowed to progress to this day is because this group of rich and powerful people have a lot of influence over many so called independent agencies (for all we know, they may even be part of these agencies).

There is a deadlock for sure - but it's about a wealth and power grab.

You're only looking at this from one side though aren't you.

After the 2011 election, despite all the claims that the Democrats refuse to accept election results, that's exactly what they did, accepted them. PTP looked at all their wonderful MPs and thought which one would make a good PM? They then decided that the best option was someone with no experience who would have to be shipped off around the world in case someone forced her to do her job in parliament and just happened to be Thaksin's sister. Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? Her one quality seems to have been her intention to try to compromise as she showed when Abhisit was going to put forward his ideas and she said he should be given a chance to explain them. At least that might have started some meaningful discussion but it didn't seem to happen. Did she change her mind or was she overruled by someone?

The normal parliamentary procedures continued until the big push by the 'it's not all about Thaksin party' to get an amnesty for Thaksin which showed it's real purpose. This upset the redshirts as well as it meant an amnesty for Abhisit and Suthep who they still seem to think ordered the killings in 2010. They don't seem to realise or maybe don't care that the PTP is protecting the army who were the ones who fired the shots. As far as I know the Dems were happy to see minor redshirts get an amnesty but it couldn't happen without Thaksin getting one which is obviously more important. He's had to apologise to the redshirts for talking only about himself during one of his phone rallies. Everything is about him. Suthep may well be suffering from a massive ego but he's got nothing on Thaksin.

On the BBC website this morning there were 2 pictures showing anti and pro government protesters. The one of the redshirts showed people with placards with the words 'No Unelected PM'. Behind them were more redshirts with placards bearing a picture. Not of the current acting caretaker PM or whatever he's called or of Yingluck the last elected PM, the darling of Isaan but of Thaksin. I think that picture summed the problem up fairly well myself. This doesn't happen elsewhere in democracies.

It's not the elected government that's the problem it's the running of the party by someone who's been convicted and lives outside the jurisdiction of the Thai authorities.

I'm sure someone will come on and tell me the conviction was trumped up or politically motivated. Of course there was political motivation. That's what happens in politics. If your opponent does something wrong you attack them with it even though you wouldn't if it were someone else. Abhisit's problem over his military career was a good example as what was done was quite common apparently but you don't see any other cases do you. It was proved so that's that. The murder charges seem a bit different as there doesn't at the moment appear to be any evidence to back them up but we'll have to see what happens. When PTP came to power Yingluck said they were going to have a look at Thaksin's conviction to see if the case was properly conducted. I've heard nothing more about it so I'm assuming they didn't find any problems.

There is also the perceived bias of the courts and independent agencies. If the PTP win the next election it seems unlikely hey will be able to prevent themselves doing something silly which will bring one or more of them before a court which will then be accused of bias if it doesn't rule the way the redshirts want it to. The trouble with doing this after a PTP election win is we'll end up with courts that look like a Shinawatra family reunion.

There are problems on both sides which won't be solved until they are admitted.

Before we voted, Yingluk was already nominated (nominated in May, for July elections). We knew who we'd get if we voted in Pheu Thai, and she did a lot of campaigning.

A lot of the rest of your argument is really based on the idea that Thaksin put her in power, and not the voters. That they voted in Pheu Thai and Thaksin came along and stuck in Yingluk. But that's fiction. We chose her.

A fair point. I should have said she was chosen as candidate and then voted as PM in parliament. The point still remains why was she chosen. Did the party members who nominated her, some of whom must have had ambitions of their own, honestly think that Yingluck was a good choice for the job. If she was why was she rarely in parliament and why did she often not know what was going on. Did they really choose her as PM or was she put there by Thaksin? Did he do that so he could control the government whilst not being bound by the rules that MPs and PM of either side are supposed to observe.

The thing is as I said she seemed to favour a more conciliatory approach which was her one strength. Much of what has happened doesn't seem to follow that idea.

Bare in mind that once appointed the PM represents the whole country not just those who voted for the governing party so giving the country a PM who had no experience whilst probably not against any rules shows a lack of respect for democracy.

[kimamey]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

Where does all this EC not wanting elections come from. They organised the one in 2011 which apparently went very well according to pro PTP posters. They ran the one in February but that was disrupted by protesters which the police and army couldn't stop. I don't know what you think the 5 of them could have done about that. They have merely pointed out that the same thing could happen again and waste more money which the PTP will want them to pay back since they think it's their fault. Pity the PTP don't pay back what was lost on the rice scheme.

All the while the man who'll be running the government if PTP win won't even be in the country let alone take part in the election.

Somchai was appointed to the EC, 2 days after Yingluk called elections, he was not involved in the 2011 election. The rest is simple observation.

I'm sorry I must have got it all wrong. I thought there were 5 members of the EC but it appears from what you say that there is now only Somchai.

The rest is simple observation of what? Since Somchai was appointed there has been one election on February 2nd. The EC. Sorry Somchai expressed concerns that holding an election might prove difficult what with all the protests which the police and army would have to deal with as somchai as the only EC member now would be too busy as the the original function of the EC was to organise elections not the security. That proved correct. A new election is being planned which may encounter similar problems

Martial law may actually help with the running of the next election as the army will be able to control security without input from the caretaker government. I applaud their attempts not to incite violence by sending in the army but it has it's problems as were seen when Abhisit tried the same thing. I can't help thinking that maybe the caretaker government is worried that if anyone is killed they may end up in court based on their actions against Abhisit and Suthep.

I thought I'd edit this post as I've just found a post that I was sure was yours but had trouble finding. The problem with your posts is that they are entirely one sided, as are many on here for both sides. This post however shows your lack of interest in facts.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/723115-democrats-to-boycott-july-20-poll-again-if-abhisits-proposal-rejected/page-2 Post 49

I've given the link in case there's any suggestion that the portion I'm copying below is out of context.

It's easy to forget the reason Abhisit had so few seats in 2011, was because he massacred a lot of people in 2010, and funny that, it turns out that massacres are a turn-off for the voters.

Massacre may or may not be a bit strong but I think you'll find that was the army who the PP are refusing to have investigated. The ROE shows they weren't given permission either.

Edited May 21, 2014 by kimamey