Democrats to boycott July 20 poll again if Abhisit's proposal rejected

[srsv1238]

Sounds like an ultimatum from a 6 year old boy. just when you thought the democrats couldn't get any more childish, they come out with this.

Actually, it sounds like an adult giving a bunch of unruly children a well deserved slap.

More like a crazed lunatic burning a house with his family inside because they won't do what he wants.

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[Thaddeus]

Sounds like an ultimatum from a 6 year old boy. just when you thought the democrats couldn't get any more childish, they come out with this.

Actually, it sounds like an adult giving a bunch of unruly children a well deserved slap.

adult ? you got to be joking. politically, Abhisit is the socially awkward kid in the corner with no friends, constant whining and nobody listens to him.

The socially awkward kid in the corner with no friends frequently turns out to be the intelligent one.

[Dogmatix]

Time is fast running out for the Democrats to decide whether they will participate in the July 20, 2014 election if made by royal decree.

(1) Contituency candidate registration for the Feb. 2, 2014 election date began 42 days in advance or Dec. 23, 2013. If the new election date is July 20, 2014, the date for constituency candidate registration might be be June 9 following the previous election schedule. Party-list candidate registration begins one day before or June 8, 2014.

(2) The date of application for candidacy in an election on a constituency basis shall not be later than twenty days as from the date the Royal Decree coming into force or May 20, 2014. Electoral Laws, Chapter 1, Part 1, Sec. 7(1).

If the Democrats do not file its constituency candidates and party-list candidates on or about May 20, 2014 it is already election game over for the Democrats. The remaining option is then a campaign for voters to vote "No" on the ballots or once again shutdown voting stations and hope that the EC violates the constitution so that the Constitutional Court will nullify the election again.

The reasons for the Dems not contesting the Feb election seem still to be prevailing. So it would be consistent for them to boycott again. I don't think they could be dissolved for not contesting two general elections sequentially because the Feb election was annulled. Anyway they could follow the Thaksinite practice of registering a shell party ready to migrate into and even dissolve themselves the day before the election.

Candidate registrations are the critical issue this time and the EC is likely not to go ahead with elections, if ony one constituency has no candidates this time. If they can allow internet registration it is game over for the PDRC but Thailand has not yet developed laws for electronic signatures. Otherwise using army camps for registration is tricky. Protestors can block access to them, leaving helicopters the only way in but that might imply the candidate registration was only open to those who had access to an army helcopter.

[rebelplatoon]

He was specifically asked what if the plan is rejected straight out. Hence the reply because indeed nothing would change. Illegal parties convicted of fraud could still change their name and join ( PPP, TRT, PTP) and the carefully adjusted constituencies to let PTP win would still be the same. Time for Abhisit to anounce the plans, I agree.

[winstonc]

So any guesses on what the "minor reform is" the famous Abhisit "Proposal"? LOLOL..... Is it Shins don't run I won't run...? Suthep wants to run them out of the country so he says... how is this position by the Dem Party spokesman Chavanon any different than the one they have been fronting since the start? ...do they already know it is dead in the water...? they seem to. Apparently they don't see their numbers having increased exponentially as some people would have us think (polls/projections/stats) that they could win an election... Why else would they play this card now before anybody in the public knows what the Amorphous Proposal is from Kuhn Abhisit.

Nobody knows the proposal yet but we do know the disclaimer for "either/ Or"... either you accept the Abhisit proposal or we won't play again... { I tried...I tried...I tried to bring peace to the country I tried I Challenged I offered I warned I advised I offered, but nobody listened and I can't participate in an election that I cannot win..It doesn't make sense if I can't win! I tried with a proposal but they refused it I tried, they didn't. I tried I tried. Kuhn Suthep your cat is not listening to me! Why not?"

SO now where are we...? another blocked election... another boycotted election,, more insurrection from the mugs on the streets...som nom na

those so called mugs arent sitting on a keyboard giving it johny big potatoes why not just wait until we all know what the proposals are..mrs winston will laugh when i tell her shes a toby jug...you and i know nothing.......

[DirtFarmer]

So any guesses on what the "minor reform is" the famous Abhisit "Proposal"? LOLOL..... Is it Shins don't run I won't run...? Suthep wants to run them out of the country so he says... how is this position by the Dem Party spokesman Chavanon any different than the one they have been fronting since the start? ...do they already know it is dead in the water...? they seem to. Apparently they don't see their numbers having increased exponentially as some people would have us think (polls/projections/stats) that they could win an election... Why else would they play this card now before anybody in the public knows what the Amorphous Proposal is from Kuhn Abhisit.

Nobody knows the proposal yet but we do know the disclaimer for "either/ Or"... either you accept the Abhisit proposal or we won't play again... { I tried...I tried...I tried to bring peace to the country I tried I Challenged I offered I warned I advised I offered, but nobody listened and I can't participate in an election that I cannot win..It doesn't make sense if I can't win! I tried with a proposal but they refused it I tried, they didn't. I tried I tried. Kuhn Suthep your cat is not listening to me! Why not?"

SO now where are we...? another blocked election... another boycotted election,, more insurrection from the mugs on the streets...som nom na

those so called mugs arent sitting on a keyboard giving it johny big potatoes why not just wait until we all know what the proposals are..mrs winston will laugh when i tell her shes a toby jug...you and i know nothing.......

you're right we know nothing..

what is a toby jug...? never heard that before

Edited May 2, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[JAG]

I have a cunning plan. Abhisit has proposals about how Thailand should be governed. Well why doesn't he, (and this is the clever bit chaps), why doesn't he include them in his party's manifesto. Then the electorate can look at them, and if they like them, vote for them!

If he wins ( and we are told so often that he is bound to win this time), then he can, in government, implement these policies, in the sure knowledge that they are what the electorate want!

It's so simple and yet so cunning, I'm surprised that a man of his intellect and education (and again we are told so often that this is what "marks" him out from the rest of the Thai political community) hasn't thought of it. After all, he is a democrat isn't he.

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[Bakseeda]

Sounds like an ultimatum from a 6 year old boy. just when you thought the democrats couldn't get any more childish, they come out with this.

Obviously you have had too many ultimatums from 6yr old boys... seems you recognise something here..! Were you a priest before.. ? Or just old uncle Moonao....

[kkerry]

If the Democrats were a football team and l was a ticketed member, I would have torn up my membership by now due to their lack of effort despite the other team kicking own goal after goal.

[pisico]

The Dems have just become an ex party.

What a shower of pathetic little people.

Their childish tantrums and lack of anything that resembles concern for the country will not be missed.

Wonder what name they will come up with in the future?

The Ammartcrats

[Mentors]

Remembers me to my lovely 4years old niece and her acting when i refuse to buy her another lollipop...

[fab4]

Sounds like an ultimatum from a 6 year old boy. just when you thought the democrats couldn't get any more childish, they come out with this.

Actually, it sounds like an adult giving a bunch of unruly children a well deserved slap.

adult ? you got to be joking. politically, Abhisit is the socially awkward kid in the corner with no friends, constant whining and nobody listens to him.

The socially awkward kid in the corner with no friends frequently turns out to be the intelligent one.

Great, just what this country's electorate needs, an intelligent kid who can't relate to anyone, yep, that's abhisit

[pisico]

It's hardly surprising - as these discussions are still taking place between Abhisit and party leaders - that any final communique would be released between them before the fact, but when it is it will clearly be not only instantly mocked by Pheu Thai supporters but in fact will be an actual turning point as well, as this news story suggests - because the Democratic party this afternoon has now gone on record by announcing that unless some form of agreement is reached, they will boycott the election. The argument is exactly the same as it was on December 21 when the party boycotted the previous election. The argument is - nothing has changed. The reforms that needed to be addressed have not been addressed. Pheu Thai is operating as if nothing has changed since November 1 when they passed the amnesty bill at 4 in the morning and started a firestorm in the country. With the Yingluck administration as obstinate as ever - with Surapong and Chalerm as intimidating as ever, with the independent agencies and courts under intimidation, and with Thaksin's skype connection as alive and well as it ever was - absolutely nothing has changed. Why would the Democrats want to enable a quorum for an administration run like this - an administration being directed by a prime minister's brother - why would they possibly want to do that - why would they possibly want to enable an administration that is beset by scandal and criminal investigations ? Pheu Thai supporters will doubtless be delighted with the Democratic party and Abhisit's withdrawal - just as Pheu Thai undoubtedly was in December when they were already dreaming of sweeping every constituency in the country. Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum.

Well how about putting all minor and major reforms on the table? Tis about time the dems got their act together, oh but it seems they can't. They need someone to agree. In western politics you don't need agreements from the other sides, put what you have on the table and stop crying that a coup hasn't happened yet ya bunch of whingers!

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Those reforms remind us of the jingle Hope and Change. Reform, reform and proposals. Just smoke and mirrors, labels and lack of transparency.

They are the party that coined the motto: if at first you do not succeed, coup again and again. There!!! That's is their plan... and has been so for the past 20 odd years.

[marcusd]

The Dems have just become an ex party.

What a shower of pathetic little people.

Their childish tantrums and lack of anything that resembles concern for the country will not be missed.

Wonder what name they will come up with in the future?

why go to any election for that matter when everything remains as it was? There needs to be real change not just a date change

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[MickGC]

It's hardly surprising - as these discussions are still taking place between Abhisit and party leaders - that any final communique would be released between them before the fact, but when it is it will clearly be not only instantly mocked by Pheu Thai supporters but in fact will be an actual turning point as well, as this news story suggests - because the Democratic party this afternoon has now gone on record by announcing that unless some form of agreement is reached, they will boycott the election. The argument is exactly the same as it was on December 21 when the party boycotted the previous election. The argument is - nothing has changed. The reforms that needed to be addressed have not been addressed. Pheu Thai is operating as if nothing has changed since November 1 when they passed the amnesty bill at 4 in the morning and started a firestorm in the country. With the Yingluck administration as obstinate as ever - with Surapong and Chalerm as intimidating as ever, with the independent agencies and courts under intimidation, and with Thaksin's skype connection as alive and well as it ever was - absolutely nothing has changed. Why would the Democrats want to enable a quorum for an administration run like this - an administration being directed by a prime minister's brother - why would they possibly want to do that - why would they possibly want to enable an administration that is beset by scandal and criminal investigations ? Pheu Thai supporters will doubtless be delighted with the Democratic party and Abhisit's withdrawal - just as Pheu Thai undoubtedly was in December when they were already dreaming of sweeping every constituency in the country. Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum.

The way to effect change is for the democrats to run. Success is never guaranteed. But you have to try earning an electoral mandate. If you don't run, you cannot participate. You cannot complain.

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Scamper is the number 1 spin doctor on TVF batting for the opposition. Just about everything he accuses the PTP of eventually gets disproven. One glaring example is always accusing them of being unwilling to negotiate with the undemocratic party when actually its the other way around. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[rametindallas]

So any guesses on what the "minor reform is" the famous Abhisit "Proposal"? LOLOL..... Is it Shins don't run I won't run...? Suthep wants to run them out of the country so he says... how is this position by the Dem Party spokesman Chavanon any different than the one they have been fronting since the start? ...do they already know it is dead in the water...? they seem to. Apparently they don't see their numbers having increased exponentially as some people would have us think (polls/projections/stats) that they could win an election... Why else would they play this card now before anybody in the public knows what the Amorphous Proposal is from Kuhn Abhisit.

Nobody knows the proposal yet but we do know the disclaimer for "either/ Or"... either you accept the Abhisit proposal or we won't play again... { I tried...I tried...I tried to bring peace to the country I tried I Challenged I offered I warned I advised I offered, but nobody listened and I can't participate in an election that I cannot win..It doesn't make sense if I can't win! I tried with a proposal but they refused it I tried, they didn't. I tried I tried. Kuhn Suthep your cat is not listening to me! Why not?"

SO now where are we...? another blocked election... another boycotted election,, more insurrection from the mugs on the streets...som nom na

Just have the bloody election and award the government to the party with the commanding number of votes. Any party not taking part need have nothing else to say. All parties taking part who win a seat will have a say in whatever the proposals are.

That pretty much describes the 2011 election: Winner take all and ignore the losers. No compromises.

[MaxLee]

With the ELECTION COLLECTION COMMITTEE bought and bribed by Thaksin, this game is over for Thailand for eternity...

[Thai at Heart]

And as yet, the bloody reform proposal is secret.

How can the democrats refuse to do this on the back of a secret proposal. They are useless just let them rot.

[BlueNoseCodger]

So any guesses on what the "minor reform is" the famous Abhisit "Proposal"? LOLOL..... Is it Shins don't run I won't run...? Suthep wants to run them out of the country so he says... how is this position by the Dem Party spokesman Chavanon any different than the one they have been fronting since the start? ...do they already know it is dead in the water...? they seem to. Apparently they don't see their numbers having increased exponentially as some people would have us think (polls/projections/stats) that they could win an election... Why else would they play this card now before anybody in the public knows what the Amorphous Proposal is from Kuhn Abhisit.

Nobody knows the proposal yet but we do know the disclaimer for "either/ Or"... either you accept the Abhisit proposal or we won't play again... { I tried...I tried...I tried to bring peace to the country I tried I Challenged I offered I warned I advised I offered, but nobody listened and I can't participate in an election that I cannot win..It doesn't make sense if I can't win! I tried with a proposal but they refused it I tried, they didn't. I tried I tried. Kuhn Suthep your cat is not listening to me! Why not?"

SO now where are we...? another blocked election... another boycotted election,, more insurrection from the mugs on the streets...som nom na

Just have the bloody election and award the government to the party with the commanding number of votes. Any party not taking part need have nothing else to say. All parties taking part who win a seat will have a say in whatever the proposals are.

That pretty much describes the 2011 election: Winner take all and ignore the losers. No compromises.

So democracy then? Because if the voters increased PT's majority, despite all the fake 'terrorism' claptrap that Abhisit threw at them. Seats switched away from Democrats and towards PT. Constituencies he controlled rejected him.

It's easy to forget the reason Abhisit had so few seats in 2011, was because he massacred a lot of people in 2010, and funny that, it turns out that massacres are a turn-off for the voters. The voters decided Abhisit would have few seats and no say in the government, not PT. They made a wise choice, and PT should not be kind to a candidate the voters disempowered.

So you can pretend how terribly bad the PT government is, but voters rejected Abhisit for very good reasons. They made the right choice. Democrats are boycotting, and that is the best thing that can happen to Thailand, good riddence.

[Publicus]

The Shin clan will, of course, step aside for the good of the country, because "they don't want power, only peace". If you believe that, I have some real estate you may be interested in.

If the real estate is in Florida then its actually a swamp and you got swindled.

[JAG]

Of course, if the Democrats boycott the election, under the byzantine electoral rules imposed by the post coup amendments to the constitution, the establishment will find a way to annul it.

So there we have it: the "Democrats" will only stand if they can be sure that they will win. If they don't stand then there will be no election.

And the electorate, who have repeatedly seen their choice of government thrown out, will just get more and more pissed off.

When the frustrations finally overflow, you will need more than 700 odd Generals to put the lid back on.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 2, 2014 by JAG

[rametindallas]

So any guesses on what the "minor reform is" the famous Abhisit "Proposal"? LOLOL..... Is it Shins don't run I won't run...? Suthep wants to run them out of the country so he says... how is this position by the Dem Party spokesman Chavanon any different than the one they have been fronting since the start? ...do they already know it is dead in the water...? they seem to. Apparently they don't see their numbers having increased exponentially as some people would have us think (polls/projections/stats) that they could win an election... Why else would they play this card now before anybody in the public knows what the Amorphous Proposal is from Kuhn Abhisit.

Nobody knows the proposal yet but we do know the disclaimer for "either/ Or"... either you accept the Abhisit proposal or we won't play again... { I tried...I tried...I tried to bring peace to the country I tried I Challenged I offered I warned I advised I offered, but nobody listened and I can't participate in an election that I cannot win..It doesn't make sense if I can't win! I tried with a proposal but they refused it I tried, they didn't. I tried I tried. Kuhn Suthep your cat is not listening to me! Why not?"

SO now where are we...? another blocked election... another boycotted election,, more insurrection from the mugs on the streets...som nom na

Just have the bloody election and award the government to the party with the commanding number of votes. Any party not taking part need have nothing else to say. All parties taking part who win a seat will have a say in whatever the proposals are.

That pretty much describes the 2011 election: Winner take all and ignore the losers. No compromises.

So democracy then? Because if the voters increased PT's majority, despite all the fake 'terrorism' claptrap that Abhisit threw at them. Seats switched away from Democrats and towards PT. Constituencies he controlled rejected him.

It's easy to forget the reason Abhisit had so few seats in 2011, was because he massacred a lot of people in 2010, and funny that, it turns out that massacres are a turn-off for the voters. The voters decided Abhisit would have few seats and no say in the government, not PT. They made a wise choice, and PT should not be kind to a candidate the voters disempowered.

So you can pretend how terribly bad the PT government is, but voters rejected Abhisit for very good reasons. They made the right choice. Democrats are boycotting, and that is the best thing that can happen to Thailand, good riddence.

I'll ignore most of your post so i can respond. I am for elections as soon as the Democrats can get their act together and participate, It is no use having elections, and wasting three billion Baht or more, if the Democrats are just going to boycott them again. It is useless because you won't be able to seat the minimum 95% of MPs required to form a new government.

That being said, I have no idea what Suthep ultimately wants, (besides getting Thaksin's influence out of politics) but I suspect it of being undemocratic. I no more want Suthep to have a say in the running of Thailand than I do Jatuporn. I do not support the PDRC, Suthep, Abhisit, the Democrats or anyone in politics in Thailand.

My only aim, on this forum, is to call the Thaksin supporters out for supporting a sophisticated and elaborate criminal enterprise that is called PTP. If it were the Democrats behaving this way, I would be calling out their supporters. The Democrats aren't in power now. Thaksin's puppet government, the PTP, is in power now and Thaksin is 'enemy number one' of the few freedoms that Thais still enjoy. I have watched Thaksin, over the years he was PM, destroy the power of NGOs, and the press, to expose his undemocratic ways. Thaksin's goal of making Thailand a Republic is unacceptable to me as he will pervert the system to become, as his friend Hun Sen has done in Cambodia, a 'President for Life' . Thaksin is a narcissist, (even his intimates that I am friends with will acknowledge that) and he has never gotten over his 'loss of face' when he was suddenly deposed by the military. Thaksin is my problem but that doesn't mean I support his enemies. I support the lovely people of Isaan (first wife from Yasothon) and all rural people before city people. I am rural myself. I don't hate Thaksin, I just think he is using the Isaan people as a route to power. Time for him to move on and let someone else feed at the public trough for awhile.

[Publicus]

It's hardly surprising - as these discussions are still taking place between Abhisit and party leaders - that any final communique would be released between them before the fact, but when it is it will clearly be not only instantly mocked by Pheu Thai supporters but in fact will be an actual turning point as well, as this news story suggests - because the Democratic party this afternoon has now gone on record by announcing that unless some form of agreement is reached, they will boycott the election. The argument is exactly the same as it was on December 21 when the party boycotted the previous election. The argument is - nothing has changed. The reforms that needed to be addressed have not been addressed. Pheu Thai is operating as if nothing has changed since November 1 when they passed the amnesty bill at 4 in the morning and started a firestorm in the country. With the Yingluck administration as obstinate as ever - with Surapong and Chalerm as intimidating as ever, with the independent agencies and courts under intimidation, and with Thaksin's skype connection as alive and well as it ever was - absolutely nothing has changed. Why would the Democrats want to enable a quorum for an administration run like this - an administration being directed by a prime minister's brother - why would they possibly want to do that - why would they possibly want to enable an administration that is beset by scandal and criminal investigations ? Pheu Thai supporters will doubtless be delighted with the Democratic party and Abhisit's withdrawal - just as Pheu Thai undoubtedly was in December when they were already dreaming of sweeping every constituency in the country. Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum.

Big changes have occurred the past 180 or so days. So you need to scamper to get up to speed about the significant changes you and so many others around here have missed.

The biggest change of all is that the people reject the "reforms" of the feudalist Suthep and his still anonymous and reclusive cave men of the PDRC.

The people don't want a "People's Council" of still anonymous autocrat ammart appointed by Suthep and his PDRC to sit in absolute authority, answerable to no one except Suthep, to rule absolutely over the country for what looks more to be three years instead of 16 or so months. How quickly too three years can turn into five years, then ten years. Mostly fools or fascists ever believed Suthep and the PDRC and now mostly idiots or fascists continue to believe them.

The people have rejected an unelected National Assembly of exclusively "good people" In contrast to the bad people as defined by Suthep and his cave man PDRC, a National Assembly that would be appointed by Suthep and the Bangkok ammart to rule absolutely and, as sensible people know, indefinitely. The Thai people want to elect a democratically representative parliament chosen by one person one vote.

Another big change is that the military have found out they can't do another military mutiny coup d'état. The 2006 military mutiny coup was the most divisive event in the history of Thailand/Siam. Others in certain institutions of the government will also find out soon they too can't execute a judicial coup d'état without even more divisive and grave consequences occurring.

Another big change is that Suthep has lost whatever tiny credibility he once may have had on the heels of the massive amnesty protest. Yet another reality many obsessives can't accept is that amnesty is dead. Still another great change many can't cope with is that Abhisit has lost all credibility domestically and globally. Indeed, Abhisit knows the only way he can return as prime minister is as part of a dictatorship.

One thing that hasn't changed is that Asean and the democracies of the world continue to call for a peaceful and democratic resolution to the internal conflicts of Thailand. In stark contrast, fascists insisting on interposing a dictatorship on Thailand in the name of democracy later is neither peaceful nor is it democratic.

A big non-change is that Yingluck remains as prime minister and the government continues to sit. (That may well change but not without consequences.)

Seismic changes have occurred since December 1st, it's just that some people are brain dead about it.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Publicus

[Thai at Heart]

It's hardly surprising - as these discussions are still taking place between Abhisit and party leaders - that any final communique would be released between them before the fact, but when it is it will clearly be not only instantly mocked by Pheu Thai supporters but in fact will be an actual turning point as well, as this news story suggests - because the Democratic party this afternoon has now gone on record by announcing that unless some form of agreement is reached, they will boycott the election. The argument is exactly the same as it was on December 21 when the party boycotted the previous election. The argument is - nothing has changed. The reforms that needed to be addressed have not been addressed. Pheu Thai is operating as if nothing has changed since November 1 when they passed the amnesty bill at 4 in the morning and started a firestorm in the country. With the Yingluck administration as obstinate as ever - with Surapong and Chalerm as intimidating as ever, with the independent agencies and courts under intimidation, and with Thaksin's skype connection as alive and well as it ever was - absolutely nothing has changed. Why would the Democrats want to enable a quorum for an administration run like this - an administration being directed by a prime minister's brother - why would they possibly want to do that - why would they possibly want to enable an administration that is beset by scandal and criminal investigations ? Pheu Thai supporters will doubtless be delighted with the Democratic party and Abhisit's withdrawal - just as Pheu Thai undoubtedly was in December when they were already dreaming of sweeping every constituency in the country. Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum.

Big changes have occurred the past 180 or so days. So you need to scamper to get up to speed about the significant changes you and so many others around here have missed.

The biggest change of all is that the people reject the "reforms" of the feudalist Suthep and his still anonymous and reclusive cave men of the PDRC.

The people don't want a "People's Council" of still anonymous autocrat ammart appointed by Suthep and his PDRC to sit in absolute authority, answerable to no one except Suthep, to rule absolutely over the country for what looks more to be three years instead of 16 or so months. How quickly too three years can turn into five years, then ten years. Mostly fools or fascists ever believed Suthep and the PDRC and now mostly idiots or fascists continue to believe them.

The people have rejected an unelected National Assembly of exclusively "good people" In contrast to the bad people as defined by Suthep and his cave man PDRC, a National Assembly that would be appointed by Suthep and the Bangkok ammart to rule absolutely and, as sensible people know, indefinitely. The Thai people want to elect a democratically representative parliament chosen by one person one vote.

Another big change is that the military have found out they can't do another military mutiny coup d'état. The 2006 military mutiny coup was the most divisive event in the history of Thailand/Siam. Others in certain institutions of the government will also find out soon they too can't execute a judicial coup d'état without even more divisive and grave consequences occurring.

Another big change is that Suthep has lost whatever tiny credibility he once may have had on the heels of the massive amnesty protest. Yet another reality many obsessives can't accept is that amnesty is dead. Still another great change many can't cope with is that Abhisit has lost all credibility domestically and globally. Indeed, Abhisit knows the only way he can return as prime minister is as part of a dictatorship.

One thing that hasn't changed is that Asean and the democracies of the world continue to call for a peaceful and democratic resolution to the internal conflicts of Thailand. In stark contrast, fascists insisting on interposing a dictatorship on Thailand in the name of democracy later is neither peaceful nor is it democratic.

A big non-change is that Yingluck remains as prime minister and the government continues to sit. (That may well change but not without consequences.)

Seismic changes have occurred since December 1st, it's just that some people are brain dead about it.

Don't underestimate how much influence a little international diplomacy can have had on this.

At the beginning, Suthep was out to get rid of Yingluck. The embassies stayed quiet. Then he wanted a committee and the embassies piped up. Then they went to Prem, he stayed quiet.

Now they have dusted Abhisit off and pushed him out into the fray. Suthep obviously overstepped his remit and the plan has changed. Obviously the committee idea was a step too far for a lot of people.

[Publicus]

It's hardly surprising - as these discussions are still taking place between Abhisit and party leaders - that any final communique would be released between them before the fact, but when it is it will clearly be not only instantly mocked by Pheu Thai supporters but in fact will be an actual turning point as well, as this news story suggests - because the Democratic party this afternoon has now gone on record by announcing that unless some form of agreement is reached, they will boycott the election. The argument is exactly the same as it was on December 21 when the party boycotted the previous election. The argument is - nothing has changed. The reforms that needed to be addressed have not been addressed. Pheu Thai is operating as if nothing has changed since November 1 when they passed the amnesty bill at 4 in the morning and started a firestorm in the country. With the Yingluck administration as obstinate as ever - with Surapong and Chalerm as intimidating as ever, with the independent agencies and courts under intimidation, and with Thaksin's skype connection as alive and well as it ever was - absolutely nothing has changed. Why would the Democrats want to enable a quorum for an administration run like this - an administration being directed by a prime minister's brother - why would they possibly want to do that - why would they possibly want to enable an administration that is beset by scandal and criminal investigations ? Pheu Thai supporters will doubtless be delighted with the Democratic party and Abhisit's withdrawal - just as Pheu Thai undoubtedly was in December when they were already dreaming of sweeping every constituency in the country. Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum.

Big changes have occurred the past 180 or so days. So you need to scamper to get up to speed about the significant changes you and so many others around here have missed.

The biggest change of all is that the people reject the "reforms" of the feudalist Suthep and his still anonymous and reclusive cave men of the PDRC.

The people don't want a "People's Council" of still anonymous autocrat ammart appointed by Suthep and his PDRC to sit in absolute authority, answerable to no one except Suthep, to rule absolutely over the country for what looks more to be three years instead of 16 or so months. How quickly too three years can turn into five years, then ten years. Mostly fools or fascists ever believed Suthep and the PDRC and now mostly idiots or fascists continue to believe them.

The people have rejected an unelected National Assembly of exclusively "good people" In contrast to the bad people as defined by Suthep and his cave man PDRC, a National Assembly that would be appointed by Suthep and the Bangkok ammart to rule absolutely and, as sensible people know, indefinitely. The Thai people want to elect a democratically representative parliament chosen by one person one vote.

Another big change is that the military have found out they can't do another military mutiny coup d'état. The 2006 military mutiny coup was the most divisive event in the history of Thailand/Siam. Others in certain institutions of the government will also find out soon they too can't execute a judicial coup d'état without even more divisive and grave consequences occurring.

Another big change is that Suthep has lost whatever tiny credibility he once may have had on the heels of the massive amnesty protest. Yet another reality many obsessives can't accept is that amnesty is dead. Still another great change many can't cope with is that Abhisit has lost all credibility domestically and globally. Indeed, Abhisit knows the only way he can return as prime minister is as part of a dictatorship.

One thing that hasn't changed is that Asean and the democracies of the world continue to call for a peaceful and democratic resolution to the internal conflicts of Thailand. In stark contrast, fascists insisting on interposing a dictatorship on Thailand in the name of democracy later is neither peaceful nor is it democratic.

A big non-change is that Yingluck remains as prime minister and the government continues to sit. (That may well change but not without consequences.)

Seismic changes have occurred since December 1st, it's just that some people are brain dead about it.

Don't underestimate how much influence a little international diplomacy can have had on this.

At the beginning, Suthep was out to get rid of Yingluck. The embassies stayed quiet. Then he wanted a committee and the embassies piped up. Then they went to Prem, he stayed quiet.

Now they have dusted Abhisit off and pushed him out into the fray. Suthep obviously overstepped his remit and the plan has changed. Obviously the committee idea was a step too far for a lot of people.

You raise a very strong point.

The domestic fascists have to dismiss global leaders of government and public opinion whereas I rely on it and am attentive to it regularly and consistently. I've called attention to the purging aspect of the fascist agenda and to the fascism of the fascist agenda, as have many opinion leaders among the democracies of the world, in the United States especially.

At this thread and at other threads I've been attentive to pointing out that Ambassador Kenny once served on the staff of the White House National Security Council and also had been Director of the State Department (Global) Operations Center.

Washington is very active behind the scenes as are the EU, Australia, India, Japan, Asean (many of the Asean elites). Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa, the leading cohesive force of Asean, is heavily involved.

I've been, and continue to be, reserved about drawing too much attention to it in specific terms. Kurt Campbell, the former assistant secretary of State for Pacific and East Asian Affairs - the strongest the US has had in decades - is heavily involved. You'll recall in 2010 Campbell visited with red leaders at Central during their encampment, amidst much howling from the government of Abhisit-Suthep. Campbell has had more to do singularly the past six years in shaping US policy toward Thailand than perhaps any other official in Washington. He's Kenney's advocate to Prez Obama.

The long and the short of it for the moment is that Abhisit (and Suthep) are cooked both domestically and globally. I say this not because the global democracies hope AV will fail, but that they see him as not credible.

The judges know these things too, as do the ammart, Suthep and others up the line. Hence the EC sets an election date, the NACC drags its feet, as do the other judges. The heat is on.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Publicus

[Thai at Heart]

It's hardly surprising - as these discussions are still taking place between Abhisit and party leaders - that any final communique would be released between them before the fact, but when it is it will clearly be not only instantly mocked by Pheu Thai supporters but in fact will be an actual turning point as well, as this news story suggests - because the Democratic party this afternoon has now gone on record by announcing that unless some form of agreement is reached, they will boycott the election. The argument is exactly the same as it was on December 21 when the party boycotted the previous election. The argument is - nothing has changed. The reforms that needed to be addressed have not been addressed. Pheu Thai is operating as if nothing has changed since November 1 when they passed the amnesty bill at 4 in the morning and started a firestorm in the country. With the Yingluck administration as obstinate as ever - with Surapong and Chalerm as intimidating as ever, with the independent agencies and courts under intimidation, and with Thaksin's skype connection as alive and well as it ever was - absolutely nothing has changed. Why would the Democrats want to enable a quorum for an administration run like this - an administration being directed by a prime minister's brother - why would they possibly want to do that - why would they possibly want to enable an administration that is beset by scandal and criminal investigations ? Pheu Thai supporters will doubtless be delighted with the Democratic party and Abhisit's withdrawal - just as Pheu Thai undoubtedly was in December when they were already dreaming of sweeping every constituency in the country. Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum.

Big changes have occurred the past 180 or so days. So you need to scamper to get up to speed about the significant changes you and so many others around here have missed.

The biggest change of all is that the people reject the "reforms" of the feudalist Suthep and his still anonymous and reclusive cave men of the PDRC.

The people don't want a "People's Council" of still anonymous autocrat ammart appointed by Suthep and his PDRC to sit in absolute authority, answerable to no one except Suthep, to rule absolutely over the country for what looks more to be three years instead of 16 or so months. How quickly too three years can turn into five years, then ten years. Mostly fools or fascists ever believed Suthep and the PDRC and now mostly idiots or fascists continue to believe them.

The people have rejected an unelected National Assembly of exclusively "good people" In contrast to the bad people as defined by Suthep and his cave man PDRC, a National Assembly that would be appointed by Suthep and the Bangkok ammart to rule absolutely and, as sensible people know, indefinitely. The Thai people want to elect a democratically representative parliament chosen by one person one vote.

Another big change is that the military have found out they can't do another military mutiny coup d'état. The 2006 military mutiny coup was the most divisive event in the history of Thailand/Siam. Others in certain institutions of the government will also find out soon they too can't execute a judicial coup d'état without even more divisive and grave consequences occurring.

Another big change is that Suthep has lost whatever tiny credibility he once may have had on the heels of the massive amnesty protest. Yet another reality many obsessives can't accept is that amnesty is dead. Still another great change many can't cope with is that Abhisit has lost all credibility domestically and globally. Indeed, Abhisit knows the only way he can return as prime minister is as part of a dictatorship.

One thing that hasn't changed is that Asean and the democracies of the world continue to call for a peaceful and democratic resolution to the internal conflicts of Thailand. In stark contrast, fascists insisting on interposing a dictatorship on Thailand in the name of democracy later is neither peaceful nor is it democratic.

A big non-change is that Yingluck remains as prime minister and the government continues to sit. (That may well change but not without consequences.)

Seismic changes have occurred since December 1st, it's just that some people are brain dead about it.

Don't underestimate how much influence a little international diplomacy can have had on this.

At the beginning, Suthep was out to get rid of Yingluck. The embassies stayed quiet. Then he wanted a committee and the embassies piped up. Then they went to Prem, he stayed quiet.

Now they have dusted Abhisit off and pushed him out into the fray. Suthep obviously overstepped his remit and the plan has changed. Obviously the committee idea was a step too far for a lot of people.

You raise a very strong point.

The domestic fascists have to dismiss global leaders of government and public opinion whereas I rely on it and am attentive to it regularly and consistently. I've called attention to the purging aspect of the fascist agenda and to the fascism of the fascist agenda, as have many opinion leaders among the democracies of the world, in the United States especially.

At this thread and at other threads I've been attentive to pointing out that Ambassador Kenny once served on the staff of the White House National Security Council and also had been Director of the State Department (Global) Operations Center.

Washington is very active behind the scenes as are the EU, Australia, India, Japan, Asean (many of the Asean elites). Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa, the leading cohesive force of Asean, is heavily involved.

I've been, and continue to be, reserved about drawing too much attention to it in specific terms. Kurt Campbell, the former assistant secretary of State for Pacific and East Asian Affairs - the strongest the US has had in decades - is heavily involved. You'll recall in 2010 Campbell visited with red leaders at Central during their encampment, amidst much howling from the government of Abhisit-Suthep. Campbell has had more to do singularly the past six years in shaping US policy toward Thailand than perhaps any other official in Washington. He's Kenney's advocate to Prez Obama.

The long and the short of it for the moment is that Abhisit (and Suthep) are cooked both domestically and globally. I say this not because the global democracies hope AV will fail, but that they see him as not credible.

The judges know these things too, as do the ammart, Suthep and others up the line. Hence the EC sets an election date, the NACC drags its feet, as do the other judges. The heat is on.

Abhisit will live to fight another day. Suthep was finished politically when he quit the democrats. He's completely toast now unless they make him a senator or something.

The issue is, they can't come up with a way that is acceptable domestically or internationally that gets rid.of Yingluck and gives them guaranteed control.for a few years.

[djjamie]

Well done Mark. One knows that elections cannot proceed fairly when Mark himself could not even attend an EC meeting without threats to his life. When the DEM's cannot safely lobby in the North, when leaders of the PTP, being accused terrorist, like Nattawutt do nothing to dissuade the violence against the people. Mark is a beacon of light in a dictatorial abyss that can see that elections are not the beginning, the middle and the end of democracy. It is but 1 small part of it. And like the voter fraud in parliament that they committed they know it can be manipulated. How can one "respect my vote" when the PTP manipulate the process themselves?

[srsv1238]

Well done Mark. One knows that elections cannot proceed fairly when Mark himself could not even attend an EC meeting without threats to his life. When the DEM's cannot safely lobby in the North, when leaders of the PTP, being accused terrorist, like Nattawutt do nothing to dissuade the violence against the people. Mark is a beacon of light in a dictatorial abyss that can see that elections are not the beginning, the middle and the end of democracy. It is but 1 small part of it. And like the voter fraud in parliament that they committed they know it can be manipulated. How can one "respect my vote" when the PTP manipulate the process themselves?

how does the PTP manipulate the process. They are simply guilty of winning.

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[Tywais]

Several duplicates removed and a post requesting the removal. Please use the Report button as it will be more quickly handled. Thanks to the member who did report it.

[srsv1238]

Can't the military be called out to protect voters and prevent the election from being ruined again by a few violent protesters? What happens to internal stability if these elections are annulled again because of a Democratic Party boycott? Wouldn't that be very damaging to internal security?

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