International alarm mounts over Thai coup

fab4 · June 13, 2014

International alarm grows more and more ...

"The forum also agreed that the current development has only little impact on business dealings in Thailand, and they are looking forward to strong recovery as the situation has now been stabilized.

JFCCT also urged Thai people to come together with foreign businesses in Thailand and work as a team in pushing forward the recovery Thailand deserves."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/733734-foreign-investors-expect-economic-recovery-in-thailand-special-report/

The international alarm is not about the Thai economy.

(If you still insist it is, not everybody agrees with the Malaysians and the Norwegians - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/733690-world-bank-sees-dimmer-thai-economic/)

For many months we were told that the anti-government protests were bad for the economy, bad for Thailand, alarming Foreigners, causing International alarm.

I'll think you'll find that the international alarm is not about the Thai economy .You, of course, don't want to believe anything else as your last few posts on this thread are posts saying how everything is rosy on the financial front.

The coup has affected a lot of people in ways that are not reported by the junta for obvious reasons, not that it bothers you - as long as the SET is fine, everything is rosy. Luckily other countries governments are not so easily swayed.

rubl · June 13, 2014

The international alarm is not about the Thai economy.

(If you still insist it is, not everybody agrees with the Malaysians and the Norwegians - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/733690-world-bank-sees-dimmer-thai-economic/)

For many months we were told that the anti-government protests were bad for the economy, bad for Thailand, alarming Foreigners, causing International alarm.

I'll think you'll find that the international alarm is not about the Thai economy .You, of course, don't want to believe anything else as your last few posts on this thread are posts saying how everything is rosy on the financial front.

The coup has affected a lot of people in ways that are not reported by the junta for obvious reasons, not that it bothers you - as long as the SET is fine, everything is rosy. Luckily other countries governments are not so easily swayed.

but the international alarm during the seven months of not-so-caretaking Yingluck administration even got the UN involved. Suggestions of 'international intervention troops' a bit overdone of course, but at least now we have a Thai intervention which stabilised the country, which starts to stabilise the economy and which through the NCPO and its committees starts to get a roadmap to normalcy.

The only thing the ThaksinYingluck administration had to offer was a hastely assembled 'reform' committe which first meeting was chaired by 'policy only' Yingluck to be neglected immediately like the RPPS. The only wonder medicine Yingluck, her handpicked cabinet and Pheu Thai had to offer was 'immediate elections' to try to get a renewed mandate to rape the country.

Now the last should be something real democracies should be alarmed about.

CharlesHH · June 13, 2014

Asiantravel, first, there are not millions of Thai faithful to a political party and not even to voting. Party loyalty is purchased, absentee ballots are purchased, and lots of intimidation is around. There are a few thousand Reds funded by Thaksin who purchased their loyalty (and who must be running to find another tit to live on now) within his political machine.

Then, you can see a few Westerner typists on blogs taking a kneejerk reaction to Thailand by applying their own standards to conditions here which are very different. But the Knee Jerks keep spouting "democracy," "elections," "majority" (even tho the reds never got a majority), and so on. Some Knee Jerk national foreign policy mouthpieces, like Kerry, can use this situation here (or "human rights" used on Red China) as a way to 'lord over' another nation.

Big money news media then joins in with their artificially created drama, posing the 'poor and democratic' against the 'rich and powerful.' That is an easy story to write even from the balcony of the 'reporter's' 5 star hotel room and sells easily to Knee Jerks in the West.

Too, Westerners will jump on the bandwagon and become overnight defenders of freedom, democracy (of what kind?), the poor, and other issues and people that they can feel culturally imperialistically superior to in a fake adopted idea of teaching the little brown people how to do things properly. That is an ugly stance and Thai are not fooled and can see thru arrogant Western chest beating as just ignorant and fake.

So there!

They will all mouth similar platitudes - but as long as business interests are safe and there's not mass bloodshed it will be business as usual. The international community is much more worried about Ukraine and the international ramifications than meddlesome domestics of Thailand. Baht seems solid as a rock at the moment as far as Sterling is concerned.

" it will be business as usual "

.

I have no idea how you could possibly reach that conclusion without knowing exactly how the millions who voted for the previous government are going to react to all this?

sumtingwong · June 13, 2014

Asiantravel, first, there are not millions of Thai faithful to a political party and not even to voting. Party loyalty is purchased, absentee ballots are purchased, and lots of intimidation is around. There are a few thousand Reds funded by Thaksin who purchased their loyalty (and who must be running to find another tit to live on now) within his political machine.

Then, you can see a few Westerner typists on blogs taking a kneejerk reaction to Thailand by applying their own standards to conditions here which are very different. But the Knee Jerks keep spouting "democracy," "elections," "majority" (even tho the reds never got a majority), and so on. Some Knee Jerk national foreign policy mouthpieces, like Kerry, can use this situation here (or "human rights" used on Red China) as a way to 'lord over' another nation.

Big money news media then joins in with their artificially created drama, posing the 'poor and democratic' against the 'rich and powerful.' That is an easy story to write even from the balcony of the 'reporter's' 5 star hotel room and sells easily to Knee Jerks in the West.

Too, Westerners will jump on the bandwagon and become overnight defenders of freedom, democracy (of what kind?), the poor, and other issues and people that they can feel culturally imperialistically superior to in a fake adopted idea of teaching the little brown people how to do things properly. That is an ugly stance and Thai are not fooled and can see thru arrogant Western chest beating as just ignorant and fake.

So there!

They will all mouth similar platitudes - but as long as business interests are safe and there's not mass bloodshed it will be business as usual. The international community is much more worried about Ukraine and the international ramifications than meddlesome domestics of Thailand. Baht seems solid as a rock at the moment as far as Sterling is concerned.

" it will be business as usual "

.

I have no idea how you could possibly reach that conclusion without knowing exactly how the millions who voted for the previous government are going to react to all this?

Alexander Fraser Tytler - "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

inutil · June 13, 2014

Yes, and thats why britain always votes en masse for the labour party and the conservatives have gone the way of the whigs... oh... wait!

Did you know that in a populist democracy (just like the ones we have in both the UK and the US), you can actually encourage people to vote against their own interests by offering them something they'd rather have.

And it doesnt have to be actual material things like 500 baht. It can be things like 'security', 'jobs', 'regulation', 'a level playing field', and 'patriotism'.

This is the joy of democracy. People who hate you can convince you to vote against your own interests so they can retain power, influence and wealth entirely at your expense. It's a mysterious thing because people are agents with their own volition and their own dirty self-interests.

At no point is anyone willing to ask "WHY" could Yingluck romp home in any election at any time? Why were the opposition so utterly ineffective DESPITE outspending her? Also if it was so corrupt, why did both the EC and the Democrats ACCEPT the results of the 2011 election as largely fair and free (did they not investigate???) Why did the King sanction the appointment of Yingluck? Was he wrong? Was he lied to? By whom? Thaksin? Thaksin has the ear of the King? :? At no point is anyone willing to ask whether Suthep just stole power from the democrats for yet another generation at the ballot box when things like the rice scandal were open goals for a functional opposition looking to (HAVING TO) make inroads into red-voting areas?

The tablet scheme, the high speed rail, flood defences, the rice scheme, in fact, EVEN the world cup rights being sold to a cable group with a mere 22 matches to be shown on terrestrial TV were all scandals that PTP should have been facing and having to deal with right now! Christ only knows what other scandals are due. But the point is, they were let off the hook. Completely let off the hook. The second the military rolled in, all things would have been forgiven because the opposition will be viewed as being in cahoots with these events (and actively seeking them as a means to garner power). The democrats would have been looking a viable alternative to 'jam tomorrow!' populism. All they had to do was press home the advantage, steamroller the incompetency, show themselves as a responsible and viable government in waiting and bish bosh! voter swing!

The democrats are locked out for another generation. And should there be serious reform to 1 person 1 vote (or more likely, extraordinary boundary changes and weighting of MPs to benefit yellow held areas - with more potential seats in the house for the yellows and less for the reds (despite population numbers), then tensions will rise yet again.

So whats the solution then? A return to absolute Monarchy? A military state for a generation? Or thinly disguised electoral reforms putting the balance of power back in the hands of the Democrats? We shall see. But its not populism that brings us here. Its contempt. Contempt of a democratic process to allow the people to vote and choose their leaders, and contempt of the idea that people can and will vote in their self interest.

Edited June 13, 2014 by inutil

Ozybear · June 13, 2014

How many times must you be told, it's not a COUP.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

heybruce · June 13, 2014

The military government is making some headlines and embarrassing the police. I suspect that if the police, or anyone else, were allowed an unrestricted investigation of the activities and the accounts of the military they could make some headlines as well.

In the real world in Thailand, there's still a curfew, still censorship, still soldiers on the streets and still creepy interruptions of television programs so the junta can announce dozens of names of people required to report to the government.

We still haven't seen the reforms, still don't know what the new constitution will look like, and still don't know when there will be elections. If the international pressure doesn't continue we may not see these things for a long time.

Getting impatient, my dear Brucy?

Would you really feel better if the NCPO suddenly came with the 'reforms' like the Yingluck government suddenly came with it's Blanket Amnesty Bill ? Was the coup really already at least in last month, oh so long ago?

Impatient with the curfew, censorship, soldiers in the streets, and creepy special announcements? In keeping with new forum policies, not at all.

Regarding reforms, a new constitution, and elections, a timeline would be nice. Of course we know that the reforms will have some window dressing restrictions on elected officials passed off as anti-corruption rules with no meaningful visibility into the accounts and operations of the civil service, military, or other traditional institutions. The new constitution will have just enough democracy for appearances sake, but not enough to challenge the traditional institutions.

The main driver to the timeline is obvious to well informed people. I want international pressure to continue to reduce the chances that the military isn't comfortable in power at that time. I can think of no example of an extended period of military rule being good for a country.

You still haven't replied to post #1196 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728548-international-alarm-mounts-over-thai-coup/page-48. Do you consider people who encourage others to stay informed using outside news sources to be "agent provocateurs"?

A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago.

Of course some who say they want to know the reforms seem to 'know' already that 'off course' there will be some 'window dressing', whatever that may mean. If no details are yet known as commissions are being formed and the public is being invited to come forward with ideas on reform, any 'knowledge' seems to be 'opinion' only.

As for your question, don't tempt me like that, my dear Brucy. Some may call it baiting. Especially since you already wrote

"Those who are genuinely interested in possible alternative motives of the generals need to check uncensored news sources."

"As far as I know it's still legal to look for news on the web, there's just some information you can't disseminate in Thailand."

"A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago."

All I can recall are statements about no elections for over a year. Can you provide a link to something more specific?

"As for your question, don't tempt me like that, my dear Brucy. Some may call it baiting."

My question was "Do you consider people who encourage others to stay informed using outside news sources to be "agent provocateurs"?" I've made it clear that I think it is legal and advisable for people stay informed using outside news sources, but they should be cautious about providing links on this forum. My question was not baiting, it was a simple yes or no question. I'll make it even simpler for you: Do you think that people who publicly promote their views should make an effort to stay broadly informed?

rubl · June 13, 2014

A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago.

Of course some who say they want to know the reforms seem to 'know' already that 'off course' there will be some 'window dressing', whatever that may mean. If no details are yet known as commissions are being formed and the public is being invited to come forward with ideas on reform, any 'knowledge' seems to be 'opinion' only.

"A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago."

All I can recall are statements about no elections for over a year. Can you provide a link to something more specific?

As far as I know not many specifics have been provided, at least not in English. In Thai more seems available, but still fairly limited. Most seems on formation of committees, peopling those committees, rough indication of topic to be handled, and such.

Mind you, how many days ago was the 22nd of May 2014?

Edited June 13, 2014 by rubl

fab4 · June 13, 2014

Asiantravel, first, there are not millions of Thai faithful to a political party and not even to voting. Party loyalty is purchased, absentee ballots are purchased, and lots of intimidation is around. There are a few thousand Reds funded by Thaksin who purchased their loyalty (and who must be running to find another tit to live on now) within his political machine.

Then, you can see a few Westerner typists on blogs taking a kneejerk reaction to Thailand by applying their own standards to conditions here which are very different. But the Knee Jerks keep spouting "democracy," "elections," "majority" (even tho the reds never got a majority), and so on. Some Knee Jerk national foreign policy mouthpieces, like Kerry, can use this situation here (or "human rights" used on Red China) as a way to 'lord over' another nation.

Big money news media then joins in with their artificially created drama, posing the 'poor and democratic' against the 'rich and powerful.' That is an easy story to write even from the balcony of the 'reporter's' 5 star hotel room and sells easily to Knee Jerks in the West.

Too, Westerners will jump on the bandwagon and become overnight defenders of freedom, democracy (of what kind?), the poor, and other issues and people that they can feel culturally imperialistically superior to in a fake adopted idea of teaching the little brown people how to do things properly. That is an ugly stance and Thai are not fooled and can see thru arrogant Western chest beating as just ignorant and fake.

So there!

" it will be business as usual "

.

I have no idea how you could possibly reach that conclusion without knowing exactly how the millions who voted for the previous government are going to react to all this?

Alexander Fraser Tytler - "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to know an 18th Century Scottish Judge's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

Edited June 13, 2014 by fab4

siampolee · June 13, 2014

fab4 post # 1269

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to know an 18th Century Scottish Judge's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

Wrong yet again .

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to be reminded of Thaksin Shinwatra's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

fab4 · June 13, 2014

but the international alarm during the seven months of not-so-caretaking Yingluck administration even got the UN involved. Suggestions of 'international intervention troops' a bit overdone of course, but at least now we have a Thai intervention which stabilised the country, which starts to stabilise the economy and which through the NCPO and its committees starts to get a roadmap to normalcy.

The only thing the ~~Thaksin~~Yingluck administration had to offer was a hastely assembled 'reform' committe which first meeting was chaired by 'policy only' Yingluck to be neglected immediately like the RPPS. The only wonder medicine Yingluck, her handpicked cabinet and Pheu Thai had to offer was 'immediate elections' to try to get a renewed mandate to rape the country.

Now the last should be something real democracies should be alarmed about.

My, how you lap it up. "Rape the country" my <redacted>. Look a bit deeper, rubl, not that you want to.

Edited June 13, 2014 by fab4

heybruce · June 13, 2014

Asiantravel, first, there are not millions of Thai faithful to a political party and not even to voting. Party loyalty is purchased, absentee ballots are purchased, and lots of intimidation is around. There are a few thousand Reds funded by Thaksin who purchased their loyalty (and who must be running to find another tit to live on now) within his political machine.

Then, you can see a few Westerner typists on blogs taking a kneejerk reaction to Thailand by applying their own standards to conditions here which are very different. But the Knee Jerks keep spouting "democracy," "elections," "majority" (even tho the reds never got a majority), and so on. Some Knee Jerk national foreign policy mouthpieces, like Kerry, can use this situation here (or "human rights" used on Red China) as a way to 'lord over' another nation.

Big money news media then joins in with their artificially created drama, posing the 'poor and democratic' against the 'rich and powerful.' That is an easy story to write even from the balcony of the 'reporter's' 5 star hotel room and sells easily to Knee Jerks in the West.

Too, Westerners will jump on the bandwagon and become overnight defenders of freedom, democracy (of what kind?), the poor, and other issues and people that they can feel culturally imperialistically superior to in a fake adopted idea of teaching the little brown people how to do things properly. That is an ugly stance and Thai are not fooled and can see thru arrogant Western chest beating as just ignorant and fake.

So there!

They will all mouth similar platitudes - but as long as business interests are safe and there's not mass bloodshed it will be business as usual. The international community is much more worried about Ukraine and the international ramifications than meddlesome domestics of Thailand. Baht seems solid as a rock at the moment as far as Sterling is concerned.

" it will be business as usual "

.

I have no idea how you could possibly reach that conclusion without knowing exactly how the millions who voted for the previous government are going to react to all this?

Alexander Fraser Tytler - "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

jaidam · June 13, 2014

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

Well, the junta is doing a cracking job, don't you agree? More progress has been made in the last month than the last 3 years(admittedly the last 3 yrs we were regressing to a pure kleptocracy/mafia state). Once the shock and distress of losing the Shin's wears off I'm sure you will be singing the good generals praises.

heybruce · June 13, 2014

A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago.

Of course some who say they want to know the reforms seem to 'know' already that 'off course' there will be some 'window dressing', whatever that may mean. If no details are yet known as commissions are being formed and the public is being invited to come forward with ideas on reform, any 'knowledge' seems to be 'opinion' only.

"A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago."

All I can recall are statements about no elections for over a year. Can you provide a link to something more specific?

As far as I know not many specifics have been provided, at least not in English. In Thai more seems available, but still fairly limited. Most seems on formation of committees, peopling those committees, rough indication of topic to be handled, and such.

Mind you, how many days ago was the 22nd of May 2014?

So when you wrote "A timeline has been given" you meant a timeline without specifics. That's not very useful.

You edited my post to avoid, once again, my question about forum posters staying informed:

""As for your question, don't tempt me like that, my dear Brucy. Some may call it baiting."

My question was "Do you consider people who encourage others to stay informed using outside news sources to be "agent provocateurs"?" I've made it clear that I think it is legal and advisable for people stay informed using outside news sources, but they should be cautious about providing links on this forum. My question was not baiting, it was a simple yes or no question. I'll make it even simpler for you: Do you think that people who publicly promote their views should make an effort to stay broadly informed?"

heybruce · June 13, 2014

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

Well, the junta is doing a cracking job, don't you agree? More progress has been made in the last month than the last 3 years(admittedly the last 3 yrs we were regressing to a pure kleptocracy/mafia state). Once the shock and distress of losing the Shin's wears off I'm sure you will be singing the good generals praises.

A "cracking job"? I'm reminded of early 2001 in the US when some people were describing President George W. Bush as one of the greatest in history a few weeks after his inauguration.

For further details I'll refer you to an earlier post:

The military government is making some headlines and embarrassing the police. I suspect that if the police, or anyone else, were allowed an unrestricted investigation of the activities and the accounts of the military they could make some headlines as well.

In the real world in Thailand, there's still a curfew, still censorship, still soldiers on the streets and still creepy interruptions of television programs so the junta can announce dozens of names of people required to report to the government.

We still haven't seen the reforms, still don't know what the new constitution will look like, and still don't know when there will be elections. If the international pressure doesn't continue we may not see these things for a long time.

Am I correct in thinking your are one of many who prefer military government to democracy?

dhrobertson · June 13, 2014

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Jonathan Head just gave a fairly balanced report on BBC World!!

I'm in a state of shock.

I need a cup of tea and a biscuit please.........

dhrobertson · June 13, 2014

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News
My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Are you saying that the people Head interviewed were lying?

Thank goodness that we still have access to uncensored media reports.

Lying or not is not always relevant. It is selective reporting. I am sure you can find a KKK member to tell you about the oppression of the whites in the USA and the evil control of the Jews and Blacks - would that make it true or news worthy? The Beeb should be ashamed of such biased unchecked reporting - they should have learned that lesson over events that cost the DG his job a few years back! If they put someone like Head on, they should counter with either commentary, questions or a report from the other stable.

What nonsense. The BBC have reported the 'other side' many times. For this one (short) report where Head travelled to Isaan to find out how the Reds were coping with the coup. All credit for them for doing so, as no one else is reporting it.

The question was "Are you saying that the people Head interviewed were lying?" - my response was a direct answer to that question. It matters not a jot if they air the other side or not, they should still not air overtly biased or selective reports as if they are fact and without commentary to the fact, or challenge. You are emotive because of your ideology - but if the opposite had been done, someone interviewing PDRC members at home about the last government, and thus a very biased report was aired against your position, without challenge, would that still be OK?

Me, I would argue against both - people believe what they are shown on the box - especially the news and even more so it being Auntie. A news channel is not the place for soapboxing or propaganda being disseminated as news; biased reports are fine AS LONG as they are challenged - then the people can chose whom to believe.

//Edit: Keyboard hates me

I have no ideology as far as Thai politics are concerned. I just think it's good journalism to seek out some Isaan folk to find out their views about the coup. No other news organisation seems to be doing this.

Sent from my GT-S7270L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just going to Udon (direct flight from BKK) and digging out a few Thaksin fans doesn't really give a balanced view.

If he went to say to say Roi Et or Kalasin or Mukdahan and spoke to a cross section he might get a more balanced view.

In my opinion a majority in nthye NE are optimistic about the army taking control.........

dhrobertson · June 13, 2014

Well, I stand corrected and disappointed

Maybe I'm just old (fashioned) but I do recall the BBC in better days when they DID try to achieve objectivity and give at least some air time to opposing views.

My information is not as parochial as you may think

I mix socially with all types here in Phuket and run a consultancy business (electrical engineering)

I also socialise in Bangkok (The British Club etc)

My wife's family are from Nakhon Phanon Province and we visit the wider family there frequently.

My son is married to woman from Buri Ram (who graduated from a top BKK university)

So, I think my sources are pretty eclectic

The Economist is also surprisingly weak on Thailand

I also think Aljazeera is pretty good.

All I'm asking for is some balance here.

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

Well I'm going to throw my two pennyworth in here. I not only went to the same university as Jonathan Head, though not the same college, but also the same school. My own view about my fellow Old Alleynian is that he still has an axe to grind where Thailand in concerned and it has a tendency to show in some of his asides.

Then you will be interested to know that another Dulwich and Cambridge man told me a few years ago when I met him at an Ox and Cam dinner that Jonathan Head was one of the finest foreign journalists working in Thailand.He was fulsome in his praise and I am inclined to take his word rather than the criticism of various expatriates of unknown origin.My informant's name? Anand Panyarachun.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Thank you for your post, jayboy and I appreciate entirely what you say.

I would also readily accept that I am in a minority when it comes to my opinion of JH as a journalist but having lived here for over a decade my current opinion is based solely on his output in his time here in Thailand.

Clearly as a D and C man he can't be all bad!

Regards

Doesn't say much for the other journalists!

(What's the name of that bloody woman with the crew cut again?)

Ricardo · June 13, 2014

Isn't it time for a new thread, entitled something like "International Mild-Disapproval Over Thai Coup", to follow-on from this one ?

Ozybear · June 13, 2014

It's not a COUP!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

rubl · June 13, 2014

but the international alarm during the seven months of not-so-caretaking Yingluck administration even got the UN involved. Suggestions of 'international intervention troops' a bit overdone of course, but at least now we have a Thai intervention which stabilised the country, which starts to stabilise the economy and which through the NCPO and its committees starts to get a roadmap to normalcy.

The only thing the ~~Thaksin~~Yingluck administration had to offer was a hastely assembled 'reform' committe which first meeting was chaired by 'policy only' Yingluck to be neglected immediately like the RPPS. The only wonder medicine Yingluck, her handpicked cabinet and Pheu Thai had to offer was 'immediate elections' to try to get a renewed mandate to rape the country.

Now the last should be something real democracies should be alarmed about.

My, how you lap it up. "Rape the country" my <redacted>. Look a bit deeper, rubl, not that you want to.

Looking somewhat deeper I can see what others tried to bury, my dear fabs. Like the alarm the lack of international response to the coup is causing some posters here.

From your <redacted> uncle rubl.

ginjag · June 13, 2014

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Well, the junta is doing a cracking job, don't you agree? More progress has been made in the last month than the last 3 years(admittedly the last 3 yrs we were regressing to a pure kleptocracy/mafia state). Once the shock and distress of losing the Shin's wears off I'm sure you will be singing the good generals praises.

A "cracking job"? I'm reminded of early 2001 in the US when some people were describing President George W. Bush as one of the greatest in history a few weeks after his inauguration.

For further details I'll refer you to an earlier post:

The military government is making some headlines and embarrassing the police. I suspect that if the police, or anyone else, were allowed an unrestricted investigation of the activities and the accounts of the military they could make some headlines as well.

In the real world in Thailand, there's still a curfew, still censorship, still soldiers on the streets and still creepy interruptions of television programs so the junta can announce dozens of names of people required to report to the government.

We still haven't seen the reforms, still don't know what the new constitution will look like, and still don't know when there will be elections. If the international pressure doesn't continue we may not see these things for a long time.

Am I correct in thinking your are one of many who prefer military government to democracy?

Can I correct YOU, most of us here on TVF prefer a military (temporary) government, than a Shin dictatorial one who ignored opposition and advice from no end of interested parties. Then it shot it's greedy self in the foot. Stupid PTP when they had 4 years to do good for Thailand and wasted 3 on themselves.

Who in hell wants to know about G,Bush ???

I try to understand --you post in favour of the most corrupt Shin government, But here you are slagging off the Army for saving Thailand from utter destruction.

My god talk about controversial people, you are one. what do you want ?? democracy ??? you had that chance when you were voted in and threw it away by being opposite to democracy.---Now you call the Army undemocratic ??? scans needed.

rubl · June 13, 2014

A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago.

Of course some who say they want to know the reforms seem to 'know' already that 'off course' there will be some 'window dressing', whatever that may mean. If no details are yet known as commissions are being formed and the public is being invited to come forward with ideas on reform, any 'knowledge' seems to be 'opinion' only.

"A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago."

All I can recall are statements about no elections for over a year. Can you provide a link to something more specific?

As far as I know not many specifics have been provided, at least not in English. In Thai more seems available, but still fairly limited. Most seems on formation of committees, peopling those committees, rough indication of topic to be handled, and such.

Mind you, how many days ago was the 22nd of May 2014?

So when you wrote "A timeline has been given" you meant a timeline without specifics. That's not very useful.

You edited my post to avoid, once again, my question about forum posters staying informed:

""As for your question, don't tempt me like that, my dear Brucy. Some may call it baiting."

My question was "Do you consider people who encourage others to stay informed using outside news sources to be "agent provocateurs"?" I've made it clear that I think it is legal and advisable for people stay informed using outside news sources, but they should be cautious about providing links on this forum. My question was not baiting, it was a simple yes or no question. I'll make it even simpler for you: Do you think that people who publicly promote their views should make an effort to stay broadly informed?"

A timeline with (if I remember correctly) three main phases leading to elections later 2015. You may think that to be 'not very useful', but I'm afraid the NCPO didn't really take your reaction into consideration.

As for your question, I thought that by now you'd understand that I will not give an answer to the question which changes in phrasing with every try you do.

BTW why would people who publicly bother others with their views need to even make an effort to stay broadly informed? I get the impression some really like to promote their views with a single mindedness which can (frankly) be called astounding.

Edited June 13, 2014 by rubl

fab4 · June 13, 2014

fab4 post # 1269

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to know an 18th Century Scottish Judge's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

Wrong yet again .

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to be reminded of Thaksin Shinwatra's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

Christ on a bike, you're tiresome. The quote is not from Thaksin , you already knew that but decided to make that pointless post anyway. Why do you do that? What is the point?

Edited June 13, 2014 by fab4

ginjag · June 13, 2014

Well I'm going to throw my two pennyworth in here. I not only went to the same university as Jonathan Head, though not the same college, but also the same school. My own view about my fellow Old Alleynian is that he still has an axe to grind where Thailand in concerned and it has a tendency to show in some of his asides.

Then you will be interested to know that another Dulwich and Cambridge man told me a few years ago when I met him at an Ox and Cam dinner that Jonathan Head was one of the finest foreign journalists working in Thailand.He was fulsome in his praise and I am inclined to take his word rather than the criticism of various expatriates of unknown origin.My informant's name? Anand Panyarachun.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Thank you for your post, jayboy and I appreciate entirely what you say.

I would also readily accept that I am in a minority when it comes to my opinion of JH as a journalist but having lived here for over a decade my current opinion is based solely on his output in his time here in Thailand.

Clearly as a D and C man he can't be all bad!

Regards

Doesn't say much for the other journalists!

(What's the name of that bloody woman with the crew cut again?)

Don't forget the red journalist from the BBC---2010 + Rachael Harvey----Dick Head soaked up all her thoughts, no wonder he has the wrong angle mostly.

fab4 · June 13, 2014

Looking somewhat deeper I can see what others tried to bury, my dear fabs. Like the alarm the lack of international response to the coup is causing some posters here.

From your <redacted> uncle rubl.

You're looking in the wrong place, rubl, and you've got your eyes closed, but hey, nothing new there.

rubl · June 13, 2014

Looking somewhat deeper I can see what others tried to bury, my dear fabs. Like the alarm the lack of international response to the coup is causing some posters here.
From your <redacted> uncle rubl.

You're looking in the wrong place, rubl, and you've got your eyes closed, but hey, nothing new there.

Looking in the wrong place? Should I start digging in Rayong (again) you mean?

Anyway, I know I'm good but typing with my eyes closed is not amongst my skills.

With eyes wide shut or so,

uncle rubl

Edited June 13, 2014 by rubl

heybruce · June 13, 2014

"A timeline has been given by Gen. Prayuth, a week or two ago."

All I can recall are statements about no elections for over a year. Can you provide a link to something more specific?

As far as I know not many specifics have been provided, at least not in English. In Thai more seems available, but still fairly limited. Most seems on formation of committees, peopling those committees, rough indication of topic to be handled, and such.

Mind you, how many days ago was the 22nd of May 2014?

So when you wrote "A timeline has been given" you meant a timeline without specifics. That's not very useful.

You edited my post to avoid, once again, my question about forum posters staying informed:

""As for your question, don't tempt me like that, my dear Brucy. Some may call it baiting."

My question was "Do you consider people who encourage others to stay informed using outside news sources to be "agent provocateurs"?" I've made it clear that I think it is legal and advisable for people stay informed using outside news sources, but they should be cautious about providing links on this forum. My question was not baiting, it was a simple yes or no question. I'll make it even simpler for you: Do you think that people who publicly promote their views should make an effort to stay broadly informed?"

A timeline with (if I remember correctly) three main phases leading to elections later 2015. You may think that to be 'not very useful', but I'm afraid the NCPO didn't really take your reaction into consideration.

As for your question, I thought that by now you'd understand that I will not give an answer to the question which changes in phrasing with every try you do.

BTW why would people who publicly bother others with their views need to even make an effort to stay broadly informed? I get the impression some really like to promote their views with a single mindedness which can (frankly) be called astounding.

"As for your question, I thought that by now you'd understand that I will not give an answer to the question which changes in phrasing with every try you do."

While you have repeatedly implied checking outside news sources is dangerous (post #1196 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728548-international-alarm-mounts-over-thai-coup/page-48), you repeatedly dodge answering a simple yes/no question on the subject it no matter how it is phrased.

"BTW why would people who publicly bother others with their views need to even make an effort to stay broadly informed? I get the impression some really like to promote their views with a single mindedness which can (frankly) be called astounding."

If I ignore the "publicly bother" part I think you are asking why people who post their views should stay broadly informed. What's the point in posting ignorant views? Also, if you're bothered by people posting on TV forum, why do you keep coming back to it?

sumtingwong · June 13, 2014

Asiantravel, first, there are not millions of Thai faithful to a political party and not even to voting. Party loyalty is purchased, absentee ballots are purchased, and lots of intimidation is around. There are a few thousand Reds funded by Thaksin who purchased their loyalty (and who must be running to find another tit to live on now) within his political machine.

Then, you can see a few Westerner typists on blogs taking a kneejerk reaction to Thailand by applying their own standards to conditions here which are very different. But the Knee Jerks keep spouting "democracy," "elections," "majority" (even tho the reds never got a majority), and so on. Some Knee Jerk national foreign policy mouthpieces, like Kerry, can use this situation here (or "human rights" used on Red China) as a way to 'lord over' another nation.

Big money news media then joins in with their artificially created drama, posing the 'poor and democratic' against the 'rich and powerful.' That is an easy story to write even from the balcony of the 'reporter's' 5 star hotel room and sells easily to Knee Jerks in the West.

Too, Westerners will jump on the bandwagon and become overnight defenders of freedom, democracy (of what kind?), the poor, and other issues and people that they can feel culturally imperialistically superior to in a fake adopted idea of teaching the little brown people how to do things properly. That is an ugly stance and Thai are not fooled and can see thru arrogant Western chest beating as just ignorant and fake.

So there!

" it will be business as usual "

.

I have no idea how you could possibly reach that conclusion without knowing exactly how the millions who voted for the previous government are going to react to all this?

Alexander Fraser Tytler - "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to know an 18th Century Scottish Judge's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

I guess you feel the same way about 18th Century: Isaac Newton.

sumtingwong · June 13, 2014

Asiantravel, first, there are not millions of Thai faithful to a political party and not even to voting. Party loyalty is purchased, absentee ballots are purchased, and lots of intimidation is around. There are a few thousand Reds funded by Thaksin who purchased their loyalty (and who must be running to find another tit to live on now) within his political machine.

Then, you can see a few Westerner typists on blogs taking a kneejerk reaction to Thailand by applying their own standards to conditions here which are very different. But the Knee Jerks keep spouting "democracy," "elections," "majority" (even tho the reds never got a majority), and so on. Some Knee Jerk national foreign policy mouthpieces, like Kerry, can use this situation here (or "human rights" used on Red China) as a way to 'lord over' another nation.

Big money news media then joins in with their artificially created drama, posing the 'poor and democratic' against the 'rich and powerful.' That is an easy story to write even from the balcony of the 'reporter's' 5 star hotel room and sells easily to Knee Jerks in the West.

Too, Westerners will jump on the bandwagon and become overnight defenders of freedom, democracy (of what kind?), the poor, and other issues and people that they can feel culturally imperialistically superior to in a fake adopted idea of teaching the little brown people how to do things properly. That is an ugly stance and Thai are not fooled and can see thru arrogant Western chest beating as just ignorant and fake.

So there!

" it will be business as usual "

.

I have no idea how you could possibly reach that conclusion without knowing exactly how the millions who voted for the previous government are going to react to all this?

Alexander Fraser Tytler - "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

An election does not a democracy make. "Elections Do Not Make Democracy" "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."

"But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."

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