Restoring democracy must be main focus of coup leaders

[keithet]

There was a journalist from the Nation on BBC just now on TV. Looks like he was detained. I wonder if it was the man who wrote this???

[wabothai]

Well written editorial, though perhaps not without consequences.....

if it is written by a thai all honour to him

[wabothai]

Problem is that the #1 reform on one sides list (fully elected Senate), most likely collide head on with the anti-gorvernment side (full appointed senate?). A fully elected house of representatives under democratic principles will continue to be lead by votes from the north and northeast. The actions since 2006 have cemented how those parts of the country will vote for the next decade, vote buying or not.

I hope they do one change that will make the system more stable. Changes to the constitution should be proposed in one 4 year period and voted with 3/5 (or 2/3) majority in parliament during the next 4 year period. Then it should be possible to clip the constitution courts power. In general, the 2007 constitution gave the courts veto on law changes. That breaks the checks in democracy. Politicians make laws, police upholds them and the courts rule on them.

Right now the money would be on history repeating itself. Or Thailand sliding into permanent military dicatorship becoming this centuries Burma.

how about the "kiling fields" it can happen again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris Lawrence]

I thouhgt for once they might be onto something, but the need to take sides was to much to ask from The Nation. To understand what has been going on for things to be restored you need to do a fair bit of google. for instiance:

The Nation and the Bangkok Post are similar in their coverage of international news and address mainly the Thai upper and upper-middle classes who've gained access to English language education (often international education). The Nation tends to be somewhat more favourable of pro-royalist and pro-elitist governments in its editorials and is a bit more nationalist than the Post in its daily reportage, which often has a more "mainstream" or Western perspective. Though again it must be stressed the majority target audience of both publications are Thais who can read English - with "farangs" as a minority.

and:

After Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was elected in 2001, several companies associated with him ceased to advertise in The Nation. The newspaper reported on the advertising cuts and adopted a vehemently anti-Thaksin editorial line.

But what I thought would have been good was:

In December 2007 an unknown person started a satirical website called Not The Nation, a send-up of The Nation's website and coverage of Thai affairs. For a while the website was non-functioning, for unknown reasons. Its pages once featured an image of Abhisit with the quotation: "A perfectly legal site. but we're working on that" and another of Thaksin with the legend, "didn't I sue them out of existence in 2004?"^[3] The site later satirized itself with a link to Who Do We Wrongly Think Is Behind NTN?[ Wikipedia

'Stakeholders are talking about political reform but reform should not mean changing the ground rules so that the Democrat Party could win an election. It's about a sense of fair play but asking that from these political extremists from both camps is like asking a bear to use a flush toilet.

As for the Pheu Thai Party, they need to look and think beyond winning a general election because no matter how many votes they get and how many times they win, as long as there is no sense of fair play during the vote and afterwards, this vicious political confrontation and street battles will continue. And the country will be back to the starting blocks again.

Reform needs to be as inclusive as possible. It needs to reflect the sentiment and values of the Thai people, not one particular stakeholder, or cement the military's place in national politics. If we can't realise that, we won't be able to move forward as a nation.'

I just don't understand what the reporter is trying to suggest? Fair play is majority? The majority voted for one party? True about not cementing the armed forces in politics, but they are allover the boards of prominent businesses? Is he having a go of the northern poor without flush toilets? As this is a class driven Thai paper is he saying reform needs to take into account the elites power base and that it must be retained?

They still don't like Mr T because he affected their revenue and got them in trouble with their lese-majeste issue with Sondhi.

So when you go back on the history, what may be said now is not what is really being talked about.

Would more satire help or is this just a means of more court action?

[IMA_FARANG]

"Restoring Democracy".

That nonsense makes me sick.

The true fact is, as someone else said on another topic, there is no real Democracy to restore in Thailand.

Hasn't been any real democracy in Thailand for well over a decade.......perhaps longer.

The reason is because both of the main political parties are corrupt.

Years ago both of the main political parties sold their souls to their favorite group of dominant wealthy Capitalist oligarchs.

Those wealthy Capitalist oligarchies have simply purchased their group of "politicians" and are offering their set of "purchased politicians" as "Democracy" through political parties to the gullible Thai electorate.

Democracy in Thailand is a sham, the corrupt politicians and their "political parties" were long ago bought and sold by the wealthy high so Capitalist elite who merely want to extend their life style of power and wealth.

What passes for "Democracy" in Thailand is simply a sham.... a way to keep those in control in control as long as they can.

Thaksin and his Shin clan are wealthy Capitalist billionaires. The heads of the Democrat Party are wealthy Capitalist hi-so elites also.

Who you vote for in a meaningless "Democratic" election makes no difference, it's all for show because all the politicians have long ago been bought and paid for.

That is why "Democracy" in Thailand, is a meaningless and pointless farce.

Restore Democracy. Nonsense. There is no Democracy to be restored right now, and the hasn't been in Thailand for a long time.

Now there IS a economic divide in Thailand between those who have-not and don't have the opportunity to become haves, and the haves who are doing the best they can to manipulate the situation with "Democracy" and "Politics" to keep their power and prestige intact.

Maybe some time that will change. But it won't be changed by this nonsensical farce called "Democracy" in Thailand.

In fact the phony "Democracy" in Thailand now is exactly why Thailand is in this mess with another coup right now.

[Isaco54]

It would have been awesome if they had banned the key heads here that are disrupting peace in the country. If one head cause instabilities, they should ban them out of politics,

[SiggiCM]

Thailand never was a democratic country. thai people go shopping, been angry that can not watch TV soap opera for 2 days, in a country of 60 Million only some hundreds demonstrate against the Junta, shows the reality. For democracy you have to fight and may be make great sacrifices. If this would happend in Europe. Millions of people would go on street and fight (may be until death) even they have comparing to Thailand easy life.

A country where people not get a education what teach the democratic standards like free speech, accept responsibility, solve problems, learn to discuss and accept or better understand that all people are the same, not Thai better than foreigners, IS NOT ABLE TO BE A DEMOCRATIC STATE!

All People who accept this are same who followed Franco, Musselini and Hitler, hw long they not got any problem it was ok, or may be they made their fortune

[3NUMBAS]

mistakes have been repeated ad nauseum

[shadmo63]

"Restoring Democracy".

That nonsense makes me sick.

The true fact is, as someone else said on another topic, there is no real Democracy to restore in Thailand.

Hasn't been any real democracy in Thailand for well over a decade.......perhaps longer.

The reason is because both of the main political parties are corrupt.

Years ago both of the main political parties sold their souls to their favorite group of dominant wealthy Capitalist oligarchs.

Those wealthy Capitalist oligarchies have simply purchased their group of "politicians" and are offering their set of "purchased politicians" as "Democracy" through political parties to the gullible Thai electorate.

Democracy in Thailand is a sham, the corrupt politicians and their "political parties" were long ago bought and sold by the wealthy high so Capitalist elite who merely want to extend their life style of power and wealth.

What passes for "Democracy" in Thailand is simply a sham.... a way to keep those in control in control as long as they can.

Thaksin and his Shin clan are wealthy Capitalist billionaires. The heads of the Democrat Party are wealthy Capitalist hi-so elites also.

Who you vote for in a meaningless "Democratic" election makes no difference, it's all for show because all the politicians have long ago been bought and paid for.

That is why "Democracy" in Thailand, is a meaningless and pointless farce.

Restore Democracy. Nonsense. There is no Democracy to be restored right now, and the hasn't been in Thailand for a long time.

Now there IS a economic divide in Thailand between those who have-not and don't have the opportunity to become haves, and the haves who are doing the best they can to manipulate the situation with "Democracy" and "Politics" to keep their power and prestige intact.

Maybe some time that will change. But it won't be changed by this nonsensical farce called "Democracy" in Thailand.

In fact the phony "Democracy" in Thailand now is exactly why Thailand is in this mess with another coup right now.

I agree with all you say IMA FARANG except you say there hasn't been democracy in Thailand for a long time. The reality is there has never been a proper functioning democracy in Thailand. Its all a bit of a joke with Foreign Ministers and Secretaries of State around the globe telling Thailand to return to democracy asap.

At no time since 1932 revolution has there ever been a period of stable democracy, only stable periods of Military Dictatorship the longest being Phibunsongkran, Thanom Kittikachorn, Sarit Thanarit & Prem Tinsulanond, the last two here had very close ties with the monarchy - Prem at 94 is still head of the Privy Council. Outside of those 4 I think Thaksin has lasted the longest of any Prime Minister. Thai politicians and political parties have almost always lacked a political ideology, power and riches always being the only goal. The way things look now we are still a generation away from a populace who are politically educated and care enough to force changes. Who would you vote for if your two choices are the Shin clan or the Democrats? Informal!

Just who's fault is it that the populace are still in the dark? Lese majeste laws and lack of press freedom don't allow honest and open debate. Maybe a period of colonisation might have left them with a better political system. You can only hope this is all a necessary learning curve for Thailand. Its going to continue to be more of the same for a bit longer yet.

[easybullet3]

How can you restore democracy when this country has never had it !!!! How can you restore what has never existed ? !!!!!

[wealth]

Basic forms Direct and semi-direct

A Landsgemeinde (in 2009) of the Canton of Glarus, an example of direct democracy in Switzerland.

In Switzerland, without needing to register, every citizen receives ballot papers and information brochures for each vote (and can send it back by post). Switzerland has a direct democracy system and votes are organised about four times a year.

Main article: Direct democracy

See also: Politics of Switzerland and Voting in Switzerland

Principles

Direct democracy is a political system where the citizens participate in the decision-making personally, contrary to relying on intermediaries or representatives. The supporters of direct democracy argue that democracy is more than merely a procedural issue. A direct democracy gives the voting population the power to:

1. Change constitutional laws,
2. Put forth initiatives, referendums and suggestions for laws,
3. Give binding orders to elective officials, such as revoking them before the end of their elected term, or initiating a lawsuit for breaking a campaign promise.

Examples

Direct democracy only exists in the Swiss cantons of Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus.^[72] The Swiss confederation is a semi-direct democracy (representative democracy with instruments of direct democracy).^[72]

Most western countries have representative systems.^[72]Switzerland is a rare example of a country with instruments of direct democracy (at the level of the towns, cantons and federal state). Citizens have more power than in a representative democracy. At the federal level, citizens can propose changes to the constitution (federal popular initiative) or ask for a referendum to be held on any law voted by the parliament.^[72] Between January 1995 and June 2005, Swiss citizens voted 31 times, to answer 103 questions (during the same period, French citizens participated in only two referendums).^[72]

[The Deerhunter]

Both sides are so entrenched in their views and aren't big on reason and compromise.

I see only one side now => JUNTA.

We cannot say that there are two sides in North Korea.

Only a JUNTA and a population.

If you wanr tp to see more than you currently take off the blinkers.

[Bkkbound]

Now that the shin clan and their sycophants are not in the game the act of rebuilding Thailands democracy can truly begin and i have absolute faith in the military and senior advisors to achieve that.. Its a pity the shin lovers let this drag out for so long.

[The Deerhunter]

Both sides are so entrenched in their views and aren't big on reason and compromise.

I see only one side now => JUNTA.

We cannot say that there are two sides in North Korea.

Only a JUNTA and a population.

If you wish to see any more than you currently see, please remove the blinkers. It is easy to be cynical and say "just like previous coups" but you have not seen enough to conclude that. Don't foget the dreadfully undemocratic state that the last democratically elected government got the counrty into. If the country got any worse than that, then the only people to notice it would be the Thai rouge losing their payday. It was pretty grim for the rest of the nation already and getting worse as the money ran out, to whever it was running. Let us look for a result that benefits all Thais. Start with the fact that very few bombs, grenades or driveby shootings are killing innocent children at the moment and work up from there. I would look on that as being a baseline marker of improvement. Let us be optimistic, not pessimistic (or negative, if you like.) No one likes coups but we had to get out of where we were and where we were heading. Two years from now you will be able to see where it is going, Not just one week after it starts. There is a lot of house cleaning to do to get rid of corruption at every level and in every institution. Re read the last sentence.

Edited May 26, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[LivinLOS]

Now that the shin clan and their sycophants are not in the game the act of rebuilding Thailands democracy can truly begin and i have absolute faith in the military and senior advisors to achieve that.. Its a pity the shin lovers let this drag out for so long.

Ahh yes its all done, over, finished, solved..

The Dems can now run unopposed, and there will be total harmony.

[The Deerhunter]

The Army's goal from the first was to catch incoming weapons to fuel Thaksin's private terrorists. Then to catch the terrorists.

Silly Knee Jerks get bent out of shape about "democracy" while the Bin Laden of Thailand, Thaksin, plans and executes his reign of terror and destruction of Thailand. Thai democracy will be waiting patiently to come back after this madman and his henchmen are controlled. Go get 'em, Army!

This is the most weird typing I think I have seen coming from the Nation. It reads like Thaksin is a cross between a Fairy Godfather and a patron saint. How could The Nation have missed Robert Amsterdam's speech to Reds a few days ago, reported in BKK Post, where he said the monarchy had to be disbanded. No reports of Reds objecting. Conclusion... Reds and Amsterdam work for Thaksin; both groups say same thing about monarchy, so Thaksin's intentions must be crystal clear by now.

How about them apples, Mr. Goody Two Shoes Nation "newspaper"????

Forgot to take your morning meds did ya old fella? (Comparing Bin Laden to Thaksin is a tad extreme in any sane person's mind, just sayin...)

Thaksin didn't start off that way but was/is heading down there real fast. Needs stopping as a real priority!!

[The Deerhunter]

The author of this article is likely aware that Prayuth had already stated at the outset that his goal is indeed to restore democracy through the enactment of reforms before the next election. Nonetheless, it might have been nice for that reference to have been actually included in this editorial. The editorial becomes more entertaining by the absence of it - naturally - but its inclusion would have lent it more balance. It should make sense that judgement be held in abeyance until after the process is completed, rather than at the outset. Already, Prayuth has received the unanimous praise from farmers from all around the country. Not bad for just three days into a coup. So perhaps the writer can wait a little longer and see how things actually pan out. He should be cheering Prayuth on, for if he does indeed accomplish what he has set out to do, the country and everyone in it will be far better served. Prayuth is aware - as this writer is aware - that corrupt abuses of the system overwhelmed it. He surely doesn't need reminding that having a man outside the country directing an administration was profoundly dysfunctional, or perhaps he's already forgotten. Therefore - reform is most definitely needed, and likely even this writer would concede that point. One sentence remains in this editorial, however, that is gratuitous, inflammatory, and completely without substantiation -

" Stakeholders are talking about political reform but reform should not mean changing the ground rules so that the Democrat Party could win an election. "

No they should not, and who says they will be ? Such a suggestion has never even once been brought forward at any reform forum that the PDRC or the Democratic party has ever been privy to. Ever. This is grist for the Pheu Thai/UDD narrative, of course, but it's so flimsy even Khaosod doesn't publish it.

That sentence was put in to play to one audience only, to try and not inflame the red apologist gallery. And it seems to have worked. At least one Red apologist has already given it the thumbs up!! 'Nuff said?.

[dominique355]

"Restoring Democracy".

That nonsense makes me sick.

The true fact is, as someone else said on another topic, there is no real Democracy to restore in Thailand.

Hasn't been any real democracy in Thailand for well over a decade.......perhaps longer.

The reason is because both of the main political parties are corrupt.

Years ago both of the main political parties sold their souls to their favorite group of dominant wealthy Capitalist oligarchs.

Those wealthy Capitalist oligarchies have simply purchased their group of "politicians" and are offering their set of "purchased politicians" as "Democracy" through political parties to the gullible Thai electorate.

Democracy in Thailand is a sham, the corrupt politicians and their "political parties" were long ago bought and sold by the wealthy high so Capitalist elite who merely want to extend their life style of power and wealth.

What passes for "Democracy" in Thailand is simply a sham.... a way to keep those in control in control as long as they can.

Thaksin and his Shin clan are wealthy Capitalist billionaires. The heads of the Democrat Party are wealthy Capitalist hi-so elites also.

Who you vote for in a meaningless "Democratic" election makes no difference, it's all for show because all the politicians have long ago been bought and paid for.

That is why "Democracy" in Thailand, is a meaningless and pointless farce.

Restore Democracy. Nonsense. There is no Democracy to be restored right now, and the hasn't been in Thailand for a long time.

Now there IS a economic divide in Thailand between those who have-not and don't have the opportunity to become haves, and the haves who are doing the best they can to manipulate the situation with "Democracy" and "Politics" to keep their power and prestige intact.

Maybe some time that will change. But it won't be changed by this nonsensical farce called "Democracy" in Thailand.

In fact the phony "Democracy" in Thailand now is exactly why Thailand is in this mess with another coup right now.

Can we at least have free media (TV, Radio, newspaper, Internet) restored or installed? After that, I don't care too much what these "elected" clowns are doing.

Clearly, Thailand cannot go on like that, with the constant threat of being court-martialled and disappear, when we speak up or check out information in the Internet.

[John1012]

How about restoring the RULE OF LAW. I keep reading comments on TV about democracy, people blathering on and on. Until the law is applied to equally to ALL members of Thai society, rich, poor, farmer or elite and Thailand has a decent uncorrupted method of administering these laws there will be no possibility of a democratic government. The losers will never accept the will of the majority and always try to bring the winners down because they know they will never be punished. Government needs to be more transparent and the media needs more freedom to report on administrative and legal malfeasance. Thailand will continue to go round in ever decreasing circles until it disappears up it's own fundamental orifice. There is of course the possibility of a similar occurrence to that of France in 1789, which would be extremely dangerous for us 'outsiders', as well as those who have a fear of the democracy of one man (sorry, adult person, forgot about PC) one vote, majority rules. I believe this event had a terminal effect on many opposed to equality.The French prior to this event had a society structure similar to that of Thailand, except for the reverence for the current monarch (which is probably all that is holding the flood back). Still, as they say, you reap what you sow.

[chotthee]

How about restoring the RULE OF LAW. I keep reading comments on TV about democracy, people blathering on and on. Until the law is applied to equally to ALL members of Thai society, rich, poor, farmer or elite and Thailand has a decent uncorrupted method of administering these laws there will be no possibility of a democratic government. The losers will never accept the will of the majority and always try to bring the winners down because they know they will never be punished. Government needs to be more transparent and the media needs more freedom to report on administrative and legal malfeasance. Thailand will continue to go round in ever decreasing circles until it disappears up it's own fundamental orifice. There is of course the possibility of a similar occurrence to that of France in 1789, which would be extremely dangerous for us 'outsiders', as well as those who have a fear of the democracy of one man (sorry, adult person, forgot about PC) one vote, majority rules. I believe this event had a terminal effect on many opposed to equality.The French prior to this event had a society structure similar to that of Thailand, except for the reverence for the current monarch (which is probably all that is holding the flood back). Still, as they say, you reap what you sow.

Please tell me which law is NOT applied to equally to ALL members of Thai society, rich, poor, farmer or elite?

The army is Thailand decent and uncorrupted method of administering these laws there will be no possibility of a democratic government.

[ABCer]

Why?

Just explain to me why "Restoring Democracy must be main focus of Coup Leaders"?

How many Coups did Thailand have in, say, last 100 years?

How many of these Coups were in the time of Democracy? How many times did this country have 'Democracy'?

Does this tell you anything?

Maybe, just maybe the so called 'Democracy' is not working here? Can such a sacrilegious thought enter one's mind?

Warning! Don't anybody call me a fascist or a nazi. I didn't graduate from Chulalongkorn Uni.

Edited May 26, 2014 by ABCer

[pedro01]

I reckon restoring safety should come before restoring democracy.

I get a bit sick of the incessant bleating from the media about how "freedom of the press" comes before anything else.

Well - guess what - when the press is publishing divisive sensationalist BS that just helps to make Thailand less peaceful - a bit of time in the cooler won't hurt them.

[transam]

The focus must be a change in thought of previous folk creaming off or receiving cash for their own use. Take a look in how folk made a lot of money and where it came from.

Thai folk KNOW how the system works and it must change.....

[chotthee]

I reckon restoring safety should come before restoring democracy.

I get a bit sick of the incessant bleating from the media about how "freedom of the press" comes before anything else.

Well - guess what - when the press is publishing divisive sensationalist BS that just helps to make Thailand less peaceful - a bit of time in the cooler won't hurt them.

Coup to restore democracy.

That's how I teach Thai kids the meaning of the word IRONY.

[Thai at Heart]

A. Remove Shinawatras from politics

B. Remove Shinawatras parties and prevent from ever taking power again

C. Remove possibility of single party majority ever again

D. Remove possibility of socially biased policies from being implemented ever again

E. Remove possibility for the lower house to modify constitution ever again

F. Tell Thailand if they don't vote for what they are offered they will never get another chance to vote.

G. Panic when Thaksin cousin 4th removed enters politics and claims that the coup has smashed democracy

H. Bribe any coalition partners to join democrats in a coalition.

I. Give the PMship to Abhisit and tell him if he loses this time he will be deported.

J. Change law so that only people with 100k baht in the bank can vote.

K. Panic when money transfers to the billions start hitting bank accounts nationwide.

L. Wonder how this all happened and what you did wrong?

[ABCer]

I reckon restoring safety should come before restoring democracy.

I get a bit sick of the incessant bleating from the media about how "freedom of the press" comes before anything else.

Well - guess what - when the press is publishing divisive sensationalist BS that just helps to make Thailand less peaceful - a bit of time in the cooler won't hurt them.

Coup to restore democracy.

That's how I teach Thai kids the meaning of the word IRONY.

I am glad to hear you are teaching Thai kids 'irony'.

Don't you see irony in the fact that 'Democracy' (I mean Thai style Democracy) needs about 20 Coups evenly spaced in time to save the country from this phenomenon?

Every time there was a Coup the Army gave power back to Politicians. Thank God these Coups are bloodless.

You take a Petri dish and put in it samples of this society. Than you grow culture. And every time you observe that what has grown is anything but Democracy. Year after year after year...

Obvious even to a child - if it only grows shit - you must have it in society...

But surely, I must be a Nazi to say this, eh?

[uptheos]

How can you restore democracy, in a country where the government (the people) are answerable to the military?

[h90]

I read only half, couldn't bear to read more.

Main focus must be peace, no violence and development/repairing all big problems.

Democracy is a secondary thing. If you got bombed by a M79 grenade and die you don't care if you died democratically

[MaxLee]

I read only half, couldn't bear to read more.

Main focus must be peace, no violence and development/repairing all big problems.

Democracy is a secondary thing. If you got bombed by a M79 grenade and die you don't care if you died democratically

I have to chuckle on that last sentence. Or in other words you meant to say autocracy...???

[casualbiker]

Basic forms Direct and semi-direct

A Landsgemeinde (in 2009) of the Canton of Glarus, an example of direct democracy in Switzerland.

In Switzerland, without needing to register, every citizen receives ballot papers and information brochures for each vote (and can send it back by post). Switzerland has a direct democracy system and votes are organised about four times a year.

Main article: Direct democracy

See also: Politics of Switzerland and Voting in Switzerland Principles

Direct democracy is a political system where the citizens participate in the decision-making personally, contrary to relying on intermediaries or representatives. The supporters of direct democracy argue that democracy is more than merely a procedural issue. A direct democracy gives the voting population the power to:

• Change constitutional laws,
• Put forth initiatives, referendums and suggestions for laws,
• Give binding orders to elective officials, such as revoking them before the end of their elected term, or initiating a lawsuit for breaking a campaign promise.

Examples

Direct democracy only exists in the Swiss cantons of Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus.^[72] The Swiss confederation is a semi-direct democracy (representative democracy with instruments of direct democracy).^[72]

Most western countries have representative systems.^[72]Switzerland is a rare example of a country with instruments of direct democracy (at the level of the towns, cantons and federal state). Citizens have more power than in a representative democracy. At the federal level, citizens can propose changes to the constitution (federal popular initiative) or ask for a referendum to be held on any law voted by the parliament.^[72] Between January 1995 and June 2005, Swiss citizens voted 31 times, to answer 103 questions (during the same period, French citizens participated in only two referendums).^[72]

Are you suggesting direct democracy for Thailand?

If so. I have a question do they have rallies in Switzerland were people rattle clapper hands or blow whistles at the slightest provocation?

If yes.. then excellent idea. If No then crap idea!

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