US envoy Kenney criticised

[wandasloan]

Andrew MacGregor Marshall attributes the original letter to Sirilaksana Khoman, an NACC advisor, who is conflated with Thanat Khoman, a former Foreign Minister in "US backed military dictatorships of the 1950's and 1960's," who was also a former Chairman of the Democratic Party.

Ah, an explanation at last.

Dr Thanat (the old man) was a testy old man but a superbly intelligent one, who helped guide Thailand through the Vietnam war days, mostly for the Thanom dictatorship until the 1971 "coup against himself". Thanat Khoman was a nationalist, tetchy about it, but never anti-American. This lady of the letter is married to Thiravudh Woody Khoman, a son of Thanat. Old-timers might remember Woody ran Thailand's first BBS in the very early 1980s and was an outstanding geek and early technology writer for the Bangkok Post's Post Database section. His brother is a professional anti-American.

The Khoman family originated from Chinese-Malays. They have a huge family spread around the region, but still centered in Malaysia. Sirilaksana, formerly just Siri, is the daughter of (can't remember first name) Chutikul, another career foreign ministry guy, who was ambassador to several countries. Dr Thanat is by far the best know of them all, and a major achiever, to say the least.

.

[GeorgeO]

3.5 million is a drop in the military ocean. In soccer it wouldn't even buy a decent goalkeeper.

...it would represent about 10% of the campaign costs for a presidential candidate in the US, which makes the US response all the more disgraceful...!!

[northernjohn]

Short version: Thaksin is our New World Order buddy.....

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/052414_statements_2.html

The following is attributable to U.S. Department of State Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf: May 24, 2014

We are increasingly concerned about actions the military has taken, just a few days after it staged a coup. It has dissolved the Senate, detained a number of people, called in some academics and journalists, and continued to restrict the press. We again call on the military to release those detained for political reasons, end restrictions on the media, and move to restore civilian rule and democracy through elections.

I think it is just a speech they wheel out for any country they never bother to see what the facts are. They don't give a rats ass if Thailand goes down the drain just as long as they do it the way the U S wants them to go.

Remember when Palestine got Democracy and they refused to recognize it. But they call Thaksin's dictatorship Democracy. Or remember when Al Gore won the presidency with the most votes but that was Democracy and they did not want him so they got the Supreme court to name Bush junior as president. That is what Democracy is all about to them.

[GeorgeO]

Bravo, NJ, couldn't have put it better myself...!!

Like you, I do not want to wade into what the ambassador has or hasn't said or done or any of that. However, as an American who has spent six years living in Europe and several more living in Asia, it seems to be a habit of many Americans who find themselves overseas to try to fit in by adopting an anti-American attitude.

I think michaelscottfan may have worded it a little too star spangled bannery for my own beliefs but I loathe hearing Americans blindly repeating Euro-criticisms of their fellow Americans because they don't have the guts to stick up for themselves (or they're so weak-spined they crave acceptance) as much as I loathe idiots chanting U-S-A, U-S-A.

Now, with a situation like what has happened in Thailand, I'm divided. On one hand, I've been saying for many years that Thailand was on a coarse for civil war or disappearing into a failed state status. So, I'm somewhat pleased to see the actions of the military. If they are doing what I think they're doing, this reset could be the best thing that has every happened to Thailand in recent memory.

On the other hand, it's troubling that it's taken a circumvention of democracy to make it happen and there's no real guarantee the military is actually going to improve anything. Anybody who is surprised that any western democracy is going to publicly decry the circumvention of democracy is just a little more than naive. It's like saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. It's a standard response and the threat of harming trade relations is supposed to act as an incentive to not hold onto power for any longer than is necessary to fix the problem. If the world simply shrugged, what incentive does the military ever have to turn power back over to the people (other than internal pressures they can't control via a few mass executions)?

Furthermore, it's pretty obvious that the US (as well as most of the world) has had no problem working with either Thaksin or the Democrats so nobody is picking sides in this. In fact, I find the Thai arguments against the US right now as silly as I found Thaksin's infamous "The UN is not our father" rhetoric. As a nation heavily dependent on exports, US or UN sanctions would set Thailand back 20 years. Saying it is none of anyone's business and that we should shut up is simply nationalistic masterbation. And Thais who go looney on Facebook or Twitter defending this ignorant view of how their own economy, or even how the rest of the world, works are living in propaganda filled la-la land.

While I am neither for or against the actions of the ambassador since none of us can separate what she has actually said or done from the fabrications used to denigrate her and none of us know what she is doing or saying on her own initiative or based on directions she is receiving ...

... but this has got to be one of the most pompous, meaningless statements I've heard since the last presidential campaign:

"...many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them."

Please enumerate these "principles" that you hold so dear and which so many of us have abandoned willy-nilly. We could use a good laugh. If anything, America was founded with respect for diversity of opinion and not the imposition of some principles from on-high ... speaking of military dictatorships.

I enjoyed you r open minded approach to the situation.

I really7 liked

"Now, with a situation like what has happened in Thailand, I'm divided. On one hand, I've been saying for many years that Thailand was on a coarse for civil war or disappearing into a failed state status. So, I'm somewhat pleased to see the actions of the military. If they are doing what I think they're doing, this reset could be the best thing that has every happened to Thailand in recent memory.

On the other hand, it's troubling that it's taken a circumvention of democracy to make it happen and there's no real guarantee the military is actually going to improve anything."

Particularly

"I'm somewhat pleased to see the actions of the military. If they are doing what I think they're doing, this reset could be the best thing that has every happened to Thailand in recent memory."

Yes it is not a sure fire thing but I get the feeling from his no nonsense approach that it will be a great thing. He put the combatants in a room by them selves after giving them a day to think it out and they did nothing so he just put an end to it right now no excuse no time. They were told what to do and given time. He had to do it himself.

I also liked the way he handled the reporters when they tried to treat him like a politician he just put them in their place. I feel deep in me that when the time is ready the man will arrive and when the man is ready the time will arrive. That is what has happened here today.

Not Democracy but the best government Thailand can have at this time in history. I firmly believe that when he has straighten out things he will call an election and not many of the present day politicians will be able to run for office. If in office they try to revert to the old ways they will be swiftly removed from office. None of this moving to a useless post crap . Out on their ear or if need be in jail.

I see some immediate hard ships but some long term gains.

Hopefully I am rite in my decision. I just think of what we had and it is easy to see the possibilities in the man. It couldn't get much worse with people committing suicide over the failed promises and no offer of help to them.

Bravo, NJ, couldn't have put it better myself...!! ... and I really wish the US would get a handle on what's really going on over here ... as opposed to trying to maintain their business interests with the fugitive criminal...!!

[northernjohn]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Whats wrong with you? You more than anybody can see the Armies actions were not done to end democracy. It was done to end the political hatred and corruption that had taken hold in the 2 major parties and to quell a blood bath. YOU know darn well if political parties started to defy laws and entice terrorism in the US that they would have an Army of feds with shoot to kill orders be they pro or anti Gov. The US is not above what is happening here. They are just more devious in how they resolve it. Thailand needed this reset or would you prefer a civil war like the US had. Thai democracy is still young and learning how it works. But any idiot can see it was NOT working and the parties had twisted everything to benefit themselves.

I think as long as the Army is making progress to end the madness of Thak and Suthep and that they do all they can to restor democracy then they are doing a good job and should not be condemned. They are trying to save the country from its own self destruction which was getting closer and closer every day.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well I hope you are right, but after 12 resets (aka coups) and 9 attempted resets it would appear that military intervention hasn't yet managed to resolve the issues and aid LOS down the democratic pathway since the military assumed power in 1932.

Is the military equipped and capable of achieving this role?

Around the world military interventions and military dictatorships rarely fulfill their promise of restoring a country's political, social and economic fortunes.

Perhaps the situation in LOS was so dire that the military intervention was the least bad option....

That might be the case, but here the military (at least the hierarchy) is hardly neutral in its political stance and having had a preeminent position since 1932 has established significant vested interests both politically and commercially. Hence most of the "resets" need to be seen at least in part as in defence of these interests rather than purely being for the good of every Thai citizen.

This time round, if the speculation is only partially correct, could mark the most significant reset since 1932 and Prayuth met yet earn the same nickname as England's 16th Earl of Warwick.....It would also dramatically underline the role of the military in the body politic of this country.

You forgot to mention that when they let it go to what people laughingly call Democracy it fell flat on it's face. Look here at the present situation. The PTP controlled the house and still fell flat on their face. The Army once again steps in picks them up and dusts them off so they can go out and fall flat on their face again.

The difference being that this time in my opinion when they turn it back over to the citizens to vote on a leader they will have cleaned the sh*t out and their will be a better grade of politician running for office. They learned from the last experience that a coup has to clean all the turds out or they will just turn it back into a toilet again.

[bigdickmary]

let's not forget what the US is asking.

1. elelctions

2. freedom of the press

3. freedome of movenment (not detaining politicians)

Sounds reasonable to me.

[sdanielmcev]

Don't know if anyone's said this, yet, but an American ambassador has little say on whether monies are distributed. They are a mouthpiece for whatever current administration is in office.

[GeorgeO]

Right now, most Thai people are angry at us.

That is straight out of the Fox News school of reporting. Completely unproven, unproveable opinion.

There are growing numbers of posts on (non-TV) forums which suggest that the Thai public is growing increasingly dismayed at the lack of understanding within the US of the real reasons behind the current situation in Thailand...!!

[tonbridgebrit]

Thats one way of seeing it. The other way would be simply follow the law and give support to the civilian government even if you dont agree with their political stance because they were chosen by the people to run the country. Those anti-gov protests would have been considered illegal in any normal democracy why were they allowed?

Why were the elections not given the security needed by the same army that now shuts down the entire country?

Why was Yingluck dismissed for transferring a hostile official but now the very forces that judged her are dismissing every official in the government and transferring many others.

This is not an experiment in democracy it is a huge step backwards and should be condemned.

The violence has been suppressed for the time being but later it will return with a vengeance.

How long can you stop a volcano?

Actually, with the open vote buying, they would not have been legitimate elections in any other country. Literally, the newspaper posts the going rate for votes.

You lose all credibility calling what Thailand has/had a democracy. It was a democracy in name only.

The reality is that it's one set of rich guys fighting against another set of rich guys but one of the groups of rich guys promises to steal the other rich guys' money and give it to the voters (after taking a good cut to enrich themselves in the transfer).

This is the reason why it's a power struggle. It has nothing to do with democracy. It's all about power. The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened.

digibum, let's say you're right, and indeed, you might be.

Okay, a Thai man, his income is about 20,000 baht a month or less, he does actually represent more than half the population. He goes to live and work in Bangkok, and notices the number of flash cars in Bangkok. He knows these cars cost three million baht or more, hence, he sees the 'inequality' in Bangkok and Thailand.

Now then, who's he going to vote for ?

Surely, he's going to vote for 'rich guys who are going to steal money from other rich guys, and give it to the voters (after taking a cut to enrich themselves)' ??

Why would he vote in some guys who are NOT going to steal the other rich guys money, and not give it to the voters ??

"The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened."

Is it that surprising, bearing in mind the wealth gap in Thailand, that the reds keep on getting more votes than the yellows during elections ?

[GeorgeO]

let's not forget what the US is asking.

1. elelctions

2. freedom of the press

3. freedome of movenment (not detaining politicians)

Sounds reasonable to me.

... and all without reforms ... so they just want to see the same thing happening four or five years down the line...?! The US should worry about getting it's own house in order, and leave the problems of Thailand to Thai people...!!

[lockman]

One thing many fail to know is that this is foreign aid. This can ONLY be sent to those who have a functioning government. As there now is NOT a government American Law prevents the aid. The envoy has nothing to do with that.

[binjalin]

"our natural allies for decades since WWII" hmmm what about the Japanese? Thailand was for the 'bad guys' right?

[englishoak]

Michael Yon is supposed to be credible and a serious reporter ?

Ok now thats funny

Give me a break

[baboon]

"our natural allies for decades since WWII" hmmm what about the Japanese? Thailand was for the 'bad guys' right?

'Since' WWII..

[Kooweerup]

Has anyone seen this guy's blogs and Facebook Page? He is 159 percent pro PDRC. As a so called reporter he is so biased and blinded it is not funny. He makes that Germany guy I opposed look like an ameture

[tonbridgebrit]

Michael Yon is supposed to be credible and a serious reporter ?

Ok now thats funny

Give me a break

Yes, I feel the same way !

People should actually go to Micheal Yon's facebook page, and see for themselves the stuff that's on there.

He massively supported Suthep before the coup took place. His fans and supporters (some of them are Thai) leave messages on Mr Yon's facebook wall, and some of these people reveal how ridiculous and silly they are !

At one time, Micheal himself was trying to say "can we please stop comparing Thaksin with Hitler". He was conscious of the fact, that constant comments about comparing Thaksin to Hitler was damaging the anti-Thaksinites, it was making them look pretty silly. But oh no, what happens ? A load of Thais who were supporting Suthep constantly made comments about how Thaksin was the same as or worse than Hitler !

Facebook isn't the same as Thai Visa. Here, a person can easily be a troll or a comedian. On facebook, it's slightly more difficult and bothersome to create an account and go trolling. Anyway, the Thais who make absurd comments on Micheal Yon's facebook page, if you click on their profile photo, well, sometimes, you can see a lot of their stuff. These are real people, using their real accounts, expressing their real views on Mr Yon's facebook page.

You sometimes don't know whether to laugh or cry !

[newcomer71]

Congratulation to "The Nation". They gave credibility to Michael Yon, that is equivalent to give credit to Bernie Madoff,

I sometimes happen to read his blog with his rants against US, Us Forces, defamation of everyone who thinks differently from him, plus invented stories just to inflame rage in his group of rabid extremist supporters... It would be hilarious and enjoyable somehow, if the momentum for Thailand wasn't so critical and on the brink of a civil war.

Edit. Typo

Edited May 25, 2014 by newcomer71

[firestar]

The same Michael Yon who wrote the BBC and CNN had been bought by Thaksin.

Why does The Nation or TV even give him the time of day?

[h90]

let's not forget what the US is asking.

1. elelctions

2. freedom of the press

3. freedome of movenment (not detaining politicians)

Sounds reasonable to me.

you forget that before people got shot, huge amounts of war weapons were coming into Thailand

You can enjoy your 1,2,3 only when you are alive

[surangw]

how much of the 3.5m is left after all the "cuts" are taken out ?

with all the support the thai army is still using 1960 vintage U.S. issued pack set radios

[northernjohn]

Thats one way of seeing it. The other way would be simply follow the law and give support to the civilian government even if you dont agree with their political stance because they were chosen by the people to run the country. Those anti-gov protests would have been considered illegal in any normal democracy why were they allowed?

Why were the elections not given the security needed by the same army that now shuts down the entire country?

Why was Yingluck dismissed for transferring a hostile official but now the very forces that judged her are dismissing every official in the government and transferring many others.

This is not an experiment in democracy it is a huge step backwards and should be condemned.

The violence has been suppressed for the time being but later it will return with a vengeance.

How long can you stop a volcano?

Actually, with the open vote buying, they would not have been legitimate elections in any other country. Literally, the newspaper posts the going rate for votes.

You lose all credibility calling what Thailand has/had a democracy. It was a democracy in name only.

The reality is that it's one set of rich guys fighting against another set of rich guys but one of the groups of rich guys promises to steal the other rich guys' money and give it to the voters (after taking a good cut to enrich themselves in the transfer).

This is the reason why it's a power struggle. It has nothing to do with democracy. It's all about power. The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened.

digibum, let's say you're right, and indeed, you might be.

Okay, a Thai man, his income is about 20,000 baht a month or less, he does actually represent more than half the population. He goes to live and work in Bangkok, and notices the number of flash cars in Bangkok. He knows these cars cost three million baht or more, hence, he sees the 'inequality' in Bangkok and Thailand.

Now then, who's he going to vote for ?

Surely, he's going to vote for 'rich guys who are going to steal money from other rich guys, and give it to the voters (after taking a cut to enrich themselves)' ??

Why would he vote in some guys who are NOT going to steal the other rich guys money, and not give it to the voters ??

"The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened."

Is it that surprising, bearing in mind the wealth gap in Thailand, that the reds keep on getting more votes than the yellows during elections ?

income 20,000 or less. Hell there are families making less than that. Also where are all these 3 million baht cars. I don't see them in Chiang Mai. More like 40,000 baht motor bikes. Where are the reds getting all this money you claim they are redistributing to the poor.

What did you think of the poor deluded poster who talked about supporting the legally elected government. He forgot to add that it was stealing all the money out of the treasury illegally. But he wants every one to support them. Typical Thai education product.

[northernjohn]

how much of the 3.5m is left after all the "cuts" are taken out ?

with all the support the thai army is still using 1960 vintage U.S. issued pack set radios

They act like they are doing Thailand a big favor. Now they won't let Thailand into their silly little war game. That ought to save Thailand 3 and 1/2 million baht right there.

The goofy states is still giving 17 million to the IRA

[baboon]

how much of the 3.5m is left after all the "cuts" are taken out ?

with all the support the thai army is still using 1960 vintage U.S. issued pack set radios

They act like they are doing Thailand a big favor. Now they won't let Thailand into their silly little war game. That ought to save Thailand 3 and 1/2 million baht right there.

The goofy states is still giving 17 million to the IRA

I would imagine the US foots the bill for these exercises?

[digibum]

Thats one way of seeing it. The other way would be simply follow the law and give support to the civilian government even if you dont agree with their political stance because they were chosen by the people to run the country. Those anti-gov protests would have been considered illegal in any normal democracy why were they allowed?

Why were the elections not given the security needed by the same army that now shuts down the entire country?

Why was Yingluck dismissed for transferring a hostile official but now the very forces that judged her are dismissing every official in the government and transferring many others.

This is not an experiment in democracy it is a huge step backwards and should be condemned.

The violence has been suppressed for the time being but later it will return with a vengeance.

How long can you stop a volcano?

Actually, with the open vote buying, they would not have been legitimate elections in any other country. Literally, the newspaper posts the going rate for votes.

You lose all credibility calling what Thailand has/had a democracy. It was a democracy in name only.

The reality is that it's one set of rich guys fighting against another set of rich guys but one of the groups of rich guys promises to steal the other rich guys' money and give it to the voters (after taking a good cut to enrich themselves in the transfer).

This is the reason why it's a power struggle. It has nothing to do with democracy. It's all about power. The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened.

digibum, let's say you're right, and indeed, you might be.

Okay, a Thai man, his income is about 20,000 baht a month or less, he does actually represent more than half the population. He goes to live and work in Bangkok, and notices the number of flash cars in Bangkok. He knows these cars cost three million baht or more, hence, he sees the 'inequality' in Bangkok and Thailand.

Now then, who's he going to vote for ?

Surely, he's going to vote for 'rich guys who are going to steal money from other rich guys, and give it to the voters (after taking a cut to enrich themselves)' ??

Why would he vote in some guys who are NOT going to steal the other rich guys money, and not give it to the voters ??

"The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened."

Is it that surprising, bearing in mind the wealth gap in Thailand, that the reds keep on getting more votes than the yellows during elections ?

Because he should be voting for the rich guy who is fighting to pull everyone up to his level. Unfortunately, there are no Thai candidates who actually fit that definition.

I guess I could have been more clear and said that both sides have a vested interest in keeping Thais poor, uneducated, and easy to manipulate. One side thinks it's their god given right to be in charge and have worked very hard to structure Thai society in a way that keeps the poor poor. The other side saw the potential for sewing the seeds of discontent and has used populist policies to spread around a few table scraps while they feast on Thailand's wealth.

But neither side is actually interested in bettering the lives of Thai people. The yellows don't want their decades hold on power challenged by real democracy. The reds don't want an informed and intelligent voting base.

I know that in politics, it's difficult to be cynical. Politicians eventually sell themselves out to the point where it's hard to tell what they stand for anymore. But I think many of the people who get into politics outside of Thailand were once idealistic. Many got involved in politics because they saw something they didn't like on the local level and decided they could do it better. Look at someone like Obama who started out as a community organizer. Or look at Bob Dole who was a crippled WWII vet who came from a dirt farm in Kansas and eventually made several runs as the Republican nominee for president. These guys started out as idealists.

But very few politicians in Thailand fit the above definition.

[beautifulthailand99]

Michael Yon is supposed to be credible and a serious reporter ?

Ok now thats funny

Give me a break

Yes, I feel the same way !

People should actually go to Micheal Yon's facebook page, and see for themselves the stuff that's on there.

He massively supported Suthep before the coup took place. His fans and supporters (some of them are Thai) leave messages on Mr Yon's facebook wall, and some of these people reveal how ridiculous and silly they are !

At one time, Micheal himself was trying to say "can we please stop comparing Thaksin with Hitler". He was conscious of the fact, that constant comments about comparing Thaksin to Hitler was damaging the anti-Thaksinites, it was making them look pretty silly. But oh no, what happens ? A load of Thais who were supporting Suthep constantly made comments about how Thaksin was the same as or worse than Hitler !

Facebook isn't the same as Thai Visa. Here, a person can easily be a troll or a comedian. On facebook, it's slightly more difficult and bothersome to create an account and go trolling. Anyway, the Thais who make absurd comments on Micheal Yon's facebook page, if you click on their profile photo, well, sometimes, you can see a lot of their stuff. These are real people, using their real accounts, expressing their real views on Mr Yon's facebook page.

You sometimes don't know whether to laugh or cry !

Yes - outside of the Kingdom it's a game of Facebook ping pong with Michael Yon and AMM for the two opposing sides fronted by Falangs (don't visit AMM if in LOS)

[tonbridgebrit]

Thats one way of seeing it. The other way would be simply follow the law and give support to the civilian government even if you dont agree with their political stance because they were chosen by the people to run the country. Those anti-gov protests would have been considered illegal in any normal democracy why were they allowed?

Why were the elections not given the security needed by the same army that now shuts down the entire country?

Why was Yingluck dismissed for transferring a hostile official but now the very forces that judged her are dismissing every official in the government and transferring many others.

This is not an experiment in democracy it is a huge step backwards and should be condemned.

The violence has been suppressed for the time being but later it will return with a vengeance.

How long can you stop a volcano?

Actually, with the open vote buying, they would not have been legitimate elections in any other country. Literally, the newspaper posts the going rate for votes.

You lose all credibility calling what Thailand has/had a democracy. It was a democracy in name only.

The reality is that it's one set of rich guys fighting against another set of rich guys but one of the groups of rich guys promises to steal the other rich guys' money and give it to the voters (after taking a good cut to enrich themselves in the transfer).

This is the reason why it's a power struggle. It has nothing to do with democracy. It's all about power. The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened.

digibum, let's say you're right, and indeed, you might be.

Okay, a Thai man, his income is about 20,000 baht a month or less, he does actually represent more than half the population. He goes to live and work in Bangkok, and notices the number of flash cars in Bangkok. He knows these cars cost three million baht or more, hence, he sees the 'inequality' in Bangkok and Thailand.

Now then, who's he going to vote for ?

Surely, he's going to vote for 'rich guys who are going to steal money from other rich guys, and give it to the voters (after taking a cut to enrich themselves)' ??

Why would he vote in some guys who are NOT going to steal the other rich guys money, and not give it to the voters ??

"The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened."

Is it that surprising, bearing in mind the wealth gap in Thailand, that the reds keep on getting more votes than the yellows during elections ?

income 20,000 or less. Hell there are families making less than that. Also where are all these 3 million baht cars. I don't see them in Chiang Mai. More like 40,000 baht motor bikes. Where are the reds getting all this money you claim they are redistributing to the poor.

What did you think of the poor deluded poster who talked about supporting the legally elected government. He forgot to add that it was stealing all the money out of the treasury illegally. But he wants every one to support them. Typical Thai education product.

Hello Northernjohn.

Right, so you reckon there's families who are on less than 20,000 baht per month ? Okay, I don't have a problem believing that.

So Chang Mai is full of 40,000 baht motorbikes ? I was actually talking about the Thai man who goes to work in Bangkok. Surely, we've all seen the up-market Mercs and up-market Japanese cars in Bangkok, and outside of Bangkok. We have to bear in mind, that a car costing 50,000 pounds in England will set you back far more in Thailand (when you bear in mind the exchange rate). Anyway, I was only trying to point out the wealth gap in Thailand.

And where are the reds going to get the money to re-distribute to the poor ? Well, I was only commenting on digibum's comment. He said 'by stealing it from other rich people' ! I think he meant tax.

And the poor deluded poster that talked about supporting the legally elected government. Let's say you're right, the government was stealing SOME of the money out of the Treasury. Digibum himself said 'taking a cut to enrich themselves before giving it to the voters' !

Actually, northernjohn, do you reckon that the Thais who are poor, do you reckon that they are better off due to the Thaksin Party's 'populist policies' during the last decade ? Actually, thirteen years. Or do you reckon that they're not better off, it's just that they vote Thaksin because they're under the impression that they're better off ?

[digibum]

Thats one way of seeing it. The other way would be simply follow the law and give support to the civilian government even if you dont agree with their political stance because they were chosen by the people to run the country. Those anti-gov protests would have been considered illegal in any normal democracy why were they allowed?

Why were the elections not given the security needed by the same army that now shuts down the entire country?

Why was Yingluck dismissed for transferring a hostile official but now the very forces that judged her are dismissing every official in the government and transferring many others.

This is not an experiment in democracy it is a huge step backwards and should be condemned.

The violence has been suppressed for the time being but later it will return with a vengeance.

How long can you stop a volcano?

Actually, with the open vote buying, they would not have been legitimate elections in any other country. Literally, the newspaper posts the going rate for votes.

You lose all credibility calling what Thailand has/had a democracy. It was a democracy in name only.

The reality is that it's one set of rich guys fighting against another set of rich guys but one of the groups of rich guys promises to steal the other rich guys' money and give it to the voters (after taking a good cut to enrich themselves in the transfer).

This is the reason why it's a power struggle. It has nothing to do with democracy. It's all about power. The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened.

digibum, let's say you're right, and indeed, you might be.

Okay, a Thai man, his income is about 20,000 baht a month or less, he does actually represent more than half the population. He goes to live and work in Bangkok, and notices the number of flash cars in Bangkok. He knows these cars cost three million baht or more, hence, he sees the 'inequality' in Bangkok and Thailand.

Now then, who's he going to vote for ?

Surely, he's going to vote for 'rich guys who are going to steal money from other rich guys, and give it to the voters (after taking a cut to enrich themselves)' ??

Why would he vote in some guys who are NOT going to steal the other rich guys money, and not give it to the voters ??

"The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened."

Is it that surprising, bearing in mind the wealth gap in Thailand, that the reds keep on getting more votes than the yellows during elections ?

I could probably add to my comments on my last response . . .

A guy making 20,000 a month should not be thinking about buying a flash car. This guy is thinking that all he wants is the opportunity to put rice on the table, get his kids a decent education, and give his family a better life. And if he does that, his kids will do the same but because they got a decent education, instead of making 20,000 baht a month they make 30,000 baht a month and can afford a better education for their kids. Wash, rinse, and repeat until you've got a thriving middle class of well educated people.

I think many of the negative aspects of Thai society arise out of the fact that the guy making 20,000 a month knows that he can't get to the flash cars based on hard work. The only way for him to go from 20,000 baht a month to flash cars is stealing his way there.

Upward mobility in Thailand is horrible. This is what is causing a lot of the discontent. As soon as someone starts doing well, the hands start coming out demanding a little piece. It is very difficult to become successful through hard, honest work in Thailand.

[digibum]

let's not forget what the US is asking.

1. elelctions

2. freedom of the press

3. freedome of movenment (not detaining politicians)

Sounds reasonable to me.

... and all without reforms ... so they just want to see the same thing happening four or five years down the line...?! The US should worry about getting it's own house in order, and leave the problems of Thailand to Thai people...!!

I love the irony in people who out of one side of their mouth curse the US for voicing an opinion and again curse them for cutting off money or aide packages. Giving someone money buys you the right to say something. If Thailand wants the US to shut it's mouth, refuse any further aide money. Very simple.

[tonbridgebrit]

This picture has appeared on whatever facebook page. Yes, I think some Thais are angry about comments made by the US government.

Yes, some people need to tell some of the Thais that boycotting American goods is silly, it certainly isn't the way forward.
Actually, do some people feel it might be a good thing if Thais start to boycott American goods ? Or do some people feel that it's not important whether Thais do or do not boycott American goods ?

[srsv1238]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Whats wrong with you? You more than anybody can see the Armies actions were not done to end democracy. It was done to end the political hatred and corruption that had taken hold in the 2 major parties and to quell a blood bath. YOU know darn well if political parties started to defy laws and entice terrorism in the US that they would have an Army of feds with shoot to kill orders be they pro or anti Gov. The US is not above what is happening here. They are just more devious in how they resolve it. Thailand needed this reset or would you prefer a civil war like the US had. Thai democracy is still young and learning how it works. But any idiot can see it was NOT working and the parties had twisted everything to benefit themselves.

I think as long as the Army is making progress to end the madness of Thak and Suthep and that they do all they can to restor democracy then they are doing a good job and should not be condemned. They are trying to save the country from its kown self destruction which was getting closer and closer every day.

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So if these coups were so wonderful, why didn't they work the previous 11 times? Because they lack political legitimacy. Sadly this coup has again sullied the reputation of the military and makes civil war more likely than less. Had the general limited himself to martial law and protecting the Democratic process than that would have been fine. But they were not interested in doing that. They also wanted to shape the outcome. Something they have no right to do.

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