US envoy Kenney criticised

[newcomer71]

"No noteworthy protests today, to my knowledge. Reds running out of grass?" - Micheael Yon Fan's Page on 1st June 2014

Just an example (but his page is full of examples of his priceless knowledge) of how deep it goes Michael Yon deep and authoritative analysis on the current situation in Thailand.

[JohnnyJazz]

Foreigners, including foreign journalists, were specifically asked not to take part in the current trouble and avoid inflammatory comments or face deportation. Mr Yon comments are definitively one-sided and willingly inflammatory but it seems he can roam Bangkok streets and post his comments on Facebook in total impunity. How is that possible ?

[binjalin]

I have not read this whole thread but I'm going to say this -

I find it very disturbing the fact that representatives of the USA keep releasing these rather ill-informed inaccurate statements (another one today), it is neither helpful nor productive, they should either get their facts in order or say nothing at all.

The so called Democracy wasn't working here and has rightly been suspended with the support of over 75% of the Thai people, as far as I can see the Junta is doing a better job at running the country than any past government has.

Thailand is on a path to an election - let it run it's course USA and either support it or be silent

Where do you pluck 75% from?

#235 still waiting...

as elections are banned for the next year and half and DJJAMIE's 15 Principals of Democracy have morphed into the 15 Regulations of Coup's we will not know how many Thais support this and, more importantly, nor do they care

hopefully it will turn out ok eventually as this surge of Paradigm Shift continues for at least another 10 to 20 years

[Scott]

This thread has gone quite far off-topic. Numerous inflammatory and baiting posts and replies have been deleted. Please be civil to one another and stick to the topic.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

[Publicus]

The same same criticisms of Amb Kenney show the intertwining of far right wing anti-Obama political views held by some U.S. expats and by some other expats all of whom happen to have the common views that military dictatorship is a good thing and that elections they don't like are bad things that must be prevented by any and all means.

I can say from personal experience that, while some veterans of U.S. military service are politically far right, most U.S. military veterans are in the political center while others are on the U.S. political left (which is quite different from the European political left).

The standard propaganda line of the anti-democracy, anti-Kenney forces in Thailand, whether they be indigenous or expat, is that the people who favor democracy and elections don't know the real situation and realities of Thailand. The anti-democracy forces assert that only they really and truly know the realities of Thailand, that the rest of us are ill informed dupes, saps, schmucks.

This is not a viable line of argument. The governments and civil society groups of the richest, the best educated and the most successful countries of the world know much more about Thailand than do a bunch of regularly inebriated two-fisted expat NCO military veterans.

In short, if you like military dictatorship, you seem always to find stupidity and misinformation in foreign embassies and in foreign capitals where the strongest opposition to it is consistently found, and you repeatedly assert real democracy and free speech/press doesn't exist in those countries either. Conversely, if you like democracy, you have to wage your fight limited by censorship, undercover soldiers, martial law and the like. It does seem rather one-sided.

Yet for the political right wingers there's always too much criticism and the critics are always 100% misinformed, poorly informed, or just outright ignoramuses.

So trying to make the right winger former Special Forces junior sergeant Michael Yon a champion of freedom, liberty, justice is indeed a losing campaign. Yon's publicity stunt of petitioning the White House to remove Amb Kenney is more right wing cheap political theater and Washington knows it.

As of yesterday Yon's pro-dictatorship petition pumped up by the Nation had fewer than 5000 lonely signatures when it in fact needs at least 100,000 by June 24th to be even considered by the president. Yon will need a massive boost from Suthep's people in Bangkok and the Surat if he is to have any chance at all just to get Prez Obama to look at the petition and to say to right wingers everywhere, 'not a chance.'

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/07/michael-yon-sold-as-surplus.html

Edited June 2, 2014 by Publicus

[sumtingwong]

And yet it took fewer people than that for Obama to side with the protestors in Egypt and with the military for removing Egypt's head of state. Thailand is different how?

[ginjag]

This thread has gone quite far off-topic. Numerous inflammatory and baiting posts and replies have been deleted. Please be civil to one another and stick to the topic.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

Maybe Scott it's gone on too long to be of great interest and handy only for the few who use it for various themes.

It has had a very fair hearing longer than many with more important issues. But agree with your warnings.

[englishoak]

This thread has gone quite far off-topic. Numerous inflammatory and baiting posts and replies have been deleted. Please be civil to one another and stick to the topic.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

Maybe Scott it's gone on too long to be of great interest and handy only for the few who use it for various themes.

It has had a very fair hearing longer than many with more important issues. But agree with your warnings.

Not being funny but the lamount of topics able to comment on is getting smaller and smaller every day and more unnews worthy.

Seeing as there are now so many taboo areas to discuss and points of view must be severely restricted to positive only all thats left is meanderings about tin soldier "special forces" hacks like Mr Yon and taking OPs off topic when theres little to expand on thats allowed.

Hard times for TV mods deciding what topic to open and what not. good luck

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I have not read this whole thread but I'm going to say this -

I find it very disturbing the fact that representatives of the USA keep releasing these rather ill-informed inaccurate statements (another one today), it is neither helpful nor productive, they should either get their facts in order or say nothing at all.

The so called Democracy wasn't working here and has rightly been suspended with the support of over 75% of the Thai people, as far as I can see the Junta is doing a better job at running the country than any past government has.

Thailand is on a path to an election - let it run it's course USA and either support it or be silent

I don't say your view isn't widely shared among expatriates here but that doesn't make it right.To many what you call "ill informed statements" seem simplly undeniable statements of fact.

The figure of 75% support you attribute to the Thai people is simply not possible to know.An election would clarify matters but that is not going to happen of course.

It's not just the US Government which has condemned current developments in Thailand.It's the entire civilised world.Some governments (like Australia) have gone further and banned entry to the Junta.

Finally a word on the appalling Michael Yon.The exposure this joke person has achieved in the current crisis is because there are no repeat no credible foreign media or opinion sources giving the current regime a sympathetic view.Thus a huckster like Yon and a fruitcake like Tony Cartalucci serve some purpose even among people who should know better.To me a very sad sight was a highly educated man like Abhisit giving the Yonster the time of day.

"..... The figure of 75% support you attribute to the Thai people is simply not possible to know."

Well well, perhaps you and fabie might like to remember that with many of your posts which attempt to claim inside knowledge and data. Again and again posters ask for more details, never comes.

[Mackie]

... As of yesterday Yon's pro-dictatorship petition pumped up by the Nation had fewer than 5000 lonely signatures when it in fact needs at least 100,000 by June 24th to be even considered by the president. Yon will need a massive boost from Suthep's people in Bangkok and the Surat if he is to have any chance at all just to get Prez Obama to look at the petition and to say to right wingers everywhere, 'not a chance.'

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/07/michael-yon-sold-as-surplus.html

Perhaps something to do with the super surveillance technology the corporate fascists who rule over the USA and good portion of the world use to control people. Has it ever occurred to you to you that people are frightened to participate in online communities since a brave man opened the U.S can of worms and as a result had to run for his life. Before you criticize others, you might take a hard look at yourself. You see, You don't like your own reflection. Thailand doesn't need anyone's help. Thais will find their own way. A third way.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Mackie

[Publicus]

And yet it took fewer people than that for Obama to side with the protestors in Egypt and with the military for removing Egypt's head of state. Thailand is different how?

So I see your date of enlistment into TVF is 08 May 2014, so maybe you're a newbie to Thailand.

Egypt the past 60 or so years has been a republic.

Thailand is a constitutional monarchy.

You stumbled around before in what for you is a dark and unknown room.

I'd recommend getting a flashlight before busting into it again.

[sumtingwong]

And yet it took fewer people than that for Obama to side with the protestors in Egypt and with the military for removing Egypt's head of state. Thailand is different how?

So I see your date of enlistment into TVF is 08 May 2014, so maybe you're a newbie to Thailand.

Egypt the past 60 or so years has been a republic.

Thailand is a constitutional monarchy.

You stumbled around before in what for you is a dark and unknown room.

I'd recommend getting a flashlight before busting into it again.

And that makes the Egyptian coups, alright how?

[ginjag]

And yet it took fewer people than that for Obama to side with the protestors in Egypt and with the military for removing Egypt's head of state. Thailand is different how?

So I see your date of enlistment into TVF is 08 May 2014, so maybe you're a newbie to Thailand.

Egypt the past 60 or so years has been a republic.

Thailand is a constitutional monarchy.

You stumbled around before in what for you is a dark and unknown room.

I'd recommend getting a flashlight before busting into it again.

New or not he has a point of view--so new to you is knowing nothing--does his enrolment in TVF indicate he is a new arrival ??

and why post his details on your post---bad taste. gaining a few brownie points are we.

Promoting yourself as a learned one.

Your last 2 sentences are uncalled for, then you gave a smiley to make up for your comments.

[djjamie]

Do you follow Michael Yon?

yes

why am I unsurprised? says it all...

You guys are as predictable as night following day.

I also follow UDD_English on twitter as well as redthroughtoutthailand and Andrew Gregory Marshall (Yon's nemesis) as well as yingluck on FB (Well yingluck deleted now)

What it says is that you like to jump to conclusions.

No comment?

[Publicus]

Maybe Scott it's gone on too long to be of great interest and handy only for the few who use it for various themes.

It has had a very fair hearing longer than many with more important issues. But agree with your warnings.

It's more than evident your side is taking serious gas at this thread.

You wanna beg the Mods, it's up to you.

Begging however is never good form.

... As of yesterday Yon's pro-dictatorship petition pumped up by the Nation had fewer than 5000 lonely signatures when it in fact needs at least 100,000 by June 24th to be even considered by the president. Yon will need a massive boost from Suthep's people in Bangkok and the Surat if he is to have any chance at all just to get Prez Obama to look at the petition and to say to right wingers everywhere, 'not a chance.'

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/07/michael-yon-sold-as-surplus.html

Perhaps something to do with the super surveillance technology the corporate fascists who rule over the USA and good portion of the world use to control people. Has it ever occurred to you to you that people are frightened to participate in online communities since a brave man opened the U.S can of worms and as a result had to run for his life. Before you criticize others, you might take a hard look at yourself. You see, You don't like your own reflection. Thailand doesn't need anyone's help. Thais will find their own way. A third way.

Kindly save your pretentious and boring lectures against democracy and in favor of dictatorship for when you yourself are in front of the proverbial mirror that your side trots out regularly and consistently. Congrats actually, cause this time you didn't literally say the word "mirror." You instead lecture to look at one's own reflection. This approach however long ago became banal and glib to say, yet you guys still yak on about everyone except yourself needing to reflect and repent.

Ambassador Kenney used to be on the staff of the White House National Security Council and formerly was director of the Operations Center at the State Department. She served as ambassador to the Philippines during the terms of Pres Gloria Aroyo who successfully busted several serious military mutiny coup attempts by various elements of the Philippine Army.

Ambassador Kenny is just about the best person the United States could have in this position during the current chaos. Prez Obama knows this, which is why he ordered Amb Kenney to continue in Thailand even though her normal tour as ambassador expired the past January. U.S. ambassadors serve at the pleasure of the president, and Prez Obama made clear early this year Amb Kenney will be here through the year.

So suck it up and get used to it. ;

Outgoing US Ambassador to the Philippines Kristie Kenney receives a plaque from Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Gen. Victor Ibrado during the testimonial parade given to her by the military at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City Wednesday. Kenney, who is set to be replaced later this month, was honored for her efforts in strengthening the bilateral defense ties between the US and the Philippines. James Mananghaya

Edited by Publicus for technical buggery.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Publicus

[sumtingwong]

Says the expert in "pretentious and boring lectures".

[Pi Sek]

A character he certainly is. Nobody who lives as long as we have is going to have a past path free of critics. Certainly some criticism is deserved. I lose patience when I see misinformed memes repeated about Yon, as I do know him quite well.

He makes no bones about his personal politics, and he is as entitled to his preferences as any of us. I will say that his personal views derive from a much deeper analysis than many realize. He is also quick to publish a correction or a retraction.

As for his personal finances, he is under no obligation to share that information with anyone. It is between him and the IRS. As for the sniping about Yon's "work permit," or his visa, the Royal Thai Government is acutely aware of his presence and his activities in the kingdom.

I thought it fascinating, in fact, that Yon remained unmolested by the former Puea Thai government, as his coverage of the Whistleblower protests continued. The Reds, who know him well in Chiang Mai, likewise left him be. When Yon visited the Red protest site, he was not abused in any way.

For all those critics of the coup who claim that the media is not free in Thailand, I will agree to the extent that lèse majesté is illegal. Aside from that, it is possible to publish just about anything here. I will add that I think that CNN and BBC both merit their sustained time-out on TrueVisions. I hope that it costs them both a ton of money. If they are smart, they will tighten up their editorial processes and pursue a more balanced and sober reporting from the kingdom.

As an American, I believe in a free press. But this is Thailand. The generals are now in charge. They are loyal to their people and to their King. Bottom line.

I would finally add that the press in America is not free. We believe that it is, but if the recent character assassination directed at Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden is any indicator, the mass media in America is outright owned by corporate America, the same malign actors that Ike warned about in his infamous address on the military-industrial complex.

There are efforts afoot, moreover, to bring the wild parts of the internet under control. We are living in historic times, in the infancy, still, of the internet, which only was born for practical purposes around 1995. Next year, the internet as most of us know it will be twenty years old.

I pray that it may never be regulated. The eruption of the net in the past twenty years has been the most momentous development in the history of the human race. Nothing matters more.

I hate spam.

Nonsense.There is no deep analysis from Yon.He is an opportunistic semi educated goon with no credibility at all with other than the gullible.Your remarks about the generals in charge are ridiculous and could have been borrowed from the Yonster.

What's sad is to see Americans who profess patriotism but despise the ideals of Jefferson and Founding Fathers..

And on his snake oil fund raising activities you are simply wrong.He is guilty of defrauding the public.

I disagree.

So now what?

Ok. I will play.

1. "No deep analysis from Yon." Did you bother to read his articles on the Whistleblowers on his magazine site? No one reported with more depth on the constituent organizations or their activities. Any journalist or academic that writes about recent events must either consult those articles, or be impoverished with a shallow understanding that leaves them regurgitating one another's drive-bys.

2. "Semi educated?" That must be why he has 240,000 fans on his Facebook. "No credibility?" Again, 240,000 fans, and a half million readers on a daily basis, must all be stupid. Oh, and "gullible." No need to substantiate any of these statements. This is the internet. Anyone can pontificate to their heart's desire. Please continue. What you write, and what you think, has swayed me not one iota.

3. My comments about the generals in charge are ridiculous? Again, illuminate me. I assure you that my words are my own. I borrow from no one.

4. How you get the idea that "Americans who profess patriotism but despise the ideals of Jefferson and Founding Fathers" mystifies me. Again, 'fess up and substantiate your ludicrous statement. I would love to hear it. Except that it might make my IQ drop.

5. "Defrauding the public?" "Snake oil?" I know that I am going to regret giving you the time of day, but I feel that such bitterness must be given an opportunity to explain itself.

So go ahead. You get five more minutes of my time. Then I am moving on.

I hate spam.

Save this mindless junk for the the bars where there are many veterans who ruminate endlessly on these US military trivia matters.There used to be places on Washington Square where ex US army drunks, some of them quite amiable wittered on endlessly in this manner.None of them as far as I know had been commissioned officers.

Yon is a fraud and a huckster, and knows nothing about Thailand beyond what he is fed..If you see him as informed or interesting, that's your privilege.

jayboy jayboy jayboy... Why is it that your posts are so aggressive? I think I have commented on a number of threads where you've maybe been a bit trigger happy with the verging-on-insulting tone. I plead with you again... you are clever enough to interest and engage those that don't agree with you, so why the constant attempts to shout them down? You, along with the likes of Thai At Heart and Emptyset come up with some very good arguments that counter those of fascist Yellow Shirts like myself. Why not use them?

For the record... I think Yon is not a good journalist. In fact he's as bad as Nick Nostitz. They're still both worth reading though, so one can get a good feel for the more hysterical propaganda flying around on both sides.

[jayboy]

jayboy jayboy jayboy... Why is it that your posts are so aggressive? I think I have commented on a number of threads where you've maybe been a bit trigger happy with the verging-on-insulting tone. I plead with you again... you are clever enough to interest and engage those that don't agree with you, so why the constant attempts to shout them down? You, along with the likes of Thai At Heart and Emptyset come up with some very good arguments that counter those of fascist Yellow Shirts like myself. Why not use them?

For the record... I think Yon is not a good journalist. In fact he's as bad as Nick Nostitz. They're still both worth reading though, so one can get a good feel for the more hysterical propaganda flying around on both sides.

Yon doesn't even claim to be a journalist.He is a worthless fraud feeding off the gullible - he has no understanding of Thailand's political crisis and his boorish hounding of a blameless US ambassador is a disgrace.As to his expertise on the US military I have no idea but he comes over as a stupid obese thug.

Nick Nostitz is a superb photo journalist and has been praised by many distinguished experts including the historian Chris Baker.

It is absurd to compare the two - not because of their politics or affiliations, but because Nostitz is a a high calibre observer and Yon is as described above.

[sumtingwong]

Nick Nostitz "I prefer to just call myself photographer, I am not such a good journalist."

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/interview/interview6.html

[tonbridgebrit]

Another silly but slightly dangerous photo that has been put up by whatever person on Michael Yon's facebook page.
Surely, ALL of us agree that it will be really bad IF lot's of Thais reckon that this is a good idea ?

Thank God, (or indeed, let's hope) that Thais who feel this way make up an insignificant percentage of the population.

On a lighter note, somebody did write under the photo, a comment about how facebook is American, and how about boycotting facebook ?

[than]

US diplomacy is not to spill democracy in the world, but to serve self -interest ( I'm not see return of peace and order in Irak and Afghanistan....)

In Thailand, the first interest of US is to permanently deploy troops in the Country, that Thai forces not want..... second to try to control gas field in Gulf of Thailand.....

Remember during Taksin regime US use Thailand like Torture center, with goodwill of former premier

[ginjag]

Maybe Scott it's gone on too long to be of great interest and handy only for the few who use it for various themes.

It has had a very fair hearing longer than many with more important issues. But agree with your warnings.

It's more than evident your side is taking serious gas at this thread.

You wanna beg the Mods, it's up to you.

Begging however is never good form.

... As of yesterday Yon's pro-dictatorship petition pumped up by the Nation had fewer than 5000 lonely signatures when it in fact needs at least 100,000 by June 24th to be even considered by the president. Yon will need a massive boost from Suthep's people in Bangkok and the Surat if he is to have any chance at all just to get Prez Obama to look at the petition and to say to right wingers everywhere, 'not a chance.'

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/07/michael-yon-sold-as-surplus.html

Perhaps something to do with the super surveillance technology the corporate fascists who rule over the USA and good portion of the world use to control people. Has it ever occurred to you to you that people are frightened to participate in online communities since a brave man opened the U.S can of worms and as a result had to run for his life. Before you criticize others, you might take a hard look at yourself. You see, You don't like your own reflection. Thailand doesn't need anyone's help. Thais will find their own way. A third way.

Kindly save your pretentious and boring lectures against democracy and in favor of dictatorship for when you yourself are in front of the proverbial mirror that your side trots out regularly and consistently. Congrats actually, cause this time you didn't literally say the word "mirror." You instead lecture to look at one's own reflection. This approach however long ago became banal and glib to say, yet you guys still yak on about everyone except yourself needing to reflect and repent.

Ambassador Kenney used to be on the staff of the White House National Security Council and formerly was director of the Operations Center at the State Department. She served as ambassador to the Philippines during the terms of Pres Gloria Aroyo who successfully busted several serious military mutiny coup attempts by various elements of the Philippine Army.

Ambassador Kenny is just about the best person the United States could have in this position during the current chaos. Prez Obama knows this, which is why he ordered Amb Kenney to continue in Thailand even though her normal tour as ambassador expired the past January. U.S. ambassadors serve at the pleasure of the president, and Prez Obama made clear early this year Amb Kenney will be here through the year.

So suck it up and get used to it. ;

Outgoing US Ambassador to the Philippines Kristie Kenney receives a plaque from Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Gen. Victor Ibrado during the testimonial parade given to her by the military at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City Wednesday. Kenney, who is set to be replaced later this month, was honored for her efforts in strengthening the bilateral defense ties between the US and the Philippines. James Mananghaya

Edited by Publicus for technical buggery.

Yawn, we want all this for what-it's been said before. You must just love your own importance. post by all means but don't write a book.

What's all this B/S about quote-"begging the mods" your a wind up merchant, it is posts like yours that shorten the life of topics. No humour, lengthy space fillers, repeated info, Kenny in the limelight so captivating.

Edited June 3, 2014 by ginjag

[Pi Sek]

jayboy jayboy jayboy... Why is it that your posts are so aggressive? I think I have commented on a number of threads where you've maybe been a bit trigger happy with the verging-on-insulting tone. I plead with you again... you are clever enough to interest and engage those that don't agree with you, so why the constant attempts to shout them down? You, along with the likes of Thai At Heart and Emptyset come up with some very good arguments that counter those of fascist Yellow Shirts like myself. Why not use them?

For the record... I think Yon is not a good journalist. In fact he's as bad as Nick Nostitz. They're still both worth reading though, so one can get a good feel for the more hysterical propaganda flying around on both sides.

Yon doesn't even claim to be a journalist.He is a worthless fraud feeding off the gullible - he has no understanding of Thailand's political crisis and his boorish hounding of a blameless US ambassador is a disgrace.As to his expertise on the US military I have no idea but he comes over as a stupid obese thug.

Nick Nostitz is a superb photo journalist and has been praised by many distinguished experts including the historian Chris Baker.

It is absurd to compare the two - not because of their politics or affiliations, but because Nostitz is a a high calibre observer and Yon is as described above.

Well, each to their own - but I disagree on your appraisal of:

1. Yon - he may be an-outlet for totally pro-Yellow propaganda, and most of the snippets that come from him are hearsay, and I agree that he is feeding off the gullible (though not as a worthless fraud), but I think he knows Thai politics pretty well and I personally agree with the criticism of...

2. Kenney - The US' unwavering support for a government that is democratically elected but autocratic in nature in furtherance of democracy is quite frankly a disgrace, and if I were an American I would be ashamed; as far as I'm concerned she's out of the same book as Yinglak. Besides, I am very skeptical as to what the US actually wants here, as I think democracy in Thailand is as important to them as it is to Thaksin. They don't want democracy, they want a puppet state that follow their lead in the region, hence all their posturing (as is the case with the allies of the Western "amart" such as Australia). And I certainly wouldn't write off the suggestion by "than" above that they miss the days of extraordinary rendition centres in Udon and they are interested in the gas reserves in the Gulf.

3. Nostitz - is very comparable to Yon in the balance of his reporting; besides which the two photo-journalists (I think that's the best word to describe them both) are probably the two that are closest to the events on the ground. The only real difference is that Nostitz claims to be neutral, and Yon doesn't.

We already know you disagree, and you probably find my opinions a little baffling. But it's important for democracy to realise that both your and my opinions are shared with many. One or both of us may even be wrong, but how can we tell due to the nature of untruths on all sides? This is why education is important to democracy and also why, in a flourishing democracy, political radio stations and firebrand speakers should not be allowed to disseminate whatever accusations they they feel like throwing out. Which, in my opinion, is exactly why reform is needed before election; and this reform has to be agreed upon by all quarreling parties. Unfortunately, I think that it is beyond Thais' nature to sit down and make this agreement unless they have been forced to sit down and talk by the military who are, in my opinion, responsible for stopping a civil war and therefore the saviours of the nation.

[Publicus]

US diplomacy is not to spill democracy in the world, but to serve self -interest ( I'm not see return of peace and order in Irak and Afghanistan....)

In Thailand, the first interest of US is to permanently deploy troops in the Country, that Thai forces not want..... second to try to control gas field in Gulf of Thailand.....

Remember during Taksin regime US use Thailand like Torture center, with goodwill of former premier

There are people in Thailand to include a lot of expats not from the United States who need to realize and recognize that Washington DC and Bangkok were founded at the same time in history, yet the fact and reality is the two countries exist in two radically different universes.

I'm pointing out facts here, not passing judgement.

It is fact that virtually anything the United States military or intelligence agencies do in Thailand is always done with the consent of the government and of its boss, the Thai military.

Thailand is a formal security treaty ally of the United States in this region of the world, as are Australia, the Philippines, South Korea, Japan.

Immediately before Amb Kenney became chief of mission to Thailand she was ambassador to the Philippines and is presently being talked up as the next ambassador to South Korea.

Ambassador Kenney represents Prez Obama to the Thai government which means Amb Kenney has called for an immediate return of democracy and elections. A lot of people around here reject that. They are just going to have to suck it up and learn to live with it.

[ginjag]

US diplomacy is not to spill democracy in the world, but to serve self -interest ( I'm not see return of peace and order in Irak and Afghanistan....)

In Thailand, the first interest of US is to permanently deploy troops in the Country, that Thai forces not want..... second to try to control gas field in Gulf of Thailand.....

Remember during Taksin regime US use Thailand like Torture center, with goodwill of former premier

There are people in Thailand to include a lot of expats not from the United States who need to realize and recognize that Washington DC and Bangkok were founded at the same time in history, yet the fact and reality is the two countries exist in two radically different universes.

I'm pointing out facts here, not passing judgement.

It is fact that virtually anything the United States military or intelligence agencies do in Thailand is always done with the consent of the government and of its boss, the Thai military.

Thailand is a formal security treaty ally of the United States in this region of the world, as are Australia, the Philippines, South Korea, Japan.

Immediately before Amb Kenney became chief of mission to Thailand she was ambassador to the Philippines and is presently being talked up as the next ambassador to South Korea.

Ambassador Kenney represents Prez Obama to the Thai government which means Amb Kenney has called for an immediate return of democracy and elections. A lot of people around here reject that. They are just going to have to suck it up and learn to live with it.

Where the heck do you think we get democracy from ??? not the last government that has been proved already.

You do never get democracy in this case through elections any fool now knows this and Thais are now more learned toward the subject.

This is why all this clean up HAS to happen (no matter who does it ). It is you that is going to have to suck up to the fact that PTP has gone and strict control is needed before any free elections can take place---like it Pub/Kenny or lump it.

The army are not impressed with the propaganda Kenny photo's, or anyone much on TVF.

[Publicus]

US diplomacy is not to spill democracy in the world, but to serve self -interest ( I'm not see return of peace and order in Irak and Afghanistan....)

In Thailand, the first interest of US is to permanently deploy troops in the Country, that Thai forces not want..... second to try to control gas field in Gulf of Thailand.....

Remember during Taksin regime US use Thailand like Torture center, with goodwill of former premier

There are people in Thailand to include a lot of expats not from the United States who need to realize and recognize that Washington DC and Bangkok were founded at the same time in history, yet the fact and reality is the two countries exist in two radically different universes.

I'm pointing out facts here, not passing judgement.

It is fact that virtually anything the United States military or intelligence agencies do in Thailand is always done with the consent of the government and of its boss, the Thai military.

Thailand is a formal security treaty ally of the United States in this region of the world, as are Australia, the Philippines, South Korea, Japan.

Immediately before Amb Kenney became chief of mission to Thailand she was ambassador to the Philippines and is presently being talked up as the next ambassador to South Korea.

Ambassador Kenney represents Prez Obama to the Thai government which means Amb Kenney has called for an immediate return of democracy and elections. A lot of people around here reject that. They are just going to have to suck it up and learn to live with it.

Where the heck do you think we get democracy from ??? not the last government that has been proved already.

You do never get democracy in this case through elections any fool now knows this and Thais are now more learned toward the subject.

This is why all this clean up HAS to happen (no matter who does it ). It is you that is going to have to suck up to the fact that PTP has gone and strict control is needed before any free elections can take place---like it Pub/Kenny or lump it.

The army are not impressed with the propaganda Kenny photo's, or anyone much on TVF.

This photo was taken of then U.S. Ambassador to the Philippines Kristie Kenney during the January, 2011 formal military testimonial ceremony and parade given her by the Philippine military high command general staff, honoring her departure from the Phils to assume the new position of United States Ambassador to the Kingdom of Thailand.

Amb Kenney exceptionally received the honor of a military testimonial ceremony which is reserved for retiring generals or visiting heads of military forces. Next to Amb Kenney is the Philippine Armed Forces Commander General Victor Ibrado.

I'd noted that Thailand and the Phils are formal security treaty allies of the United States in this region of the world.

Outgoing US Ambassador to the Philippines Kristie Kenney with Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Gen. Victor Ibrado during the testimonial parade given to her by the military at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City Wednesday. James Mananghaya

Edited June 3, 2014 by Publicus

[Fat Haggis]

US diplomacy is not to spill democracy in the world, but to serve self -interest ( I'm not see return of peace and order in Irak and Afghanistan....)

In Thailand, the first interest of US is to permanently deploy troops in the Country, that Thai forces not want..... second to try to control gas field in Gulf of Thailand.....

Remember during Taksin regime US use Thailand like Torture center, with goodwill of former premier

There are people in Thailand to include a lot of expats not from the United States who need to realize and recognize that Washington DC and Bangkok were founded at the same time in history, yet the fact and reality is the two countries exist in two radically different universes.

I'm pointing out facts here, not passing judgement.

It is fact that virtually anything the United States military or intelligence agencies do in Thailand is always done with the consent of the government and of its boss, the Thai military.

Thailand is a formal security treaty ally of the United States in this region of the world, as are Australia, the Philippines, South Korea, Japan.

Immediately before Amb Kenney became chief of mission to Thailand she was ambassador to the Philippines and is presently being talked up as the next ambassador to South Korea.

Ambassador Kenney represents Prez Obama to the Thai government which means Amb Kenney has called for an immediate return of democracy and elections. A lot of people around here reject that. They are just going to have to suck it up and learn to live with it.

Where the heck do you think we get democracy from ??? not the last government that has been proved already.

You do never get democracy in this case through elections any fool now knows this and Thais are now more learned toward the subject.

This is why all this clean up HAS to happen (no matter who does it ). It is you that is going to have to suck up to the fact that PTP has gone and strict control is needed before any free elections can take place---like it Pub/Kenny or lump it.

The army are not impressed with the propaganda Kenny photo's, or anyone much on TVF.

The PTP are gone? No they're no longer in Government, they're still there, and still very much a political party (until the Army/Constitutional Courts absolve them)

No disagreement on the clean up part.

The Army and TVF members are not impressed with propaganda photos? Are you speaking on behalf of all the members of TVF again which I believe there are what? 16 THOUSAND members? what you meant to say was that a handful of regulars who post the majority of times in the "News" section and of a political nature are less than impressed, you're quite prone to GROSS exaggeration from time to time!!

If you're referring to the pictures taken of Diplomats in a Red Village on Michael Yons pages, posing for pictures, did it occur to you that the PTP /UDD were the Ruling party at that time, so why would it be "propaganda" when it's quite the norm to align ones self with the "ruling" administrations? It does appear that you're taring all Red supporters with the same brush, many many many Reds had no love for Thaksin, and not all red supporters supported the acts of terrorism either, which is what Yon is trying to stir up in his posts, he's whipping his "sheeple" into mouth foaming "extremists" ...reconciliation? You're having a laugh, all you need to do is read 3-4 posts of his, and you'll see that his followers are far from interested in reconciliation.

You personally might not like it, but then again, you're not a diplomat, and didn't have to do the meet and greets and there are indeed times when you have to shake hands with the devil, it's called "protocol". But seeing as these all happened PRE Coup, then I fail to see how the General would be less than impressed, as to be quite frank, it wasn't his lane to be in.

Have the US Embassy or it's diplomats been involved in such "propaganda" POST coup for the Army/General Prayuth to be unimpressed? I think not.. so as you're quick to call other posters "liars" perhaps a wee look in the mirror wouldn't go amiss on this occasion??

[ginjag]

US diplomacy is not to spill democracy in the world, but to serve self -interest ( I'm not see return of peace and order in Irak and Afghanistan....)

In Thailand, the first interest of US is to permanently deploy troops in the Country, that Thai forces not want..... second to try to control gas field in Gulf of Thailand.....

Remember during Taksin regime US use Thailand like Torture center, with goodwill of former premier

There are people in Thailand to include a lot of expats not from the United States who need to realize and recognize that Washington DC and Bangkok were founded at the same time in history, yet the fact and reality is the two countries exist in two radically different universes.

I'm pointing out facts here, not passing judgement.

It is fact that virtually anything the United States military or intelligence agencies do in Thailand is always done with the consent of the government and of its boss, the Thai military.

Thailand is a formal security treaty ally of the United States in this region of the world, as are Australia, the Philippines, South Korea, Japan.

Immediately before Amb Kenney became chief of mission to Thailand she was ambassador to the Philippines and is presently being talked up as the next ambassador to South Korea.

Ambassador Kenney represents Prez Obama to the Thai government which means Amb Kenney has called for an immediate return of democracy and elections. A lot of people around here reject that. They are just going to have to suck it up and learn to live with it.

Where the heck do you think we get democracy from ??? not the last government that has been proved already.

You do never get democracy in this case through elections any fool now knows this and Thais are now more learned toward the subject.

This is why all this clean up HAS to happen (no matter who does it ). It is you that is going to have to suck up to the fact that PTP has gone and strict control is needed before any free elections can take place---like it Pub/Kenny or lump it.

The army are not impressed with the propaganda Kenny photo's, or anyone much on TVF.

The PTP are gone? No they're no longer in Government, they're still there, and still very much a political party (until the Army/Constitutional Courts absolve them)

No disagreement on the clean up part.

The Army and TVF members are not impressed with propaganda photos? Are you speaking on behalf of all the members of TVF again which I believe there are what? 16 THOUSAND members? what you meant to say was that a handful of regulars who post the majority of times in the "News" section and of a political nature are less than impressed, you're quite prone to GROSS exaggeration from time to time!!

If you're referring to the pictures taken of Diplomats in a Red Village on Michael Yons pages, posing for pictures, did it occur to you that the PTP /UDD were the Ruling party at that time, so why would it be "propaganda" when it's quite the norm to align ones self with the "ruling" administrations? It does appear that you're taring all Red supporters with the same brush, many many many Reds had no love for Thaksin, and not all red supporters supported the acts of terrorism either, which is what Yon is trying to stir up in his posts, he's whipping his "sheeple" into mouth foaming "extremists" ...reconciliation? You're having a laugh, all you need to do is read 3-4 posts of his, and you'll see that his followers are far from interested in reconciliation.

You personally might not like it, but then again, you're not a diplomat, and didn't have to do the meet and greets and there are indeed times when you have to shake hands with the devil, it's called "protocol". But seeing as these all happened PRE Coup, then I fail to see how the General would be less than impressed, as to be quite frank, it wasn't his lane to be in.

Have the US Embassy or it's diplomats been involved in such "propaganda" POST coup for the Army/General Prayuth to be unimpressed? I think not.. so as you're quick to call other posters "liars" perhaps a wee look in the mirror wouldn't go amiss on this occasion??

And all this post for what ??? because I criticize Publicus for writing saga's instead of posting.

And he was trying to impress with photo's of Ms Kenny in Phil., I said not many posters or the army would be much interested.

As for Mr Yon---didn't mention him--I'm again not interested in him or all the diplomatic fuss. My post on page 1, will give you my feeling, so I was not alone 20+ others agreed with the initial post.

The PTP are as dead as a doornail. better not keep referring to them---history--but some more interesting things to come on that score, This is why my comment is hard referring to them.

When I have stated that a poster has lied especially in reply then that poster will have told a porky pie. I do NOT go around calling people liars. unless they tell an untruth.

[casualbiker]

US diplomacy is not to spill democracy in the world, but to serve self -interest ( I'm not see return of peace and order in Irak and Afghanistan....)

In Thailand, the first interest of US is to permanently deploy troops in the Country, that Thai forces not want..... second to try to control gas field in Gulf of Thailand.....

Remember during Taksin regime US use Thailand like Torture center, with goodwill of former premier

There are people in Thailand to include a lot of expats not from the United States who need to realize and recognize that Washington DC and Bangkok were founded at the same time in history, yet the fact and reality is the two countries exist in two radically different universes.

I'm pointing out facts here, not passing judgement.

It is fact that virtually anything the United States military or intelligence agencies do in Thailand is always done with the consent of the government and of its boss, the Thai military.

Thailand is a formal security treaty ally of the United States in this region of the world, as are Australia, the Philippines, South Korea, Japan.

Immediately before Amb Kenney became chief of mission to Thailand she was ambassador to the Philippines and is presently being talked up as the next ambassador to South Korea.

Ambassador Kenney represents Prez Obama to the Thai government which means Amb Kenney has called for an immediate return of democracy and elections. A lot of people around here reject that. They are just going to have to suck it up and learn to live with it.

Where the heck do you think we get democracy from ??? not the last government that has been proved already.

You do never get democracy in this case through elections any fool now knows this and Thais are now more learned toward the subject.

This is why all this clean up HAS to happen (no matter who does it ). It is you that is going to have to suck up to the fact that PTP has gone and strict control is needed before any free elections can take place---like it Pub/Kenny or lump it.

The army are not impressed with the propaganda Kenny photo's, or anyone much on TVF.

This photo was taken of then U.S. Ambassador to the Philippines Kristie Kenney during the January, 2011 formal military testimonial ceremony and parade given her by the Philippine military high command general staff, honoring her departure from the Phils to assume the new position of United States Ambassador to the Kingdom of Thailand.

Amb Kenney exceptionally received the honor of a military testimonial ceremony which is reserved for retiring generals or visiting heads of military forces. Next to Amb Kenney is the Philippine Armed Forces Commander General Victor Ibrado.

I'd noted that Thailand and the Phils are formal security treaty allies of the United States in this region of the world.

Outgoing US Ambassador to the Philippines Kristie Kenney with Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Gen. Victor Ibrado during the testimonial parade given to her by the military at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City Wednesday. James Mananghaya

" I'd noted that Thailand and the Phils are formal security treaty allies of the United States in this region of the world."

You would usually give honors to a decent paymaster surely.

507 million dollars in military aid since 2001.. 40 million last year.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4815877

And yet messages on Facebook saying some US forces serving abroad have had rations cut to 2 meals a day.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ma91c1an]

A character he certainly is. Nobody who lives as long as we have is going to have a past path free of critics. Certainly some criticism is deserved. I lose patience when I see misinformed memes repeated about Yon, as I do know him quite well.

He makes no bones about his personal politics, and he is as entitled to his preferences as any of us. I will say that his personal views derive from a much deeper analysis than many realize. He is also quick to publish a correction or a retraction.

As for his personal finances, he is under no obligation to share that information with anyone. It is between him and the IRS. As for the sniping about Yon's "work permit," or his visa, the Royal Thai Government is acutely aware of his presence and his activities in the kingdom.

I thought it fascinating, in fact, that Yon remained unmolested by the former Puea Thai government, as his coverage of the Whistleblower protests continued. The Reds, who know him well in Chiang Mai, likewise left him be. When Yon visited the Red protest site, he was not abused in any way.

For all those critics of the coup who claim that the media is not free in Thailand, I will agree to the extent that lèse majesté is illegal. Aside from that, it is possible to publish just about anything here. I will add that I think that CNN and BBC both merit their sustained time-out on TrueVisions. I hope that it costs them both a ton of money. If they are smart, they will tighten up their editorial processes and pursue a more balanced and sober reporting from the kingdom.

As an American, I believe in a free press. But this is Thailand. The generals are now in charge. They are loyal to their people and to their King. Bottom line.

I would finally add that the press in America is not free. We believe that it is, but if the recent character assassination directed at Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden is any indicator, the mass media in America is outright owned by corporate America, the same malign actors that Ike warned about in his infamous address on the military-industrial complex.

There are efforts afoot, moreover, to bring the wild parts of the internet under control. We are living in historic times, in the infancy, still, of the internet, which only was born for practical purposes around 1995. Next year, the internet as most of us know it will be twenty years old.

I pray that it may never be regulated. The eruption of the net in the past twenty years has been the most momentous development in the history of the human race. Nothing matters more.

I hate spam.

Nonsense.There is no deep analysis from Yon.He is an opportunistic semi educated goon with no credibility at all with other than the gullible.Your remarks about the generals in charge are ridiculous and could have been borrowed from the Yonster.

What's sad is to see Americans who profess patriotism but despise the ideals of Jefferson and Founding Fathers..

And on his snake oil fund raising activities you are simply wrong.He is guilty of defrauding the public.

I disagree.

So now what?

Ok. I will play.

1. "No deep analysis from Yon." Did you bother to read his articles on the Whistleblowers on his magazine site? No one reported with more depth on the constituent organizations or their activities. Any journalist or academic that writes about recent events must either consult those articles, or be impoverished with a shallow understanding that leaves them regurgitating one another's drive-bys.

2. "Semi educated?" That must be why he has 240,000 fans on his Facebook. "No credibility?" Again, 240,000 fans, and a half million readers on a daily basis, must all be stupid. Oh, and "gullible." No need to substantiate any of these statements. This is the internet. Anyone can pontificate to their heart's desire. Please continue. What you write, and what you think, has swayed me not one iota.

3. My comments about the generals in charge are ridiculous? Again, illuminate me. I assure you that my words are my own. I borrow from no one.

4. How you get the idea that "Americans who profess patriotism but despise the ideals of Jefferson and Founding Fathers" mystifies me. Again, 'fess up and substantiate your ludicrous statement. I would love to hear it. Except that it might make my IQ drop.

5. "Defrauding the public?" "Snake oil?" I know that I am going to regret giving you the time of day, but I feel that such bitterness must be given an opportunity to explain itself.

So go ahead. You get five more minutes of my time. Then I am moving on.

I hate spam.

Save this mindless junk for the the bars where there are many veterans who ruminate endlessly on these US military trivia matters.There used to be places on Washington Square where ex US army drunks, some of them quite amiable wittered on endlessly in this manner.None of them as far as I know had been commissioned officers.

Yon is a fraud and a huckster, and knows nothing about Thailand beyond what he is fed..If you see him as informed or interesting, that's your privilege.

Ok.

I got spanked by a moderator, apparently because I was too direct, or my language stung. I took a timeout to ruminate on my sins. Now I am back.

1. I was a commissioned officer. So what? What does that have to do with anything?

2. You say that "Yon is a fraud and a huckster." Do you understand the definition of the term, "defamation?" Moreover, do you understand the legal definition of this term in Thai jurisprudence? This simple, declarative accusation that you lob like a hand grenade is devoid of factual content. It may end up being the most expensive statement that you ever make.

3. You say, "Yon...knows nothing about Thailand beyond what he is fed."

Another ad hominem attack, empty of factual content or evidence of any kind.

I asked, repeatedly, for factual support for the ad hominem attacks that you waged on Mike Yon. You responded with more ad hominem attacks, more dismissive verbiage, and you failed to answer any of my questions, or to substantiate any of your poisonous remarks.

So, I would like to give you one more shot.

What else you got?

I hate spam.