Can the internet be shut down?

[brewsterbudgen]

As a bit of a Luddite, I'm finding the absence of English language international news on TV in Thailand very difficult. Not that I'm a particular fan of CNN, BBC World, Fox, Bloomberg etc., but I tend to have it on as background and particular enjoy progamming that is 'live' from the UK/USA. I was particularly looking forward to the rolling election results coverage tonight and any other live news events.

I realise that I can access these channels online, although my connection is poor and I can't easily find live news coverage, however, Twitter, Facebook and forums like this are proving to be invaluable.

Which leads me to my question - if the situation in Thailand deteriorates in the next few days/weeks/months, how feasible is it for the authorities to 'turn off' the internet? I know individual sites can be (and have been) taken down already, but would it be possible to just deny any form of internet access in Thailand?

[george]

Very unlikely IMO. The banks wouldn't be able to connect with ATM's, is one good example.

[AyG]

Cutting off international sites would be pretty straightforward. Just disconnect the cables to the outside world.

Disabling Thai websites, however, would require individual ISPs to be shut down. Under the current legal framework, I assume that could be done by a simple edict from the military junta.

ATMs would continue to work since they are not connected via the Internet (far too insecure). They are connected by leased line or dial-up.

However, I concur that it's unlikely unless the situation deteriorates significantly. After all, the junta has already demonstrated that it's prepared to cut off access to information with its closing down of all TV stations for 24 hours or so.

[Chicog]

Very simple - tell the ISPs to disable consumer access.

If they really want to, turn off companies as well.

There would still be a few individuals with access to Satellite Internet however.

[keemapoot]

Cutting off international sites would be pretty straightforward. Just disconnect the cables to the outside world.

Disabling Thai websites, however, would require individual ISPs to be shut down. Under the current legal framework, I assume that could be done by a simple edict from the military junta.

ATMs would continue to work since they are not connected via the Internet (far too insecure). They are connected by leased line or dial-up.

However, I concur that it's unlikely unless the situation deteriorates significantly. After all, the junta has already demonstrated that it's prepared to cut off access to information with its closing down of all TV stations for 24 hours or so.

Yes, not that hard to cut off international connectivity as CAT controls all the international gateways. Cutting off metro area networks would be more difficult.

[george]

ATMs would continue to work since they are not connected via the Internet (far too insecure). They are connected by leased line or dial-up.

Wrong. Some ATM's are even using a 3G connection.

[AyG]

ATMs would continue to work since they are not connected via the Internet (far too insecure). They are connected by leased line or dial-up.

Wrong. Some ATM's are even using a 3G connection.

In Thailand? Thailand is so technologically backward, I'd be most surprised if the technology had arrived here yet. It's still relatively new in more developed countries.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I still believe that the vast majority, if not all, ATMs would continue to work in the event of an Internet shutdown.

[joncl]

Heck they started to use tcp by 1998 here on ATM's .. So not as backwards as you might like to imagine.

[AyG]

Heck they started to use tcp by 1998 here on ATM's .. So not as backwards as you might like to imagine.

I don't understand your point. Using TCP/IP is not the same as using the Internet.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

ATMs would continue to work since they are not connected via the Internet (far too insecure). They are connected by leased line or dial-up.

Wrong. Some ATM's are even using a 3G connection.

George is right, you can even see a lot of ATMs with, what appears to be, a normal wi-fi modem sitting on top.

Cutting the overseas lines would be their likely option.

[AyG]

George is right, you can even see a lot of ATMs with, what appears to be, a normal wi-fi modem sitting on top.

The presence of a WiFi modem in no way proves they are using the public Internet rather than a private network.

As for "normal wi-fi modem", the modems used for ATM Internet access in the first world are not "normal" - they include VPN functionality.

So far nobody has provided a shred of credible evidence to suggest that Thai ATMs are connected to the Internet.

Yes, it's technically possible, and done in some countries. Is it done here? I'd be interested to know.

[slipperylobster]

A rudimentary network using acoustic modems would be very slow...but possible. Then you would use a telephone line and an old BBS type setup. But I think there would be better ways.

[MaxLee]

Did anyone have problems using skype from Thailand for overseas calls lately???

just asking...

[Gonsalviz]

Did anyone have problems using skype from Thailand for overseas calls lately???

just asking...

Nope. Skype works fine. VPN would be next.

[MMarlow]

So far nobody has provided a shred of credible evidence to suggest that Thai ATMs are connected to the Internet.

I don't know enough about the subject to judge whether you or anyone else is right or wrong but it's ironic that neither have you provided a shred of evidence to back up your assertion.

Edited May 25, 2014 by MMarlow

[AyG]

So far nobody has provided a shred of credible evidence to suggest that Thai ATMs are connected to the Internet.

I don't know enough about the subject to judge whether you or anyone else is right or wrong but it's ironic that neither have you provided a shred of evidence to back up your assertion.

It's impossible to prove that something doesn't exist. That's why people continue to believe in ghosts, fairies, angels, gods, and that shutting down the Internet in Thailand would stop all its ATMs from working.

Edited May 26, 2014 by AyG

[IBoldnewguy]

What can be turned on - can be turned off.... But will it happen? Possibly yes.... simply to prove a point.

When the off button is pushed I doubt if there would be much concern about individuals being able to access ATM cash.... or not....

When I lived in CA - it was advised that one keep some "Earthquake Cash" handy.... because an equal opportunity disaster turns everything off.... elec, water, internet.... but it would be comforting to know that one could pay cash for food, water or gas to get out of town....

To use an unknown quote: "That which one is prepared for seldom happens."

[Jeffrey346]

Can they do it? Sure.. It's as easy as shutting down the TV feeds. Will they? I don't think so as they will paralyze every major business here in Thailand.

Auto, computer, even light bulb manufacturers need the net to keep their supply line flowing.

The only thing they will accomplish is to drive every international manufacture out of Thailand

[nanapong]

I doubt they'd cut the internet but you never know with this place do you. Logic would say absolutely not but Thais and logic don't often get together. The economic cost would be horrific. Investors would be in panic mode , run on the Baht , credit downgrades , international outcry , even huge losses for Tilac waiting more cash from herd of buffalos every month would suffer. Nah , they'll not cut the net.

[Jeffrey346]

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So far nobody has provided a shred of credible evidence to suggest that Thai ATMs are connected to the Internet.

I don't know enough about the subject to judge whether you or anyone else is right or wrong but it's ironic that neither have you provided a shred of evidence to back up your assertion.

My friend is a VP of one of the major ATM providers. Once upon a time, ATM's required phone lines. Today they use the internet via hardline [DSL] connection or a wireless connection. I would think the newer ATM are wireless.

[Chicog]

Can they do it? Sure.. It's as easy as shutting down the TV feeds. Will they? I don't think so as they will paralyze every major business here in Thailand.

Auto, computer, even light bulb manufacturers need the net to keep their supply line flowing.

The only thing they will accomplish is to drive every international manufacture out of Thailand

If there is a major company on this planet that doesn't have a contingency plan for losing their internet connection, they deserve to be paralyzed.

[recycler]

ATMs would continue to work since they are not connected via the Internet (far too insecure). They are connected by leased line or dial-up.

Wrong. Some ATM's are even using a 3G connection.

3G is not internet, the 3G or EDGE connections used by ATM machines are either (V)PN with guaranteed capacity or dial-in connections that have nothing to do with internet and would also not suffer from Internet problems. For international links Banks also use private networks like Swift. Some major companies have their own global networks, like HSBC, Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, etc.

[Guest]

ATMs would continue to work since they are not connected via the Internet (far too insecure). They are connected by leased line or dial-up.

Wrong. Some ATM's are even using a 3G connection.

I'm pretty sure AyG is right about the leased lines.

I know nothing about the banking networks, but know something about mobile networks. I'm pretty sure that the banks which use 3G connection for ATM communication have setup their own APN's where the connection is ended and then connected to banks internal systems.

Although these connections use the "public" airwaves and some services from the mobile operator's network, the endpoints of these connections belong to the bank.

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes easy enough, as long as you're referring to the connect points from the local in-country internet to the international internet access points.

Doing that properly would cut Thailand off from access to the rest of the world as far as the internet was concerned.

Blocking the internet totally in Thailand would be difficult today, but with some determination and the time/people to enforce it, much of the service providers could be shut down. That would severely hurt if not stop the internet.

In Kuwait, when the Iraqis invaded Kuwait the U.S kept the Kuwaiti phone system running until the actual U.S. forces started moving into Kuwait.

Once the invasion started and U.S troops were headed into Kuwait, the U.S. closed down most of the Kuwaiti telephone system. It was a "computer based digital phone system".

So is the internet, and computer based systems depend on computer servers being available to route packets, don't they?

How well would that system work with no servers?

Or a DDOS attack (Dedicated Denial Of Service) .... in which phony messages would swamp and overload all the distribution servers?

[KhunBENQ]

Did anyone have problems using skype from Thailand for overseas calls lately???

just asking...

No, excellent video/audio connection yesterday afternoon.

(ToT fibre)

[dao16]

Well......

Yes. A recent good example was Iran. Russia is taking its own measures to essentially turn off the international Internet and only host things locally. We shall see how that goes. And then, of course, the is the Great Firewall of China, which is relatively effective against people like you, but not against more savvy people. North Korea--well, they are old hands at it, mostly by starving people.

I think Iran was the most complete shutdown just after the green revolution, but you would have to google search that. Anyway, they are unlikely to do it here, but watch your postings online and be aware that certain things might be blocked. Ask people who were here for the last regime just under 10 years ago. Changed, but nothing too drastic.

[Suradit69]

As a bit of a Luddite, I'm finding the absence of English language international news on TV in Thailand very difficult. Not that I'm a particular fan of CNN, BBC World, Fox, Bloomberg etc., but I tend to have it on as background and particular enjoy progamming that is 'live' from the UK/USA. I was particularly looking forward to the rolling election results coverage tonight and any other live news events

Those programs are all blocked on my True Vision satellite service, but Al Jazeera English service seems to be operating on my Sophon Cable service ... in Pattaya anyway. I miss CNBC and Bloomberg, but there are plenty of children cartoon shows to watch if you feel that Fox Noise's absence has left a void.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Suradit69

[Benmart]

Most things are "possible", but I take one day at a time. Less stress and having a stash of cash in my safe isn't a bad option either.

[ajarnsiam]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "shutting down":

- from a consumer perspective the internet would appear to be shut down if the service provider disabled consumer access (this would probably be the easiest way of "shutting down" the internet with no collateral damage). If the authorities were to "shut down" the internet, this is what they would do. (I don't think they will.)

- cutting cables to the outside world - yes that would shut down access to anything carried via those cables, including internet data, telephone calls, international transaction data (eg banking data), this would be catastrophic with massive collateral damage, won't ever happen.

I'm very very surprised to hear that ATM transaction data may be carried via the internet, but it's a while since I worked in that field so I really can't be certain that it never is.

[glcdc]

Where is Al Gore when you need him? Didn't he invent the internet?