CBR500/CB500F v. Ninja 650....

[ktm jeff]

Thank-you thamteak , its just that with more and more bikes now being available it Thailand , for every Honda made , there is another bike choice available that is either = better built , cheaper to buy, faster , cheaper to maintain , better on fuel , better looking ,more exciting ,stylish and better value. In most cases , several of these , and in some cases (IMO)all of these. ll2 you are correct in that there are currently more bikes available in England (at far higher prices)but riding a motorbike in England is really frowned upon and discouraged by the goverment (bad roads , speed cameras hidden everywhere , mental police , and if you want to ride "greenlanes" you have the problem with the selfish ramblers).And the weather as taninthai says!.This is the reason i will emigrate full time to Thailand once im 50. Im in England now , have been in CM since March , and just missed the launch of the Benelli 600 (think the 300 is out about now). I think this would be a perfect bike for funcat , and at a very good price.

[ktm jeff]

JonnyF we may have to agree to dis-agree on what we each consider makes an amazing looking bike (if the one you saw had gold forks and black calipers, it was a pre-production model. May i clarify some points , Benelli are an Italian based company and their "big bikes" are still made in Pessaro (Italy) with their bikes for "Asia" being made in China. The 300/600 range of engines was designed by Yamaha , and as you correctly say , bought in (to save development costs). I could/should have made it clearer on the power /torque , but i did say "looking at the engine graph".The "at the crank" power of tho Honde is 47BHP (rwhp). So yes , some HP short , although i think the 37 BHP of the Benelli (may-be 33 RWHP) is plenty for its designed use. Always nice to improve though - yes!.

[funcat]

Thank-you thamteak , its just that with more and more bikes now being available it Thailand , for every Honda made , there is another bike choice available that is either = better built , cheaper to buy, faster , cheaper to maintain , better on fuel , better looking ,more exciting ,stylish and better value. In most cases , several of these , and in some cases (IMO)all of these. ll2 you are correct in that there are currently more bikes available in England (at far higher prices)but riding a motorbike in England is really frowned upon and discouraged by the goverment (bad roads , speed cameras hidden everywhere , mental police , and if you want to ride "greenlanes" you have the problem with the selfish ramblers).And the weather as taninthai says!.This is the reason i will emigrate full time to Thailand once im 50. Im in England now , have been in CM since March , and just missed the launch of the Benelli 600 (think the 300 is out about now). I think this would be a perfect bike for funcat , and at a very good price.

".... I think this would be a perfect bike for funcat...".....well,I was the one who asked about Benelli 300 a few months ago (can't find the link in the search),as I recollect,most of the posters have encouraged me to wait for CBR300,which by now will be introduced about the same time as Benelli...and I think most of the people will turn to Honda anyway....so,this case is closed for me and for now,it either be a Honda 500 cc,or the Ninja 650...

Give me a few more days to make up my mind...but feel free to continue on this subject

[ktm jeff]

Sorry funcat , i didnt see your earlier thread about the Benelli 300! The Benelli may not be enough of a "up-grade" for you with 37BHP , but the Honda 300 only has 32BHP ,so i can understand you taking that off the wish list. "I think most people will turn to the Honda anyway" is exactly why im saying have a look around - there are other bikes . The Kawasaki will also bee a good choice. Benelli also do 3 600cc models (using the Yamaha R6 engine), but they are nearly as much as the Hondas - bit cheeky i think , if your trying to break into a new emerging market.

[funcat]

If Yamaha could bring theirs 600cc series bikes here for the competitive 'thai' price,I'll be all over it....but for now,it is still a limited market.

[Wong!]

Honda service has always been spot on, plus I met the chief designer

What was his name?

Mr Naoshi Iizouka. Why?

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

[Wong!]

You are just simply to hooked on honda and having a new bike all the time LL.The options are there in Thailand you just have to go the 2 nd hand route or splash out some real hard cash.

Of coarse the 500 is easy and smooth to ride that's what makes it a good entry level begginer bike.

I'm in the uk and am happy to buy 2nd hand I have no interest in laying out 8 or 10,000 gbp just so I can have the latest model bike.

Yes, you're in the UK so you post is simply a waste of bandwidth.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

[taninthai]

^

Well that's a good contribution ,I see why many stop posting here ,seems to be slot of muppets around with nothing to actually contribute or discuss.

[ktm jeff]

Im in the UK now , but also spend much time in Thailand. Im only giving my views/advice and experience , based on me being in the motor-trade for many years.Hope others dont think im wasting bandwidth. I must correct myself = The Honda CBR 300 has 30 bhp (at the crank) and just under 20 torque.The Honda 500 has 47bhp at the crank (or 43bhp - not 47 as i said - at the wheel (rwbhp). Production has been delayed again , this may be due to vibration problems as this engine has had many problems. CB 500cc range of bikes may be re-called due to the oil pressure problems. They keep going "POP".

Edited May 27, 2014 by nigel jeffrey

[BSJ]

Well fucat, if I were you I would get a loan and then go and buy something really nice! The Versys for instance!

[funcat]

Well fucat, if I were you I would get a loan and then go and buy something really nice! The Versys for instance!

Correct...you are on the right track here...if this was true,I'll jump on this...

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/automotives-vehicles/motorcycles/kawasaki-versys-650cc-275337.html

...but I'm in CM and can't see deals like this here...Yalaaaa!!

(I could even stretch my budget a little(maybe get a loan) ....but this looks 'fishy' to me...and too far...

Edited May 27, 2014 by funcat

[YipYipYa123]

Well fucat, if I were you I would get a loan and then go and buy something really nice! The Versys for instance!

Correct...you are on the right track here...if this was true,I'll jump on this...

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/automotives-vehicles/motorcycles/kawasaki-versys-650cc-275337.html

...but I'm in CM and can't see deals like this here...Yalaaaa!!

(I could even stretch my budget a little(maybe get a loan) ....but this looks 'fishy' to me...and too far...

Suspiciously cheap imo but maybe he needs it sold ASAP etc

[Wong!]

^

Well that's a good contribution ,I see why many stop posting here ,seems to be slot of muppets around with nothing to actually contribute or discuss.

Please enlighten us all to what the 2nd hand bike markets in the UK and Thailand have in common then.

We all know the answer is nothing, but give it a go anyway.

[Wong!]

Im in the UK now , but also spend much time in Thailand. Im only giving my views/advice and experience , based on me being in the motor-trade for many years.Hope others dont think im wasting bandwidth. I must correct myself = The Honda CBR 300 has 30 bhp (at the crank) and just under 20 torque.The Honda 500 has 47bhp at the crank (or 43bhp - not 47 as i said - at the wheel (rwbhp). Production has been delayed again , this may be due to vibration problems as this engine has had many problems. CB 500cc range of bikes may be re-called due to the oil pressure problems. They keep going "POP".

What vibration problem? The Honda 500 engine is one of the smoothest twins on the market. Does that mean all the Kawa twins have been recalled as they're as rough as old nails in comparison?

[ll2]

Looking at the engine graph , 43BHP and 29 torque isnt a lot (and NO , it doesnt have a "power-band" ,that would be shown as peak)but the torque curve is good and OK for around BKK. My concern is the lack of quality (both build and machine)in Hondas over the last few years , and the terrible (dangerous) service from Honda. The cb500 range is priced from 205,000 Baht to 215,000 Baht and that is rather expensive for a run-around. Most everyone agrees the Kawasaki is by far the better bike , better built and not bland or boring , BUT - heres a curve ball - have a look at the brand new Benelli BN 302.It has 37 BHP and 27 NM of torque and uses a Yamaha designed liquid cooled engine (300cc twin - half of the R6 600cc four used in the Benelli BN 600 bikes. As with most Italian bikes it looks amazing. With a Japanese engine , and suspension , brakes and wheels looking like they came from some famous suppliers , and priced at just 139,000 Baht -NEW - its a "no-brainer" over the Honda. Theres plenty of choice out there now , so be careful not to blindly follow the sheep by buying a Honda.

Which dangerous Honda service?

I really dont understand these kind of claims. You have been at one? What makes you think Honda service is dangerous and bad?

I always get a great service, they do always what i want and it is also cheap. No single problems about their service.

So, if you have a bad experience, please share with us so we know.

And Chinese Benelli a no brainer over Honda? It is a 37 hp bike but it is also close to 190 kgs which competition is around 170 kg. So i assume a ninja 300 smoke that bike before 500 series.

I have seen Benelli 302 in real and believe me, it looks so bad quality.

It was looking like it was waiting under sun for years!

I know what you mean about riding in Europe Nigel.

Dont want to speak big but that is why i will never be back on that side of the world. Cold, rain, cops, rules, police, jealous drivers that want to kill you etc.

But millions of options there!

Edited May 28, 2014 by ll2

[ll2]

JonnyF we may have to agree to dis-agree on what we each consider makes an amazing looking bike (if the one you saw had gold forks and black calipers, it was a pre-production model. May i clarify some points , Benelli are an Italian based company and their "big bikes" are still made in Pessaro (Italy) with their bikes for "Asia" being made in China. The 300/600 range of engines was designed by Yamaha , and as you correctly say , bought in (to save development costs). I could/should have made it clearer on the power /torque , but i did say "looking at the engine graph".The "at the crank" power of tho Honde is 47BHP (rwhp). So yes , some HP short , although i think the 37 BHP of the Benelli (may-be 33 RWHP) is plenty for its designed use. Always nice to improve though - yes!.

But bikes made for Europe has better components than bikes they make for Asia.

ANd Benelli is a Chinese company.

[BlackArtemis]

I sold my Ninja about an hour ago. I still say get a Ninja, more power, better brakes, and looks 1000x better. Honda's new 650 finally looks decent, but it's out of your price range. There are TONS of er6 series bikes for sale. Cm-club, dealfish, and mocyc.com are your friends!

[ll2]

Im in the UK now , but also spend much time in Thailand. Im only giving my views/advice and experience , based on me being in the motor-trade for many years.Hope others dont think im wasting bandwidth. I must correct myself = The Honda CBR 300 has 30 bhp (at the crank) and just under 20 torque.The Honda 500 has 47bhp at the crank (or 43bhp - not 47 as i said - at the wheel (rwbhp). Production has been delayed again , this may be due to vibration problems as this engine has had many problems. CB 500cc range of bikes may be re-called due to the oil pressure problems. They keep going "POP".

speculations and speculations.

first bad honda service. now Honda is bad quality, have vibrations and engines posing up.

Yet, you never owned one and rode one possibly.

I can say Kawasaki engine is also famous for blowing up and chassis is famous to be so fragile. Search the forum. But no, these cases are just one in ten thousand so it is so normal to have some glitches on some bikes.

Sorry Nigel, but you are just speculating here from UK.

^ Have to agree with all that.

You start to suspect that there is someone paid by Honda to spam on here.

you were claiming a bad honda service. The one you wanted to hit the mechanics.

it sounds to me a like a case of a ting tong angry farang shouting at Bigwing and of course receive not a prefect service.

I am sure they were still kind enough not to kick you out of their shop.

Just tell us what happened. if you cannot you are the one spamming.

Look, i am passing real experience here. I owned a cbr500r and rode kawa er series many times. I am not speculating. Just trying to give some real insight to the OP.

But what i see here is many people just speculating from their a..ses and most did not even ride a cbr500r or a kawa er in their lives.

[taninthai]

Ll you used to be quite a good poster on here but you seem to have come down with big bike syndrome,I don't know but nowadays you come across as some one who is noob to biking ,you sure that cbr 250 was not your first ever bike.i just don't see someone who has claimed to own a cbr 600 rr heaping so much praise on an underpowered 250cc machine.

Yes a lot of your posts are informative but all this honda fanboy crap does get boring.

P.s coming from a honda owner for last 12 years.

[ll2]

Ll you used to be quite a good poster on here but you seem to have come down with big bike syndrome,I don't know but nowadays you come across as some one who is noob to biking ,you sure that cbr 250 was not your first ever bike.i just don't see someone who has claimed to own a cbr 600 rr heaping so much praise on an underpowered 250cc machine.

Yes a lot of your posts are informative but all this honda fanboy crap does get boring.

P.s coming from a honda owner for last 12 years.

yeah yeah fan boy etc.

tanin, you are just talking like a noob, faster is better, bigger is better more cc is better?

c'mon man, only noobs think that way and dont get surprised if someone on a cbr250r smokes your supersport my friend!

we buy bikes for many reasons. fun, needs, our etc.

cbr600rr is a good bike but cbr250r too in its own way. Of course you cannot understand that i guess. Even my rusty old Honda wave is fun to ride and has some nice ways i cannot find on a supersport such as being a sturdy light do it all bike with slim tires.

of course i dont expect you to understand this.

i dont expect you to understand why people buy 250 cc bikes? Why we have Moto 3 races? and many other.

But in the meantime, you were riding a 250 cc bike here when you were in Thailand so you contradict with yourself.

My words here is for people who never rode these bikes speculating from their asses like you. OP is asking a valid question and i pass my experience as i rode both these bikes.

But you are not posting here something constructive and telling us second hand bikes in UK and how cheap they are and how bad a low cc bike.

just contribute here Tanin but sorry, you still could not fully realize what is motorcycling what i can understand from your words.

Edited May 28, 2014 by ll2

[BlackArtemis]

Let's stop the bitching and help find this guy a bike.

Btw, at Kawa they forgot to sign my maintenance manual at 18000km. Then one time they forgot to fill up my coolant and another time to change the spark plugs. I started to read the list off to them each service and had Pekky Superbikes do my oil. When it was time for 24000km Kawa told me to wait 3 weeks (not their fault). They need a lot more garages because they've sold a ton of bikes up here in CM....

BTW, Suzuki will let you test ride all their new 650's.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mania]

Yes getting back on topic I was wondering.....

Funcat.....You never really said what your intended usage

would be for this bike.

Just out of curiosity what type of riding will you be

mainly using this bike for?

Are you more of a ride for fun/sport type? Looking for the roads

with the most twists per mile

Or

Is it an all around bike to be used as a daily ride & touring type of ride?

I think many times folks who ask how is X-Brand bike really need to throw that info out there

as it helps folks answering know whether their own experiences with

X brand bike is even relevant to the OP

So..... if you dont mind my asking

Edited May 28, 2014 by mania

[taninthai]

Ll you used to be quite a good poster on here but you seem to have come down with big bike syndrome,I don't know but nowadays you come across as some one who is noob to biking ,you sure that cbr 250 was not your first ever bike.i just don't see someone who has claimed to own a cbr 600 rr heaping so much praise on an underpowered 250cc machine.

Yes a lot of your posts are informative but all this honda fanboy crap does get boring.

P.s coming from a honda owner for last 12 years.

yeah yeah fan boy etc.

tanin, you are just talking like a noob, faster is better, bigger is better more cc is better?

c'mon man, only noobs think that way and dont get surprised if someone on a cbr250r smokes your supersport my friend!

we buy bikes for many reasons. fun, needs, our etc.

cbr600rr is a good bike but cbr250r too in its own way. Of course you cannot understand that i guess. Even my rusty old Honda wave is fun to ride and has some nice ways i cannot find on a supersport such as being a sturdy light do it all bike with slim tires.

of course i dont expect you to understand this.

i dont expect you to understand why people buy 250 cc bikes? Why we have Moto 3 races? and many other.

But in the meantime, you were riding a 250 cc bike here when you were in Thailand so you contradict with yourself.

My words here is for people who never rode these bikes speculating from their asses like you. OP is asking a valid question and i pass my experience as i rode both these bikes.

But you are not posting here something constructive and telling us second hand bikes in UK and how cheap they are and how bad a low cc bike.

just contribute here Tanin but sorry, you still could not fully realize what is motorcycling what i can understand from your words.

well considering you have been banned from here 2 or 3 times coupled with People posting pretty spitefully stuff about you last week it's obviously not just me that finds this honda fanboy boring , you now remind of a similiar poster that used to do the same with Kawasaki

[funcat]

Yes getting back on topic I was wondering.....

Funcat.....You never really said what your intended usage

would be for this bike.

Just out of curiosity what type of riding will you be

mainly using this bike for?

Are you more of a ride for fun/sport type? Looking for the roads

with the most twists per mile

Or

Is it an all around bike to be used as a daily ride & touring type of ride?

I think many times folks who ask how is X-Brand bike really need to throw that info out there

as it helps folks answering know whether their own experiences with

X brand bike is even relevant to the OP

So..... if you dont mind my asking

I live in Mae Rim,some 15km outside the city,so it's mostly for fun,short trips etc...not enough experience to do any 'sporty' stuff,but would like to get there one day...but for now,mostly FUN

[Familyonthemove]

Yes getting back on topic I was wondering.....

Funcat.....You never really said what your intended usage

would be for this bike.

Just out of curiosity what type of riding will you be

mainly using this bike for?

Are you more of a ride for fun/sport type? Looking for the roads

with the most twists per mile

Or

Is it an all around bike to be used as a daily ride & touring type of ride?

I think many times folks who ask how is X-Brand bike really need to throw that info out there

as it helps folks answering know whether their own experiences with

X brand bike is even relevant to the OP

So..... if you dont mind my asking

I live in Mae Rim,some 15km outside the city,so it's mostly for fun,short trips etc...not enough experience to do any 'sporty' stuff,but would like to get there one day...but for now,mostly FUN

In that case you were on the right lines originally .... the Kawasaki 650 would be the better choice because the Honda 500 leans more towards practicality.

Both are good bikes - but in my view the Honda designers target rider would place more priority on practicality and ease of riding whereas the Kawasaki is a bit more performance biased. The extra weight of the Kawasaki is really only an issue if you live in central Bangkok ...... or have very weak legs!

But be a bit reserved in the pursuit of fun as both the 500 and the 650 can get you into trouble fast on Thai roads.

[mania]

I live in Mae Rim,some 15km outside the city,so it's mostly for fun,short trips etc...

not enough experience to do any 'sporty' stuff,but would like to get there one day...but for now,mostly FUN

Cool that is a good area close to fun riding

I use to pass thru there often on my way back from the Samoeng Loop

These days I ride from the other end ( Hang Dong )till the elephant camp

then turn & go back the same way.

More fun as that section is the most technical

& also Mae Rim has had a lot of road work going on the last few times I passed thru.

Since fun is your goal I would still personally lean towards the Ninja

Not that I'm sure you couldn't also have fun on the 500

But for the fun sporty type riding the 50% better power to weight of the Ninja

coupled with the 38% higher bore/stroke ratio makes it the better ride .....

All just IMHO & what I would choose & why

Final decision should be yours via a test ride of both in the type of ride

you most often do.

Good Luck

[ll2]

Ll you used to be quite a good poster on here but you seem to have come down with big bike syndrome,I don't know but nowadays you come across as some one who is noob to biking ,you sure that cbr 250 was not your first ever bike.i just don't see someone who has claimed to own a cbr 600 rr heaping so much praise on an underpowered 250cc machine.

Yes a lot of your posts are informative but all this honda fanboy crap does get boring.

P.s coming from a honda owner for last 12 years.

yeah yeah fan boy etc.

tanin, you are just talking like a noob, faster is better, bigger is better more cc is better?

c'mon man, only noobs think that way and dont get surprised if someone on a cbr250r smokes your supersport my friend!

we buy bikes for many reasons. fun, needs, our etc.

cbr600rr is a good bike but cbr250r too in its own way. Of course you cannot understand that i guess. Even my rusty old Honda wave is fun to ride and has some nice ways i cannot find on a supersport such as being a sturdy light do it all bike with slim tires.

of course i dont expect you to understand this.

i dont expect you to understand why people buy 250 cc bikes? Why we have Moto 3 races? and many other.

But in the meantime, you were riding a 250 cc bike here when you were in Thailand so you contradict with yourself.

My words here is for people who never rode these bikes speculating from their asses like you. OP is asking a valid question and i pass my experience as i rode both these bikes.

But you are not posting here something constructive and telling us second hand bikes in UK and how cheap they are and how bad a low cc bike.

just contribute here Tanin but sorry, you still could not fully realize what is motorcycling what i can understand from your words.

well considering you have been banned from here 2 or 3 times coupled with People posting pretty spitefully stuff about you last week it's obviously not just me that finds this honda fanboy boring , you now remind of a similiar poster that used to do the same with Kawasaki

Tanin, world is full of incompetent idiots with no life and posting is free here. So now you support trolls and spammers? C'mon man!

I dont take them serious and no one here.

Hope you are not one of those guys!

And check my posts, i am not exaggerating honda but i like Honda but you piss on it without even riding one in your life or others speculate like bad service etc

especially weirdo with black cbr250r speaking lies here without owning one.

if someone is bored, we have ignore button.

and if you are bored, you can sign up for some interesting bike forums in UK, no???

you said 'you said what you need to say' but it is not the case, you go deeper into the spiral of nonsense. please turn back to the topic.

I live in Mae Rim,some 15km outside the city,so it's mostly for fun,short trips etc...not enough experience to do any 'sporty' stuff,but would like to get there one day...but for now,mostly FUN

Both bikes can fit you well for your location.

If you are experienced, get kawa er6f with more power and if you are new, get 500 series as they are also enough fast like kawa and a lot forgiving and smooth.

And, If you will be doing track days which they have opened a track up in Chiang Rai so get kawa er6f sure if that will be the case.

For the nice curves up there, a nimble and light 500 series can be a lot of fun too with less petrol to burn as well.

Still, if i were you there, i go buy kawasaki er6f.

[taninthai]

ll I never support trolls and think the post last week was well out of order.

I think you just get over excited in some of your posts,don't know how much experience you have riding outside Thailand,but I think some of your comments especially like the one about 500cc keeping up with litre bikes will get more experienced bikers backs up,aswell as comments like or you have never ridden one,people that have been riding inline 4 600cc or 1000cc for 10-15 years do not need to ride a 500cc they already know what sort of power it has.

Nothing personal just like to speak my mind and call it how I see it.

All friends here I'm now of to get my bike mot tested,take it easy.

[ll2]

ll I never support trolls and think the post last week was well out of order.

I think you just get over excited in some of your posts,don't know how much experience you have riding outside Thailand,but I think some of your comments especially like the one about 500cc keeping up with litre bikes will get more experienced bikers backs up,aswell as comments like or you have never ridden one,people that have been riding inline 4 600cc or 1000cc for 10-15 years do not need to ride a 500cc they already know what sort of power it has.

Nothing personal just like to speak my mind and call it how I see it.

All friends here I'm now of to get my bike mot tested,take it easy.

tanin, it is OK man. Think whatever you want.

I said what I need to say.

Lets stay in topic.

[brfsa2]

jezzz, a really new Versys under 10000KM for 180K THB. shit, I feel really stupid now paying more for the new CB500F.