Suthep freed on bail for charges relating to 2010 killings

[maxme]

Suthep missed an earlier court appearance on the same charges as he was busy leading the anti-government campaign !!!

alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> Too busy ??? Leading an anti- government campaign can not be an excuse. Not for 6 months ......

Amazing Thailand: it starts with the people !!

Only charged. He will not be convicted as you know there is no evidence to support the charges.

I agree with you that eh will not be convicted, but not because there is no evidence. There is ample evidence, but because the courts will be told by the RE not t convict him.

you know this for a fact.that there is ample evidence...you really really know this...prove it on here now khun....http://static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/

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Wasn't it in the papers?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Prbkk]

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Suthep missed an earlier court appearance on the same charges as he was busy leading the anti-government campaign !!!

alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> Too busy ??? Leading an anti- government campaign can not be an excuse. Not for 6 months ......

Amazing Thailand: it starts with the people !!

Only charged. He will not be convicted as you know there is no evidence to support the charges.

I agree with you that eh will not be convicted, but not because there is no evidence. There is ample evidence, but because the courts will be told by the RE not t convict him.

What would you charge him with? Both him and Abhisit acted within law. It wasn't their fault that some deluded and mislead red shirt supporters have taken arms against their own state. 2010 wasn't a peaceful protest, it was well organized armed uprising led by a renegade general.

...including the unarmed people sheltering in a temple.? Eight dead

[stickyrice2000]

I wonder if Pongpat is directing this show for Suthep. LOL

[lungmi]

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Karma can be a bitch but it always get's ya, if not this time, next time

Not only for you, many posters speak about kamma with the highest ignorance possible. Not only Farang, Thai People

too.

For former instructions read this

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/good_evil_beyond.pdf

Too lazy? Than close your mouth about "kamma" and try to learn.

[Just1Voice]

Regardless of the Prosecutors, I doubt the court would have issued the indictments unless there was sufficient evidence to do so.

[wolf5370]

But only charged from documents lodged by a crooked DSI under Tarit/Thaksin.

When the Judges see the lack of evidence, Tarit will be arrested for issuing falsified charges.

So, what you are saying is that now of these Thai people dies in the Army Crackdown??? Someone ordered the Crackdown!!! Unless you think that some 150 army soldiers took it upon themselves to open fire. If not the government at the time in control, that would be Abhisit and Suthep - then someone in the upper ranks of the Army took it upon themselves - Anupong Paochinda or Prayuth Chan-ocha (as he supported the crackdown).

But not to worry - as Thailand still can not take a single member of the PAD group to court for shutting down the airports - postponed again until December

They do not have to "take it upon themselves" the order just needs to be defensive in nature as opposed to offensive - an order such as "shoot any apparently armed protestor" would be offensive, and order of "shoot only to protect yourselves and your comrades" would be defensive. A soldier is not obliged to sit still and be blown to pieces or shot to death, like anyone else, they have a right to defend themselves. Trying to make it black and white is an attempt to make a lie out of a situation by forcing an answer that ill-fits a description of what happened. Being under live fire attack is not a black and white situation - and commanders on the ground can take control to protect their men - and rightly so.

The case, therefore, can only be, two fold: Was there an offensive order given; and did any soldiers act inappropriately : open fire when they (or their comrades) were not directly under threat or shoot unarmed or innocent protestors.

The former would constitute a righteous charge of officially mandated murder; the later would be down to the soldier involved.

IMO there is no evidence of the former - or it would have been aired long ago - and there is no interest in pursuing the latter (though that is the mostly likely scenario if any wrong doing was done at all wrt the army).

[Fat Haggis]

If there was no "evidence" to convict, do you honestly think a judiciary would carry out indictments? Any judge prescribing over such cases will already have been presented with said "evidence" otherwise he'd throw them out for LACK of it!!.

He's not going to waste the courts time carrying out such a high profile case/trial if there wasn't any evidence, kind of like throwing a big party but knowing nobody's going to turn up!!

There's enough evidence to have had the case submitted to the courts in the first place, to say there isn't any, well... is just pretty stupid really. The fact Abhisit has already been up to hear the charges, would tend to lend some credibility that the judge has the evidence, an enough of it to proceed don't you think?

[wolf5370]

Regardless of the Prosecutors, I doubt the court would have issued the indictments unless there was sufficient evidence to do so.

There only has to be evidence to suspect that their may be a case to answer - not evidence per se. That is left to the case proper for obvious reasons. In this case it would be quite easy to show a potential evidence thread from accused to potentially unlawful death - they were in charge of the government, army works for the state and are under their directorship (not direct command, but over all control), deaths occurred, evidence that some killings may have be unjustified given statements from the public. The court could not throw that out - it would have to go to trial - which it has. That does not mean their is credible evidence or enough evidence to prove the thread all the way down. That is what a court case is for. Not everyone indicted is guilty; a court will only throw our frivolous claims where there is no credible evidential thread at all.

The truth of the matter is that if there was evidence against these two, compelling evidence not rumour and hearsay, then it would have been leaked to the press already to undermine them - especially Suthep. Yet for all the repeats about his pending murder case, nothing else other than that fact has materialised, that should tell you all you need to know about the evidence of this case.

[Fat Haggis]

But only charged from documents lodged by a crooked DSI under Tarit/Thaksin.

When the Judges see the lack of evidence, Tarit will be arrested for issuing falsified charges.

So, what you are saying is that now of these Thai people dies in the Army Crackdown??? Someone ordered the Crackdown!!! Unless you think that some 150 army soldiers took it upon themselves to open fire. If not the government at the time in control, that would be Abhisit and Suthep - then someone in the upper ranks of the Army took it upon themselves - Anupong Paochinda or Prayuth Chan-ocha (as he supported the crackdown).

But not to worry - as Thailand still can not take a single member of the PAD group to court for shutting down the airports - postponed again until December

They do not have to "take it upon themselves" the order just needs to be defensive in nature as opposed to offensive - an order such as "shoot any apparently armed protestor" would be offensive, and order of "shoot only to protect yourselves and your comrades" would be defensive. A soldier is not obliged to sit still and be blown to pieces or shot to death, like anyone else, they have a right to defend themselves. Trying to make it black and white is an attempt to make a lie out of a situation by forcing an answer that ill-fits a description of what happened. Being under live fire attack is not a black and white situation - and commanders on the ground can take control to protect their men - and rightly so.

The case, therefore, can only be, two fold: Was there an offensive order given; and did any soldiers act inappropriately : open fire when they (or their comrades) were not directly under threat or shoot unarmed or innocent protestors.

The former would constitute a righteous charge of officially mandated murder; the later would be down to the soldier involved.

IMO there is no evidence of the former - or it would have been aired long ago - and there is no interest in pursuing the latter (though that is the mostly likely scenario if any wrong doing was done at all wrt the army).

Actually the Army were given "rules of engagement" which most military forces operate under, followed by the "Laws of Armed Combat", and many other useless pieces of legislation.

The ROE's are always worded to provide the soldier on the ground protection should he find himself in a hostile situation, there are very clear rules within the ROE's, and I believe there's a copy of the ROE's from 2010 available online, the Army in this instance where the ROE's were "abused" are immune from prosecution, so just like the rice scheme, and who was accountable, the court action is being directed to those at the top, if you think that this is stupid and grossly unfair, then you have to apply the same logic over Yingluck's abysmal handling of the rice scheme fiasco. And in these cases, the accountability is at the top.

The court case isn't just about the rules, it's about the legality of setting up the so called "free fire" zones and whether these came under the same ROE's and who actually authorised them. And as I have already said, the Army were given immunity, so there will be no charges placed at their door, so it's natural to pursue those who gave the orders, and whether they were documented, written and countersigned, and if either Suthep or Abhisit's signature is on any documents pertaining to the Military action, they're going to have a tough old time of it.

[wolf5370]

If there was no "evidence" to convict, do you honestly think a judiciary would carry out indictments? Any judge prescribing over such cases will already have been presented with said "evidence" otherwise he'd throw them out for LACK of it!!.

He's not going to waste the courts time carrying out such a high profile case/trial if there wasn't any evidence, kind of like throwing a big party but knowing nobody's going to turn up!!

There's enough evidence to have had the case submitted to the courts in the first place, to say there isn't any, well... is just pretty stupid really. The fact Abhisit has already been up to hear the charges, would tend to lend some credibility that the judge has the evidence, an enough of it to proceed don't you think?

Please see my post above

[city]

Hands up if you think Suthep will see any further court dates in relation to these charges

[wolf5370]

But only charged from documents lodged by a crooked DSI under Tarit/Thaksin.

When the Judges see the lack of evidence, Tarit will be arrested for issuing falsified charges.

So, what you are saying is that now of these Thai people dies in the Army Crackdown??? Someone ordered the Crackdown!!! Unless you think that some 150 army soldiers took it upon themselves to open fire. If not the government at the time in control, that would be Abhisit and Suthep - then someone in the upper ranks of the Army took it upon themselves - Anupong Paochinda or Prayuth Chan-ocha (as he supported the crackdown).

But not to worry - as Thailand still can not take a single member of the PAD group to court for shutting down the airports - postponed again until December

They do not have to "take it upon themselves" the order just needs to be defensive in nature as opposed to offensive - an order such as "shoot any apparently armed protestor" would be offensive, and order of "shoot only to protect yourselves and your comrades" would be defensive. A soldier is not obliged to sit still and be blown to pieces or shot to death, like anyone else, they have a right to defend themselves. Trying to make it black and white is an attempt to make a lie out of a situation by forcing an answer that ill-fits a description of what happened. Being under live fire attack is not a black and white situation - and commanders on the ground can take control to protect their men - and rightly so.

The case, therefore, can only be, two fold: Was there an offensive order given; and did any soldiers act inappropriately : open fire when they (or their comrades) were not directly under threat or shoot unarmed or innocent protestors.

The former would constitute a righteous charge of officially mandated murder; the later would be down to the soldier involved.

IMO there is no evidence of the former - or it would have been aired long ago - and there is no interest in pursuing the latter (though that is the mostly likely scenario if any wrong doing was done at all wrt the army).

Actually the Army were given "rules of engagement" which most military forces operate under, followed by the "Laws of Armed Combat", and many other useless pieces of legislation.

The ROE's are always worded to provide the soldier on the ground protection should he find himself in a hostile situation, there are very clear rules within the ROE's, and I believe there's a copy of the ROE's from 2010 available online, the Army in this instance where the ROE's were "abused" are immune from prosecution, so just like the rice scheme, and who was accountable, the court action is being directed to those at the top, if you think that this is stupid and grossly unfair, then you have to apply the same logic over Yingluck's abysmal handling of the rice scheme fiasco. And in these cases, the accountability is at the top.

The court case isn't just about the rules, it's about the legality of setting up the so called "free fire" zones and whether these came under the same ROE's and who actually authorised them. And as I have already said, the Army were given immunity, so there will be no charges placed at their door, so it's natural to pursue those who gave the orders, and whether they were documented, written and countersigned, and if either Suthep or Abhisit's signature is on any documents pertaining to the Military action, they're going to have a tough old time of it.

Yes I know about ROE - and I know you do too - I was trying to be explanatory by breaking down what those ROE incorporated. If the army outs an electric fence around its barracks and says do not touch - is it their fault if someone intentionally defies them and is shocked? How about a mine field to protect a secure area? The free fire zones were not secrets - they were set up to stop further attacks on the soldiers and were behind other barriers. They were sign posted. If people still break through the lines and enter the free fire zones, there can be only one reason, to attack the soldiers beyond - there must be an element of self blame here (misadventure). These were not peaceful protestors - peaceful protestors had no cause to have broken through the military lines and entered such a zone.

PS: Do you honestly believe that they will get a hard time in court for allowing the army to protect itself and providing immunity from the fallout of doing so, whilst under a military junta?

[wolf5370]

Hands up if you think Suthep will see any further court dates in relation to these charges

Oh I think he most certainly will. I think the sedition charges may even stick - probably leading to a sizeable fine and ban from politics.

[FangFerang]

TIT. The guilty are not always prosecuted, the innocent are often jailed. The voice of justice, quiet and steady, is drowned out by the rhetoric on all sides. People wave banners and pretend to know all outcomes, and turn blind eyes to the guilt of their friends. Whereas their perceived enemies, who like their imaginary friends know them not, are sloughed off and a reason is called for a false progress that is all inertia. It is, they cry, all for a greater good...

The gavel bangs like a punchline. The crowds cheer the right people for the wrong reasons, and the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

"Things fall apart, the center cannot hold....Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world..." [W.B. Yeats]

Edited May 26, 2014 by FangFerang

[Fat Haggis]

thanks Wolf, I disagree that if there was evidence it would have been leaked to the press, simply because it would mean that there could never be a fair trial, many cases all over the globe have collapsed due to "evidence" being leaked, and become inadmissible, as the defendant would never get a fair trial.

The evidence is suppressed from the media for reasons, it's down to the jury to decide the defendants fate, based on the evidence presented during the trial, and they have to decide between them if there's enough evidence to convict.

Now that the Military is in charge, it's not going to be so easy either, it's a no civilian affair, this could very well be dealt with by a military tribunal, you may also find that there may have to be a scapegoat, for the good of the people..so that they see that some form of justice has been served, and again, the publics faith and trust in the military will increase.. I would not be surprised if we see Suthep taking the fall on this one, he may escape a prison sentence, and justice will have seen to be served, who knows, but I think as well that his attitude of "I'm too busy trying to bring a regime down" and failing to appear might not have been a smart thing to do, no man should be above the law, even those who make them.

[thumper101]

He won't be doing a single minute in prison.... All charges will be dropped for lack of evidence. This is all pre planned between him and the military anyway.

Suthep ends up getting everything he fought for and retires with a big smile.

[Canada]

How long do you think 600,000 baht will keep him in the country? My guess is that it's a drop in the bucket for him.

[TallPalm]

You're not smiling, you're not smiling, you're not smiling anymore! You're not smiling anymore!

[TallPalm]

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Suthep missed an earlier court appearance on the same charges as he was busy leading the anti-government campaign !!!

alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> Too busy ??? Leading an anti- government campaign can not be an excuse. Not for 6 months ......

Amazing Thailand: it starts with the people !!

Only charged. He will not be convicted as you know there is no evidence to support the charges.

I agree with you that eh will not be convicted, but not because there is no evidence. There is ample evidence, but because the courts will be told by the RE not t convict him.

What would you charge him with? Both him and Abhisit acted within law. It wasn't their fault that some deluded and mislead red shirt supporters have taken arms against their own state. 2010 wasn't a peaceful protest, it was well organized armed uprising led by a renegade general.

...including the unarmed people sheltering in a temple.? Eight dead

...and those rounded up and surrounded in the streets shot at if they tried to escape after being trapped there for days with no food, water or sanitation. Oh + the assination of Seh Daeng

[Mackie]

...and those rounded up and surrounded in the streets shot at if they tried to escape after being trapped there for days with no food, water or sanitation. Oh + the assination of Seh Daeng

Silly people. What's all of that to do with Abhisit and Suthep. It's not their responsibility. The martial law and the state of emergency were declared. Whoever was there had more than enough time to move out of the area. They chose not to. Perhaps they shouldn't have listened to their deluded leaders Jatuporn and Nattawut. They would've been alive today.

Once again, your falsehoods and shameless dishonesty need to be challenged by proper sources.

Descent into Chaos

Thailand’s 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown

Web Site Address: http://www.hrw.org

...The “safe zone” at the temple was not in a very safe location. Wat Phatum Wanaram is very close to the Central World shopping complex, which Red Shirt arsonists were torching at the same time as crowds were fleeing into the temple. Throughout the afternoon and evening of May 19, sporadic gunfire and clashes took place in the immediate vicinity of the temple.

Several foreign journalists said they saw UDD militants, some of them armed, on the street outside the temple between 2 and 4 p.m. that day. One photojournalist described running into a group of armed militants: Just before 4 o’clock, I went to Henri Dunant Road near the Paragon Shopping

Center. There were three or four Black Shirts there next to some tires and they threw something, plus there was shooting taking place. It was too dangerous

to stay there so I left. They had weapons, I didn’t see what kind. They were also being shot at, so they were taking cover. They were being shot at from

the direction of the road.187

Another foreign videographer told Human Rights Watch: “Hardcore elements were outside the temple, including some big guy whose body was later among those [found] inside the temple—I saw him outside the temple.”188 Another journalist told Human Rights Watch that “between the temple and Central World there were some tough guys, the type of people I didn’t want to be around.”189

At least two separate gunfights took place around Wat Pathum Wanaram, one starting around 4 p.m. and a second, more intense exchange of gunfire that began around 5:30 or 6 p.m. Andy Buncome, a journalist for the Independent newspaper, witnessed two major

shooting incidents at the temple:

Around lunch time, the Red Shirt leaders said that it was all over, and asked people to go home. I went out again and probably got to the temple around

3:30 to 4 p.m. Things were calm then, but tense. Some of the malls had been set on fire.…Then we heard very clear shooting. Other reporters said that the

troops and Red Shirts were shooting at each other....

[AloisAmrein]

They should put him in jail instead free him on bail. He is one of the main responsibles for the actual misery and the demolition of democracy.

[AloisAmrein]

They should put him in jail instead free him on bail. He is one of the main responsibles for the actual misery and the demolition of democracy.

[Luk Mhee]

As can be clearly seen, there is no favouritism, and no vendettas here, all perpetrators will be hunted down, caught and punished for their wrong doings. True justice will prevail, and be a model for many countries.

[anteater]

As can be clearly seen, there is no favouritism, and no vendettas here, all perpetrators will be hunted down, caught and punished for their wrong doings. True justice will prevail, and be a model for many countries.

*Lovely lovely coup.

Yes indeed. We are now living in the ideal society. I confidently expect that the USA, France, the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, India, Australia, NZ, Brazil etc etc will follow this example, suspending democracy and telling citizens that they must follow the orders of an unelected junta. I am absolutely sure that these citizens will flock to join this movement. Here's my suggested slogan, but maybe my ThaiVisa colleagues can suggest a better one:

"Coup is You!"

*Lovely lovely coup.

[Baerboxer]

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Suthep missed an earlier court appearance on the same charges as he was busy leading the anti-government campaign !!!

alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> alt=w00t.gif> Too busy ??? Leading an anti- government campaign can not be an excuse. Not for 6 months ......

Amazing Thailand: it starts with the people !!

Only charged. He will not be convicted as you know there is no evidence to support the charges.

I agree with you that eh will not be convicted, but not because there is no evidence. There is ample evidence, but because the courts will be told by the RE not t convict him.

Wow - you've been allowed to review the evidence by the AG prior to the trial.

You must be really well connected - or just lying and spouting nonsense?

[Baerboxer]

As can be clearly seen, there is no favouritism, and no vendettas here, all perpetrators will be hunted down, caught and punished for their wrong doings. True justice will prevail, and be a model for many countries.

*Lovely lovely coup.

Yes indeed. We are now living in the ideal society. I confidently expect that the USA, France, the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, India, Australia, NZ, Brazil etc etc will follow this example, suspending democracy and telling citizens that they must follow the orders of an unelected junta. I am absolutely sure that these citizens will flock to join this movement. Here's my suggested slogan, but maybe my ThaiVisa colleagues can suggest a better one:

"Coup is You!"

*Lovely lovely coup.

The you will be a disappointed but confident anteater then.

I confidently expect that none of the countries you mention would allow a government in office to lie,cheat and act dishonestly whilst being openly controlled by a convicted criminal fugitive.

I bet I stand more chance of being right than you,

[Basil B]

How long do you think 600,000 baht will keep him in the country? My guess is that it's a drop in the bucket for him.

I am certain on the murder charges he and Abhisit will walk as soon as a judge sees the trumped up evidence.

All the PTP have done is set a precedence so when links are established with the red thugs who have killed peaceful protesters the leaders of the PTP and red shirts will charged with murder and as there is already a suggestion of the man in Dubai setting up a government in exile I do not think they will get bail so easy, if at all.

[stickyrice2000]

Trust me. Nothing is going to happen to Suthep and his gang. The army is on the same side with them. This is just a show. This is their definition of the word 'neutral'. Just wait and see.

[pmugghc]

600,000 baht is petty cash to Suthep. It's amazing how low the bail is for the 'hi-so' Thais no matter how serious the charge is. Whenever a Farang has to post bail it's several million..

There are probably legal maximums and guidelines for bail. A foreigner is a greater flight risk, and often impossible to extradite if they go to their home country - hence the greater bail amount. A Thais passport can be cancelled and their assets frozen, and family/friends used for relocating a run away. Common sense really.

Really? Common sense? How do you think the families of the victims feel?

A person's life in Thailand apparently has a value. This value for a life has been set by the court to be 600,000 / 98, or approximately 6,122 Baht (US$200) each.

So go tell each of the families that their deceased loved one is worth a mere pittance. Let's see how common sense is greeted then.

IMO, the court erred (again, as usual) by granting bail.

I think you're clueless about Thai law.

[pmugghc]

They should put him in jail instead free him on bail. He is one of the main responsibles for the actual misery and the demolition of democracy.

Based on exactly what Thai law? You're just ignorant!