Problem getting deposit back on apartment - advice needed

[KevWaters]

Hello,

I am a 29 year old Teacher who moved into an apartment (Vee House) in Central Phrae with my Thai wife last month. We were told that we could stay the night for 450baht or 3500baht per month. We decided to unload our car that night as it was late at night and go with the option of staying for at least a month. Although she is far from fluent, the landlady understands English and she would have known our intentions.

She asked my partner how long I will be teaching at the school in this City, and she replied perhaps it would be around 12 months. She later written this onto the contract for the apartment without our consent.

We are approaching the end of our month now and the landlady has known for the last 2 weeks that we are will be moving into a house at the end of the month. Yesterday (3 says before expiration) she stated to my partner that she will keep my 3500 deposit as we haven't stayed for at least 3 months. This minimum term was never mentioned previously, and is not in the contract. However, she just keeps saying "rules are rules", and "it is the same everywhere in Thailand".

I told her that she has an obligation to tell people before signing the contract whether there is a minimum term. I also told her off for contracting three other "farang" teachers on minimum terms without even explaining the Thai written contract to them. Her answer was, I will do that now (1 month after they have signed it!), but she THINKS they will stay 6 months. "THINKS!!!" How ridiculous.

I've tried talking with her and told her that we are moving out into a house share to reduce our costs and I can't afford to give her 3,500 baht (either way I'm not that generous). She said she would forfeit the electricity bill (800 baht) and water charges, but wont refund my deposit as "rules are rules". She keeps phoning my heavily pregnant wife bothering her when I've told her not to, as this is my money and not her concern. She told my wife that if I call again she will withdraw her offer and ask for the bills to be paid.

What do you think I should do? I'm due to move out today.

I've had some horribly aggressive thoughts over the last week and it is really bothering me. More so, because I can see it is upsetting my pregnant wife and I'm worried about the impact it may have on our baby. An easy answer is to let it go, but the money would be useful after the wedding and before the birth. Also, if I let this slide she will just keep doing this to other people.

I've told her that I'm keeping the key until I get my money. As we are now living in the house instead (after today) I expect her to change the locks to the apartment. In this event I will probably break the lock as I want to get access to it at the very least if I am still paying for it. I've even had thoughts of just taking the 7,000 baht fridge freezer and 1,000 baht tv and just selling it to recover the deposit amount.

Alternatively, I have thought about sending her a "letter before claim" and issuing a claim. The annoying thing is that if this were in England this would be easy work for me as I was a lawyer back there. Over here I have no more of an idea about the legal framework than anyone else.

Advice needed (I did post something in the "Ask a lawyer" section, but I can see that not all of the posts get answered and also I can't post additional comments/updates on the situation).

Thanks

[ThaidDown]

First, to state something that you have realised yourself, you are not in the UK any more.

Second for you to ' break in and steal things' would be dumb. You said that she knows where you work, and there could be criminal charges, nice for your pregnant wife to deal with.

If you cannot get satisfaction from the landlord then a civil action would be the only legal way forward. for the amount involved, 3500 baht less electric/water would not be worth it.

You could report her to the revenue department if you think she is not declaring her rental income. But it will probably get back as to who did the reporting.

Edit to add...for info there is no 'small claims court' in Thailand

Edited May 27, 2014 by ThaidDown

[TobiasML]

In my experience you could file a claim at the court. But until you have made the court has decided anything it will probably take years. I know it is annoying but I would just let it go. Principle or not. Take the loss of the 2000, let her pay for the utilities and let it go.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BobbyL]

Be thankful it's only potentially 2k, that's only a weekend night out.

I know someone who got wrongly screwed out of 22k.

[Evilbaz]

So, a lawyer, entertains actions of theft. A farang in Thailand.!

<deleted> - are you having defacto hormonal swings.?

[Hedghog]

OP.

Just move on.

Forget about the miniscule financial loss.

Its not even the price of a good night out.

[Kwasaki]

Welcome to Thailand.

Forget it and move on you've just been done by a nasty person not all landlords are like that.

Whether something signed or not, Electric and water bills leave you with a 1000 plus loss not worth worrying about.

[chrisinth]

If you enter a legal battle for this, you will end up paying more for sure. Writing it off, IMHO, is the best solution and take it as a lesson learned to either get contracts translated or have someone you trust proof read first.

Of course, you could keep it occupied for the next two weeks to stop her re-leasing it, leaving enough to cover electricity and water, sort of run down the deposit.

[Lucifer]

So, a solicitor from England who used to screw his clients 3000 baht an hour back in Blighty can't afford to loose 3000 baht to a landlady over some rent. Hmm, doesn't add up.

Moreover, I suspect the wife might have said to the landlady that they're staying a year.

[CharlieH]

Forget it ! Move on, learn from it.

Too small money, too much hassle, its wrong but they know how to play the game, you wont be last to fall victim thats for sure. Be very careful what you say to others or you could face defamation claims, they love that one in Thailand.

[Pralaad]

With a huge smile tell her she can keep the deposit and deduct all bills from there, however you would like to know if she has paid all the taxes up to date, land tax, business tax, vat(she does rent nightly) and rental income tax, plus a few others relating to having "hotel"

You may find her attitude will change pretty fast.

Make sure to say rules are rules

[N47HAN]

Leave and let it be a lesson learned. I fear you may have more to come judging by your thoughts of recompence.

TIT .

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Soutpeel]

your post is exceptionally difficult to read due to absence of paragraph's....

but if I understand your post, the amount we are talking about is THB 3500 ?....one suspects you would be better to let it go and put it down to a lesson learned and move on.

I expect her to change the locks to the apartment. In this event I will probably break the lock as I want to get access to it at the very least if I am still paying for it. I've even had thoughts of just taking the 7,000 baht fridge freezer and 1,000 baht tv and just selling it to recover the deposit amount

You profess to be a "lawyer" in the UK, so with reference to the above paragraph surely you understand the concept of selling property which don't belong to you as a legal term called larceny ?

Based on the way you have written your OP, I am struggling to believe you are/were a lawyer in the UK, and if you are, I must say it certainly appears the legal profession has really taken a nose dive in the UK .

[Sam Gold]

Live and learn, and forget about the 3,500, you'll never see the money again, and the more you insist, the closer you will get to unnecessary and disproportionate trouble (voices raised, faces lost, local taxi motorbikes and authority figures getting involved etc).

Confrontation never works here. Now you know that a lot of Thais' (not all of them, thankfully) smiles and friendly chit-chat only bears one purpose, and that is to screw you.

[Squeegee]

First, move on from this incident and learn from it.

Second, change your attitude and realize you are in Thailand (before you get yourself in big trouble doing stupid things).

Third, learn about Thailand. It's about time you did so, given you live and work here with a Thai citizen for a future wife and mother of your child.

Please use paragraphs.

All of the above may not be what you want to hear but it's all sound advice.

[varun]

^{It's 3,500 baht, not 35,000 baht. Let it go.}

[N47HAN]

No news back the op , perhaps they shot him after he stole the fridge.

Lol :-)

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KevWaters]

Lol I'm not dead, yet....just working.

Firstly I better put those minds at ease who are upset about the lack of paragraphs, the browser on my phone deleted the paragraphs when I posted to this site and it may have done it again this time around. But yeah, the area is in decline for sure, but this has more to do with cuts and reforms rather than a young broke guy wanting to retaliate for being callously ripped off.

Thanks all, there really doesn't seem like much I can do and she knows that. Thailand is pretty lawless in comparison to the UK.

I'm not sure why a couple of you say "learn from it", there's nothing to "learn" from and no way of avoiding someone steal your money. Also, not sure what you mean by saying I've been a year so I should learn about Thailand. You have no idea of what I know and do not know about the place. I can only assume from your lack of knowing me that you are referring to me wanting to strike back/get even/resolve this. That's not Thai but that's me, whether in Thailand or not. Sorry dude, that's not something that I can change, or something that I necessarily want too change.

If you think all lawyers are always law abiding out of hours, you're very very wrong. They are humans too.

Thanks again for the contributions, I'm going to keep the keys for 4 weeks and then give them back. I may as well limited her ability to rent it out if I'm paying for the month.

[uptheos]

Wow, terrific value!

Not easy to gain extremely valuable experience for such small money.

As a 'lawyer' you should know what to do.

[N47HAN]

Ull learn , still time.

Good luck with trying not to return the keys.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KevWaters]

I'm not sure why I'd need luck, but thanks :-)

I've already said I was a lawyer in England, not Thailand. Read the OP dude

[Neeranam]

Once I lost 2000 baht deposit so called up all my old mates and family in Scotland and Oz for hours before leaving.

[N47HAN]

With a huge smile tell her she can keep the deposit and deduct all bills from there, however you would like to know if she has paid all the taxes up to date, land tax, business tax, vat(she does rent nightly) and rental income tax, plus a few others relating to having "hotel"

You may find her attitude will change pretty fast.

Make sure to say rules are rules

Your right it will change pretty damn fast , but not for the better !!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[neverdie]

Lol I'm not dead, yet....just working.

Firstly I better put those minds at ease who are upset about the lack of paragraphs, the browser on my phone deleted the paragraphs when I posted to this site and it may have done it again this time around. But yeah, the area is in decline for sure, but this has more to do with cuts and reforms rather than a young broke guy wanting to retaliate for being callously ripped off.

Thanks all, there really doesn't seem like much I can do and she knows that. Thailand is pretty lawless in comparison to the UK.

I'm not sure why a couple of you say "learn from it", there's nothing to "learn" from and no way of avoiding someone steal your money. Also, not sure what you mean by saying I've been a year so I should learn about Thailand. You have no idea of what I know and do not know about the place. I can only assume from your lack of knowing me that you are referring to me wanting to strike back/get even/resolve this. That's not Thai but that's me, whether in Thailand or not. Sorry dude, that's not something that I can change, or something that I necessarily want too change.

If you think all lawyers are always law abiding out of hours, you're very very wrong. They are humans too.

Thanks again for the contributions, I'm going to keep the keys for 4 weeks and then give them back. I may as well limited her ability to rent it out if I'm paying for the month.

Kev,

Don't be offended, but make sure you keep cranky Kev under control in LOS. Many farang have come to grief for those 'principle' type matters here.....Not worth it.

By the way, your not paying for an extra months rent, you are forfeiting the bond. There's a difference, no matter what land you stand on this fact doesn't change. Keep the keys by all means, however brace yourself because the landlord will re-rent irregardless of what you think.

There's many of a dodgy landlord in Thailand, you've just met one of them. There's no shortage of good one around but you need to turn your awareness radar up when home hunting.....it's kind of like shopping for a landlord, not an apartment.

Best of luck for the move, the new home and the upcoming baby. Good health and happiness to all of you.

3500 baht, common, you've dropped more on a mediocre lunch.

[p_brownstone]

First of all :

I've never heard a UK Lawyer use the word "Dude".

Second of all:

Any truly Qualified Legal professional - who I am sure would have spent several years (and much of his Parents money) in University - would ever even THINK of stealing - from his ex-Landlady or whoever - a paltry Baht 10,000.- .

His Association would almost certainly ban him for life on conviction.

End of career.

Oh!

But I forgot!

You have now moved up in the world and have achieved the far more lofty heights of an English Teacher in Phrae.

Patrick

[kingalfred]

Welcome to Thailand.

Forget it and move on you've just been done by a nasty person not all landlords are like that.

Whether something signed or not, Electric and water bills leave you with a 1000 plus loss not worth worrying about.

not all landlords/ owners/managers are, but a high damn percentage are . Bunch of cheats

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Vacuum]

BobbyL, on 27 May 2014 - 11:38, said:

Be thankful it's only potentially 2k, that's only a weekend night out.

Did you miss this part?

Hello, I am a 29 year old Teacher

[Stradavarius37]

OP - walk away - stop causing your wife stress. Its US 100 bucks for goodness sakes. If you cant' afford to lose that, you are 1) in the wrong profession, 2) in the wrong country....

[Pralaad]

With a huge smile tell her she can keep the deposit and deduct all bills from there, however you would like to know if she has paid all the taxes up to date, land tax, business tax, vat(she does rent nightly) and rental income tax, plus a few others relating to having "hotel"

You may find her attitude will change pretty fast.

Make sure to say rules are rules

Your right it will change pretty damn fast , but not for the better !!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are also right, for the worse, as paying back all the taxes would set her back few hundred thousand and all one needs to do is make an anonymous email or a phone call to revenue department.

You do know Thai revenue department is no different to Western Based Tax collection departments?

Before you come up with a story of what you heard from someone, somewhere, let me tell you my personal experience few years back in BKK.

I rented condo and all was sweet, when i moved out all was sweet, however week later when i called owner to find out when i will get my deposit back, all over sudden condo was full of damage and there would be no refund.

First i asked the landlord to show me all the damage and the bills for repairs, which she stupidly did, all were real bills but not for the damage i did, but for renovating the condo at my expense.

With a big smile, i first asked the landlord to make a copy of all receipts and after with a huge smile advised her that i hoped she and her contractors all pay taxes, as i was now going to Revenue Department.

You have no idea how fast the attitude had changed.

All contractors stopped working on the spot and disappeared. while the landlord with pouty lips pulled out her wallet and handed over my deposit in full, even including the bills i owed adding few swear words and something along the lines of "farang kee nok roo mak"

[N47HAN]

Youve got gonads , good on you.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app