Pakistan woman stoned by family outside Lahore court

[Morch]

"Although Islam does not specifically endorse killing female family members, some honor killings involve allegations of adultery or apostasy, which are punishable by death under Shari'a (Islamic law). Thus, the belief that women who stray from the path can be rightly murdered is consistent with such Islamic teachings. The refusal of most Islamic authorities to unambiguously denounce the practice (as opposed to merely denying that Islam sanctions it) only encourages would-be honor killers."

"A 2011 survey by the Thomson Reuters Foundation ranked Pakistan as the third most dangerous country in the world for women (India was fourth)."

source

It's not realistically feasible, but in theory, could a Pakistani or Indian woman get to the embassy of, let's say, the USA and seek political asylum? After all, they're being severely persecuted for their beliefs. In many cases, they're being threatened with disfigurement and death for wanting to have a mate of their choice.

In the 1960's and 70's, there was a rural hippie place called 'The Farm' or 'Steve Gaskin's Farm' in eastern US. Steven's main wife (he had a bunch of lovers, ...free love, and all that) was an adept mid-wife. The Farm's policy: any female who was having trouble with a pregnancy (runaway boyfriend, disapproving parents, contemplating abortion, etc), could come to the Farm, and have the baby, no questions asked, no expenses. If the woman wanted to keep the baby, fine. If not, she could leave it to be brought up by the many hippies at the Farm. For 2 years, I dated a woman who was born there.

In a sense, the Farm was a safe haven for oppressed and/or troubled women. In a utopian world, safe havens like the Farm could be set up. In screwed up countries like India and Pakistan, they would have to have midieval type wall/gates/guards if they could exist at all. But still, I'm just wondering what can be done by concerned people - to try and assist multitudes of severely threatened youngsters, mostly women.

There are organizations helping women in dire circumstances which operate in relevant countries.

The level of what they can do depends on conditions and risks pertaining to the place.

India is relatively more open to such activities, compared with most Muslim countries - and while authorities, especially on

the local level can not be fully trusted, there is some measure of improvement and more recourse for legal action. Also easier

to get the media involved. In Muslim countries, or when dealing with Muslim societies such organizations need to exercise

more caution, as it is sometimes dangerous to openly act on things.

A common problem is spreading the word and making such organizations accessible to women at risk.

[Diddl]

My goodness! If it’s not hate the Thais on this forum, now it is hate the Muslims!

I have met and lived with people from many cultures and religions and have found that there are good people and there are bad people. To generalise like this is terrible. No wonder the world is in upheaval and people can’t get on with each other. What a hell-hole we are creating!

You have fallen for the media’s bait because you have given approval for all those in power to invade and kill people in Muslim countries under the pretext that they are evil when innocent people live there only wanting to live their lives in peace and bring up their children, just like you wish to do also. When is this all going to stop?

You are as guilty of murder as far as I am concerned as those killing these women, or killing anybody for that matter, because you foster this hate towards all people such as Muslims even though most are innocent and would never delve so low as to kill their offspring. The more you hate Muslims, or anybody for that matter, the more you are guilty of all horrific actions going on all over the world because you are spreading propaganda that certain peoples/religions are evil. If you had been born into a Muslim family, I wonder whether you would hate all Muslims (and I’m talking about innocent Muslims).

I could bash the Christians too because of all the paedophilia that the media have published as well as the child murders. I could hate Westerners because they tend to be Christians. I could hate the Hindus because they too in some cases kill people in the name of honour. I could hate Americans because an American did me wrong when I moved to Thailand. I could hate the British because some of my family treated me badly. I could hate Thais because people on this forum say they are bad. I could hate the Russians because the media say that Russia is an enemy. And it goes on and on and on! But I don’t hate any of these people because I don’t generalise and I give credit to each individual person that proves himself/herself to be worthy.

As I said before, this is a ‘control’ problem, it is a problem that humans have, and it has got to stop. Westerners are not exempt from this problem but they don’t tend to kill their children because laws are more enforced. If you look around, some children commit suicide in the West because of this problem of control, parents’ over-controlling their children, school children controlling and bullying other children, and it goes on and on and on. This is what I call indirect murder. Is there a difference? It is the same thing because that person caused a death.

Let’s be fair, we have all wanted to control someone and we always want to control our own lives, the only difference is that we don’t kill people in order to retain control but, in some cases, some would want to if they had half the chance of getting away with it! You think you are a goody-goody but if you look within, you will see what you really are.

Hate-mongering does not bring peace to the world.

P.S. I am not a Muslim for those who think I am.

[transam]

My goodness! If it’s not hate the Thais on this forum, now it is hate the Muslims!

I have met and lived with people from many cultures and religions and have found that there are good people and there are bad people. To generalise like this is terrible. No wonder the world is in upheaval and people can’t get on with each other. What a hell-hole we are creating!

You have fallen for the media’s bait because you have given approval for all those in power to invade and kill people in Muslim countries under the pretext that they are evil when innocent people live there only wanting to live their lives in peace and bring up their children, just like you wish to do also. When is this all going to stop?

You are as guilty of murder as far as I am concerned as those killing these women, or killing anybody for that matter, because you foster this hate towards all people such as Muslims even though most are innocent and would never delve so low as to kill their offspring. The more you hate Muslims, or anybody for that matter, the more you are guilty of all horrific actions going on all over the world because you are spreading propaganda that certain peoples/religions are evil. If you had been born into a Muslim family, I wonder whether you would hate all Muslims (and I’m talking about innocent Muslims).

I could bash the Christians too because of all the paedophilia that the media have published as well as the child murders. I could hate Westerners because they tend to be Christians. I could hate the Hindus because they too in some cases kill people in the name of honour. I could hate Americans because an American did me wrong when I moved to Thailand. I could hate the British because some of my family treated me badly. I could hate Thais because people on this forum say they are bad. I could hate the Russians because the media say that Russia is an enemy. And it goes on and on and on! But I don’t hate any of these people because I don’t generalise and I give credit to each individual person that proves himself/herself to be worthy.

As I said before, this is a ‘control’ problem, it is a problem that humans have, and it has got to stop. Westerners are not exempt from this problem but they don’t tend to kill their children because laws are more enforced. If you look around, some children commit suicide in the West because of this problem of control, parents’ over-controlling their children, school children controlling and bullying other children, and it goes on and on and on. This is what I call indirect murder. Is there a difference? It is the same thing because that person caused a death.

Let’s be fair, we have all wanted to control someone and we always want to control our own lives, the only difference is that we don’t kill people in order to retain control but, in some cases, some would want to if they had half the chance of getting away with it! You think you are a goody-goody but if you look within, you will see what you really are.

Hate-mongering does not bring peace to the world.

P.S. I am not a Muslim for those who think I am.

Perhaps you can tell us why a certain religious belief is killing the innocent WORLD WIDE via a book written a zillion years back......?

PS. Perhaps you have incite into why the moderate of this certain religion do not teach the killers of the innocent the error of their apparent misinterpretation of that book...........

[Morch]

My goodness! If it’s not hate the Thais on this forum, now it is hate the Muslims!

I have met and lived with people from many cultures and religions and have found that there are good people and there are bad people. To generalise like this is terrible. No wonder the world is in upheaval and people can’t get on with each other. What a hell-hole we are creating!

You have fallen for the media’s bait because you have given approval for all those in power to invade and kill people in Muslim countries under the pretext that they are evil when innocent people live there only wanting to live their lives in peace and bring up their children, just like you wish to do also. When is this all going to stop?

You are as guilty of murder as far as I am concerned as those killing these women, or killing anybody for that matter, because you foster this hate towards all people such as Muslims even though most are innocent and would never delve so low as to kill their offspring. The more you hate Muslims, or anybody for that matter, the more you are guilty of all horrific actions going on all over the world because you are spreading propaganda that certain peoples/religions are evil. If you had been born into a Muslim family, I wonder whether you would hate all Muslims (and I’m talking about innocent Muslims).

I could bash the Christians too because of all the paedophilia that the media have published as well as the child murders. I could hate Westerners because they tend to be Christians. I could hate the Hindus because they too in some cases kill people in the name of honour. I could hate Americans because an American did me wrong when I moved to Thailand. I could hate the British because some of my family treated me badly. I could hate Thais because people on this forum say they are bad. I could hate the Russians because the media say that Russia is an enemy. And it goes on and on and on! But I don’t hate any of these people because I don’t generalise and I give credit to each individual person that proves himself/herself to be worthy.

As I said before, this is a ‘control’ problem, it is a problem that humans have, and it has got to stop. Westerners are not exempt from this problem but they don’t tend to kill their children because laws are more enforced. If you look around, some children commit suicide in the West because of this problem of control, parents’ over-controlling their children, school children controlling and bullying other children, and it goes on and on and on. This is what I call indirect murder. Is there a difference? It is the same thing because that person caused a death.

Let’s be fair, we have all wanted to control someone and we always want to control our own lives, the only difference is that we don’t kill people in order to retain control but, in some cases, some would want to if they had half the chance of getting away with it! You think you are a goody-goody but if you look within, you will see what you really are.

Hate-mongering does not bring peace to the world.

P.S. I am not a Muslim for those who think I am.

Sounds like you got some anger and control issues with regard to other posters.

[Diddl]

"Although Islam does not specifically endorse killing female family members, some honor killings involve allegations of adultery or apostasy, which are punishable by death under Shari'a (Islamic law). Thus, the belief that women who stray from the path can be rightly murdered is consistent with such Islamic teachings. The refusal of most Islamic authorities to unambiguously denounce the practice (as opposed to merely denying that Islam sanctions it) only encourages would-be honor killers."

"A 2011 survey by the Thomson Reuters Foundation ranked Pakistan as the third most dangerous country in the world for women (India was fourth)."

source

It's not realistically feasible, but in theory, could a Pakistani or Indian woman get to the embassy of, let's say, the USA and seek political asylum? After all, they're being severely persecuted for their beliefs. In many cases, they're being threatened with disfigurement and death for wanting to have a mate of their choice.

In the 1960's and 70's, there was a rural hippie place called 'The Farm' or 'Steve Gaskin's Farm' in eastern US. Steven's main wife (he had a bunch of lovers, ...free love, and all that) was an adept mid-wife. The Farm's policy: any female who was having trouble with a pregnancy (runaway boyfriend, disapproving parents, contemplating abortion, etc), could come to the Farm, and have the baby, no questions asked, no expenses. If the woman wanted to keep the baby, fine. If not, she could leave it to be brought up by the many hippies at the Farm. For 2 years, I dated a woman who was born there.

In a sense, the Farm was a safe haven for oppressed and/or troubled women. In a utopian world, safe havens like the Farm could be set up. In screwed up countries like India and Pakistan, they would have to have midieval type wall/gates/guards if they could exist at all. But still, I'm just wondering what can be done by concerned people - to try and assist multitudes of severely threatened youngsters, mostly women.

There are organizations helping women in dire circumstances which operate in relevant countries.

The level of what they can do depends on conditions and risks pertaining to the place.

India is relatively more open to such activities, compared with most Muslim countries - and while authorities, especially on

the local level can not be fully trusted, there is some measure of improvement and more recourse for legal action. Also easier

to get the media involved. In Muslim countries, or when dealing with Muslim societies such organizations need to exercise

more caution, as it is sometimes dangerous to openly act on things.

A common problem is spreading the word and making such organizations accessible to women at risk.

I worked as a voluntary worker in India helping ladies in trouble. We had a Home for them, a Safe-H<ome. Some of the problems were to do with marriage, girls wanting to marry for love and parents not allowing it, or girls eloping with their lovers, or eloping but being under age. They were normally found by the police when the parents reported them missing, and sent to the Home. The interaction with the police was very good. I can assure you that the majority of cases were Hindus, not Muslims. We would give them counselling, also to parents, and reconciliations would be effected in the majority of cases and everyone would be happy.

Now, maybe those who like hate-mongering, why don't you start on hate Hindus! Oh, and don't forget, we could extend this to hate men also!

[Diddl]

Perhaps you can tell us why a certain religious belief is killing the innocent WORLD WIDE via a book written a zillion years back......?

PS. Perhaps you have incite into why the moderate of this certain religion do not teach the killers of the innocent the error of their apparent misinterpretation of that book...........

Perhaps you could tell me what book you are referring to.

[Diddl]

Sounds like you got some anger and control issues with regard to other posters.

"Sounds" are only assumptions, not fact! If you are not bothered to read what I say, you can only assume. Keep assuming, it is a way of evading the problem. Your choice.

[transam]

Perhaps you can tell us why a certain religious belief is killing the innocent WORLD WIDE via a book written a zillion years back......?

PS. Perhaps you have incite into why the moderate of this certain religion do not teach the killers of the innocent the error of their apparent misinterpretation of that book...........

Perhaps you could tell me what book you are referring to.

Naughty, you know what book. Answer my question instead of dodging my question.

And no, I am not referring to the Christian Bible............Will save time.........

[Diddl]

Perhaps you can tell us why a certain religious belief is killing the innocent WORLD WIDE via a book written a zillion years back......?

PS. Perhaps you have incite into why the moderate of this certain religion do not teach the killers of the innocent the error of their apparent misinterpretation of that book...........

Perhaps you could tell me what book you are referring to.

Naughty, you know what book. Answer my question instead of dodging my question.

And no, I am not referring to the Christian Bible............Will save time.........

I am not dodging your question. You refer to a book "written a zillion years back" but I do not know of a book written so long ago. If you are erroneously referring to the Koran, then please give me the quote and reference because you are more learned than myself on the subject.

As you mention the Christian Bible, I wonder what you say that it mentions the first-born should be sacrificed to Yaweh, and that Yaweh even tells people to kill succling babies, women, take women as their booty (rape as a reward), and kill whole communities. You will find all this in the Old Testament. Do the majority of Christians who follow the bible do this today? I don't think so, and nor do Muslims if it is at all mentioned in the Koran.

[transam]

Diddi your right, most religions have moved on, AND understand that text in books is perhaps misinterpreted in modern times, BUT, the world is plagued in our modern times with folk of a certain religion wishing to kill innocent folk, even their OWN folk if they happen to be on an airplane with infidels...

Now you tell me why these folk are not being shown the error of their ways....?...............

PS. Hindu's, as far as l am aware, are not plotting to blow up kids in shopping malls or planes or....................

[folium]

Diddi your right, most religions have moved on, AND understand that text in books is perhaps misinterpreted in modern times, BUT, the world is plagued in our modern times with folk of a certain religion wishing to kill innocent folk, even their OWN folk if they happen to be on an airplane with infidels...

Now you tell me why these folk are not being shown the error of their ways....?...............

PS. Hindu's, as far as l am aware, are not plotting to blow up kids in shopping malls or planes or....................

You obviously missed the fact that Tamils are almost 90% Hindu and the LTTE undertook numerous terrorist style activities from 1976 to 2009 in both Sri Lanka and India ( including the assassination of Indian PM, Rajiv Ghandi). The crushing of the LTTE in 2009 also saw some major incidents of systemic violence against Tamil women and children including gang rape and murder, by the largely Buddhist Sinhalese army.

[transam]

Diddi your right, most religions have moved on, AND understand that text in books is perhaps misinterpreted in modern times, BUT, the world is plagued in our modern times with folk of a certain religion wishing to kill innocent folk, even their OWN folk if they happen to be on an airplane with infidels...

Now you tell me why these folk are not being shown the error of their ways....?...............

PS. Hindu's, as far as l am aware, are not plotting to blow up kids in shopping malls or planes or....................

You obviously missed the fact that Tamils are almost 90% Hindu and the LTTE undertook numerous terrorist style activities from 1976 to 2009 in both Sri Lanka and India ( including the assassination of Indian PM, Rajiv Ghandi). The crushing of the LTTE in 2009 also saw some major incidents of systemic violence against Tamil women and children including gang rape and murder, by the largely Buddhist Sinhalese army.

I do not give a fugg about that stuff . This is the 21st century where most folk crave for the latest FARANG phone, way of life.

Folk must decide what they would like, a farang lifestyle or kill each other. We, sorry, they, are at a crossroads, their country must go one way or the other. They want to carry on killing folk, weeeell, I think they will be talking to their maker cos folk who have moved on are tired of their shit.

[Diddl]

Diddi your right, most religions have moved on, AND understand that text in books is perhaps misinterpreted in modern times, BUT, the world is plagued in our modern times with folk of a certain religion wishing to kill innocent folk, even their OWN folk if they happen to be on an airplane with infidels...

Now you tell me why these folk are not being shown the error of their ways....?...............

PS. Hindu's, as far as l am aware, are not plotting to blow up kids in shopping malls or planes or....................

Have you ever tried to show folk the error of their ways? It is virtually impossible because people think they are always right in what they say or do. Read the comments on these forums for instance – I think it is bad to hate people whatever their culture or religion and to paint everyone with the same brush just because a few are evil, but people still do it even though all religions speak against it. If you cannot make people realise the error of their thoughts and beliefs, then just imagine how difficult it is to make people realise the error of their ways. People do try to convince others that it is wrong, I do also, but people are set in their ways and beliefs and will not let go.

In answer to your “PS” – Hindus have done so. I can relate when hundreds of thousands of innocent Moslem men, women and children were killed in Gujarat in 2002, it was a massacre. These were Hindu fundamentalists. Muslim families were locked in their homes and burnt to death, women and girls were raped, pregnant women had their stomachs cut open and the baby was pulled out, kerosene was poured over them and they were burnt alive, etc. etc. etc.

At the moment, it seems common practice for Hindus to rape women and girls in India. One of the most recent attacks was so horrible I can hardly mention it because I am so shocked by its evil and cruelty. A girl was on a bus going home. The bus gradually emptied and 3 guys were left on the bus. They (including the bus driver) raped the girl, stuffed a rod up her private parts, and threw her out of the bus onto the road. She later died in hospital.

These are just 2 incidents that I am relating to, there are others.

Now please tell me that evil is confined to Muslims, or any other culture or religion for that matter.

Despite all this evil and cruelty, I do not hate these people because I have met Muslims and Hindus that are not bad people at all and they do not agree to cruelty or murder ever.

[transam]

I have Muslim friends too, BUT, know one in their religious stuff is doing anything to stop their killing of women and kids.

All sit back and blame it all on someone else...And so their archaic stuff carries on..............

[Diddl]

I do not give a fugg about that stuff . This is the 21st century where most folk crave for the latest FARANG phone, way of life.

Folk must decide what they would like, a farang lifestyle or kill each other. We, sorry, they, are at a crossroads, their country must go one way or the other. They want to carry on killing folk, weeeell, I think they will be talking to their maker cos folk who have moved on are tired of their shit.

Do people really "crave for the latest FARANG phone..." - I don't and I don't have a FARANG phone!

[Diddl]

I have Muslim friends too, BUT, know one in their religious stuff is doing anything to stop their killing of women and kids.

All sit back and blame it all on someone else...And so their archaic stuff carries on..............

This attitude is not confined to Muslims. I remember reading, some years ago, that a woman was being raped on the platform of the London Underground during the rush hour. There were many people on the platform waiting for their train and looked on to what was happening. Nobody said anything, nobody did anything, nobody stopped this one and only thug, they just stood by and watched! They sat back too - no difference with your friends.

This forum has become all about Muslims and yet it applies to all cultures/religions, peoples, nationalities, whatever.

[transam]

I do not give a fugg about that stuff . This is the 21st century where most folk crave for the latest FARANG phone, way of life.

Folk must decide what they would like, a farang lifestyle or kill each other. We, sorry, they, are at a crossroads, their country must go one way or the other. They want to carry on killing folk, weeeell, I think they will be talking to their maker cos folk who have moved on are tired of their shit.

Do people really "crave for the latest FARANG phone..." - I don't and I don't have a FARANG phone!

Perhaps you should get out more and see the real world and what is happening where ancient stuff is meeting modern ..........

[Diddl]

I do not give a fugg about that stuff . This is the 21st century where most folk crave for the latest FARANG phone, way of life.

Folk must decide what they would like, a farang lifestyle or kill each other. We, sorry, they, are at a crossroads, their country must go one way or the other. They want to carry on killing folk, weeeell, I think they will be talking to their maker cos folk who have moved on are tired of their shit.

Do people really "crave for the latest FARANG phone..." - I don't and I don't have a FARANG phone!

Perhaps you should get out more and see the real world and what is happening where ancient stuff is meeting modern ..........

I have seen the real world. You should do more research on “where ancient stuff is meeting modern” and you would learn a few things.

[transam]

I do not give a fugg about that stuff . This is the 21st century where most folk crave for the latest FARANG phone, way of life.

Folk must decide what they would like, a farang lifestyle or kill each other. We, sorry, they, are at a crossroads, their country must go one way or the other. They want to carry on killing folk, weeeell, I think they will be talking to their maker cos folk who have moved on are tired of their shit.

Do people really "crave for the latest FARANG phone..." - I don't and I don't have a FARANG phone!

Perhaps you should get out more and see the real world and what is happening where ancient stuff is meeting modern ..........

I have seen the real world. You should do more research on “where ancient stuff is meeting modern” and you would learn a few things.

Well yeh, I want a 426 Hemi............But...........

[MAJIC]

Let them into UK..

Troll

[boomerangutang]

Diddl writes:

You are as guilty of murder as far as I am concerned as those killing these women, or killing anybody for that matter, because you foster this hate towards all people such as Muslims even though most are innocent and would never delve so low as to kill their offspring.

I'm not guilty of murder. I couldn't even kill a fish. Indeed, I do all I can to try and protect children. The people described in the OP kill people for non-reasons. That's 180% different than the way I manifest in this world. You might as well call me Cleopatra, as it makes as much sense, as saying I'm guilty of murder. Ok, you're hot headed and trying to make a dramatic point, but you're going about it all wrong, buddy.

Dude, you're the one mentioning hate, over and over. I don't hate the people that are studiously cruel and causing suffering, I hate what they doing. I don't even hate the cultural cruelties mixed with religion (Fatwa, Sharia, etc-a) that compel parents to kill their offspring. I realize people do crazed things and follow screwed up belief systems. I'm trying to find some routes toward sanity. If I could sacrifice my life to save just one girl from being stoned to death, I would.

As far as 'there are good Muslims, etc.' Yes, we all know that. Some of my favorite people where I reside in N. Thailand are Muslims. Again, that's a side issue, and doesn't negate the fact that there are despicably cruel people out there who use Islam and 'it's Allah's will' ....for (at least part of) their justification for causing so much harm.

Edited May 31, 2014 by boomerangutang

[transam]

Diddl writes:

You are as guilty of murder as far as I am concerned as those killing these women, or killing anybody for that matter, because you foster this hate towards all people such as Muslims even though most are innocent and would never delve so low as to kill their offspring.

I'm not guilty of murder. I couldn't even kill a fish. Indeed, I do all I can to try and protect children. The people described in the OP kill people for non-reasons. That's 180% different than the way I manifest in this world. You might as well call me Cleopatra, as it makes as much sense, as saying I'm guilty of murder. Ok, you're hot headed and trying to make a dramatic point, but you're going about it all wrong, buddy.

Dude, you're the one mentioning hate, over and over. I don't hate the the people what are studiously cruel and causing suffering, I hate what they doing. I don't even hate the cultural cruelties mixed with religion (Fatwa, Sharia, etc-a) that compel parents to kill their offspring. I realize people do crazed things and follow screwed up belief systems. I'm trying to find some routes toward sanity. If I could sacrifice my life to save just one girl from being stoned to death, I would.

As far as 'there are good Muslims, etc.' Yes, we all know that. Some of my favorite people where I reside in N. Thailand are Muslims. Again, that's a side issue, and doesn't negate the fact that there are despicably cruel people out there who use Islam and 'it's Allah's will' ....for (at least part of) their justification for causing so much harm.

, well put...........

[Morch]

"Although Islam does not specifically endorse killing female family members, some honor killings involve allegations of adultery or apostasy, which are punishable by death under Shari'a (Islamic law). Thus, the belief that women who stray from the path can be rightly murdered is consistent with such Islamic teachings. The refusal of most Islamic authorities to unambiguously denounce the practice (as opposed to merely denying that Islam sanctions it) only encourages would-be honor killers."

"A 2011 survey by the Thomson Reuters Foundation ranked Pakistan as the third most dangerous country in the world for women (India was fourth)."

source

It's not realistically feasible, but in theory, could a Pakistani or Indian woman get to the embassy of, let's say, the USA and seek political asylum? After all, they're being severely persecuted for their beliefs. In many cases, they're being threatened with disfigurement and death for wanting to have a mate of their choice.

In the 1960's and 70's, there was a rural hippie place called 'The Farm' or 'Steve Gaskin's Farm' in eastern US. Steven's main wife (he had a bunch of lovers, ...free love, and all that) was an adept mid-wife. The Farm's policy: any female who was having trouble with a pregnancy (runaway boyfriend, disapproving parents, contemplating abortion, etc), could come to the Farm, and have the baby, no questions asked, no expenses. If the woman wanted to keep the baby, fine. If not, she could leave it to be brought up by the many hippies at the Farm. For 2 years, I dated a woman who was born there.

In a sense, the Farm was a safe haven for oppressed and/or troubled women. In a utopian world, safe havens like the Farm could be set up. In screwed up countries like India and Pakistan, they would have to have midieval type wall/gates/guards if they could exist at all. But still, I'm just wondering what can be done by concerned people - to try and assist multitudes of severely threatened youngsters, mostly women.

There are organizations helping women in dire circumstances which operate in relevant countries.

The level of what they can do depends on conditions and risks pertaining to the place.

India is relatively more open to such activities, compared with most Muslim countries - and while authorities, especially on

the local level can not be fully trusted, there is some measure of improvement and more recourse for legal action. Also easier

to get the media involved. In Muslim countries, or when dealing with Muslim societies such organizations need to exercise

more caution, as it is sometimes dangerous to openly act on things.

A common problem is spreading the word and making such organizations accessible to women at risk.

I worked as a voluntary worker in India helping ladies in trouble. We had a Home for them, a Safe-H<ome. Some of the problems were to do with marriage, girls wanting to marry for love and parents not allowing it, or girls eloping with their lovers, or eloping but being under age. They were normally found by the police when the parents reported them missing, and sent to the Home. The interaction with the police was very good. I can assure you that the majority of cases were Hindus, not Muslims. We would give them counselling, also to parents, and reconciliations would be effected in the majority of cases and everyone would be happy.

Now, maybe those who like hate-mongering, why don't you start on hate Hindus! Oh, and don't forget, we could extend this to hate men also!

Did some of the same, in India and other places.

It would be far fetched to deduce from your personal experience that "interaction with police was very good" - even if I did

not have my own experience to counter that, a quick review of past cases published on media hardly speaks in favor of

the police in connection with such cases. The story portrayed in the parallel topic in this forum is another fine example.

I'm really not sure regarding the bit were most cases you met had "happy endings", guess it depends on where this was and

what sort of organization you belonged to.

You can assure me of nothing, although you are probably right. It is worthy to note that Muslims are a minority in India, so

wouldn't expect them to be over-represented on this, and in addition - your own experience might be effected by location.

Doing the same kind of work in a Muslim area in India, one will get more Muslim cases.

Doing the same kind of work with Muslim population (not necessarily in India) is a somewhat different experience.

The most notable difference is that workers/volunteers are potentially more exposed to danger themselves, and that local

authorities are less forthcoming with assistance.

[Morch]

Sounds like you got some anger and control issues with regard to other posters.

"Sounds" are only assumptions, not fact! If you are not bothered to read what I say, you can only assume. Keep assuming, it is a way of evading the problem. Your choice.

I read your post and that's what I sensed. Of course, words on the internet can be misleading and it is quite possible that

you were indeed trying to convey your acceptance of posters failings in a calm and reasonable manner - which I obviously

missed.

[neverdie]

I do not give a fugg about that stuff . This is the 21st century where most folk crave for the latest FARANG phone, way of life.

Folk must decide what they would like, a farang lifestyle or kill each other. We, sorry, they, are at a crossroads, their country must go one way or the other. They want to carry on killing folk, weeeell, I think they will be talking to their maker cos folk who have moved on are tired of their shit.

Do people really "crave for the latest FARANG phone..." - I don't and I don't have a FARANG phone!

Perhaps you should get out more and see the real world and what is happening where ancient stuff is meeting modern ..........

I have seen the real world. You should do more research on where ancient stuff is meeting modern and you would learn a few things.

Well yeh, I want a 426 Hemi............But...........

but they're aweful noisey, don't pull that well and can't keep up with a Nissan GTR ?

[Morch]

Diddi your right, most religions have moved on, AND understand that text in books is perhaps misinterpreted in modern times, BUT, the world is plagued in our modern times with folk of a certain religion wishing to kill innocent folk, even their OWN folk if they happen to be on an airplane with infidels...

Now you tell me why these folk are not being shown the error of their ways....?...............

PS. Hindu's, as far as l am aware, are not plotting to blow up kids in shopping malls or planes or....................

Have you ever tried to show folk the error of their ways? It is virtually impossible because people think they are always right in what they say or do. Read the comments on these forums for instance – I think it is bad to hate people whatever their culture or religion and to paint everyone with the same brush just because a few are evil, but people still do it even though all religions speak against it. If you cannot make people realise the error of their thoughts and beliefs, then just imagine how difficult it is to make people realise the error of their ways. People do try to convince others that it is wrong, I do also, but people are set in their ways and beliefs and will not let go.

In answer to your “PS” – Hindus have done so. I can relate when hundreds of thousands of innocent Moslem men, women and children were killed in Gujarat in 2002, it was a massacre. These were Hindu fundamentalists. Muslim families were locked in their homes and burnt to death, women and girls were raped, pregnant women had their stomachs cut open and the baby was pulled out, kerosene was poured over them and they were burnt alive, etc. etc. etc.

At the moment, it seems common practice for Hindus to rape women and girls in India. One of the most recent attacks was so horrible I can hardly mention it because I am so shocked by its evil and cruelty. A girl was on a bus going home. The bus gradually emptied and 3 guys were left on the bus. They (including the bus driver) raped the girl, stuffed a rod up her private parts, and threw her out of the bus onto the road. She later died in hospital.

These are just 2 incidents that I am relating to, there are others.

Now please tell me that evil is confined to Muslims, or any other culture or religion for that matter.

Despite all this evil and cruelty, I do not hate these people because I have met Muslims and Hindus that are not bad people at all and they do not agree to cruelty or murder ever.

As you've been told by another poster, stop overdoing it.

Every post that does not agree with you is tagged as hatred of Muslims.

Saying posters are responsible for murders.

There weren't "hundreds of thousands" killed in the Gujarat riots.

And posting in bold doesn't make your point more valid.

[Diddl]

Did some of the same, in India and other places.

It would be far fetched to deduce from your personal experience that "interaction with police was very good" - even if I did

not have my own experience to counter that, a quick review of past cases published on media hardly speaks in favor of

the police in connection with such cases. The story portrayed in the parallel topic in this forum is another fine example.

I'm really not sure regarding the bit were most cases you met had "happy endings", guess it depends on where this was and

what sort of organization you belonged to.

You can assure me of nothing, although you are probably right. It is worthy to note that Muslims are a minority in India, so

wouldn't expect them to be over-represented on this, and in addition - your own experience might be effected by location.

Doing the same kind of work in a Muslim area in India, one will get more Muslim cases.

Doing the same kind of work with Muslim population (not necessarily in India) is a somewhat different experience.

The most notable difference is that workers/volunteers are potentially more exposed to danger themselves, and that local

authorities are less forthcoming with assistance.

As I said before, there are good people and bad people, and so there are good police as well as bad police. I was fortunate enough to work for a Trust where the local police were good people. I know about India and I have experienced and observed all the very bad points and people but this does not give me the right to say that they are all bad because they are not because I have met good people.

There are many Muslims all over India and they are not confined to the north or solely to Pakistan or Bangladesh. The last place I worked was in the south and there are a lot of Muslims there. I also worked in the east, which is predominantly Muslim, and these were good people.

By saying, “your own experience might be effected by location. Doing the same kind of work in a Muslim area in India, one will get more Muslim cases”, you prove what I have said all along on this forum, that the location would determine the crime but not necessarily the people and their religion.

[Diddl]

Sounds like you got some anger and control issues with regard to other posters.

"Sounds" are only assumptions, not fact! If you are not bothered to read what I say, you can only assume. Keep assuming, it is a way of evading the problem. Your choice.

I read your post and that's what I sensed. Of course, words on the internet can be misleading and it is quite possible that

you were indeed trying to convey your acceptance of posters failings in a calm and reasonable manner - which I obviously

missed.

Thank you for that.

Yes, I was trying to explain that criminals are the ones guilty of the crime and not the culture/religion. Even if there were no cultures or religions, people would still be commiting crime. And to spread all this hate speech does not help to create peace in the world, in fact it is against all religions to hate others.

[Diddl]

As you've been told by another poster, stop overdoing it.

Every post that does not agree with you is tagged as hatred of Muslims.

Saying posters are responsible for murders.

There weren't "hundreds of thousands" killed in the Gujarat riots.

And posting in bold doesn't make your point more valid.

I should “stop overdoing it”? Why? I thought everyone else was overdoing it with their hate speech. Oh, and I should obey a poster that does not agree with me? Who are you, my father!

A lot of tags, not every tag, that I have read are about hating Muslims. Read again. You so not agree with my tag so why are you responding? Are you into hating me as well as Muslims?

Yes, some posters are responsible for the murders all over the world because they spread hate that entices more hate and crime. In any case, people say what they want on this forum, so why can’t I? If you don’t like it, then don’t read my messages.

So, Mr. Wise Guy, tell me how many were killed in Gujarat.

As for posting in bold, I am not aware of it and it was not my intention. Sometimes I type my replies on Word and transfer the text to the forum but my Word text is not in bold. When I read the forum I do not see my text in bold – maybe it is your eyesight. In any case, I apologise that this bothers you if that is the case. Maybe you should exercise less control!

[Diddl]

Diddl writes:

You are as guilty of murder as far as I am concerned as those killing these women, or killing anybody for that matter, because you foster this hate towards all people such as Muslims even though most are innocent and would never delve so low as to kill their offspring.

I'm not guilty of murder. I couldn't even kill a fish. Indeed, I do all I can to try and protect children. The people described in the OP kill people for non-reasons. That's 180% different than the way I manifest in this world. You might as well call me Cleopatra, as it makes as much sense, as saying I'm guilty of murder. Ok, you're hot headed and trying to make a dramatic point, but you're going about it all wrong, buddy.

Dude, you're the one mentioning hate, over and over. I don't hate the people that are studiously cruel and causing suffering, I hate what they doing. I don't even hate the cultural cruelties mixed with religion (Fatwa, Sharia, etc-a) that compel parents to kill their offspring. I realize people do crazed things and follow screwed up belief systems. I'm trying to find some routes toward sanity. If I could sacrifice my life to save just one girl from being stoned to death, I would.

As far as 'there are good Muslims, etc.' Yes, we all know that. Some of my favorite people where I reside in N. Thailand are Muslims. Again, that's a side issue, and doesn't negate the fact that there are despicably cruel people out there who use Islam and 'it's Allah's will' ....for (at least part of) their justification for causing so much harm.

If you don’t hate innocent people who have nothing to do with the cruelty and murder that people of their culture/religion do, then what I wrote does not concern you so why do you retaliate? My comments are directed at all the hate speech that entices killings towards sectors of people that have nothing to do with cruelty or murder, people painting everybody with the same brush when not everyone is like that.

Read what I say and you will see what I mean and that it is not directed at you. That is the problem isn’t it, people just get emotional and respond without thinking about what they read!

Also, I am waiting for someone to give me a reference/proof that Allah justifies murder. I am really interested to know this. I am not interested in hearsay.

Anyway, I’m out of here. This forum is getting boring repeating the same thing over and over again, and people are getting emotional and nasty as is usually the case on TV. Good luck to you all, I only hope that one day people do not hate you.