Thais and their English affair

[rlopes]

You go to a store and barely start asking for something in Thai, and the "helpful" Thai replies to you in "English".

It bothers me for the following reasons:

1. Most of them can't really understand English

2. They assume that I speak English. That's not my first language

3. This is Thailand, we should speak their language here, not the opposite

4. It blows your opportunities to practice Thai and evolve

Does it also bother you? How do you go about it?

[Mole]

1. What really bothers me are farangs who assume most Thais can't really understand English.

2. They don't assume you're native English speaker (how would they know exactly what country you're from anyway?), but they do assume you speak English, which you probably do, right?

3. Ideally, yes, but if you foreigners speak so poor Thai, it may be better for us to speak to you in English instead to save time and get on with the business. Our English may be poor, but consider this that your Thai may also be poor. In this case, instead of getting annoyed by a Thai who are unwilling to put up and understand your poor Thai, perhaps you should just get on with your business and try to understand our poor English instead?

For example, if you was gonna buy some "gai yaang", and the vendor replied you "yoo wan fait chikken?", just say "yes", instead of getting annoyed?

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Mole

[rlopes]

@Mole

1. Tell me you don't agree with me then. How many Thais can get beyond the very basics when they say things like "no have" ?

3. My very basic Thai is good enough to order most things. In fact, the seller will waste much more time trying to remember what he learnt in English then vice-versa?

4. I suppose I should hire you or a relative, right?

[DavidMavec]

@Rlopes Yes, it bothered me and was one of the big reasons I stopped wasting my time learning Thai (I learned it for a year with a 1:1 teacher and can read and speak Thai fairly well but my vocabulary is somewhat limited).

White foreigners will never be accepted in their culture and learning the language does not really help the way it would in another culture. I think the Thai obsession with English is, in their mind, related to their obsession with becoming industrialized.

Also, Thai people falsely believe that all farangs speak English but other Asian foreigners do not... it's rather xenophobic their behavior in my opinion.

[DavidMavec]

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

Why do most of you Thai people foolishly believe that all white people want to speak or practice English?This is not England, this is Thailand. You should have more pride in your culture and language than this! Thai people love to say how they were never colonized but your behavior, especially on this issue, says something very different in my opinion.

[Taunusianer]

No, it doesn't bother me. First of all, it must be said, that the knowledge of English language, even in rural areas or for elder people has increased enormous in the last 10 years, and many of them, how have learned to speak English want to practice this and are a little proud like you are, speaking Thai. But if you want to practice Thai you will still have the opportunity to do so most over the country. But for sure, I also depends on you skills. So when it is about business (hotels, car rental, etc. ), I completely given up to speak Thai in touristic areas, because I know, they speak much better English over there, than I speak Thai. And it is annoying for both sides, if it comes to misunderstandings, because I am not that perfect in Thai.

But therefore I go to the areas outside the tourist spots, where I know my Thai knowledge is very much appreciated. And not only that: There are still enough places where Thai is a must, and you will be totally ignored as long as you don't call for the service with a loud น้อง (every time when I am in Thailand I find more than one of this restaurants, or whatever), or you will be in trouble ordering food if you can't read the Thai menu.

So, and if you really want to practice you Thai, I notice, that about 80-90 percent of my personal contacts return to Thai, if you keep talking Thai with them. So, still plenty of opportunity and no reason to bother.

[HooHaa]

1. What really bothers me are farangs who assume most Thais can't really understand English.

2. They don't assume you're native English speaker (how would they know exactly what country you're from anyway?), but they do assume you speak English, which you probably do, right?

3. Ideally, yes, but if you foreigners speak so poor Thai, it may be better for us to speak to you in English instead to save time and get on with the business. Our English may be poor, but consider this that your Thai may also be poor. In this case, instead of getting annoyed by a Thai who are unwilling to put up and understand your poor Thai, perhaps you should just get on with your business and try to understand our poor English instead?

For example, if you was gonna buy some "gai yaang", and the vendor replied you "yoo wan fait chikken?", just say "yes", instead of getting annoyed?

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

gai yang is barbecued chicken

[kriswillems]

Whether or not a Thai is going to speak in English or Thai to you usually depends on your level of Thai.

If your Thai is better than their English, they'll quickly switch to Thai.

There are a few exceptions, but it's generally like that.

My experience is that they can very quickly estimate your level of Thai.

If you want that Thai people speak Thai to you, you've to try to sound natural, use talking language, avoid schoolbook language.

Many farang believe they can speak Thai, but in reality they can't...

English is the most used middle language (especially among Caucasian/white people) so it it's perfectly logical they try to speak English to you when your Thai is not that good.

The excuse that it's not useful to study Thai because Thai people refuse to speak Thai to you or even refuse to understand you if you speak Thai is totally absurd.... if you think this you might want to do some self reflection.

Edited May 28, 2014 by kriswillems

[rlopes]

Whether or not a Thai is going to speak in English or Thai to you usually depends on your level of Thai.

If your Thai is better than their English, they'll quickly switch to Thai.

There are a few exceptions, but it's generally like that.

My experience is that they can very quickly estimate your level of Thai.

If you want that Thai people speak Thai to you, you've to try to sound natural, use talking language, avoid schoolbook language.

Many farang believe they can speak Thai, but in reality they can't...

English is the most used middle language (especially among Caucasian/white people) so it it's perfectly logical they try to speak English to you when your Thai is not that good.

The excuse that it's not useful to study Thai because Thai people refuse to speak Thai to you or even refuse to understand you if you speak Thai is totally absurd.... if you think this you might want to do some self reflection.

That's not always the case.

Usually street vendors and more "humble" people seem to be happy when they see I know some Thai, even if it's basic. Even when they know basic English, which happens a lot. It's a good laugh for them hearing me talk, which I don't mind.

The issue is more with middle class folks. It seems they will die if they don't show off their English skills to their fellows.

[Roel]

Actually I think it is kind of cute when I speak Thai in the 7-eleven and then the most brave of the girls steps forward and starts speaking in English ignoring her giggling colleagues.

That you cannot learn Thai if Thais refuse to communicate in Thai with you is no argument as for every Thai doing that there are 25 others who don't.

[NaiGreg]

Amazing.

Newbie Thai-language learners get frustrated picking up a difficult language and blame (1) the แม่ค้า selling som-tam (thanks for the giggle, rlopes) and (2) the entire (xenophobic, should-have-been-colonized) nation of Thailand (thanks for the laugh, David)

Funny and disturbing at the same time!

Edited May 29, 2014 by NaiGreg

[DavidMavec]

Amazing.

Newbie Thai-language learners get frustrated picking up a difficult language and blame (1) the แม่ค้า selling som-tam (thanks for the giggle, rlopes) and (2) the entire (xenophobic, should-have-been-colonized) nation of Thailand (thanks for the laugh, David)

Then they get angry when the resident ThaiVisa scholars give them time-proven advice (because it's foolish!)

Funny and disturbing at the same time!

ผมยินดีที่ทำให้คุณกรเกและคนอื่นๆหัวเราะ นะ

[A1Str8]

1. What really bothers me are farangs who assume most Thais can't really understand English.

2. They don't assume you're native English speaker (how would they know exactly what country you're from anyway?), but they do assume you speak English, which you probably do, right?

3. Ideally, yes, but if you foreigners speak so poor Thai, it may be better for us to speak to you in English instead to save time and get on with the business. Our English may be poor, but consider this that your Thai may also be poor. In this case, instead of getting annoyed by a Thai who are unwilling to put up and understand your poor Thai, perhaps you should just get on with your business and try to understand our poor English instead?

For example, if you was gonna buy some "gai yaang", and the vendor replied you "yoo wan fait chikken?", just say "yes", instead of getting annoyed?

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

1. He was not talking about that he assumes most Thais cant speak English. But its true most of them cant.

2. He didnt say they assume he is native he said they assume he speaks english.

3. It's not about who speaks the language better. In almost any other country if i try to practice the local language people are helpful.

But in Thailand xenophobia gets into the way of being helpful.

4. Best practice is real life practice not a tutor. I can imagine that's why most people choose it over a tutor.

Edited May 29, 2014 by A1Str8

[DavidMavec]

4. Best practice is real life practice not a tutor. I can imagine that's why most people choose it over a tutor.

Good points. The one thing I would disagree with is that it is most effective to do both, study with a tutor while practicing in daily life. Studying with a tutor allows us to understand if we are making mistakes and gives us many opportunities to speak, practice, ask questions, learn new vocabulary, etc.

Something that helped me a great deal was practicing reading aloud to my tutor for six months, an hour every day. She would correct my pronunciation based on the reading and that helped me speak much more clearly.

[HeavyDrinker]

I like it when they use English with me. Doesn't happen often around here but saves nicely on the brain....

[ProThaiExpat]

Having been born in Japan and lived there for more than a decade in the 50s and 60s, I was quite accustomed in those days to Japanese, upon seeing I was a white person, set their mind to my speaking English. Accordingly, even though my spoken Japanese was almost native conversational, they would not, at first, comprehend what I said in Japanese.

So I developed the habit of saying in Japanese "I am speaking to you in Japanese" or any other opening phrase that they could dwell on to re-set their minds to listening to Japanese and then they would have no trouble after that of understanding my Japanese.

Did they insist on speaking to me in English even though I could converse fluently in Japanese. Yes. Most of the Japanese I encountered in everyday life, would take the opportunity to speak English to me if they could, as they had few chances to speak to a native English speaker, so they loved to practice, even if their English was poor.

Things may have changed these days, however, I tend to do the same thing, speaking to Japanese in Japanese when I encounter them, especially in restaurants. Many times my efforts would fall on deaf ears, as the Japanese in the restaurant may be second or third generation who did not speak Japanese.

One of my favorite Japanese restaurants in Chiang Mai have wait staff that are Thai. Notweithstanding that, I always order in Japanese as the wait staff are happy to learn how one would order in Japanese as they do get Japanese tourist customers on occasion.

You guessed it, one day I was ordering in Japanese and the Thai waiter responded to me in very fluent Japanese, much to my surprise. I was delighted thereafter to have conversations with him in Japanese. He said he learned to speak Japanese at a Japanese language school. He just opened his own small Japanese restaurant behind Big C. Don't ask me for directions as I haven't had a chance to go there yet.

Yes I have been attacked by a falang fluent Thai speaker for speaking to the manager of Homepro in Tinglish. Her complaint was that the manager would not learn to speak English correctly if I continued to speak English incorrectly. She had a point.

[rlopes]

Amazing.

Newbie Thai-language learners get frustrated picking up a difficult language and blame (1) the แม่ค้า selling som-tam (thanks for the giggle, rlopes) and (2) the entire (xenophobic, should-have-been-colonized) nation of Thailand (thanks for the laugh, David)

Funny and disturbing at the same time!

NaiGreg, it must feel great giggling (how cute) at newbies like me. I'm sure you jumped straight to the expert level you are at now...

[Borzandy]

1. What really bothers me are farangs who assume most Thais can't really understand English.

2. They don't assume you're native English speaker (how would they know exactly what country you're from anyway?), but they do assume you speak English, which you probably do, right?

3. Ideally, yes, but if you foreigners speak so poor Thai, it may be better for us to speak to you in English instead to save time and get on with the business. Our English may be poor, but consider this that your Thai may also be poor. In this case, instead of getting annoyed by a Thai who are unwilling to put up and understand your poor Thai, perhaps you should just get on with your business and try to understand our poor English instead?

For example, if you was gonna buy some "gai yaang", and the vendor replied you "yoo wan fait chikken?", just say "yes", instead of getting annoyed?

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

Funny Thais, 1 or 2% understand correctly English. But usually they say yes responding all the questions.

[ritoyenne]

Oh my god. Little bothered farang is not happy because Thai people try to speak with him in english, and don't want to listen his very poor thai skills ?

Have you considered leaving the kingdom ?

3. It's not about who speaks the language better. In almost any other country if i try to practice the local language people are helpful.
But in Thailand xenophobia gets into the way of being helpful.

Oh my god. So much bullshit in so few words.

Edited May 29, 2014 by ritoyenne

[ezzra]

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

Why do most of you Thai people foolishly believe that all white people want to speak or practice English?This is not England, this is Thailand. You should have more pride in your culture and language than this! Thai people love to say how they were never colonized but your behavior, especially on this issue, says something very different in my opinion.

From the same reasoning that they think that all foreigners are rich, it called stereotyping,

deeply imbedded in the Thai society, and as for their inability to learn to speak a foreign language,

they don't think they need too or too lazy to do so, either way, they don't have the "ear" and the articulations

to catch a foreign language,

[Mole]

Wow, you guys accuse us Thai of stereotyping, while your entire rants are composed of stereotyping of Thai people!

Just look at this sentence:

"From the same reasoning that they think that all foreigners are rich, it called stereotyping,"

What the??

You are saying Thais are stereotyping all foreigners to be rich, but what the hell did you just do??

Edited May 29, 2014 by Mole

[wandasloan]

1. Tell me you don't agree with me then. How many Thais can get beyond the very basics when they say things like "no have" ?

Quite a few millions.

3. My very basic Thai is good enough to order most things. In fact, the seller will waste much more time trying to remember what he learnt in English then vice-versa?

Your very basic Thai sucks. Otherwise the seller who speaks excellent Thai wouldn't be working with English. The reason the seller is doing that is he couldn't understand a word you said. He would much rather speak Thai, trust me here, but has decided it is hopeless if he is ever going to move his business along and get to the customer after you.

1. Tell me you don't agree with me then. How many Thais can get beyond the very basics when they say things like "no have" ?

3. My very basic Thai is good enough to order most things. In fact, the seller will waste much more time trying to remember what he learnt in English then vice-versa?

4. I suppose I should hire you or a relative, right?

I'm going to assume, for the sake of argument, that your Thai is about on a par with your counting to three... er, four in English. Am I right?

Yes, I know, please don't explain the joke.

.

Edited May 29, 2014 by wandasloan

[Just1Voice]

One of the first things I learned in Thai -"Pom poot Thai, dai nid noi. Mai geng", and alwys said with a smile and sometimes a short laugh. And I have yet to find a Thai who, upon hearing that, didn't smile and laugh, and then we both go from there to figure out what I want, or am trying to say.

[kingstonkid]

Other side of coin. Did you think that maybe the reason that they speak English to you is so that they caneither get better with theirenglish or that they want to improve their vocabulary.

The biggest b!tch that English teachers have is that Thai's don't get a chance to use it. Here a kid has a perfect chance and you want to get mad at him or her.

[Rumblecat]

Quite often I think it's a mixture of things- they are being polite or trying to help you or are showing off their English... have to say it's never bothered me. Often Thais get initially confused when a farang starts talking first in Thai as their ears aren't expecting it- it can take a moment or so or even repetition for them to switch gears.

But if you're talking to someone in Thai and their double checking what you're saying with an English response, then it's because your Thai isn't very good and they don't understand you. You might have the words right, but it's possible you are using the wrong tone, or your tone's aren't spot on at least, or you're saying the word with the wrong syllable stresses or speed... If you order something in perfect Thai, they won't feel the need to repeat it back in English to check.

[frogface]

Did it ever occur to you that your thai might be so incomprehensible that it isn't recognised as thai, so they speak to you in English as they don't speak whatever language they think you're speaking?

When I first learned thai I found this to be the case all the time and it was frustrating. Now my thai is far better, people never reply in English and are delighted that I can speak their language.

Breakthrough for my thai pronunciation was learning to read and write so you can nail the tonality. Good luck.

[sanuk711]

I usually use sign language ------ Broke 3 fingers asking for a cornetto last week.

[BudRight]

I've been sitting in a cafe reading a Thai newspaper and the waitress will still fuss around trying to find the English menu with four items on it to present to me in a proud ceremony. Or out with the girlfriend and they only bring one menu. I love when I ask a question and they reply to her. It all makes me feel like a human being trapped in a hideous baboon suit.

[whooshbang]

Had an opposite but amusing experience in my local Family Mart just yesterday when the girl began to talk to me in Thai..... I responded with "i'm sorry but i can not speak thai" .... she continued in talking Thai (smiling away) and i specifically noticed the words "pood" and "Thai" to which i responded "honestly, i can not speak Thai, can you speak english" to which she gave a confused look.... having had enough of her wind up i said (smiling) "ok, pood passat engrit dai mai khrap". She looked up, gave me my change and said "no, can not speak english, have a good evening, see you again"..... we all had a good laugh about it!

Perhaps she initially mistook me for another farang (who could speak good thai). Or perhaps she was teasing me because we both greeted each other with sawadee.... i don't know but my Thai is basic so i stick to proper english as much as possible.

This was in Pattaya Soi Boukaw i might add.

[Balance]

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

Why do most of you Thai people foolishly believe that all white people want to speak or practice English?This is not England, this is Thailand. You should have more pride in your culture and language than this! Thai people love to say how they were never colonized but your behavior, especially on this issue, says something very different in my opinion.

The first time I was in Paris no one would speak English even if they could. I learned French working there, outside a small town the southwest part of the country. My job was to buy things needed at the archaeological site we were digging. I would say something to a shopkeeper and if they had a clue what I meant they would repeat it back in proper French.

This does not work with Thai because it is a tonal language. It took me a while to accept the fact that if you get the tone wrong, the word cannot be "guessed" at. I use my android with Paiboom's Talking Thai dictionary app. It is quick and I can get the pronunciation correct before asking about something and it that does not work, simply play it for the person I am speaking with.

I find that many Thais are pleased when I speak the little Thai that I know. But they, including my wife, do not like to help with the learning. There are a few that will/have corrected my thai, especially classifiers. At 70 it does not make any sense for me to "learn Thai" as I will be dead long before that could be achieved. I am a writer and have enough trouble with English. Besides, at the risk of seeming a bit chauvinistic, there is the practical fact that it is probably more important that Thai's learn English than me becoming fluent in Thai.