Education, Thai health agencies push for reform

[boomerangutang]

In 2013/2014 the MoE got about 460 billion Baht I think, close to 19% of the 2.52 trillion NB.

It's amazing how the Ministry of Education manages to spent their yearly part of the National Budget and get almost nothing done.

Incidentally, though we're told to believe grammar school education is free, it's not. I personally know several hill tribe families who don't send their little kids to school. Why? It's not because there isn't a school nearby (there is), it's because they can't afford it. The reality on the ground is; each child is required to have new uniform, new shoes, new books (not from last year), backpack, etc. This is Thailand, so nothing can be 2nd hand. All has to be bought new, and retailers like it that way.

It's simply too expensive for many hill tribe families, so they keep their kids at home - to wallow in the dirt and play with broken bits of plastic.

[SICHONSTEVE]

In 2013/2014 the MoE got about 460 billion Baht I think, close to 19% of the 2.52 trillion NB.

It's amazing how the Ministry of Education manages to spent their yearly part of the National Budget and get almost nothing done.

Incidentally, though we're told to believe grammar school education is free, it's not. I personally know several hill tribe families who don't send their little kids to school. Why? It's not because there isn't a school nearby (there is), it's because they can't afford it. The reality on the ground is; each child is required to have new uniform, new shoes, new books (not from last year), backpack, etc. This is Thailand, so nothing can be 2nd hand. All has to be bought new, and retailers like it that way.

It's simply too expensive for many hill tribe families, so they keep their kids at home - to wallow in the dirt and play with broken bits of plastic.

So much for ancient cultures!!

[djjamie]

There has been constant and sustained talk from political figures to reform education all to no avail.

I for one welcome the Junta's drive to reform this area and if they approach it as aggressively as the rice payments for the farmers I am sure they will succeed.

I think the Junta also understand education and democracy are also highly correlated so this drive will have a flow on effect that will allow Thai citizens to be better informed and more engaged in democratic processes which will allow them to use the ballot box as a tool to allow the most democratic party to rule.

This link is an interesting article on the correlation between democracy and education and why democracies embrace educational reform to promote a healthy democracy.

[citizen33]

The main health reform mentioned is one that has been mooted by officials in the MoPH for a while, and involves strengthening the role of the keet - the 12 existing health regions. One issue is that these do not cover the same areas as the regional offices of the National Health Security Office (the body that channels the money for the UC scheme). The proposals are partly about better coordination of provider organisations (the MoPH's remit), but some in the NHSO are not keen because they think the MoPH is trying to control the way resources are used. The NHSO had hoped that its own regional offices would become active purchasers and have more influence on how money spent translated into patterns of service development, So there is probably going to be a bit of friction. The NHSO has traditionally been the more progressive organisation, wanting to sweep away some of the more conservative ministry policies. On the other hand the PS's (or is it the Minister's) suggestion about detaching the MoPH from the OCSC would be quite radical and allow more freedom to expand the workforce where it is needed (i.e. not disproportionately in central region). I haven't seen any evidence that the senior MoPH people want to dismantle the universal coverage scheme (though there are some who want to expand private provision), but I wouldn't be surprised to see the 30 baht co-payment go.

Do you mean back to being free as in under Abhisit's government??

Yes, if it happens. Actually though, treatment is sometimes free even now, as it is left to the individual hospital to decide whether to levy the 30 baht charge. This is different from the original arrangement when the charge was mandatory. Getting rid of the fee isn't something Dr Narong has mentioned up to now, but I know that some of the senior policy advisers oppose having a co-payment.

I'm not sure why people on here continually attribute the earlier ending of the fee to Abhisit. It was abolished by the post-coup civilian government in 2007, again when a former Permanent Secretary, Mongkul Na Songkhla, was Public Health Minister,

Edited May 29, 2014 by citizen33

[SICHONSTEVE]

The main health reform mentioned is one that has been mooted by officials in the MoPH for a while, and involves strengthening the role of the keet - the 12 existing health regions. One issue is that these do not cover the same areas as the regional offices of the National Health Security Office (the body that channels the money for the UC scheme). The proposals are partly about better coordination of provider organisations (the MoPH's remit), but some in the NHSO are not keen because they think the MoPH is trying to control the way resources are used. The NHSO had hoped that its own regional offices would become active purchasers and have more influence on how money spent translated into patterns of service development, So there is probably going to be a bit of friction. The NHSO has traditionally been the more progressive organisation, wanting to sweep away some of the more conservative ministry policies. On the other hand the PS's (or is it the Minister's) suggestion about detaching the MoPH from the OCSC would be quite radical and allow more freedom to expand the workforce where it is needed (i.e. not disproportionately in central region). I haven't seen any evidence that the senior MoPH people want to dismantle the universal coverage scheme (though there are some who want to expand private provision), but I wouldn't be surprised to see the 30 baht co-payment go.

Do you mean back to being free as in under Abhisit's government??

Yes, if it happens. Actually though, treatment is sometimes free even now, as it is left to the individual hospital to decide whether to levy the 30 baht charge. This is different from the original arrangement when the charge was mandatory. Getting rid of the fee isn't something Dr Narong has mentioned up to now, but I know that some of the senior policy advisers oppose having a co-payment.

I'm not sure why people on here continually attribute the earlier ending of the fee to Abhisit. It was abolished by the post-coup civilian government in 2007, again when a former Permanent Secretary, Mongkul Na Songla, was Public Health Minister,

Why??

Because under the Thaksin proxy government previous to Abhisit it was 30 baht. Abhisit made it free and then Yingluck taxed people at 30 baht again.

[citizen33]

The main health reform mentioned is one that has been mooted by officials in the MoPH for a while, and involves strengthening the role of the keet - the 12 existing health regions. One issue is that these do not cover the same areas as the regional offices of the National Health Security Office (the body that channels the money for the UC scheme). The proposals are partly about better coordination of provider organisations (the MoPH's remit), but some in the NHSO are not keen because they think the MoPH is trying to control the way resources are used. The NHSO had hoped that its own regional offices would become active purchasers and have more influence on how money spent translated into patterns of service development, So there is probably going to be a bit of friction. The NHSO has traditionally been the more progressive organisation, wanting to sweep away some of the more conservative ministry policies. On the other hand the PS's (or is it the Minister's) suggestion about detaching the MoPH from the OCSC would be quite radical and allow more freedom to expand the workforce where it is needed (i.e. not disproportionately in central region). I haven't seen any evidence that the senior MoPH people want to dismantle the universal coverage scheme (though there are some who want to expand private provision), but I wouldn't be surprised to see the 30 baht co-payment go.

Do you mean back to being free as in under Abhisit's government??

Yes, if it happens. Actually though, treatment is sometimes free even now, as it is left to the individual hospital to decide whether to levy the 30 baht charge. This is different from the original arrangement when the charge was mandatory. Getting rid of the fee isn't something Dr Narong has mentioned up to now, but I know that some of the senior policy advisers oppose having a co-payment.

I'm not sure why people on here continually attribute the earlier ending of the fee to Abhisit. It was abolished by the post-coup civilian government in 2007, again when a former Permanent Secretary, Mongkul Na Songla, was Public Health Minister,

Why??

Because under the Thaksin proxy government previous to Abhisit it was 30 baht. Abhisit made it free and then Yingluck taxed people at 30 baht again.

All I can do is point you in the right direction, but this seems almost a doctrinal issue for some TVF regulars and they will not listen. I was wrong in one detail, which is that the date was November 2006. These things are easily checked! Of course, the PM at that time was Surayud Chulanont.

http://uhcforward.org/reforms/compare/funding/20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongkol_Na_Songkhla

Edited May 29, 2014 by citizen33

[Emster23]

Need to get basics taught before going for the fancy stuff. Trying to build on sand otherwise. I was astounded at how little my gf had learned in Thai schools. They need problem solving, thinking skills and teachers who know something, aren't afraid of students who ask questions.... etc etc.

[h90]

Health does not seem to bad but there is no doubt that education needs a big shake up in all sectors.

However there needs to be caution exercised in this as those with pet projects may see this as a good time to try to foist them on a military administration that really knows little about the problems or how to approach fixing them.

If they are not careful they could well end up with things that have been pushed by groups for their own benefit rather than the greater good.

Health is bad...some hospitals have no money for any meaningful treatment....but OK it is relative easy to fix....

[SICHONSTEVE]

I think that you should do some checking yourself my friend!!!

Please tell me how much it was under Thaksin's 30 baht healthcare scheme (bit of a clue there methinks). OK, do you deny that Abhisit made it free?? Third part, how much was it under Yingluck/Thaksin's proxy government following Abhisit,

I think that you will find it , in order, to be 30 - 0 - 30 baht so why do I need to be pointed in your direction if I am factually correct?

[citizen33]

I think that you should do some checking yourself my friend!!!

Please tell me how much it was under Thaksin's 30 baht healthcare scheme (bit of a clue there methinks). OK, do you deny that Abhisit made it free?? Third part, how much was it under Yingluck/Thaksin's proxy government following Abhisit,

I think that you will find it , in order, to be 30 - 0 - 30 baht so why do I need to be pointed in your direction if I am factually correct?

If you really want to live in your own bubble carry on. The fact that the 30 baht co-payment was abolished in November 2006 (when Abhsiit was not in office) is all over the web (see my links) and in loads of published articles. Beyond that, I was working in this area myself and can remember the events.

Newspaper report from 2006 attached, but I get the sense you may struggle to read it.

http://english.people.com.cn/200610/13/eng20061013_311620.html

Edited May 29, 2014 by citizen33

[Baerboxer]

So this senior academics answer to the lamentable state of higher education is to start a new ministry?

Wouldn't he be better off starting closer to home and stop some students buying their place at university, paying others to write their essays for them, buying a top class degree and then using that degree and more money to get a top job? A new ministry isn't needed for that, just non-corrupt academics.

The problem with the system is that it means that many ministries, QANGO's and businesses are not run by Thailands brightest and best, but by the children of the rich and this is a break on national development.

Your knowledge of Thai universities is incorrect. That's the problem with believing urban myths. Like saying all Oxford university students are "hooray henry's" from only public schools who all indulge in secret drinking clubs.

[Baerboxer]

Need to get basics taught before going for the fancy stuff. Trying to build on sand otherwise. I was astounded at how little my gf had learned in Thai schools. They need problem solving, thinking skills and teachers who know something, aren't afraid of students who ask questions.... etc etc.

What I find astounding is that student's, particularly at the post graduate level have the ability to produce good work comparable in standard to other countries. However, once they're out of university they switch back to ignoring problems hoping they'll go away, procrastinating, avoiding responsibility, avoiding making decisions, avoiding challenge and conflict and seeming unable to follow logical thought or cause and effect.

These are cultural behavioral issues rather than solely education. There are many different schools here, public, private, international and some very good universities, public, private and international. Take a mixture of Thai students from these, and you really can't tell the difference. Most all behave the same and just don't want to use the skills they've been acquiring.

[boomerangutang]

There has been constant and sustained talk from political figures to reform education all to no avail.

I for one welcome the Junta's drive to reform this area and if they approach it as aggressively as the rice payments for the farmers I am sure they will succeed.

Are you assuming army brass can fix the faulty Thai education system? Army brass are products of that system, therefore can't be expected to think of innovative concepts to improve it. Also, Army brass likely got promoted for payments (to higher ups) and social connections, not necessarily on level of skills and problem-solving abilities.

One of the richest men in a neighborhood near me, is president of two colleges. It's no surprise how he got so rich: teachers are required to pay higher-ups to get promoted. Same happens in hospitals, police, military, and probably also government and corporations.

[rubl]

I think that you should do some checking yourself my friend!!!

Please tell me how much it was under Thaksin's 30 baht healthcare scheme (bit of a clue there methinks). OK, do you deny that Abhisit made it free?? Third part, how much was it under Yingluck/Thaksin's proxy government following Abhisit,

I think that you will find it , in order, to be 30 - 0 - 30 baht so why do I need to be pointed in your direction if I am factually correct?

If you really want to live in your own bubble carry on. The fact that the 30 baht co-payment was abolished in November 2006 (when Abhsiit was not in office) is all over the web (see my links) and in loads of published articles. Beyond that, I was working in this area myself and can remember the events.

Newspaper report from 2006 attached, but I get the sense you may struggle to read it.

http://english.people.com.cn/200610/13/eng20061013_311620.html

Your right here. It was under the Gen. Surayut government that the 30-baht was dropped. Indicated October 2006, but effective early 2007 I think.

[rubl]

In 2013/2014 the MoE got about 460 billion Baht I think, close to 19% of the 2.52 trillion NB.

It's amazing how the Ministry of Education manages to spent their yearly part of the National Budget and get almost nothing done.

Incidentally, though we're told to believe grammar school education is free, it's not. I personally know several hill tribe families who don't send their little kids to school. Why? It's not because there isn't a school nearby (there is), it's because they can't afford it. The reality on the ground is; each child is required to have new uniform, new shoes, new books (not from last year), backpack, etc. This is Thailand, so nothing can be 2nd hand. All has to be bought new, and retailers like it that way.

It's simply too expensive for many hill tribe families, so they keep their kids at home - to wallow in the dirt and play with broken bits of plastic.

The government subsidy on school clothes and book was scrapped by the Yingluck government in favour of the tabletPC program. Mind you the subsidy didn't cover the costs completely. Even Abhisit on campaign tour in 2011 was admonished by a lady in Bangkok telling him 300 Baht (I think) was not enough for school clothes.

[smutcakes]

It seems someone whats to set up their own empire. You only need the Ministry of Education.

They are not empire building!!

They have put people in positions that know what they are doing and are there because they are the best people for the job (not Thaksin mates or supporters who are placed there for HIS benefit).

At last the country is being turned around and once it is then I hope that the Northern people will swallow their pride and realise this by voting for capable people rather than liars and people 'in it' for their own good and benefit (PTP)!!

Ask the rice farmers who is better and cares for them out of Thaksin and Prayuth at this juncture!!

Tell me about these people and what makes them the best people for the job?

No problem with getting out the corrupt people who were affiliated with TS, but simply replacing them with your mates is exactly what TS is criticized for doing, and dare i say it what his sister was dismissed for!

It is all so transparent what is happening that it would be funny if it was not going to be so serious and dangerous later down the line.

Of all the problems the country has, the biggest things that seem to be on the agenda are resurrecting the hugely criticized infrastructure bill, and giving all the democrat old boys/PDRC funders/military mates jobs which they have proved time and again they are incapable of doing.

They are so far out of touch of reality it is insane.

[rubl]

It seems someone whats to set up their own empire. You only need the Ministry of Education.

They are not empire building!!

They have put people in positions that know what they are doing and are there because they are the best people for the job (not Thaksin mates or supporters who are placed there for HIS benefit).

At last the country is being turned around and once it is then I hope that the Northern people will swallow their pride and realise this by voting for capable people rather than liars and people 'in it' for their own good and benefit (PTP)!!

Ask the rice farmers who is better and cares for them out of Thaksin and Prayuth at this juncture!!

Tell me about these people and what makes them the best people for the job?

No problem with getting out the corrupt people who were affiliated with TS, but simply replacing them with your mates is exactly what TS is criticized for doing, and dare i say it what his sister was dismissed for!

It is all so transparent what is happening that it would be funny if it was not going to be so serious and dangerous later down the line.

Of all the problems the country has, the biggest things that seem to be on the agenda are resurrecting the hugely criticized infrastructure bill, and giving all the democrat old boys/PDRC funders/military mates jobs which they have proved time and again they are incapable of doing.

They are so far out of touch of reality it is insane.

You assume that those replacement 'buddies' are corrupt like the 'corrupt people' Thaksin put in ?

It would seem you are somewhat out of touch with reality or maybe unwilling to accept it. May I respectfully ask for six months, like Ms. Yingluck asked us when she just started? Mind you big brother had his new shiny passport within four months after the elections already

[smutcakes]

It seems someone whats to set up their own empire. You only need the Ministry of Education.

They are not empire building!!

They have put people in positions that know what they are doing and are there because they are the best people for the job (not Thaksin mates or supporters who are placed there for HIS benefit).

At last the country is being turned around and once it is then I hope that the Northern people will swallow their pride and realise this by voting for capable people rather than liars and people 'in it' for their own good and benefit (PTP)!!

Ask the rice farmers who is better and cares for them out of Thaksin and Prayuth at this juncture!!

Tell me about these people and what makes them the best people for the job?

No problem with getting out the corrupt people who were affiliated with TS, but simply replacing them with your mates is exactly what TS is criticized for doing, and dare i say it what his sister was dismissed for!

It is all so transparent what is happening that it would be funny if it was not going to be so serious and dangerous later down the line.

Of all the problems the country has, the biggest things that seem to be on the agenda are resurrecting the hugely criticized infrastructure bill, and giving all the democrat old boys/PDRC funders/military mates jobs which they have proved time and again they are incapable of doing.

They are so far out of touch of reality it is insane.

You assume that those replacement 'buddies' are corrupt like the 'corrupt people' Thaksin put in ?

It would seem you are somewhat out of touch with reality or maybe unwilling to accept it. May I respectfully ask for six months, like Ms. Yingluck asked us when she just started? Mind you big brother had his new shiny passport within four months after the elections already

I think as a gesture of good will the media should request that all NPCO leaders and appointed persons should declare all assets to the NACC...........

[mok199]

i had my first child ,the delivery at banglamung 16/05..i was so amazed at the age of the girls and the (soon to be gone) fathers,i would ballpark it at 17,education is paramount,but if the woman has 3 children by the time she is 23,her hope for a future is zsero to nil..i believe every one deserves a chance to get an education,we have a country with the youth male running rampant,and creating pregnancy that just perpetuate the poverty cycle...and yes i blame the males who prowl in packs , looking for lonley,impresionabale girls,and they use romantic small talk and thier cute hair to seduce these nieve,lonley,bored, girls..if thailand is to rise above this education level,it must create an enviorment that will give girls hope and empowerment..in my opinion the thai woman are the thailands strongest assett,,they are smart,ambitious and motivated,,as the males are just lazy leeches..unless you call driving a scooter taxi ''work''....,''protect thailands woman''.they want to learn,they want to succede,

[rubl]

Tell me about these people and what makes them the best people for the job?

No problem with getting out the corrupt people who were affiliated with TS, but simply replacing them with your mates is exactly what TS is criticized for doing, and dare i say it what his sister was dismissed for!

It is all so transparent what is happening that it would be funny if it was not going to be so serious and dangerous later down the line.

Of all the problems the country has, the biggest things that seem to be on the agenda are resurrecting the hugely criticized infrastructure bill, and giving all the democrat old boys/PDRC funders/military mates jobs which they have proved time and again they are incapable of doing.

They are so far out of touch of reality it is insane.

You assume that those replacement 'buddies' are corrupt like the 'corrupt people' Thaksin put in ?

It would seem you are somewhat out of touch with reality or maybe unwilling to accept it. May I respectfully ask for six months, like Ms. Yingluck asked us when she just started? Mind you big brother had his new shiny passport within four months after the elections already

I think as a gesture of good will the media should request that all NPCO leaders and appointed persons should declare all assets to the NACC...........

I think you mean "as a gesture of good will the NCPO leader and appointed advisors will declare all their assets to the NACC". Mind you that sounds too democratic and is not necessary as all but one article of the constitution are suspended

The media requesting such would not be a show of good will but only irritate the good general.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

i had my first child ,the delivery at banglamung 16/05..i was so amazed at the age of the girls and the (soon to be gone) fathers,i would ballpark it at 17,education is paramount,but if the woman has 3 children by the time she is 23,her hope for a future is zsero to nil..i believe every one deserves a chance to get an education,we have a country with the youth male running rampant,and creating pregnancy that just perpetuate the poverty cycle...and yes i blame the males who prowl in packs , looking for lonley,impresionabale girls,and they use romantic small talk and thier cute hair to seduce these nieve,lonley,bored, girls..if thailand is to rise above this education level,it must create an enviorment that will give girls hope and empowerment..in my opinion the thai woman are the thailands strongest assett,,they are smart,ambitious and motivated,,as the males are just lazy leeches..unless you call driving a scooter taxi ''work''....,''protect thailands woman''.they want to learn,they want to succede,

Funny! When I last heard my sister-in-law who has 2 kids and no husband around talking about her new potential BF, she asked me --in front of him-- whether or not he was handsome! He was! Maybe the problem is not just those lazy men! Many women are VERY superficial ... too! BTW, who spends 1 year or 2 at the temple while women go to universities? A more balanced analysis is needed!

[EnlightenedAtheist]

Need to get basics taught before going for the fancy stuff. Trying to build on sand otherwise. I was astounded at how little my gf had learned in Thai schools. They need problem solving, thinking skills and teachers who know something, aren't afraid of students who ask questions.... etc etc.

Just ask teachers to give a healthy chunk of the marks to asking questions. It is relatively easy to keep a tally! You could have a more complex system that would give more points for more complex questions too!