Unprofessional and unskilled English Teacher's do you feel guilty?

[wilcopops]

Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid.

Some countries like Saudi offer high salaries to teachers....why? Well for a start,it isn't a popular destination.

A lot of what is paid is down to market forces and a basic industry standard.

The payment and benefits can be regraded in various ways, the basic salary, hourly rates, housing costs, cost of living, and QUALITY of life.

In reality Thailand rates pretty highly on the overall equation and attracts in general reasonable teachers.

Salaries in Europe tend to be similar and the cost of living is much higher - at least in Wesern Europe - but of course lots of people want to live in Italy or Spain. the Czech republic is hugely popular.

Some of the views expressed about salaries on this thread are simply a comination of ignorance and parochial perspectives and really don't reflect the situation with TEFL on a worldwide scale.

There also seems to be a confusion with teaching" - as general occupation and TEFL which is a subject in itself that is tight and requires teachers trained in that particular field.

What IS a problem is that there are some teachers on this thread - we k=now who they are - who have no idea what TEFL is or involves and are repeatedly expressing opinions that totally irrelevant.

Edited June 8, 2014 by wilcopops

[thailiketoo]

Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid.

Some countries like Saudi offer high salaries to teachers....why? Well for a start,it isn't a popular destination.

A lot of what is paid is down to market forces and a basic industry standard.

The payment and benefits can be regraded in various ways, the basic salary, hourly rates, housing costs, cost of living, and QUALITY of life.

In reality Thailand rates pretty highly on the overall equation and attracts in general reasonable teachers.

Salaries in Europe tend to be similar and the cost of living is much higher - at least in Wesern Europe - but of course lots of people want to live in Italy or Spain. the Czech republic is hugely popular.

Some of the views expressed about salaries on this thread are simply a comination of ignorance and parochial perspectives and really don't reflect the situation with TEFL on a worldwide scale.

There also seems to be a confusion with teaching" - as general occupation and TEFL which is a subject in itself that is tight and requires teachers trained in that particular field.

What IS a problem is that there are some teachers on this thread - we k=now who they are - who have no idea what TEFL is or involves and are repeatedly expressing opinions that totally irrelevant.

You wrote, "Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid." Now that statement is stupid.

What is the starting rate of a Thai teacher? I realize you have never been to Thailand or been a teacher but you can google.

7 - 8,000 THB per month is the starting salary for a Thai national at a government school. This is certainly true of Chiang Mai as I interviewed the heads of the Chiang Mai Ministry of Education a few years ago. The interview:

My wife's salary on a gouvernment school is only 20k and she is teacher for 16 years. The starting salary is 7k. She works 5-6 days 8 houres at least.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/391644-chiang-mai-teacher-salaries-qualifications/

Edited June 9, 2014 by SlyAnimal
link to commercial site removed

[wilcopops]

Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid.

Some countries like Saudi offer high salaries to teachers....why? Well for a start,it isn't a popular destination.

A lot of what is paid is down to market forces and a basic industry standard.

The payment and benefits can be regraded in various ways, the basic salary, hourly rates, housing costs, cost of living, and QUALITY of life.

In reality Thailand rates pretty highly on the overall equation and attracts in general reasonable teachers.

Salaries in Europe tend to be similar and the cost of living is much higher - at least in Wesern Europe - but of course lots of people want to live in Italy or Spain. the Czech republic is hugely popular.

Some of the views expressed about salaries on this thread are simply a comination of ignorance and parochial perspectives and really don't reflect the situation with TEFL on a worldwide scale.

There also seems to be a confusion with teaching" - as general occupation and TEFL which is a subject in itself that is tight and requires teachers trained in that particular field.

What IS a problem is that there are some teachers on this thread - we k=now who they are - who have no idea what TEFL is or involves and are repeatedly expressing opinions that totally irrelevant.

You wrote, "Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid." Now that statement is stupid.

What is the starting rate of a Thai teacher? I realize you have never been to Thailand or been a teacher but you can google.

7 - 8,000 THB per month is the starting salary for a Thai national at a government school. This is certainly true of Chiang Mai as I interviewed the heads of the Chiang Mai Ministry of Education a few years ago. The interview:

My wife's salary on a gouvernment school is only 20k and she is teacher for 16 years. The starting salary is 7k. She works 5-6 days 8 houres at least.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/391644-chiang-mai-teacher-salaries-qualifications/

http://seetefl.com

the crass stupidity of your post leaves me flabbergasted - you obviously haven't a clue about what I was positing, which is the difference between "teaching" and TEFL. It is quite clear to me now that bereft of any comprehension of the topic in hand you are just determined to gainsay everyone - what a ridiculous stance to take.

[thailiketoo]

Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid.

Some countries like Saudi offer high salaries to teachers....why? Well for a start,it isn't a popular destination.

A lot of what is paid is down to market forces and a basic industry standard.

The payment and benefits can be regraded in various ways, the basic salary, hourly rates, housing costs, cost of living, and QUALITY of life.

In reality Thailand rates pretty highly on the overall equation and attracts in general reasonable teachers.

Salaries in Europe tend to be similar and the cost of living is much higher - at least in Wesern Europe - but of course lots of people want to live in Italy or Spain. the Czech republic is hugely popular.

Some of the views expressed about salaries on this thread are simply a comination of ignorance and parochial perspectives and really don't reflect the situation with TEFL on a worldwide scale.

There also seems to be a confusion with teaching" - as general occupation and TEFL which is a subject in itself that is tight and requires teachers trained in that particular field.

What IS a problem is that there are some teachers on this thread - we k=now who they are - who have no idea what TEFL is or involves and are repeatedly expressing opinions that totally irrelevant.

You wrote, "Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid." Now that statement is stupid.

What is the starting rate of a Thai teacher? I realize you have never been to Thailand or been a teacher but you can google.

7 - 8,000 THB per month is the starting salary for a Thai national at a government school. This is certainly true of Chiang Mai as I interviewed the heads of the Chiang Mai Ministry of Education a few years ago. The interview:

My wife's salary on a gouvernment school is only 20k and she is teacher for 16 years. The starting salary is 7k. She works 5-6 days 8 houres at least.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/391644-chiang-mai-teacher-salaries-qualifications/

http://seetefl.com

the crass stupidity of your post leaves me flabbergasted - you obviously haven't a clue about what I was positing, which is the difference between "teaching" and TEFL. It is quite clear to me now that bereft of any comprehension of the topic in hand you are just determined to gainsay everyone - what a ridiculous stance to take.

I can discuss an issue without being insulting. Some people can answer a simple question others can't.

You wrote, "Some of the views expressed about salaries on this thread are simply a comination of ignorance and parochial perspectives and really don't reflect the situation with TEFL on a worldwide scale."

This topic is not about TEFL on a worldwide scale.

[wilcopops]

Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid.

Some countries like Saudi offer high salaries to teachers....why? Well for a start,it isn't a popular destination.

A lot of what is paid is down to market forces and a basic industry standard.

The payment and benefits can be regraded in various ways, the basic salary, hourly rates, housing costs, cost of living, and QUALITY of life.

In reality Thailand rates pretty highly on the overall equation and attracts in general reasonable teachers.

Salaries in Europe tend to be similar and the cost of living is much higher - at least in Wesern Europe - but of course lots of people want to live in Italy or Spain. the Czech republic is hugely popular.

Some of the views expressed about salaries on this thread are simply a comination of ignorance and parochial perspectives and really don't reflect the situation with TEFL on a worldwide scale.

There also seems to be a confusion with teaching" - as general occupation and TEFL which is a subject in itself that is tight and requires teachers trained in that particular field.

What IS a problem is that there are some teachers on this thread - we k=now who they are - who have no idea what TEFL is or involves and are repeatedly expressing opinions that totally irrelevant.

You wrote, "Throwing numbers about is of course just stupid." Now that statement is stupid.

What is the starting rate of a Thai teacher? I realize you have never been to Thailand or been a teacher but you can google.

7 - 8,000 THB per month is the starting salary for a Thai national at a government school. This is certainly true of Chiang Mai as I interviewed the heads of the Chiang Mai Ministry of Education a few years ago. The interview:

My wife's salary on a gouvernment school is only 20k and she is teacher for 16 years. The starting salary is 7k. She works 5-6 days 8 houres at least.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/391644-chiang-mai-teacher-salaries-qualifications/

http://seetefl.com

the crass stupidity of your post leaves me flabbergasted - you obviously haven't a clue about what I was positing, which is the difference between "teaching" and TEFL. It is quite clear to me now that bereft of any comprehension of the topic in hand you are just determined to gainsay everyone - what a ridiculous stance to take.

I can discuss an issue without being insulting. Some people can answer a simple question others can't.

You wrote, "Some of the views expressed about salaries on this thread are simply a comination of ignorance and parochial perspectives and really don't reflect the situation with TEFL on a worldwide scale."

This topic is not about TEFL on a worldwide scale.

QED

[Scott]

An inflammatory post in a language other than English has been removed.

[fabianfred]

I would suggest that someone who has learnt English as a second language is better able to teach it than a native Englishman. Everyone learns their mother tongue the natural way at home from their parents... and go to school for the grammar etc. I'm sure a second language learner can teach it to others who are also second language learners better.

[wilcopops]

I would suggest that someone who has learnt English as a second language is better able to teach it than a native Englishman. Everyone learns their mother tongue the natural way at home from their parents... and go to school for the grammar etc. I'm sure a second language learner can teach it to others who are also second language learners better.

You may feel "sure" but you would be wrong.

"Everyone learns their mother tongue the natural way at home from their parents. " this is actually the basis of TEFL.. and has beeb proved VERY effective - unfortunately many native speakers are unaware of how they should be teaching and salt start to invent their own ineffecive theories and methods.

The Teaching of language is a much debated and researched topic. How we learn and how we teach is not immediately self-evident. The methods used to teach a language can vary a lot, buy as seen on this thread, it isn't helped by those who try to teach with little or no knowledge of how language is acquired.

What one often has to decide is the kind of language the students need or should be tight - this may have quite a lot of bearing on the approach taken.

TEFL is a method of teaching that uses only the target language in class - this has shown to be very effect when compared to other methods. You are referring to the GTM - Grammar translation Method, which flies in the face of current theory but appeals to many teachers as they feel "safe" trying to break a language down into components as very likely it was the way thy were taught.

the rsults can be sudents who although they have confused and isolated perspective on (English) grammar, have no ability to communicate in the language. Classic example is the UK's ability to speak French.

It would be nice to say at TEFL exists in its purest form everywhere, but practicality tends to find the students' tongue impinging on the situation and other variations depending on circumstances.

In a Thai school - which is only ONE of the pleas English is taught in Thailand you'll find that native Thai teachers are given the task of teaching English grammar (often not very well) and a native speaker is called in to take the spoken or TEFL side of things.

This situation is common in schools all over the world where they still cling to teaching methods that stem from the 19th century.

[somchaismith]

I see that Thailand's well up there, not!

"Stop me if you've heard this before: nobody teaches English abroad for the money, right? Actually...wrong. Although teaching English overseas will never get you on a list of world billionaires, it can come with a reasonable salary. More and more college graduates are turning to teaching when they struggle to find jobs in their home countries, and they're managing to make a decent living doing it. Although some countries still pay very little (like teaching gigs in Thailand or Central America), other countries, particularly teaching jobs in the Middle East and Asia, are compensating English teachers with surprisingly decent wages. The highest paid ESL jobs can often be found is these parts of the world.

Keep in mind that high salaries are not always everything: weigh up the local cost of living and benefit packages to determine how much you'll be able to save during your teaching stint. How much do ESL teachers make? Anywhere from $500 a month to upwards of $4000. To hell with breaking even: read on for the countries where ESL teacher salaries are the highest."

http://www.gooverseas.com/blog/esl-teacher-salaries-9-countries-where-youll-make-bank?utm_content=bufferfa7e5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[wilcopops]

I see that Thailand's well up there, not!

"Stop me if you've heard this before: nobody teaches English abroad for the money, right? Actually...wrong. Although teaching English overseas will never get you on a list of world billionaires, it can come with a reasonable salary. More and more college graduates are turning to teaching when they struggle to find jobs in their home countries, and they're managing to make a decent living doing it. Although some countries still pay very little (like teaching gigs in Thailand or Central America), other countries, particularly teaching jobs in the Middle East and Asia, are compensating English teachers with surprisingly decent wages. The highest paid ESL jobs can often be found is these parts of the world.

Keep in mind that high salaries are not always everything: weigh up the local cost of living and benefit packages to determine how much you'll be able to save during your teaching stint. How much do ESL teachers make? Anywhere from $500 a month to upwards of $4000. To hell with breaking even: read on for the countries where ESL teacher salaries are the highest."

http://www.gooverseas.com/blog/esl-teacher-salaries-9-countries-where-youll-make-bank?utm_content=bufferfa7e5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

If you are trying to imply by this that Thai pay is below average then your implication does not follow on....the salaries offered in Thailand are on a par with most of the world.

The other implication is that by offering more money you get better teachers.....again this doesn't necessarily follow as the places offering overly generous salaries are often places that are least popular amongst applicants.

Edited June 10, 2014 by wilcopops

[thailiketoo]

First the specifics. I worked for the Korean government as the only foreign teacher in a small school of about 2,000 students. I worked 40 hours a week and made almost 2 million KRW (about 1800 US dollars) a month with my accommodation paid for. I had government health insurance, which was always paid correctly and on time, plus I paid an amount of money (which my school matched) into a monthly pension plan. When I completed my one-year contract, I received one month's bonus, flight reimbursement, as well as all my pension back (it was a good chunk of change.)

Here in Thailand, I work for a small "international" school outside of the city. I work 45 hours a week and make about 47,000 baht after taxes (which I didn't have to pay in Korea.) I get health insurance but worry about if and when I will get my paycheck and I get frustrated with the management on a daily basis. I have a two year contract and if I complete it I will receive 15,000 baht for a bonus. That pretty much sums up all the perks at this job, but hey, we don't come to Thailand to make money, do we?

http://www.ajarn.com/blogs/elizabeth-frantz-larson/thailand-vs-korea/

What countries pay less than Thailand for degreed English teachers? Must be Ghana and the Philippines because there is no problem getting professional teachers from both of those countries to come to Thailand.

http://www.gooverseas.com/blog/esl-teacher-salaries-9-countries-where-youll-make-bank

Stop me if you've heard this before: nobody teaches English abroad for the money, right? Actually...wrong. Although teaching English overseas will never get you on a list of world billionaires, it can come with a reasonable salary. More and more college graduates are turning to teaching when they struggle to find jobs in their home countries, and they're managing to make a decent living doing it. Although some countries still pay very little (like teaching gigs in Thailand or Central America), other countries, particularly teaching jobs in the Middle East and Asia, are compensating English teachers with surprisingly decent wages. The highest paid ESL jobs can often be found is these parts of the world.

Edited June 10, 2014 by thailiketoo

[JLCrab]

Well that sure sounds like a comedown to me from a full professor / department chair at a US college / university which would be at least $US 100K per year plus benefits. (Post #355 this topic)

Edited June 10, 2014 by JLCrab

[KevWaters]

Native English Speakers are hired to give conversational English lessons, not grammar. They have Thai teachers who have trained for years delivering those lessons so do not worry about it. Also, these English Camps are just for fun and only come around usually once a term.

[craigt3365]

A few off topic and rude posts have been removed from view.

[Neeranam]

monthly pension plan. When I completed my one-year contract, I received one month's bonus, flight reimbursement, as well as all my pension back (it was a good chunk of change.)

Here in Thailand, I work for a small "international" school outside of the city. I work 45 hours a week and make about 47,000 baht after taxes (which I didn't have to pay in Korea.) I get health insurance but worry about if and when I will get my paycheck and I get frustrated with the management on a daily basis. I have a two year contract and if I complete it I will receive 15,000 baht for a bonus. That pretty much sums up all the perks at this job, but hey, we don't come to Thailand to make money, do we?

Why on earth work 45 hours a week when you can get a gig at a university working 12 hours a week. I used to teach English and did that, only getting 30k a month but getting 1000 an hour for overtime.

I also worked for a corporate company getting 60k a month for about 25 hours a week. This was over 10 years ago.

[Gecko123]

Crickets, you have any thoughts you'd like to share on this subject?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Gecko123

[EmptyHead]

I know some Thais who could teach you a thing or two about English. We are reading your posts, you know! There's no need for a NES.

As for unskilled, its called learning! What's important is that the teacher wants to improve and tries to improve. They are just human after all.

Also, Thailand is not really known for competency, except in Muay Thai (and a few other things), so don't come here and complain!

Even teachers in the west have to go through a trial period before they get their teachers licenses. We have to learn on the job, like every other profession.

Edited January 26, 2015 by EmptyHead