Private sector believes Thai rice payments will help stimulate economy

[webfact]

Private sector believes rice payments will help stimulate economy

BANGKOK, 30 May 2014 (NNT) - The private sector has expressed confidence that the Thai economy will grow more after the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) gives overdue payments to rice farmers while suggesting all sectors to help develop the quality of life of farmers urgently.

Deputy Chairman of the Thai Chamber of Commerce Wichai Atsaratsakon who is also spokesman of seven key private organizations said he believed overdue rice payments totaling 100 billion baht could generate 2-3 times as much in the economic system or around 200-300 billion baht. Many more ten billions were expected to circulate in the economy during the coming World Cup 2014, Mr Wichai said.

The University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce has predicted that the rice payments and the World Cup this year will help contribute to the GDP growth rate by at least 0.5%.

The deputy chairman of the Thai Chamber of Commerce also suggested that the most sustainable solution to Thai farmers’ problems was agricultural reform and development of the quality of life of the farmers. They would be able to earn a sustainable income by decreasing the costs of production while increasing production with assistance from all sectors in terms of rice strain development, new agricultural methods and agricultural zoning, Mr Wanchai said.


-- NNT 2014-05-30

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[waza]

Good news for the rice farmers and their local economies. Now its time to break the back of the rural debt cycle.

[ezzra]

I don't understand something here, has any thing changed in the rice scheme at all

or the good times will still roll on with guaranteed payment for what ever rice you

bring to the government? have any body learned any thing, and how those payments

are going to stimulate the economy? all that money will go to pay debts, and not

for new investments I'm sure....

[thumper101]

I don't understand something here, has any thing changed in the rice scheme at all

or the good times will still roll on with guaranteed payment for what ever rice you

bring to the government? have any body learned any thing, and how those payments

are going to stimulate the economy? all that money will go to pay debts, and not

for new investments I'm sure....

Most of that money will go into new planting.

The government won't be buying any more rice from the farmers, that is 100% guaranteed.

Cheaper production costs might help, but increasing yield won't help one bit, more rice means lower prices, and we already got a shitload of unsold rice in Thailand.

The problems facing rice farmers have only just begun.

At least 30% to 40% of rice farmers need to be steered away from rice planting for 2 to 3 years to recover the industry. There are also massive global yields forecast for this year.

You will all see exactly what I mean by about October/November time when the beast starts rearing its ugly head, the farmers will be a lot worse than they were this year, because all 4,5 million of them will be affected, not just a million.

I wouldn't be surprised if they all revert back to praising the Thaksin rice scam policy, and blaming everything on the Junta. Even though deep down they know the rice scam caused all their new problems.

Watch this space.

[Eric Loh]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

[djjamie]

Agricultural reform is paramount. If the rice farmers had a sustainable industry the 400 billion + lost in this scheme would have paid for duel track trains, port upgrades, rural road upgrades, logistic hub and customs upgrades under the PTP funding proposal. The farmers would be self reliant to boot.

There are 2.59 million farmers that won't receive this payment. 4 of which live in a house just outside Kalasin and are in the same state of perpetual poverty they have been for 15 years. They are the reason why this reform is critical.

Help the people that need it. Don't help the people that don't.

Edited May 30, 2014 by djjamie

[Luk Mhee]

Not only step up the economy, but give the farmers a chance to breathe again. I believe the next step should be to cancel the rice pledging scheme, thereby opening the doors to a free economy, which in turn would improve the rice quality, which would put us back on track in the race for high quality rice internationally.

Besides this would it not be a good idea to give the farmers an opportunity to earn more money on their off season days by employing them to help maintain the roads, build bridges, and buildings in their area, instead of relying on imported labor? This would also put a stop to the inhuman abuse on the employee.

[rubl]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

[Eric Loh]

Is the rice subsidy a bad policy or just a victim of politics? It is not only rice that get subsidized; rubber gets a chunky subsidy of 22B to offset low price and the government bought rubber at higher than market price to help the rubber farmers. Nothing heard from Suterp about this. Perhaps the pledging price was unrealistic and not really help by the high world production and plumeting price. Things may be different if rice prices were raising which may happen this year as El Nino strike. Mind you, most countries even the rich have large subsidies for agri products and for good reasons.

[Choonpon]

Rice payment to the farmers- that is a good start for sure:)

Looking forward to more positive news soon:)

[Thai at Heart]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

I love it when people talk about "losing" the rice money. It shows a very poor understanding of the multiplier effect.

[billsmart]

The rice subsidies should be continued. Thailand's wealth needs to be constantly redistributed from the urban to the rural areas. This subsidy along with other farming-related subsidies will help do that.

[issanaus]

The rice subsidies should be continued. Thailand's wealth needs to be constantly redistributed from the urban to the rural areas. This subsidy along with other farming-related subsidies will help do that.

Most of the money went into the hands of those that did not need it, not into the hands of the very poor.

Continuation of the Rice Pledging Scheme maybe "Smart Politics" but it is not smart economic or social policy.

The payments of the debts to the farmers was good economic policy in that it used existing debt to stimulate the economy as well as provide some justice. However there are a lot better ways to provide target help to the rural poor than the continuation of a policy that was dishonest and ill-conceived that was manifestly mal administered.

[Dogmatix]

I don't understand something here, has any thing changed in the rice scheme at all

or the good times will still roll on with guaranteed payment for what ever rice you

bring to the government? have any body learned any thing, and how those payments

are going to stimulate the economy? all that money will go to pay debts, and not

for new investments I'm sure....

There is no rice pledging scheme for 2014.

[p_brownstone]

Good news for the rice farmers and their local economies. Now its time to break the back of the rural debt cycle.

In the VAST majority of cases this scheme has in fact cemented the Thai farmers into their Debt Cycle.

Their rice was "pledged" months ago and delivered to Government to Silos etc. and the farmers were given pieces of paper "guaranteeing" them payment from the Government.

That payment never materialised - so the Farmers had no rice to sell on the market, and, waiting waiting months for the oft-promised payment from the Government, they they had no cash to spend; neither on day-to-day living expenses nor for their future seed, fertiliser or other necessities for their next crop.

So - what happened?

Desperate Farmers were obliged to use the pieces of paper issued by their "Government" as Security for yet more Loans from the local "Tow Kae" - invariably at exorbitant interest rates - simply to live day to day and plan for their next crop.

The recent long delayed payments to farmers are in no way a stimulus to the Thai Economy - the effect has already been discounted and offset because the money has basically already been spent.

Patrick

Edited May 30, 2014 by p_brownstone

[waza]

Good news for the rice farmers and their local economies. Now its time to break the back of the rural debt cycle.

In the VAST majority of cases this scheme has in fact cemented the Thai farmers into their Debt Cycle.

Their rice was "pledged" months ago and delivered to Government to Silos etc. and the farmers were given pieces of paper "guaranteeing" them payment from the Government.

That payment never materialised - so the Farmers had no rice to sell on the market, and, waiting waiting months for the oft-promised payment from the Government, they they had no cash to spend; neither on day-to-day living expenses nor for their future seed, fertiliser or other necessities for their next crop.

So - what happened?

Desperate Farmers were obliged to use the pieces of paper issued by their "Government" as Security for yet more Loans from the local "Tow Kae" - invariably at exorbitant interest rates - simply to live day to day and plan for their next crop.

The recent long delayed payments to farmers are in no way a stimulus to the Thai Economy - the effect has already been discounted and offset because the money has basically already been spent.

Patrick

I don't understand your point Patrick. Are you saying the farmers shouldn't be paid? Or that the dysfunctional PTP government should still be in charge and perpetuating the political and economic stagnation, corruption and mismanagement that caused the lack of funds to pay the farmers? Thakisnomics is the root cause of Thailands recent economic woes and its has impacted on all Thai not just the farmers. There has been a real drop in the quality of life for all lower to middle income Thais, as Thaksinomics has redistributed wealth from them to the already rich.

I understand your point about the delay in payment has caused hardship for the farmers and forced them to find alternative funding arrangements, mainly through debt. But any further delays in payment would only exacerbate the situation. Now that they are receiving payment, one would assume that they can pay these high interest debts off and thereby reduce their outlay. The next step would be to set up an easily accessable low interest micro loan system to break the back of these loan sharks.

Edited May 31, 2014 by waza

[rametindallas]

One sector to benefit from the farmers being paid will be the loan sharks finally getting their money and their usurious interest.

[millwall_fan]

At last! The private sector is now finally acknowledging the good that the rice scheme achieved: a major improvement to the economy, particularly of the Isaan. The rice scheme ploughed billions into poor areas of the country, but all TV readers could see were the negative aspects - the corruption - that the BP and Nation chose to focus on for their own political ends.

The BAAC refused to borrow the money to make these payments when the elected government asked them to. Now, suddenly the money has been found.

[fab4]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

[mikemac]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Definition of the term "subsidy" - A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.

Take careful note of the word "given", fabio.

If the service or product, in this case, rice, is handed over and the cash payment is not given then the "subsidy" becomes a blatant rip-off, a scam, a hoax, a theft, call it what you like. Do you understand, or is it just too hard ?

[djjamie]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Definition of the term "subsidy" - A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.

Take careful note of the word "given", fabio.

If the service or product, in this case, rice, is handed over and the cash payment is not given then the "subsidy" becomes a blatant rip-off, a scam, a hoax, a theft, call it what you like. Do you understand, or is it just too hard ?

I bet the NACC understand.

The world bank and IMF even said to the PTP before they dissolved parliament "Do you understand, or is it to hard to understand", but the PTP didn't understand and told the world bank and IMF "there is no agricultural subsidy programme in the world that has made a profit"

If only they listened to the world bank and IMF.

[Eric Loh]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

If to made a point, gecko farming is a grant and not a subsidy.

[billsmart]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Definition of the term "subsidy" - A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.

Take careful note of the word "given", fabio.

If the service or product, in this case, rice, is handed over and the cash payment is not given then the "subsidy" becomes a blatant rip-off, a scam, a hoax, a theft, call it what you like. Do you understand, or is it just too hard ?

Mikemac, You and a lot of others on this forum seem to believe that the former government purposely did not or through mismanagement were unable to pay the promised subsidy. There's no doubt in my mind that the payments would have been given if the former government had stayed in power. The facts are Yingluck's government was under attack before and during this time and she finally dissolved the government under pressure from Suthep and the Yellow Shirts in order to hold new elections. Once she dissolved the government the Election Committee would not let the Caretaker government requisition the funds necessary to pay the subsidy. I'm sure this was done intentionally to apply more pressure on her to step down. And then of course the Yellow Shirts refused to participate in elections and the rest is history. This of course went on and one until the coup. Now the subsidies have been/are being paid by the junta who don't have to get permission to requisition money from anyone.

[waza]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Well Fab4, your hero Thaksin has one and he, his family and his sycophants profited enormously from it............

"Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said a rice-purchase program should be extended for several more years, rebuffing critics who say the policy has increased government debt and encouraged corruption........“If we manipulate the mechanism for two years, three years, then things will be moving naturally,” Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and has lived overseas since fleeing a 2008 jail sentence, said in Singapore today. “The rice price in the world market is increasing.” http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

Edited June 1, 2014 by waza

[waza]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Well Fab4, your hero Thaksin has one and he, his family and his sycophants profited enormously from it............

"Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said a rice-purchase program should be extended for several more years, rebuffing critics who say the policy has increased government debt and encouraged corruption........“If we manipulate the mechanism for two years, three years, then things will be moving naturally,” Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and has lived overseas since fleeing a 2008 jail sentence, said in Singapore today. “The rice price in the world market is increasing.” http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

Unfortunately the farmers were ripped off and the tax payers are left with a mountain of rotting rice and a massive debt.

Edited June 1, 2014 by waza

[meatboy]

our neighbor got his 3days ago and is helping the economy he's been p---ed ever since.

[rubl]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Well, till we finally get that single A4 page with full details I'll continue mentioning 700++ billion.

Note that BAAC paid out 880 billion with possibly up to 130 billion more and unclear how much has been reimbursed by the government from 'rice sales'. Add to that the lack of interest payment and the rapidly diminishing rice mountain I fear the 700++ may well become 800++ billion.

Please also note that the Rice Price Pledging Scheme was not a normal 'agricultural subsidy program'. It was supposed to make a profit! Now cue some 'pro' posters to desperately search the web to find profit making agricultural subsidy programs elsewhere (as if that would have any meaning to the Thai case).

[rubl]

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Definition of the term "subsidy" - A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.

Take careful note of the word "given", fabio.

If the service or product, in this case, rice, is handed over and the cash payment is not given then the "subsidy" becomes a blatant rip-off, a scam, a hoax, a theft, call it what you like. Do you understand, or is it just too hard ?

Mikemac, You and a lot of others on this forum seem to believe that the former government purposely did not or through mismanagement were unable to pay the promised subsidy. There's no doubt in my mind that the payments would have been given if the former government had stayed in power. The facts are Yingluck's government was under attack before and during this time and she finally dissolved the government under pressure from Suthep and the Yellow Shirts in order to hold new elections. Once she dissolved the government the Election Committee would not let the Caretaker government requisition the funds necessary to pay the subsidy. I'm sure this was done intentionally to apply more pressure on her to step down. And then of course the Yellow Shirts refused to participate in elections and the rest is history. This of course went on and one until the coup. Now the subsidies have been/are being paid by the junta who don't have to get permission to requisition money from anyone.

not so smart answer, bill.

The Yingluck government setup the Rice Price Pledging Scheme with a separate 500 billion Baht revolving funds outside the BNationalBusget and parliamentary scrutiny. The Idea was to pay farmers and other expences and return into the funds the revenue from sales of rice. That worked so well that the non-revolving funds had to be expanded till the BAAC had payed out 880 billion and still the Yingluck government wanted to borrow 130 billion more. Note that mid-2013 the Yingluck government said to need 270 billion for the 2013/2014 season and to have the funds. Well since they wanted to borrow 130 billion extra it seems they didn't have the funds and as caretaker government they couldn't accept new financial obligations which a new government would have to honour.

Criminal negligence.

[mikemac]

This is one aspect of the rice scheme that never talk about by the anti government supporters. These are tax revenues that are generated by payment to the farmers like VAT, stamp duties etc. and stated as income. The final total loss is lesser when these incomes are rationalized

Even fabs admitted that the last news mentioned 'only' 500 billion Baht losses.

As opposed to your "everyone knows" figure of 700++Billion baht losses. I still haven't come across an agricultural subsidy programme that has made a profit, or is expected to, anywhere in the world.

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

Cue some "anti" posters scouring the web to find that gecko farming in Ulan Bator is subsidised and makes a profit, just to make a point................................

X Wrong ! As usual.