Asthma

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Hi,

I am the guy from another forum. I like it a lot there, but when it comes to any sort of useful advice, forget about it.

Anyway, I need some help.

I have been diagnosed with adult onset Asthma 2 years ago (in Canada) after what I assume was a bad case of bronchitis. Since then I get wheezing, and chest tightness almost on daily basis. 2 years ago I have been prescribed Symbicort Turbuhaler, 1 puff every 12 hours. I didn't do it much in Canada, but in Thailand my breathing started getting worse and then when to see a doc at Vejthani which he re-confirmed Asthma and suggested I should just continue with these routine puffs.

Now I am NOT against modern medicine, but I just have a lot of issues with this "medication" which is supposedly the best on the market. I get very, very depressed after using it, my hart beats very loudly at night and the worst thing is I get muscle/joint pains (the kinds you get when you have a flu). I could perhaps tolerate every side effect except that I try to run 4km almost every day (I have a high blood pressure) and this "medication" completely disables my whole body.

As a matter of fact I got so pissed off that I started googling all kind of info and bought a bunch of Omega 3, Vitamin D3 and other supplements. I did notice some positive difference, but not good enough. I am doing more research, but meanwhile I noticed when I am outside on a nice sunny day in Thailand (away from pollution, like beach) my symptoms completely disappear. They also seem to disappear after I run and after using sauna. This indicates to me that Asthma could perhaps be controlled without meds. However after a week of 2 when I thought I was doing well the bitch returned with a vengeance. So, I get one puff of Symbicort and I feel fine. I take another puff after 12 hours and same side effects show up.

My questions are:

Has anyone on this forum with a persistent Asthma managed to keep it under control naturally?

Regarding Symbicort, should I try another puffer? I am suspecting it is the "reliever" that is giving me these side effects, so maybe I should just use a steroid inhaler and not a combo junk like this? Any suggestions for OTC meds?

Anyone tried the Buteyko breathing method?There are some guys in Thailand that managed to relieve quite a few people from Asthma.

Anyone tried high doses of vitamin D3?

I have a few more questions later on..... if anyone replies.

Regards

Edited May 30, 2014 by theguyfromanotherforum

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I'm surprised about your situation with Symbicort, my doc at Vibhavadi Hospital, Dr Paneeda, put me on this drug three years ago after I'd had a bad episode with that Adult Onset Asthama, actually spent one night in the hospital getting the oxygen level back up to speed. I use it twice a day, morning and evening. And, no particular side effects that I've noted.

I don't have any idea bought natural remedies but might suggest that you seek another medical opinion.

Mac

[Sheryl]

The side effects you report are from the formoterol, the bronchodilator in Symbicort, and particularly since you report palpitations, you should avoid it. If you have never tried using just a steroid inhaler alone then indeed that would be a logical approach, in fact would normally be tried first be resorting to Symbicort, which is indicated only in patients who do not respond to steroid inhalers alone.

Asthma is a chronic condition so you need to be under regular medical management, try to find a doctor you are happy with and stick with him/her.

As to "natural" treatments - what will definitely help is to identify the allergens that trigger it and avoid them. May be pollution, dust, mold etc etc. For some people this is all that is needed, others either cannot avoid the triggers or can't identify what they are.

It has been hypothesized but not proven that zinc supplements may help, and they have been proven to decrease the severity and frequency of respiratory infections. Redoxan effervescent tablets are a Vit C + zinc mixture, some people find it helpful. No harm in trying.

[Jessi]

I also use Symbicort but no side affects.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Well, this sucks for me, I guess.

On another hand Symbicort is quite expensive, so maybe I will be better off with a cheaper medication.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I get Symbicort 120 dose at a pharmacy in the Rangsit market for baht 1,380. That's pretty good I think for two months, at two doses a day.

Mac

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Yes, that's about 60% less than what I paid in Canada. However, the medication makes me feel worse. I tried again last night and actually started coughing for the first time and also experienced chest tightness. It is very good at making me spit out mucus, I must say. It has some weird effect on me.

[Sheryl]

You are experiencing known side effects - not common, but known and generally an indication not to take the medication.

With any side effect, nto all users experience them, in fact usually most do not, but some do.

As I said before, Symbicort is not indicated unless steroid inhaler alone was not sufficient.

Should not stop it without immediately starting on a steroid inhaler though as it could worsen the asthma. And better to make this switch with medical supervision.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Maybe I don't have asthma. Maybe I have a heart disease.

[Sheryl]

I don't follow you. 2 different doctors in two different countries have diagnosed you with asthma. Why do you think you have heart disease?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I don't know. They diagnosed me by listening through the stethoscope.

I run 4-5km a day at a pretty fast pace without a major difficulty. Maybe not a heart failure.

I guess I am still living under grand illusion that I could manage this without the meds.

It is probably an illusion, but the meds scare me.

Thanks for the replies, btw. I appreciate it.

[sourcherry]

I also use Symbicort but no side affects.

Same here.

[stubuzz]

I was also diagnosed with adult onset asthma. I use Seretide, 600bt 120 doses. i had to change to the lower strength inhaler to avoid the leg cramps and headaches.

[Somnambulist]

I was also diagnosed with adult onset asthma. I use Seretide, 600bt 120 doses. i had to change to the lower strength inhaler to avoid the leg cramps and headaches.

I use Seretide sometimes and although I don't have your side effects I do know that many of these inhalers work by using up the magnesium in your body. Mg is what gives your muscles, including all smooth muscle tissue, the ability to relax. Calcium gives muscles the ability to clench so too much of it and not enough Mg give you leg cramps and make you uptight and nervous. I take a product by Natural Vitality that also contains a bit of calcium. Mg will also guide the calcium to where it is needed in the body and away from where it is not. It's calming, too.

[Somnambulist]

All dairy except raw milk brings on my asthma, as does bread. And rain. I never did Buteyko but I did buy a how to CD once. Buteyko people can reduce inhaler use but don't improve their flow tests, that is, their ability to exhale because their alveoli can't release all the air in their sacs. So how does it work? I have a theory. Buteyko says that overbreathing causes asthma attacks but I believe that is an oversimplification. In my own case, when my breathing is at all constricted and I'm meditating and I try to breathe deeply, (forcing it) my breathing only gets worse. So lately when I meditate (and other times, too, but a meditation session really sets up my day) I stop breathing in at the slightest hint of resistance, even if I'm not sure. So I breathe more shallowly, except that eventually, after five minutes or 20 minutes, I can have an effortless deeper breath now and then. Serrapeptase is another thing you can try. I've been using it for a couple of weeks and I've experienced improvement but it coincides with the breathing change I just explained. Also, a few weeks ago I bought a Timtec hepa air filter/ionizer/UV lamp.

About medication, I had my first (and only) asthma attack that required a trip to the ER a few years ago when I was living in the countryside during rice husking season. The doctor gave me Seretide and told me to use it twice a day and after two years he'd re-evaluate me. Well, serendipitously the day I left the hospital I discovered Buteyko and although I didn't do the exercises I did make a conscious effort not to breathe deeply, which, although I now believe is slightly mistaken as I've explained, I didn't need to use the inhaler he prescribed a single time for the next nine months. So don't blindly follow what a doctor tells you. Listen to your body. Seretide gets me through the night when I need it but I don't like it because it causes fast, shallow breathing which leaves me feeling tired in the morning.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Sheryl, a question for you if I may.

I mentioned I completely changed my diet 2 months ago. Basically I read JD Moyer blog about asthma and went on vitamin supplements.

I am taking Omega 3 and vitamin D3 daily (3mg and 3000IU a day), primrose oil (once a day), Magnesium (once a day) and sometimes Vitamin C.

I also eat fish (salmon) a lot more. It is cheap here, so I will keep eating this stuff.

My symptoms are very minimal now comparing 2 months ago.

I would say my Asthma has improved 80%.

It seems like Aircon triggers it overnight and when I use the stairs (physical effort). Also junk food and carbonated sugary drinks it seems, but I am not sure about all junk food.

I would say that this natural supplement crap actually works.

I went to 2 different doctors since and none can hear anything. No wheezing whatsoever.

But I know it is there.... I can "feel" it.... like I said cold air and physical activity triggers it.

They are going to do some complicated tests at Chula next month. I don't exactly feel like taking steroids and other stuff if I think I can control it.

Should I?

[Sheryl]

Are you currently taking anything? If so need to be cautious about trying to go off it and do so gradually under medical supervision as it can rebound quite severely if steroids are stopped to abruptly.

If on the other hand the relative lack of symptoms you now report are the state of affairs without any medication, then from what you describe daily medication would not seem indicated.

I am a little concerned re your report that it acts up with physical exertion like climbing stairs as that may be something other than asthma.

The a/c bit on the other hand is pretty common with asthmatics. Have you had that a/c unit thoroughly cleaned recently? If not, should.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I am not taking anything at the moment. I was thinking about having a heart issue, but I run 5km a day without (too) much difficulty. It is more of a sudden physical activity that causes some feeling in my chest. Almost like anxiety attack.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited June 17, 2014 by theguyfromanotherforum

[Sheryl]

What are the tests planned at Chula? It is possible that the chest discomfort on exertion and the asthma are 2 different things.

For the asthma, if on no medication you now very rarely have attacks you might be OK with just an inhaler to use when needed rather than any sort of preventive agent- but see what your doctor says. Daily medication is reserved for people whose attacks are frequent.

Do get that a/c unit thoroughly cleaned -- that means not just the filter (which is easy to do yourself) but the coils in the compressor, fan blades etc. Either wear a mask or leave while it is being cleaned, as dust, mold etc may be temporarily rel;eased into the air during that process).

[Dupont Waterbeds]

Ever thought of dust mites residing in your pillow or the mattress could trigger Asthma?

[tifino]

Reading through all the above, one gets massive dejavu of my enduring industrial asthma since 1994.

In it's early stages, I was in Malaysia, where it was caused, the first Drs tried to 'burn it out' with massive Neulin tablet doses - waste of time that was.

Better DRs actually did to find what/how many things became triggers.

Aircons were high on the list, especially the building aircons that use an evaporator tower on the roof - they even went as far as suspecting legionnaires, but it was asthma.

The main culprit was actually within my accomodation. It was Mould, plain old mould - Not just - but I'm talking about mushroom sized mould growin from carpet, and underfloor aircon ducting in the apartment building.

My condition worsened so much, that I sounded like I was blowing bubbles through a straw, into a bottle of softdrink.

This was pin-pointed as asthma by xray, and that the wheezing pattern worsened during each exhale, rather than inhale.

Currently on Salbutemol (Treater), and Seretide Treater/Preventer.

Experience over the years displayed that over-use of simple 'Preventers' actually worsened the symptoms.

Foods, have since also play/played an important role in amplifying my discomfort. The main factor, especially in places like Thailand, Malaysia etc is the freely overusage of MSG - Asthmatics biggest food related enemy. It's bluddy everywhere, and now wifey and I have to read the fineprint on any and every processed food in the foodmart, hoping to avoid if that is at all possible?

Even plain old tomato sauce has it, the degree depending on the Brand...

Tried that Russian breathing method, and whenever I feel an episode coming on, the first thing is to record how hard I had just been breathing in the leadup. Am/was I hyperventilating. Was I just talking too much, too quickly. Have I just been overcome by some batch of cockroach poop in the back of that old microwave I was working on? Oh so many factors and questions build up - all the while I am searching for that Ventilon spray to calm the condition long enough to allow me to get around for the inhaler, and to get the Dr.

But, the Russian method did give me the extra time up the sleeve to get by

where is that spray??...

Asthma never came on during exercise, as all that building up oxygen is being consumed by that very same exercise.

It was usually after the exercise has been finished, during the cool down that one had to be careful to get the breathing rate down as quickly as possible, or I found myself flat out on my face. Pins'n'needles on the lips - the works!!

I've been tol again and again to reduce my coffee.

Lucky I don't (ever) smoke.

It's good practice to get your Dr start you on an asthma control programme.

Mine used to be 6 monthly over the last 10 years. Before that I was going the the Dr for treatment every week.

[rhythmworx]

Maybe you could try Salbutamol (ventolin) and see if that gives you side effects,

That's the 1st thing most doctors in the UK would prescribe.

Maybe try it the natural way and use the salbutamol when really needed.

[tifino]

yep, salbutamol is usually now the first thing the Drs will try on you, whereas 20 years ago, Neulin was the thing to try back then.

Even non-asthmatics benefit from low dosages for better breathing in 'trying' conditions; and I wouldn't be surprised if athletes sneak some of it for the 'edge' on others...

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Tifino.... how are your asthma symptoms now?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tifino]

I keep ahead, by using the Seretide daily, I now get by needing a salbutamol only a puff, sometimes 2, each day.

Up till a couple of years ago, I was needing 5 or 6 daily.

At least my puffing method, the 2 finger thickness distance from lips, has always been done correctly.

Dunno how many people I see use ventolin/asmol etc the wrong way - as if they are spraying mouth freshener

[draftvader]

I have had asthma for 30+ years now. I started with Intal, moved onto Becotide, then Qvar, then something I have forgotten and now Seretide. My asthma has improved in adulthood naturally but keeping fit and eating healthily make a MASSIVE difference. I now take 1 puff of the low dose Seretide once a day (before bed) and I rarely need my Salbutamol (Ventolin). Ventolin is a "reliever" rather than a "preventative". It is best to focus on lifestyle, cleanliness (yes bedtime is a classic time as we lie on a dust covered bed...consider having a bed cover that you put over during the day) and using your preventative where possible. Most minor breathing problems can be overcome with patience. You do, as you live with the condition, learn when your breathing has reached a tipping point and then it is time for the Ventolin.

What is your diet like? How much processed food? Preservatives, colourings, sugars, etc? Where do you live (i.e. pollution, is it pollens or exhausts?)?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I am really pissed off and I just think the doctors are stupid.

I did my tests and it shows airwave obstruction. I did those pre/after med breathing tests and it showed 10% improvement after taking meds (reliever).

Later in the day I saw a doc and after insisting not to take any oral meds, he puts me on Montek 10 (which I think is singular). One pill last night and I wake up bloated. Now I have the same joint pains I experienced with Symbicort and the gift of diarrhea. I have a few questions for experienced people here and our resident medical nurse if she does not mind.

I asked doc just taking the steroid inhaler and he insisted that they don't sell this anymore. I find this hard to believe. True or false?

I actually managed to control my Asthma just by eating healthy and taking vitamin supplements. I sure felt much better than taking this garbage. I apologize for my harsh language, but mood swings are one of many side effects of this pile of crap that I took.

Final question and this is what I need a definite answer to. I noticed that after a while my tolerance for Symbicort improved. Is it possible for your body to get used and not have as many side effects or is it all in my head? I started taking it only once a day before sleep for about one week and it seemed ok that way.

Someone please reply..... this is really ..... annoying me.

[GaryB1263]

I have had asthma my entire life. I use seretide/advair. 250/50. It is 1000 THBT for 60 doses. It is the #1 asthma medication in the world. It treats COPD also. Maybe you can ask your Dr about this medicine?

[h90]

I have had asthma for 30+ years now. I started with Intal, moved onto Becotide, then Qvar, then something I have forgotten and now Seretide. My asthma has improved in adulthood naturally but keeping fit and eating healthily make a MASSIVE difference. I now take 1 puff of the low dose Seretide once a day (before bed) and I rarely need my Salbutamol (Ventolin). Ventolin is a "reliever" rather than a "preventative". It is best to focus on lifestyle, cleanliness (yes bedtime is a classic time as we lie on a dust covered bed...consider having a bed cover that you put over during the day) and using your preventative where possible. Most minor breathing problems can be overcome with patience. You do, as you live with the condition, learn when your breathing has reached a tipping point and then it is time for the Ventolin.

What is your diet like? How much processed food? Preservatives, colourings, sugars, etc? Where do you live (i.e. pollution, is it pollens or exhausts?)?

My mother who was never smoking could breath only freely in closed restaurants with a lot smoker, heavy smoke in the air. She actually don't like restaurants/bars much. Her idea was that she might be allergic against something that isn't in the air there. But we never discovered if it is true or not. But with her it had a strong psychic part. If she was very stressed and nervous it got worse. Now she learned to relax and it almost complete gone. She is also allergic against some things.

For the bed, I think it helps to wash it more often (I do it at 95 degree Celsius), it may help to put the pillow during the day either in the full sun outside or in the deep freeze (killing the mite).

[gomangosteen]

Hi

Interested in people's experiences with asthma when changing countries/climates

I (from NZ) developed asthma last teens - years of inhalers, nebulisers and overnighters in hospital.

Except for the years I spent in my 20s living in Australia - Sydney and perth where asthma became a rare event for me, and just the odd Ventolin 'as required'

I've been a competitive distance swimmer and triathlete at national level, though always had the trusty Ventolin at hand 'in case'. Healthy living, even a dietitian!

On my first holiday to Thailand the asthma more than faded, it practically disappeared. I was running and cycling like I'd always wanted to, restrictions gone. First time ever i felt I could give a genuine 100% with no excuses. And many thoughts of 'if only' when looking at competition results that could have been better

Returned to Thailand for 5+ years and no issues whatsoever, decided that just as I had grown into asthma I had grown out of it.

This year I went back to NZ April-July and it hit me the worst of my life, from the very first day till the last - i went for 6mths work but called it quits at 3. Granted it was winter, and it was quite a shock going from high 20s to low 30s to daily temps of 8-9C and overnight lows of minus 2 (but no, I was not sleeping outside).

Back thru Bangkok and it's gone again. Arrived home 4 weeks ago and not a hint of breathing issues.

Simply put, seems I have a reaction against the climate/cold air. Allergic to NZ! I have to go back briefly early 2015 and am dreading it - can't see any way of avoiding the same problems I've just had; I've felt so much better overall minus the medication - and stress that comes with relying on it.

Can't be alone, surely? Anyone else had similar exp returning to a cooler eg UK climate? And how did you manage it?

thanks