Rising debt likely to keep households in the red

[robblok]

Drove most of my life owned several cars some classic up keep and insurance eats you alive. Now rent car if I need one or use taxi. But since most trips far make it easier to fly., No parking issues tickets gas flats, And I find now I do less one finger salutes too.

It all depends where you live and how often you use the car. Sounds like you have not driven much in Thailand if you talk about parking tickets and high insurance.

[leggo]

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month

Really ?

Think many people think all Thais are poor.. often to feel better about themselves. I know plenty people making 20K plus. Not everyone is poor and the 40k farang pension is not a lot here.

Not a lot?My wife and I live off 40 k a month in a brand new condo.We eat out whenever, we buy clothes, go to Bkk and travel and have a really good standard of living! Depends on what you spend your money on! We don't have a car or scooter, don't drink much or do the nightlife scene!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's not a lot at all everyone knows it and your pretending to be rich and having a high life.

I own a car and 2 bikes not much of the night life and in general I don't drink. I can get by on 40k and quite often do as I save the rest of the money I make. But to think that 40k is a lot is just crazy.

As you said it really depends how you spend your money and what you eat. I like quality fruits and meats. Not Thai style food with a few scraps of meat.

pretending to be rich -are you kidding? wrong assumption on your part! (And my wife works as an English teacher so our income is double that - rich for me is 250,000 pounds a year minimum!) And I too, surprisingly enough, like good quality food although I rarely eat meat. How many poor people go abroad on holiday twice a year and live in air conditioned comfort with internet and flat screen TV? Thai teachers earn 15000 so 40000 would seem pretty good to them and the average salary in Thailand excluding Bkk is probably less than that so I reckon 40k ( although I consider it a smidgeon by European standards) is according to most of my Thai friends a very decent income - of course I don't hang out with the hi-so, not in these parts anyway! Edited June 1, 2014 by leggo

[robblok]

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month

Really ?

Think many people think all Thais are poor.. often to feel better about themselves. I know plenty people making 20K plus. Not everyone is poor and the 40k farang pension is not a lot here.

Not a lot?My wife and I live off 40 k a month in a brand new condo.We eat out whenever, we buy clothes, go to Bkk and travel and have a really good standard of living! Depends on what you spend your money on! We don't have a car or scooter, don't drink much or do the nightlife scene!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's not a lot at all everyone knows it and your pretending to be rich and having a high life.

I own a car and 2 bikes not much of the night life and in general I don't drink. I can get by on 40k and quite often do as I save the rest of the money I make. But to think that 40k is a lot is just crazy.

As you said it really depends how you spend your money and what you eat. I like quality fruits and meats. Not Thai style food with a few scraps of meat.

Who are you to say I am pretending to be rich - wrong assumption on your part! And I too, surprisingly enough, like good quality food although I rarely eat meat. How many poor people go abroad on holiday twice a year and live in air conditioned comfort with internet and flat screen TV? Thai teachers earn 15000 so 40000 would seem pretty good to them and the average salary in Thailand excluding Bkk is probably less than that so I reckon 40k ( although I don't consider a lit by European standards) is according to most of my Thai friends a very decent income - of course I don't hang out with the hi-so, not in these parts anyway!

It says a lot about you to count a flat-screen and internet to be luxuries, same with aircon most Thais run it even the poor family I know runs aircon not 24/7 but they still use it.

But I am not saying that living on 40k is impossible, I do it too. Granted the GF who makes 25k on average pays a lot too.

Anyway no hi so village here but most of the self employed people make 40 k easy. Just imagine 20 ppl making 20 k each (quite normal) they have the same income as you. Its not much its enough, but nothing to write home about.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Anyway no hi so village here but most of the self employed people make 40 k easy. Just imagine 20 ppl making 20 k each (quite normal) they have the same income as you. Its not much its enough, but nothing to write home about.

You live in BK, if you were anywhere else all the self employed you know would be struggling to make 10k.

Your lifestyle is way more expensive than normal people, body-builders eat far more expensive food, probably x3 a normal persons cost.

[robblok]

Anyway no hi so village here but most of the self employed people make 40 k easy. Just imagine 20 ppl making 20 k each (quite normal) they have the same income as you. Its not much its enough, but nothing to write home about.

You live in BK, if you were anywhere else all the self employed you know would be struggling to make 10k.

Your lifestyle is way more expensive than normal people, body-builders eat far more expensive food, probably x3 a normal persons cost.

Quite probably as I eat loads of fruits and vegetables and I don't care that I pay 100 bt for some asparagus and consume them in 1 or 2 days, plus chicken or pork. I also don't go for the cheap fruits just for fruits that I like even if they are expensive. 100bt for a kg of mandarins is normal. (sure you can buy the cheaper lower quality)

But really the people here make quite nice money if they are self employed. Just look at the market stalls and such, they are certainly not poor. Many of the office workers i know make 20k plus. I know a girl that makes 120 k as working for an oil company.

All I am saying the notion that Thais don't make much money and a farang on a pension of 40 K is rich is a bit crazy. I am not saying that they would not like to make that 40k but it certainly is just a bit more as what they make.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

All I am saying the notion that Thais don't make much money and a farang on a pension of 40 K is rich is a bit crazy. I am not saying that they would not like to make that 40k but it certainly is just a bit more as what they make.

And you are wrong, plain and simply wrong.

40k is such an impossibly large income for most Thais, that if you have such an income, I can find 10 young Thai girls that would like to marry you, have children with you, and share your life. Sight unseen. Oh, my 20 year old niece just walked in (the one earning 7k5) and shouted me first.

Edited June 1, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Strangebrew]

Look if you have work sorry to hear that I did the work thing yeah it sucks but I also did the savings thing now all is good not what you would call rich cash wise but what is important is I can live comfotable. Don't need car or motorbike been there done that, fancy house what for to old for kids and I'm not here to impress others. Have nice rental condo in nice area if things change no problem pack up move to new place. Do ok on pension make more than three teachers get here sitting on my arse. Cash in bank and in safe if needed. Carry enough on me to get through the day plus a little extra If I spot someone needing a meal I buy it for them. Haven't had a drink in decades, Pecker still works life is good. I can come and go as I please, Enjoy movies especially when all the kids are in school. Swim daily excerise, walk and jog time to time Tai Chi in the park with the local knuckleheads. Oh by the way great for networking and getting to know the right people. I know a few Farangs know more Thai's, Mind my own business steer clear of large crowds never liked those. Travel at airport easy as pie most of the immigration people seen me enough so get treated fairly well there. Most of my Thai neighbors wai me when we see each other. Try to give monks food in the morning if up early enough . Police that come through my soi never stop me use to seeing me now. Girls at 7-11 giggle everytime I go in Like hotdogs so they always have some ready, with tomatoes chopped and onions and mustard. Couple of the ladies at 7-11 even took me out with to night market. Showed me different things to eat. So all in all life is good my Thai getting better but still needs work.

[robblok]

Look if you have work sorry to hear that I did the work thing yeah it sucks but I also did the savings thing now all is good not what you would call rich cash wise but what is important is I can live comfotable. Don't need car or motorbike been there done that, fancy house what for to old for kids and I'm not here to impress others. Have nice rental condo in nice area if things change no problem pack up move to new place. Do ok on pension make more than three teachers get here sitting on my arse. Cash in bank and in safe if needed. Carry enough on me to get through the day plus a little extra If I spot someone needing a meal I buy it for them. Haven't had a drink in decades, Pecker still works life is good. I can come and go as I please, Enjoy movies especially when all the kids are in school. Swim daily excerise, walk and jog time to time Tai Chi in the park with the local knuckleheads. Oh by the way great for networking and getting to know the right people. I know a few Farangs know more Thai's, Mind my own business steer clear of large crowds never liked those. Travel at airport easy as pie most of the immigration people seen me enough so get treated fairly well there. Most of my Thai neighbors wai me when we see each other. Try to give monks food in the morning if up early enough . Police that come through my soi never stop me use to seeing me now. Girls at 7-11 giggle everytime I go in Like hotdogs so they always have some ready, with tomatoes chopped and onions and mustard. Couple of the ladies at 7-11 even took me out with to night market. Showed me different things to eat. So all in all life is good my Thai getting better but still needs work.

Seems great for you.. as i stated in an other post, I would get bored if I did not work. But then again I love my work if I hated it i would feel the same as you do.

And I am not trying to impress anyone else I would have bought a big house (I have not just simple house). Just don't agree with the statement that all Thais are poor.

Otherwise seems we are similar I dont like large cowds in general either. Anyway you must have misunderstood me.

I said its not as expensive here to drive a car compared to back in the Netherlands.. insurance is lower here. Cars are more expensive but still. But in general I drive one of my bikes as BKK (living a bit outside) has a lot of cars and traffic.

Everyone should live how they please and spend what they can. This was no pissing match else I would have mentioned how much I make instead of what i spend. Still it pales compared to others so why start that.

Maybe I just found a different kind of people.

[kuiburi]

Car prices hardly make sense here (why am I not surprised)?

I bought (ok in TGF's name) a Mazda 4 door Hi-Racer pick up for 750,000 Thb and with the 1st car buyer tax bribe, got 80,000Thb back. Great vehicle for 670,000 Thb, just lacks a heater??? for demisting the windows in winter, but curiously has an electric rear window demister???

Just checked the price of the cheapest new Mazda CX5 diesel. 1,670,000 Thb. I presume most people will buy using finance, so why, why, why would anyone choose to pay almost 1,000,000 Thb more for a car that does less than what a pick up can do??? If money isn't an issue, then ok it's understandable. If it's an image thing, then buy a Mercedes.

I could have bought a 2,000,000 Thb car myself, but as a qualified vehicle technician I chose the best vehicle I could find that suited me at the best price available. Value for money doesn't seem to be a priority for many people here.

That why I still drive my old Mitsubishi L200 . bought it 9 years ago for 160.000 , still can sell it for 120.000 .

Very cheap in maintenance , because it has no bloody electronics like the new cars .

And no worries if it get scratches

[leggo]

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month

Really ?

Think many people think all Thais are poor.. often to feel better about themselves. I know plenty people making 20K plus. Not everyone is poor and the 40k farang pension is not a lot here.

Not a lot?My wife and I live off 40 k a month in a brand new condo.We eat out whenever, we buy clothes, go to Bkk and travel and have a really good standard of living! Depends on what you spend your money on! We don't have a car or scooter, don't drink much or do the nightlife scene!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's not a lot at all everyone knows it and your pretending to be rich and having a high life.

I own a car and 2 bikes not much of the night life and in general I don't drink. I can get by on 40k and quite often do as I save the rest of the money I make. But to think that 40k is a lot is just crazy.

As you said it really depends how you spend your money and what you eat. I like quality fruits and meats. Not Thai style food with a few scraps of meat.

Who are you to say I am pretending to be rich - wrong assumption on your part! And I too, surprisingly enough, like good quality food although I rarely eat meat. How many poor people go abroad on holiday twice a year and live in air conditioned comfort with internet and flat screen TV? Thai teachers earn 15000 so 40000 would seem pretty good to them and the average salary in Thailand excluding Bkk is probably less than that so I reckon 40k ( although I don't consider a lit by European standards) is according to most of my Thai friends a very decent income - of course I don't hang out with the hi-so, not in these parts anyway!

It says a lot about you to count a flat-screen and internet to be luxuries, same with aircon most Thais run it even the poor family I know runs aircon not 24/7 but they still use it.

But I am not saying that living on 40k is impossible, I do it too. Granted the GF who makes 25k on average pays a lot too.

Anyway no hi so village here but most of the self employed people make 40 k easy. Just imagine 20 ppl making 20 k each (quite normal) they have the same income as you. Its not much its enough, but nothing to write home about.

Thing is I've been living in the tropics for over twenty years and flat screens and internet didn't exist then and suddenly woosh I bought my first smart phone this year and when we moved into a condo it was all there - lovely I thought - we'll have some of this - up till now - I've been too busy surfing, swimming , hiking etc and to be frank haven't been too interested in all of these - consuming is not my priority ! You can't judge a book by its cover - in the 60's I rode my Harley from London to Marrakesh and in the 70's became a millionaire and by the 80's had nothing and had to start all over again! Life is a rollercoaster!!!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Emster23]

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month

Really ?

Think many people think all Thais are poor.. often to feel better about themselves. I know plenty people making 20K plus. Not everyone is poor and the 40k farang pension is not a lot here.

Average is a poor measure without knowing distribution. If I make 1,000,000 a month and you make 1,000, you now average 500,500 baht. Feel any richer? Headline was something of a "Duh" moment. Replace "red" with "debt" (which is meaning of "red"): Also, flavor that debt is like flood waters over which people don't have any control.

Rising debt likely to keep households in the debt

[englishoak]

My niece lives near me in MaeJo, her wage is 7k5 for a 48hr 6 day week, overtime pays 20bht/hr and her condo costs 1k2 + utils.

Not sure where all your friends live and work.

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month and spends Bt19,259, or 75.8 per cent, on monthly expenses.

No mention of BKK only in the OP

There is no way its an average Thai person, it might average out with all the bosses and million and billionaires into the mix but no way is the average Thai earning 25k a month nationally, even in BKK I seriously doubt thats the normal average persons wage....

[losworld]

My niece lives near me in MaeJo, her wage is 7k5 for a 48hr 6 day week, overtime pays 20bht/hr and her condo costs 1k2 + utils.

Not sure where all your friends live and work.

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month and spends Bt19,259, or 75.8 per cent, on monthly expenses.

No mention of BKK only in the OP

There is no way its an average Thai person, it might average out with all the bosses and million and billionaires into the mix but no way is the average Thai earning 25k a month nationally, even in BKK I seriously doubt thats the normal average persons wage....

Agreed my understanding that Thai doctors make around 30 or 40k and nurse make 10-15k in Isaan anyway. So even if you double this for Bkok it still does not add up. Like someone said maybe they are adding in the Chinese Thai billionaires that probably control 80 percent of the wealth lol.

[Soutpeel]

My niece lives near me in MaeJo, her wage is 7k5 for a 48hr 6 day week, overtime pays 20bht/hr and her condo costs 1k2 + utils.

Not sure where all your friends live and work.

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month and spends Bt19,259, or 75.8 per cent, on monthly expenses.

No mention of BKK only in the OP

There is no way its an average Thai person, it might average out with all the bosses and million and billionaires into the mix but no way is the average Thai earning 25k a month nationally, even in BKK I seriously doubt thats the normal average persons wage....

Well take it up with the NCB and the research arm of K-bank then they are the ones quoting the numbers

[billd766]

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month

Really ?

Think many people think all Thais are poor.. often to feel better about themselves. I know plenty people making 20K plus. Not everyone is poor and the 40k farang pension is not a lot here.

Quite...its a common myth put forward by some posters on TV that the average Thai earns 7-9000k/m...lives in a THB 3k/m room with no indoor plumbing and eats leaves from the side of the road and they are grateful for their lot..

suppose some farangs in Thailand need to keep telling themselves this so they feel better about themselves so they keep the myth about the superior farang overseeing "their" natives stays alive.

But one supposes this thread will deteriorate as normal when TV posters start listing their money outgoing to prove you can live as native on THB 5k/m.. and live a "good" life and any farang who spends more than 25k/m has to be an alcoholic, sexpat who is is not at one with their Thainess, and spends all their money on bar girls

A bit generalised is your post. I live in rural Thailand and yes 7 to 9,000 baht is quite a normal wage in this area. Some local villagers do live in shacks with minimal plumbing and eat not leaves as such but plants that grow on the roadsides as vegetables and some even go around selling the stuff, As an example of a salary for Thais I can quote 2 Thais personally.

My niece lives and works in BKK. She is 22, has a good job and is the first child in the family to get to unj and she has a degree in business studies. She doesn't smoke and doesn't drink much and her debts are mostly to repay the education loan for going to uni.

Her brother will be 18 next month is so smart he quit school at 16 and was living with his father and grandfather who could not control him. He was sent up country to us and we were supposed to get him back to school. He would leave in the morning and come back later with any excuse he could think of and truly thoughtthat we were dumb enough to believe him. In the end my wife got him a job in the Forestry Department and managed to save it for him when he screwed up. She told him if it happens again he will be kicked out and on his own.

He has reached his career peak as a labourer and is as dumb as a box of rocks. He has no chance of promotion because he didn't finish school. He earns 6,500 baht a month and I take 1,000 baht from him to give to his grandmother to repay her for the motorbike she bought him to go to work. I take 1,500 baht or 50 baht a day for his food, lodging, laundry, share of the electric bills etc leaving him 4,000 baht a month. It costs him about 1,500 baht a month to go to work and his grandmother helps him with that as well. That leaves him 2,500 baht or perhaps 80 baht a day for himself. He smokes, drinks (sometimes my whisky but he has been caught too many times now), steals my gasoline that I buy for grass cutting machines etc (I caught him at that too) and runs a tab at several places and spends more than he earns.

My wife kept his money and doled it out to him for a while, I did the same but now he is on his own and if he screws up that will be his problem and he WILL be kicked out.

[billd766]

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month

Really ?

Think many people think all Thais are poor.. often to feel better about themselves. I know plenty people making 20K plus. Not everyone is poor and the 40k farang pension is not a lot here.

Quite...its a common myth put forward by some posters on TV that the average Thai earns 7-9000k/m...lives in a THB 3k/m room with no indoor plumbing and eats leaves from the side of the road and they are grateful for their lot..

suppose some farangs in Thailand need to keep telling themselves this so they feel better about themselves so they keep the myth about the superior farang overseeing "their" natives stays alive.

But one supposes this thread will deteriorate as normal when TV posters start listing their money outgoing to prove you can live as native on THB 5k/m.. and live a "good" life and any farang who spends more than 25k/m has to be an alcoholic, sexpat who is is not at one with their Thainess, and spends all their money on bar girls

A bit generalised is your post. I live in rural Thailand and yes 7 to 9,000 baht is quite a normal wage in this area. Some local villagers do live in shacks with minimal plumbing and eat not leaves as such but plants that grow on the roadsides as vegetables and some even go around selling the stuff, As an example of a salary for Thais I can quote 2 Thais personally.

My niece lives and works in BKK. She is 22, has a good job and is the first child in the family to get to uni and she has a degree in business studies. She doesn't smoke and doesn't drink much and her debts are mostly to repay the education loan for going to uni.

Her brother will be 18 next month is so smart he quit school at 16 and was living with his father and grandfather who could not control him. He was sent up country to us and we were supposed to get him back to school. He would leave in the morning and come back later with any excuse he could think of and truly thoughtthat we were dumb enough to believe him. In the end my wife got him a job in the Forestry Department and managed to save it for him when he screwed up. She told him if it happens again he will be kicked out and on his own.

He has reached his career peak as a labourer and is as dumb as a box of rocks. He has no chance of promotion because he didn't finish school. He earns 6,500 baht a month and I take 1,000 baht from him to give to his grandmother to repay her for the motorbike she bought him to go to work. I take 1,500 baht or 50 baht a day for his food, lodging, laundry, share of the electric bills etc leaving him 4,000 baht a month. It costs him about 1,500 baht a month to go to work and his grandmother helps him with that as well. That leaves him 2,500 baht or perhaps 80 baht a day for himself. He smokes, drinks (sometimes my whisky but he has been caught too many times now), steals my gasoline that I buy for grass cutting machines etc (I caught him at that too) and runs a tab at several places and spends more than he earns.

My wife kept his money and doled it out to him for a while, I did the same but now he is on his own and if he screws up that will be his problem and he WILL be kicked out.

I on the other hand DO spend considerably more than than 6,500 baht a month my nephew earns but then again I am supporting me, my wife, our 10 year old son, my mother in law and my lazy nephew and more than 25,000 baht a month.

I do take exception to being described as in your words

"But one supposes this thread will deteriorate as normal when TV posters start listing their money outgoing to prove you can live as native on THB 5k/m.. and live a "good" life and any farang who spends more than 25k/m has to be an alcoholic, sexpat who is is not at one with their Thainess, and spends all their money on bar girls "

I am 70, not an alcoholic, don't normally visit bars or bar girls and I am also not a sexpat and I am unsure as to what my Thainess should be. I also don't recognise any of my friends from your description either though I am sure that there are many people like that out there.

[JesseFrank]

My niece lives near me in MaeJo, her wage is 7k5 for a 48hr 6 day week, overtime pays 20bht/hr and her condo costs 1k2 + utils.

Not sure where all your friends live and work.

Studies show that on average, a Thai person earns Bt25,405 a month and spends Bt19,259, or 75.8 per cent, on monthly expenses.

No mention of BKK only in the OP

There is no way its an average Thai person, it might average out with all the bosses and million and billionaires into the mix but no way is the average Thai earning 25k a month nationally, even in BKK I seriously doubt thats the normal average persons wage....

Well take it up with the NCB and the research arm of K-bank then they are the ones quoting the numbers

No need to take it up with anyone, as from below thread started only a few days later it is clear that you live in a different Thailand as anyone else, since they corrected the 25000 Baht to per household instead of per person.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/731598-more-thais-to-default-on-their-loans-due-to-increased-household-debts-nesdb/

Even though each household earns about 25,200 baht on average, their average expenses per month could reach as high as 19,000 baht.

Edited June 15, 2014 by JesseFrank