Australian Citizenship for your baby – how to guide

[David48]

Intro – Recently I got the citizenship for my newborns in Thailand and this is a guide to help others through the process.

I’ll cover the basics of how to get Citizenship by Decent for newborn child, some tips and things that may save you money.

The Citizenship document is vital to have to make it easier to obtain an Australian Passport.

A rough guide for this will be.

• Overview

• Citizenship – who qualifies?

• The two main options to obtain the Citizenship

• Form guide – no, not for the horses!

• Documents required

• Stories I heard and read

• Tips and tricks

But like any good guide, things change over time and your input is invaluable.

So, at anytime you have a comment, recommendation, addition or you reckon I’ve stuffed up, please post.

As Aussies, we don’t stand on ceremony, we just want a practical outcome.

So nothing haughty taughty here … just a no frills guide.

Photo Credit

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[David48]

Overview ...

Recently I applied for and successfully received the Citizenship by Descent for my newborns in Thailand.

I’m an Aussie and my Partner, a Thai National. We are not married.

Not being married is not a real issue for the Embassy.

They seem to be more interested in who are the biological Parents of the applicant.

I applied for one application through the VFS Office in the Trendy building and one directly with the Australian Embassy, just to compare the two services.

The Citizenship document is vital in so much it validates that your child is Australian and can apply for an Australian Passport.

Making the application is easier then say a Tourist Visa application to Australia and it’s my opinion that you really don’t need an Agent to assist with the process.

An Indian chap kindly had a copy of his child's Certificate up on the net. Photo credit.

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[David48]

Citizenship – who qualifies?

Well VFS qualifies it as

A child born overseas can be registered as an Australian Citizen by descent if at least one of the parents was an Australian Citizen at the time of child’s birth.

The Australian Embassy makes a more formal statement

A child born overseas can be registered as an Australian citizen by descent if at least one of the parents was an Australian citizen at the time of the child’s birth.

A parent can apply for registration of Australian citizenship by descent on behalf of the child before the child reaches 16 years of age.

If you child was born through a surrogacy arrangement please refer to the link Children born through a surrogacy arrangement.

Then there is the information supplied on the Citizenship by Descent checklist

Am I eligible to apply for Australian Citizenship by Descent?

You may be eligible to apply to become an Australian citizen by descent if:

You were born outside Australia, and

One of your parents was an Australian citizen at the time of your birth.

If your Australian citizen parent was a citizen by descent then that parent must have spent at least two years in Australia.

If you were born outside Australia or New Guinea before 26 January 1949 you maybe eligible if:

at least one or your parents became an Australian citizen on 26 January 1949, and

that parent was born in Australia or New Guinea, or was naturalised in Australia before your birth.

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[David48]

Now, it’s probably disclaimer time.

David48 is not, never has been and most likely never will be an expert in this field.

Plus, these posts are not the views of Thai Visa, they simply carry my comments.

What this thread is a genuine attempt to smooth the hurdles I had to jump over and a recanting of my experiences.

You most likely just had a newborn, your time is precious like never before, let's make this an easy process for you.

So, with that statement lets get to the next topic … The two main options to obtain the Citizenship

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[David48]

The two main options to obtain the Citizenship

Lodgement:- Options?

Essentially they are the same as when your partner applies for a Tourist Visa etc.

Lodge directly at the Australian Embassy at Bangkok (does Chiang Mai have a Consular office?) or post it in.

Or lodge it with the Embassy’s contracted representative, the VFS service at the Trendy building.

I did both to try and compare experiences, processing times and there is a number of Staff at the Embassy so there was a chance that they would process them separately.

But they didn’t, game over so I can’t rate them separately.

Australian Embassy Bangkok

Lodgement of applications
Applications may be lodged in person at the Visa and Immigration Office between 10:30am and 12:00pm, Monday to Friday, excluding public holidays. Applications can also be sent by mail or courier.

Visa and Immigration Office
Australian Embassy Bangkok
37 South Sathorn Road
Bangkok 10120

The other major alternative is the VFS service.

If you have not used them before, here is their spiel from their website …

VFS (Thailand) Ltd currently has an agreement with the Australian Embassy Bangkok to provide Australian visa application services in Thailand. Applicants can lodge their visa application with VFS in person at the Australian Visa Application Centre in Bangkok or at their nearest any of the sixteen Thai Post courier centres selected by VFS across Thailand.

They are not the Australian Embassy, nor a Branch or Consulate for them, but they are the authorised collection agency for documents. Without any inside information, I would hazard a guess that the role of the VFS is to do the front end paperwork. Basically confirming that the required paperwork is with the application, thus being the portal for the Australian Embassy, their administration are reduced reduced as is the foot traffic through the Embassy.

The service comes at a Fee and at the time of writing that is Bt 600.

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[David48]

Compare the Pair. Lodgement at the Embassy vs. Lodgement at VFS.

Australian Embassy

Lodging at the Embassy is a relatively pain free experience. The few times I’ve been there are very few actually ‘clients’, people like you and me attending.

The staff always cordial, the Thai staff speaking conversational English.

Point to note. Even though the Embassy is open 8.30 till 16.30, the Citizenship Branch, for want of a better term, opens at 10.30.

Posting the application is an also an option.

As for parking …

Parking is not available for visitors in the grounds unless specially authorised. Disabled visitors should telephone to make special access arrangements.

Parking is available in Thai Wah Building, Sathorn Road. Visitors are responsible for their own parking fee.

The BTS is also a viable option.

Alight at BTS Sala Daeng and it’s a relatively pleasant 15 – 20 min walk. Or take a motorcycle for 20 Baht if you are unsure where the Embassy is, then it’s simple to walk or grab a bike back to the BTS.

Here is the Map from BTS to the Australian Embassy …

Credit

BTS Sala Daeng … http://www.bangkokbts.com/images/S2_update.gif

Take either Exit #2 or # 4 It's a really big image so I won't display that, just click the link if needed.

The Motorcycle guys park at the corner of Sliom Rd and Convent Rd.

If you are going to use them, take Exit #4.

Bt 20 to the Embassy.

To the Motorcycle guys, no need to speak Thai. They understand Australian Embassy. Just say ‘Australian Embassy, OK?’

Maybe confirm the Bt fee by showing a Bt 20 note to them … up to you.

The advantage of lodging with the embassy is that you know that they receive the application as intended and that you avoid the VFS Bt 600 service fee.

Cost

How to pay

If a visa application is lodged in person at the Australian Visa Application Centre or Visa and

Immigration office in Australian Embassy Bangkok, application can be paid by cash (in Thai Baht only).

The application lodged by mail can be paid by:

Cashier's cheques:

if purchased in Bangkok or the Nonthaburi, Pathumthani and Samut prakan provinces

Bank draft: for all other provinces in Thailand.

Now, according to the Australian Government website, the current cost for Citizenship by Descent is AUD $120 … but take this as a guide only. Fees do change! And remember, you will be paying in Thai Baht.

So, why not lodge the application at the Embassy? You are saving Bt 600, couple of rounds in that!

Well, if you need something ‘certified’, even though it is to go to the same Embassy … the cost per page (from memory) is about Bt 800 !!! Unbelievable.

At the VFS it’s (usually) free.

Receiving the Certificate.

So, assuming that the document is granted, what are the options for collection/receiving it?

Well, you could collect it from the Embassy itself (they like that idea ... )

You could include a self addressed courier bag (Embassy are OK with that also ... )

… or you could simply have it posted (the Embassy advise against that ... )

For Bt 25 or 30 … we had it posted ...

One thing … I had no idea just how large the Certificate would be, so I included a larger then A4 stamped, self addressed envelope, one with each application. Plus had the registration sticker on it. To the Embassy’s credit, they said that they did have that envelope registered, implying that they attended the Post Office … but I can’t confirm that.

The Certificate is roughly A4 size and more squareish in shape. If you have it posted, an A4 envelope is fine.

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[David48]

Compare the Pair. Lodgement at the Embassy vs. Lodgement at VFS.

VFS

Lodging at the VFS Office is a little different to that of lodging with the Australian Embassy. If you haven’t been to the VFS recently, it has moved.

Not only has it moved, we now share it with the UK Applicants.

The following information relates to the operations at the time of writing and these can change in the future and any updates by members would be appreciated.

These comments will also be candid.

When you exit the lifts onto the 28^th floor where the VFS Office is located it’s like walking into a crowd, not a mosh pit, but a fairly ordered crowd, but it can be disorientating the first time.

The one time I was there directly opposite the lift is the VFS office and the small ‘Reception’ Area was full and a queue snaked down the corridor, a queue I was almost tempted to join … but didn’t.

Further investigation revealed that the ‘Reception’ Desk had two sides to it … a UK side (on the left) and an Aussies side on the right … there was no queue on the Aussies side

So, simply front up there, show your documents, the ‘Reception’ staff will quickly peruse them, give you an appropriate number and then point you in the direction of the security guard and scanner.

Once through that, there is a large vacant area which houses a few photocopy machines and Passport photo booths.

Pass through this and enter the seated waiting area inside.

Once inside, it’s sort of like waiting for a teller in a Bank. You have your number, and you wait for it to be shown on the screen and/or for you to be called by the INCREDIBLY LOUD PA system.

Don’t worry if the numbers appear a little out of sync because there are letter codes and also numbers on your tickets, just be vigilant.

Once called, simply rock to the VFS Staff Officer seated at your numbered booth.

If you thought it was loud in the seating area, just wait till you try and communicate with the staff as their speakers are fixed to the wall directly above the Staff!

I mentioned this and of course, I got the apologetic shoulder shrug of sorry but can not fix.

There are two main advantages of going through the VFS.

One is that, if you need something certified, they will (usually) do it for free.

(Actually, I got quite a few papers certified that didn’t pertain to the application, but I’d be buggered if I was going to pay the Australian Embassy Bt 800 to sign a piece of paper for me).

The staff were quite accommodating to do this.

The second benefit is that you can track the application. When you follow the tracking, it will always say the ‘Visa Application’ when you have lodged a Citizenship by Descent Application … don’t worry.

The down side is that you have to pay for this service and, at the time of writing, that fee was Bt600.

What I didn’t like was how they ‘pushed’ their nominated courier (Bt 300) to me to use as the return.

I declined and showed the stamped, self addressed envelope.

The lady insisted, I declined further and went on to say that while this maybe a policy of VFS it is not that of the Australian Government.

At this stage the Manager was called and gave me the same spiel. I repeated the above … with just a bit more vigour.

The manager relented, instructed me to write on a ‘Post-It’ note that I didn’t want a courier, then produced a stamp which basically said ‘No Courier’.

That was the end of the tension.

Be polite, but firm.

You can pay the fee in Cash at VFS.

As for Parking and Entertainment, here is one option.

There is the Sportsman Bar on the Ground Floor.

Recent news from their website is …

To complement the arrival of the UK Visa Application Centre (VFS Global) to Trendy in Sukhumvit Soi 13, we are now serving breakfast from 9.00am every morning at The Sportsman.

and

Location and Parking

We are about 150 metres into soi 13, past the Breakers and Spankys bars on the right. We are behind the water fountain at the end of the Trendy Building next door to 'Mumbai's Great Punjab' Indian restaurant.

For those driving: the building we are in offers 3 free hours of parking (it is then 30 baht an hour after that).

I’ve never been inside the place, but others have reported an enjoyable atmosphere there and I can see the logic in waiting there rather then with the missus.

If you are not driving then maybe you take the BTS?

The closest station is NANA and use Exit 3. Soi 13 is at the bottom left of the map below.

Credit

Plus a street map

Credit

If you like me, stayed on Soi 11 you can cut through the ground of the Ambassador Hotel. As you approach the Hotel's main entrance, veer right and walk towards the arcade of shops, travel a small distance then take the left alleyway and you exit directly opposit the Tredy Building. But there are 2 entrances to the building and you want the one closer to Sukhumvit Road.

Once inside, the lifts, from memory are split, so make sure you gather round the one going to the top floor, rather then floors 2 -15 (for example).

EDITED to add ... if you want a one off printable map, here is the one from our UK friends ... MAP

Trendy Office Building,
28th Floor,
Sukhumvit Road Soi 13,
Klongtoey Nua, Wattana,
Bangkok, 10110,
Thailand

Also, things change, it's always wise to confirm some info ... VFS Website

If anyone else has info to add on using the VFS Service or anything else, please comment.

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[David48]

Form guide – no, not for the horses!

Essentially there are two basic forms/guides to follow.

The Application Form

The Checklist

Now, these things do change. The links provided take you all over the place trying to hunt down the correct form.

Plus, the Australian Government or the VFS (or a 3^rd party) don’t help by leaving out of date forms on the net.

As of June 2014 the required form is the 118. http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/118.pdf

Check for updates here … Application Forms http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/application-forms/forms_num2.htm

The checklist is found here and updated in May 2014 http://www.thailand.embassy.gov.au/files/bkok/Visa_Citizenship%20By%20Descent_28May.pdf

Maybe you are best served to go to the Australian embassy website on this page and read and take your clues from there … http://www.thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/DIAC_Australia_Citizenship.html

Don’t bother with clicking the ‘Visa Forms tab’ on the VFS site … it’s useless as it takes a generic route and you are none the wiser for having done so.

Confused … … don’t be.

I’ll bring it all together is a summary and will show the simplest way to do it.

For now I just want all the info out there.

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[David48]

Just wanting to hightlight where sometimes the confusion creeps in.

If you click the VFS suggested checklist ... you get the version updated in April 2014, but if you click the Embassy's link, you get the May 2014 update.

Always go with the Embassy links for this.

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[David48]

Documents required

I’ll write only for say a baby/young child as, once they turn 16 there are extra requirements and probably most people reading this it won’t affect.

From the checklist, you need …

All applicants must submit Form 118 Application for Australian Citizenship By Descent.

Please ensure that the application form is completed in English and signed by you, the applicant or responsible parent (if the child in this application is 16 years or under)

Application charge. See: http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/fees_forms_appeals/

(when I applied, early 2014, the cost was Bt 3,750)

Applicant (baby/child)

Certified copy of the official Thai birth certificate issued by the Thai District Office

English translation of the official Thai birth certificate issued by the Thai District Office

One recent passport sized photograph (45mmx35mm), no more than six months old, of

the applicant, this should be of the applicants head and shoulders only against a plain background.

Please ensure the photograph is endorsed by the person making the identity declaration in Part D, Question 21

Australian Citizen Parent

Certified copy of Full Birth Certificate or Citizenship Certificate of the Australian parent Certified copy of your passport, including the bio data page and all movement stamps for 12 months before the birth of the child in this application.

An Additional Identification document containing your current address (Driver’s license recommended)

Other Parent

Certified copy of your passport, including the bio data page and all movement stamps for 12 months before the birth of the child in this application.

EDIT, also check this for updates ... http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/files/pid_docs/descent_checklist/

so … what could go pear shaped with that simple list of documents?

The next post down, I’ll tell you some of the mistakes I made.

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[David48]

I’ll tell you some of the mistakes I made …

My Certified Birth Certificate

Firstly, I simply bought over 1 copy of my Certified Birth Certificate.

Thinking that I simply show the Embassy and because we have TWINS and separate applications that would suffice … NO.

OK, how about I pay the Bt800 fee and you can endorse it … NO

Why NO … you are happy to accept this certified copy as legit, it’s just an internal document to complete the second application!

The answer was NO.

Why not asks my enquiring mind. The reply was that they it would a certified certified copy.

Yes, I understand that … but it’s simply an internal document within the Embassy.

The actual reply from the officer was …

Thank you for your email. Please be advised we require an original certified copy for each application, particularly as they are being lodged at separate times, will be processed by different teams/officers and the Passport office is a different Department. We are also unable to accept a copy of a certified copy as it would no longer then be a certified copy.

I gave up at that stage and had a back-up plan. PM me for those details.

Now, for your guys who simply thought … Aussie Kid, hes/shes mine, I’ll just rock up and show my Aussie Passport … nope … not enough.

For those who didn’t bring their Birth Certificate with them, there maybe an option to have one reproduced and sent to you.

I’ve not done it, but your starting point maybe is here ... http://australia.gov.au/topics/law-and-justice/births-deaths-and-marriages-registries.

Remember that B/B/M are State based so you would be applying into your home state.

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[David48]

I’ll tell you some of the mistakes I made …

Certifying the Child’s Photo

Nothing for us proved more angst, nor time consuming.

Now, I emailed the embassy to clarify a few questions and, in relation to the photo, I got this reply …

2 photos of your child; having the Identity Declaration signed on the back of the photos by appropriate authorities (such as doctors, registered nurses, policemen etc);

So, clearly the embassy asked for 2 photos, not one as in the checklist and suggested “having the Identity Declaration signed on the back of the photos by appropriate authorities (such as doctors, registered nurses, policemen etc”

So, the Hospital was a lot further away then the local Cop Shop … we would just rock up there.

We did … and we were politely told no. We had the kids, their photos, but didn’t bring their Birth Certificates. The Policeman was very nice and a very polite no.

Was our fault also, not to bring their certificates. Maybe the lack of sleep due to caring for the twins blunted my sharp edge.

So, the next day, armed with the Certificates we went to the Police Station, naively assuming that the same officer would be on duty and left the kids at home as we had other things to do. Sadly, the same officer wasn't.

So, from the new Officer, the answer was a polite NO … why should we?

10 mins of polite argy bargy, my girl lost it … tears started flowing. Not saying a word … just quietly crying. Did the trick, one of the older Policemen came forward and did the deed.

At no time did I think there was any money being asked for, no feeling of not wanting to deal with us, just that they felt they couldn’t help us.

So, 4 photos of each endorsed … GREAT

… or so I thought … I didn’t read the fine print on the check list. I simply went with what the embassy email said and the list of ‘Authorised Persons’ on the application form.

MY BAD ...

From the checklist …

One recent passport sized photograph (45mmx35mm), no more than six months old, of

the applicant, this should be of the applicants head and shoulders only against a plain background.

Please ensure the photograph is endorsed by the person making the identity declaration in Part D, Question 21

... so, for those photos to be accepted, we would have had to have gone back to the Police station, seek out the Officer who signed them and get him to then sign the Forms … a bridge to far for us.

We had a check-up with the Hospital in 2 days time.

We simply got the consulting doctor to sign (another 4 photos) and also the Form.

Why ‘4 photos’ and not 2 as the Embassy email asked for or the one asked for by the Application form … because we might need them in the future.

So, the takeout message is, read who can Authorise the photos and take the photos and the forms to them.

If it’s not the Hospital, then chuck in their Birth Certificates also and don’t forget to take the baby/s along for the ride also.

These mistakes were of my making, helped along a little by the Embassy email. The frustration we felt going through the process of the Citizenship Application, I didn't want anyone else to have to deal with ... hence this OP.

There is more on the photos in the next post.

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[woody087]

We just got our local village doctor to endorse my daughters photo..She knows my kids pretty well being the only half oz kids in the village.Seems that was good enough for embassy.As for my birth certificate I got an extra one sent out to me while in oz...so have 1 in Thailand and 1 in Australia.I also got 1 of my daughters citizenship while she was in Australia.So I had 1 done in Thailand and 1 in Australia. Although I thought having it done in Thailand was pretty easy , having it done in Australia was even easier.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[David48]

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More on the Child’s Photo

Not so much a mistake, but a point of frustration.

VFS instructs us for -

Please submit 2 photograph along with your visa application.

The photograph must be:

No more than 6 months old

4.5cm X 3.5cm

Colored, with plain background

Taken looking straight forward and face seen clearly

Australian Embassy through the Form 118 show this

and ask for only 1 photo.

Obviously we went with what the Embassy asked for … but submitted 2 photos of the applicant.

We simply placed the bub on the bed, placed a white nappy behind it … took about 10 snaps before I got one that was acceptable.

Went down to the local friendly photo shop, they put it into the correct format and this was the result.

Sure, you could go to a Passport Specialist Photographer … but there was not one with 20 klms of us. The local friendly photo shop used to do it … but not any more.

So, that photo above, while not ideal was perfectly acceptable to the Embassy

I'll attach these also at the bottom just in case the web based photo storage becomes corrupted.

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[David48]

Stories I heard and read

Let’s start with the positives, I have heard that, if you have everything sweet with the application and you notify the Embassy with a valid reason why you need the Certificate quickly, they will do their best to accommodate you.

One example would be the Certificate to be processed so that a Child’s Passport could be processed as the child’s travel is imminent.

Sadly, my experience was less efficient.

But, there is one story I have to share which I heard while waiting at the Australian Embassy.

The guy and his Partner were trying to have a kid naturally, without success. They went to a Clinic for assisted reproduction (baby making) and used the artificial insemination (AI) method. Tried a few times through the clinic without success.

Being a working bloke, he had to return to Australia but he had some frozen sperm samples at the clinic.

They decided to try IVF instead of AI and miracles of miracles, the egg stuck first time … his partner was pregnant.

In telling the story, his face broke into a proud smile.

Everything went normal with the pregnancy and he returned for the birth … all OK there also.

Then the story becomes a bureaucratic nightmare ...

The Embassy requires to see the travel history for the past 12 months of both partners.

He was in Australia and she in Thailand when the embryo was conceived. The travel records show this, meaning that they were in different countries.

Apparently, he wrote an explanation to the Embassy just to cover this obvious fact.

Nope, not good enough from the Embassy and we sort of agreed that the Embassy is just covering itself incase the claimed father of the child was not the paternal father of the child. Fair enough we both said.

But then his forehead furrowed when he explained the next part of the story.

He asked the Embassy, what proof they required? He suggested to simply phone the Clinic.

Nope, no deal, the Embassy must have it in writing from the Hospital’s Clinic, or a costly DNA test.

His partner phoned the Clinic and the attending nurse said … OK, can do the letter.

Then his Thai partner confirmed back to the Clinic to make sure it was OK to get this letter as the guys didn’t live in Bangkok and the reply was … NO, can not! Need a letter from the Embassy asking for a reply letter from the Hospital’s Clinic.

The poor guy’s furrows deepened.

That’s when I met him … he was in the Embassy awaiting getting that letter. His unique experience intrigued me so I asked for his phone number so I could follow-up with the poor guy, knowing that eventually I’d write this guide.

So, he got the letter and presented at the Hospital’s Clinic only to be told another story. He had to approach the Admin Head at the Hospital to then request the attending doctor who performed the embryo implant to write the letter, which the Hospital would approve and that would then be sent to the Embassy.

Poor guy doesn’t speak Thai. His partner had headed back to the Hotel with their newborn.

The Hospital was a big place and everything in Thai so he stumbled around for a while trying to find the admin head’s office to place the request. Being a week before Songkran the letter won’t be done till a week after Songkran … so another 2 week delay.

After that experience I reckon he was close to losing it.

So frustrated with the Embassy he rang and spoke with an (Aussie) manager there pleading with him to assist. He was dumbfounded that a Thai speaking staff member from the Embassy couldn’t pick up the phone, call the Hospital’s Clinic, ask to confirm the facts as discussed and be satisfied that the baby was indeed his!

He must have been persuasive as the Embassy apparently did concede his request.

I’ll give the guy his due, he rang me back and confirmed that 10 days after he made that phone call his bub’s Citizenship by Descent Certificate was available for collection.

Time from application to issuance … approximately 1 month …

What is the takeout from that story?

Was he too honest to highlight the fact he wasn’t in the Country at the time of conception?

If faced with his scenario, I have to be honest, I don’t know if I would.

One thing for sure, if we have more kids and it needs to be IVF, I’ll either make sure that my our travel dates prove that we were in the same country at the same time or … I’d get a letter there and then from the consulting doctor and a copy of the relevant sheets from the medical file to prove the same.

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[David48]

Stories I heard and read

For a quick turnaround, this thread is a worth a read ... kudos-oz-embassy

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[auserb]

Thanks a Million but, what kind of documents do I need/ before coming to Thailand......Who can sign and authorize two (2) photos of baby?....what forms? actually as I said we are not married but in the babies birth certificate it clearly said that I am father......Do I need to translate that certificate and what else do I need to prepare before I come to Thailand...Thanks for answer in advance....

[woody087]

English translation of your sons birth certificate,your birth certificate and passport,and the citizenship by descent form which you can download of the net.Local doctor who knows your son can sign

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[auserb]

English translation of your sons birth certificate,your birth certificate and passport,and the citizenship by descent form which you can download of the net.Local doctor who knows your son can sign

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks again Woody and the rest of you guys