Old farts get fresh with new music....

[Neeranam]

Thanks for the new stuff, I like some.

One I found by mistake but like is the following, kinda remind me of the Velvet underground with Nico.

[Neeranam]

SOmeone mentioned the pistols - well this is related

Jah Wobble doing mor lam

[Neeranam]

I though most punk was terrible, but the New Wave stuff that came out of it was almost as good as the 60s - if you left the Beatles and Stones out of the equation.

The best time of my life was punk. There were some classics.

How about this?

[wooloomooloo]

Getting back to 'new music' rather than Van Halen, Sex Pistols and Van Morrison and the like.

I quite like this Canadian lady. A talented singer-songwriter, dancer and choreographer. She'll go places.

[Neeranam]

If you liked Dylan, you might like this.

[ATF]

In no particular order.

Van Morrison - Astral Weeks Fantastic at one point I think I had almost every album

Hawkwind - Space Ritual They have their moments but are inconsistent

Talk Talk - Spirit Of Eden Excellent band totally overlooked.

Velvets - first Love about 50% of their material

Link Wray - Live At The Paradiso Haven't heard this album but fantastic guitarist. Love him.

Other worthy contenders would be, MC5 - Kick Out The Jams. One of the craziest bands ever

Ted Hawkins - Watch Your Step Got One Hundred Years From Now. Great musician and songwriter

Cold Chisel - Swingshift You must be Australian

The Church - The Blurred Crusade. Probably the most underrated and overlooked band ever to exist. I've only heard a little of their music but for me they were ok

Tangerine Dream - Electronic Meditation, too be honest I prefer Ashra Temple. Could never get into them but excellent musicians. Suggest you give Nektar a listen if you like TG

As for playing instruments, sorry I aint Frank Zappa, Joe Satriani and Steve Vai, virtuosos of the guitar, but they leave me dead, they aint got soul.

Zappa does a great cover of Whipping Post by the Allman Bros and and Stairway to Heaven (not what you'd expect) check them out. Don't like the other two guys myself either.

Edited June 9, 2014 by ATF

[Squeegee]

@morrobay

"Regarding the first two: Slow Bird and Melodys Echo chamber. Not bad for new stuff Its not a coincidence that they sound good because the first one is Jefferson Airplane equated and

the second one The Mamas & Papas. I did not listen to all the rest, but French Teen Idol brings up the problem I have with alot of the new stuff: Excessive repetition. I made about 5 time samples and it was all the same."

Yeah but you've given the topic a chance and have reacted in a reasonable way, and that's exactly what makes it worth my time posting. So you're not into French Teen Idol for your own reasons, that's great. You made an effort, you have your own on-going taste and an opinion. No music fan can fault you in my book.

Anyway, what I really want to say is I think you're actually spot on in terms of the influences with Slow Bird and Melody's Echo Chamber. Incidentally, in terms of instrumentation, Slow Bird have the same line-up as The Doors: guitar, drums, keyboard, vocals with no bass player, yet just like The Doors, there is no corresponding thinness of sound for that omission. Their whole album is excellent.

@Ulysses G.

"I am impressed by some of the links that the OP provided and I did not expect to be."

The fact you didn't expect it is what makes it all worthwhile. Thanks so much for that!

@sdanielmcev

Totally agree with everything you say and I'll bet if we were in the same neck of the woods we'd have a great time jamming (I'm rhythm guitar).

@WitawatWatawit

"It's extremely presumptious of you sqeegee to suggest that we are claiming that these old classics are keeping us young."

It was said elsewhere and I took that as my starting point as a basis to make the thread. That does not mean I am assuming "all old people are....[x, y, z]." What I'm doing is taking a fictitious guy and speaking to him in order to provide a vehicle for addressing various issues to promote new music.

"I for one have certainly never said so"

And I am not speaking to you for one, or anyone else for one.

"I have always had an enquiring mind, always eager for new experiences."

So, not only did you not bother to check any links, you didn't even bother to properly understand the written content: 'I would imagine older people still develop themselves in very many ways, not just through music, but new music is the subject at hand,' before passing your, hmm, apparent judgement:

"I certainly don't need some tosser to come along [...] some presumptious tosser [...] your excessive writing tends to dull the senses...."

And your writing is lovely too.

"I think you've made the classic mistake of honing in on a certain sector of the elder population and proceeded to tar everyone of us with the same brush."

No, you make the classic mistake of not bothering to listen to what was actually being said, to outright reject all content and then pass judgement based on your assumptions. I apologize if you have taken offense so soon, I just chose to frame the topic in a certain way, that is to rattle the cage of this fictitious character.

"I'll adapt if I want to, and not because you say I should."

All this topic is really saying is: 'Hey, come check out some recent music. I quite like this and you might too'. It has an eye on the fact many folk on ThaiVisa are probably into the classic era of music.

"This yoldie has more new and interesting things to do."

Your input (that's irony) won't be missed if that attitude was all you have to offer. I live in hope that you can see we simply got off on the wrong foot together, as much my fault as yours if not more so, and that you can re-engage with this topic if you decide to do so.

"I've read a large portion of this thread"

Well thanks, I guess, for that.

@ATF

"Squeegee, Thank you for your in depth analysis of my feelings towards this subject. The day the music died for me was when the Sex Pistols released Never Mind the <deleted>. I was happily tripping out to Yes...."

I really appreciate your input ATF. Not just for so allowing me to use your words in my Devil's Advocacy against Some Closed-Minded Old Git Whoever He May Be, but the topical stuff too: I totally understand where you are coming from. I think that alienation from the punk generation happened for a lot of people and the same thing happened again with rap and with sampling. I too was more of a space rocker than a punk and it's only in the past 2 or 3 years that I've finally come to terms with and can enjoy some rap music.

I thank my love of trance for that: once I rediscovered my love for trance back in 2008 I never looked back, and it then opened the door to house (I hadn't known where to start), a bit of dubstep, electro and I was well on the way towards my now loving modern R 'n' B. Perhaps you too can find a way into this kind of thing: for instance, some post-rock (easy for old proggies to get into if they find the right artists) can open the door towards certain punk sensibilities. I'll be coming back to this in a later post.

As to Natalie Merchant, whilst it's not my thing I can appreciate her talent and see the songsmithery (is that a word?) and she can clearly sing. Stick her in a pub with an acoustic guitar player and she'd have no problems impressing most of the punters. There are lot of good artists around, even ones who actually play an instrument and can sing! I feel sorry for old crones who argue otherwise, it's like talking to a corpse.

As to Old Crow Medicine Show, even I'd have a great time if they were playing in my local. Nice tunes as well as musicianship! And always was a sucker for the hammond organ since Bob Dylan.

@yermanee

"And a Pattaya basher to boot."

Yeah after I read your post I think that is a mis-step on my part. I've been using this characterization of some closed-minded old fart but I think using Pattaya as an analogy for an old folks home was unnecessary and is unfair. I can well imagine if you like the place and know it has more to offer than the stereotype and you are frustrated with people contributing to its image by focusing on the obvious stuff then that is a similar situation to what I'm trying to argue against in this topic, an image of modern music all being 'not real music' and other nonsense. I assure you I will not use that analogy in this topic again.

"Turns out that you are nothing more than many members on this board that have a problem with getting old and the elderly."

Here, I'm afraid you are just misunderstanding.

@infinity11

"just thought i'd at least make the thread thai related officially now!"

Yeah I know that tune. I love Thai music (but my taste is mostly for old school luktung and morlam) so nice to be reminded of some of the modern stuff. And those boys can play.... I dunno why reggae isn't even more popular here, it seems to fit the weather and mentality perfectly. Rarely any complaints from the Thais if we put some good reggae tunes on. I think reggae and morlam/luktung have some intrinsic similarities (that are beyond the scope of this thread though).

@bannork

Nice tune and video mate. Thanks for sharing your opinions, which of course I don't entirely agree with! but that's music and that's fine. To me, the guitar ain't everything and I try not to discount things based simply on instrumentation, or whether there are single notes or block chords playing, or whether they are in major or minor keys, or indeed even if the musicianship is of virtuoso quality or not. To each his own, eh.

@rgs2001uk

"Hawkwind - Space Ritual"

I love that album, dearly.

@Neeranam

"SOmeone mentioned the pistols - well this is related

Jah Wobble doing mor lam"

Ah my gosh, OF COURSE that should be featured here. Great post!

"If you liked Dylan, you might like this...."

Finally they get it! Hopefully I can stop ranting and hopefully Old Grandpa Shut Eyes doesn't really exist.

@wooloomooloo

Thanks for introducing me to Kiesza, she could well be right up my street. I love female singers with a pop sensibility that have talent. In that video she's singing and dancing and our cliched ignorant old fart might say people like her are manufactured, so here she is again, singing live and accompanying herself on guitar. The girl can sing, dance and play guitar.

Kiesza - Hideaway live @Ruuddewild.NL

Edited June 9, 2014 by Squeegee

[Neeranam]

Getting back to 'new music' rather than Van Halen, Sex Pistols and Van Morrison and the like.

I quite like this Canadian lady. A talented singer-songwriter, dancer and choreographer. She'll go places.

[Squeegee]

One of my most favourite all female bands....

Warpaint - 'Billie Holiday (Rough Trade Sessions)'

Warpaint - Stars

Warpaint - Shadows

Edited June 10, 2014 by Squeegee

[JSixpack]

if I am to stand up for those of us who haven't lost the ability to truly be 'young at heart', rather than claiming to be so when really it's just a case of having joie de vivre whilst being stuck on endless repeat.

Wrong assumptions therefore wrong conclusions.

Can't think of much more repetitive, brainless, pedestrian, and monotonous than some of the music you recommended. Comes from modern trance/techno/rap/hip hop influence I guess.

just like that previous generation these people are no longer living in the present or defining the future. That, as already mentioned, is what the truly young at heart - (mostly) the young themselves - do.

Not at all; one of your many wrong assumptions. One can still be actively searching out, discovering, exploring, and enjoying variations of older traditions. I'm often finding new artists working in familiar genres who have something to contribute. Moreover, one can find something new in every repeat listening of truly great works, more in proportion to their complexity. It helps to be able to appreciate those works, of course. Knowing the traditions and past greatness well (knowledge not so easy to come by for the younger generation) enables one to discard the merely derivative and mediocre otherwise naively mistaken as fresh, new, and exciting.

So this addresses and refutes your whole position regarding development, disengagement, close-mindedness, living in the past, lack of understanding, and the like. There are of course such old people, but, being so, they aren't gonna be changed by listening to your suggested music.

Most of the old people I know would benefit most from a good exercise program. That and getting laid by a much younger partner. Ah, Pattaya!

"I don't hear anything new in this music,"

This is either because you (nobody in particular, this is not a personal attack) are lazy, or are so old you're actually too tired to expend enough energy to take an interest in something; or a refusal to listen to or accept the truth (shame); but it could just be you're unable to recognize it.

No. See above.

Having said that, I was being polite to that previous poster, because in my OP I actually planted a little time bomb for such a moment as this, if necessary: Joanna Newsom.

Pleasant harp playing, but who really wants to listen to that voice? Ticking time bomb indeed. Gimme Melanie for that. Much stronger melodies, less meandering too.

[JSixpack]

Their mind has gone to seed: they know what they know (which is everything already) and they are now - sadly often unbeknownst to themselves - simply waiting to die. They are the walking dead.

No, but it's nice to feel so superior, eh.

Since a teenager, I've always loved stickin' it to the old farts, too. I do so often here on the forum.

The industry and its availability has changed. Everyone on the street is no longer talking about a handful of pop stars, they have a multitude of artists to choose from now, they approach their pop stars differently and they have a multitude of other interests these days too, all of which have no relevance on how "great" a modern artist is compared to when pop music was a big deal.

That's no change from the 60s. Unlike yourself, I was there, so I know quite well.

The postrock I linked to or mentioned might not come across as highly original, but it is pretty much your 1970s prog rock - supposedly dead - evolving and becoming relevant again

Relevant perhaps, but severely degraded.

The structure of composition is also fuzzy there are no refrains, verses or monotony. The theme may be developed during all composition, reaching the culmination at the end, or reaching it several times or it maybe started from the most bright moment, and then tailed.

--http://www.postrockxchange.com/what-is-post-rock/

No. Terminally generic, synthetic and monotonous; therein lies the problem. Now, if it were describing great jazz, that description will fit nicely. The infinity of jazz and jazz fusion is always there to explore, thank god.

Edited June 10, 2014 by JSixpack

[transam]

OP, not wanting to be argumentative but how old are you.......?...........

Secondly, music is timeless, one likes something or they don't. Has nothing to do with age.

Young and old go to see The Stones, The Who, and many more, including classical music. We all hear modern stuff most days, it clicks or it does not. Really is up to an individuals WOW thing............

[WitawatWatawit]

I don't jump just because you say "jump". You may claim you have used a hypothetical situation, but you've peppered it with your own ignorant prejudices and boring opinions. That's very poor taste. So, as an exercise in trying to create a stimulating debate, you have killed your own topic. Fail. Next time rethink your approach. My last word.

[Rooo]

Moved to pub.

[PJcm]

My father gave me this advise so I thought I would pass it on, "Never get old my son, never get old"

[JSixpack]

One of my most favourite all female bands....

Warpaint - 'Billie Holiday (Rough Trade Sessions)'

What a monotonous, languid, comatose practice for the local high school talent show. Talk about stuck on "endless repeat." No musicianship; harmony, what harmony? First stanza, holdover from the spelling bee competition. Second, inarticulate & irrelevant; and the rest just a passionless ripoff of Mary Wells' great hit "My Guy!" OMG. Talk about "looking backwards and only re-treading the familiar."

Now this would be sure to put any old fart to sleep in short order. It would confirm the suspicion that, far from evolutionary, pop music has devolved to mush, rather as has country music in a different way. Was reading something about this the other day. This: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/15/is-country-music-dead/?intcmp=features

Z-z-z-z-z-z-z . . . .

Where was I? Ah. Well, how fallen from the first of the all-female rock bands.

Return from the zombies! Check Alice de Buhr's drum work. Top that, ladies! No bra, too--that was liberation. Warpaint? Positively Victorian by comparison. Back to the future? Good rebellious social meaning in there, too.

Skipping over The Runaways, more than a decade later the all-girl The Bangles could still rock out:

Impressive musicianship (not Roy Buchanan, but in context) (Michael Steele--one of the great under-appreciated bass players, once briefly w/ The Runaways) and really exceptional harmonies.

Both Fanny and The Bangles did some great cover tunes, but at least they were honest about them.

And they lead to--what, Warpaint? An evolution? So rather than listening to the greatness of Mary Wells herself, an old timer has got to bore himself listening to that soporific, sophomoric, unattributed cover of "My Guy" to be "truly be young at heart?"

That ain't happenin'. It just goes to sum up the whole delusion of the OP pretty well.

Come up w/ new all-girl group w/ the talent, creativity, and compelling tunes of the above and I'm all ears. Now, I could make the same sort of comparison to the other work you've cited as "evolutionary" and inspiring "joie de vivre." If YOU like it, great. But let's not try to embroider it with a bunch of verbiage into more than it really is.

Edited June 11, 2014 by JSixpack

[Squeegee]

@transam

"OP, not wanting to be argumentative but how old are you.......?..........."

It's in the original post, sir. Presumably then, you didn't read it before replying? As well as saying I am 47, I also said that I grew up listening to The Beatles and Pink Floyd. A little more background: Syd Barrett is my musical hero, as it were, though my favourite period of the Floyd was between '69-'72. I also devoured Gabriel-era Genesis and other prog, such as Caravan and other bands from the Canterbury scene, including Daevid Allen and Gong (though I was never massively into Soft Machine despite being able to appreciate what they brought to the English contribution to 60s psychedelia).

I was born in '68, year of revolution, and I eventually went to Essex University, famously where some of that spirit went down though, sadly, by time I went back into education in the 90s students then were in reaction to such things and political apathy was fashionable, thus the Conservatives (Tories) in the Student Union at that time at Essex Uni marketed themselves with a picture of James Dean with the slogan 'Be a true rebel, vote Conservative.'

In my music and video collection I have a lot of rare or interesting stuff, from what later became extant like the footage of Ken Kasey and The Pranksters' journey on the bus 'Further', and classic footage of the UFO club to performances of Dark Side Of The Moon nearly a year before it was finished and released, when it was first titled 'Eclipse - A Piece For Assorted Lunatics.'

I've explored obscure late '60s bands such as Egg, had periods obsessed by Melanie Safka (someone mentioned her in this thread but I said nothing), through the folk-rock of Magna Carta to the metal of Black Sabbath.

I began with my dad's collection of Elvis, Gene Pitney and Neil Diamond then buried myself into the record collections of my older step brothers and sisters, everything from David Bowie to Grace Jones, from Mike Oldfield to Earth, Wind & Fire.

Thanks to these music collections I was somewhat ahead of my peers, being born in '68, who were mostly just listening to punk, new wave and two tone - all of which I also explored, though the '60s and '70s were easily my biggest influences.

By the '80s, even though - as an open-minded music fan - I could appreciate the pop sensibility of Frankie Goes To Hollywood, I was still exploring the '60s because there'd been so much good stuff going on then. But similar to this topic and me saying one should not discount modern music, I can easily say the same about the much maligned 1980s, Tom Waits being the perfect example of a great artist doing quality and interesting things during that time.

It got to the point where once, when I was asked by my former girlfriend what I wanted for my birthday and I said "Oh, I dunno, just buy me a Beatles CD or something" and she retorted: "There's NO WAY you're getting a Beatles CD, you've had quite enough Beatles influence, thank you very much...." LOL

I'm a musician (writer) so she understood that artists need to keep exploring new things. She eventually got me 'Surfing On Sine Waves' by Polygon Window, a.k.a. Aphex Twin. Muaah! Wonderful choice!

Transam, '60s and '70s music has been with me a long time now, I just have a childlike fascination with everything new, and as such I am like a kid in a sweet shop when it comes to modern music. Some of the things I see people saying here really sadden me for their sake.

"Secondly, music is timeless, one likes something or they don't. Has nothing to do with age.

Young and old go to see The Stones, The Who, and many more, including classical music. We all hear modern stuff most days, it clicks or it does not. Really is up to an individuals WOW thing............"

Nobody can (or should) disagree with any of that, mate.

@WitawatWatawit

"I don't jump just because you say "jump". You may claim you have used a hypothetical situation, but you've peppered it with your own ignorant prejudices and boring opinions. That's very poor taste. So, as an exercise in trying to create a stimulating debate, you have killed your own topic. Fail. Next time rethink your approach. My last word."

Well finally you've managed to make a reasonable point, that I've not done the topic justice by taking the approach I did: to personify some old git yadda yadda. Still, I can equally throw your words back at you to rethink your own aggressive, obnoxious, personalized approach. So, turns out you're no better than me eh?

But wait, I didn't make a personal attack on anyone did I? Oh, but did I in fact attack a load of people? Only those like you who chose to take offense by assuming and not reading, as we've seen time and again thus far in the thread.

I hope we can turn this around somehow and stop bickering. I sure would appreciate your input on topic, what you think about some of the posted music or your thoughts on how you see modern music or why you choose to take whatever stance to it. It doesn't mean you have to like anything, just engage, and I promise I'll tone down the fake ageist stuff if you do.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Squeegee

[Squeegee]

@JSixpack

I'll bet you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree because I feel there's so much wrong in what you've posted so far. Hopefully we can somehow meet in the middle and find ourselves in a much better position than when we started. I truly have no idea which way this is going to go: I feel you are capable of open-mindedness judging by much that you say, but I am seeing a lot of closed-mindedness in there too.

In response to "the first of the all-female rock bands" as you put it, namely: Fanny, it's not my thing; neither is that Bangles video you posted. That's just me saying that they don't appeal to my taste and the reason is because to my mind it's rather simple, conservative traditional rock music which I don't find all that interesting.

Understand though, I'm not putting it down, I'm just describing my reasons for not being excited by it. I could never put down music like in that Fanny performance that is played with passion and with such great musicianship (and singing). Perhaps if I was back in '71 such trad-rock would seem more interesting.

My reaction to The Bangles' video is a bit different: again, I find it uninteresting but nice to see they can actually play and rock out, though personally - from an artistic point of view - I just think The Bangles were far more interesting when they were doing their classic pop-rock tunes which they were so good at.

Thus yours and my tastes dictate our differing reactions to all these bands. Thing is though, I personally think no matter what one's own taste one should be able to recognize something of worth even if it isn't something we would listen to ourself.

Maybe it's just your way with words; and maybe you were just doing what I did: described your reasons why Warpaint weren't to your taste, but it certainly came across to me like you were putting them down and that's a shame for you, not them.

You describe them as "monotonous, languid, comatose" so perhaps that's just you saying your taste is more for 'no nonsense, hair-to-the-floor stomping rock' and that's fair enough. We all have different tastes and that's what makes life more interesting. However, I don't see any particular originality in what either of those two bands, Fanny and The Bangles, were doing in the examples you posted, whereas that which you described so harshly I would say is a mood that has not been done before by a girl band.

"Talk about stuck on "endless repeat." No musicianship; harmony, what harmony? First stanza, holdover from the spelling bee competition. Second, inarticulate & irrelevant; and the rest just a passionless ripoff of Mary Wells' great hit "My Guy!" OMG. Talk about "looking backwards and only re-treading the familiar."

Sorry, you probably think you sound good by talking like this, but it leaves me with little confidence in your ability to evaluate the art. It seems to me that you are just on a roll to put down the artwork without much thought for what you've actually said. It's throw-away, cheap shots that don't necessarily hit the mark, and it shows little respect for artists.

The nonsense about spelling bee competition is the girls showing respect for another artist from a previous generation. In this sense those girls are far more worthy of respect themselves (from me, at least) than your peevish, flippant attitude, loaded as it is with a clear bias to put down one generation for the sake of another.

Finally, your overt denial of the clear melody on display, harmony and all, goes to show you denying reality. Fact is, that particular song is a nice tip of the hat to a great artist, it's a nice tune and nicely done. You don't like it? Fine! But don't embarrass yourself by denying there is melody and harmony there.

To add insult to injury to yourself, you ended that with "Talk about "looking backwards and only re-treading the familiar," as if you were proving some kind of point when for the third time in this thread I will say Geoffrey Chaucer, and show how you not only missed one of the points of this thread, but also don't seem to be aware of the single most common factor in art through history, which for your benefit I shall repeat: that of artistic repetition and looking to the past in order to move forwards. Your thinking you were being clever by using my own words in such a way was a misfire, since I was talking about people who are looking only at the past.

Forgive me, I realize I framed this topic in a controversial way, so it probably should be expected that responses are going to come that seem defensive or aggressive either towards myself or the music being presented. Even so, just listen to yourself and how you are talking: if those girls were your daughters would you have said the same things, or are you just blasting away out of a perceived attack by me?

"Now this would be sure to put any old fart to sleep in short order. It would confirm the suspicion that, far from evolutionary, pop music has devolved to mush..."

I am so sorry to have to say this, but this statement just shows a lack of knowledge as to what's going on in modern pop music, or a lack judgement. Perhaps you were just on a bit too much of a roll and it slipped out, or would you really make such a gross generalization?

"...rather as has country music in a different way. Was reading something about this the other day. This: http://www.foxnews.c...intcmp=features"

Actually, Collin Raye in the piece you linked is not quite saying "something about this" at all. Where you have been criticizing the artists themselves, he actually said:

"Finally, I’m not pointing a finger at the artists and especially not the songwriters. They’re simply doing what they have to do to make a living.

It’s the major label execs, the movers and shakers, the folks who control what is shoved down radio’s throat, that I am calling out."

Remember, you said there was "no musicianship" which clearly there was or there would have been no sound: it certainly wasn't coming from a computer program. Perhaps what you were trying to say was that the musicianship was of low quality, but then I would say you show yourself to lack insight.

Do not claim you were saying anything the same as Collin Raye. He was criticizing the industry: "the major label execs, the movers and shakers, the folks who control what is shoved down radio’s throat," whereas you were directly attacking the musical artists for being "inarticulate & irrelevant" and "passionless."

You don't sound like an old fart, you sound like a bitter, negative old fart who is totally ignorant of current music ("devolved to mush") and is capable of denying what's in front of him ("musicianship; harmony") just so he can carp at a perceived bogyman (this thread and how it was presented).

The smiley you did here:

"No musicianship; harmony, what harmony? "

...tends to belie the fact that really you were not engaging with the content of the topic at all, which is essentially just saying 'Hey, don't just be nostalgic, check some recent stuff too'. Instead, your coming in here blasting me, the artists or anything that gets in your way like a bull in a china shop has caused you all kinds of misfires.

When I posted those videos of Warpaint all I said was "Here is one of my favourite all female bands," there were no claims made about it, so wherein is "the whole delusion of the OP?"

Thus far you have shown no capability whatsoever of being "all ears."

Now, at the end, you finally seem to make a point: "If YOU like it, great. But let's not try to embroider it with a bunch of verbiage into more than it really is."

I like that, it means I have to make myself clear, for sure: claims I have made have merely been that - for instance - post-rock is an evolution of prog. I think that's fair enough. I've also claimed Joanna Newsom is a high quality songwriter and a virtuoso musician; plus I've claimed that nostalgia ULTRA by Frank Ocean is a modern classic album and he is pushing R 'n' B into the future. Most of the rest of the stuff I've posted is just me saying 'here is something I like, maybe you will like it too.'

However, I've also promised to post something of interest related to the punk vs prog debate (that I hope shows both side can come together on) and also an example of modern politicized music. To be honest, my posting of music is falling behind my posting of replies to responses!

Anyway, JSixpack, thanks for your input so far. I enjoyed your posting of Fanny, I'd not seen them before. Just goes to show how much is out there from any era. I expect you might want to come back on what I've written, but most of all I'd love to see if you have any post-2000 music to post yourself. Know that all the cage-rattling at the start of this topic was not a personal attack on you, it was just meant as a way of getting the ball rolling and I realize it's biting me in the backside now, for my sins.

JSixpack, are you really closed-minded to modern music?

Edited June 11, 2014 by Squeegee

[Squeegee]

"iLiKETRAiNS are a band as obsessed with history as they are with the dramatic music they create to tell it. Hailing from Leeds, they offer something completely unique to its vibrant music scene, described by The Guardian as "grand and slightly unapproachable civic music, less to be listened to and more to be visited like a museum or war memorial, and all the more interesting because of it." The Times referred to them as the leaders of "library rock"' in their piece on the band describing their passion for history and the somewhat gloomy demise of the industrial era, and NME descried them 'brilliant, unique, wry... at odds with pop's present trends

[...]

brimming with exceptional characters and historical events. The songs covered Captain Scott, Hjalmar Johansson, a rejected candidate for the Norwegian Antarctic team; Bobby Fischer, the troubled chess Grandmaster and a reprise to Bobby's political status; Dr. Beeching, who closed the National railways and other tales of damned or murderous events."

http://www.thisgreenandpleasantland.com/biography.php

The process of our age
Progress, stagnation and decay
And we breath deep

And we realise that hope is not enough
Our game is up

iLiKETRAiNS // Hope Is Not Enough

A rather British music video....

iLiKETRAiNS - Sirens

Playing live (and singing about some dead historical figure who will be forgotten by Liverpool LOL)

William's Last Breath by iLiKETRAiNS

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDlwGJ0NQk

Edited June 12, 2014 by Squeegee

[Squeegee]

OK I made some promises and I will attempt to follow up.

If you were turned off by the punk movement perhaps here you might find a way back in; if you despised the prog rockers maybe this can restore some faith in those who learned to play more than 3 chords.

This post is also to show how modern music never let go of politics.

There are 2 links to music in this post: the first a single 23 minute long piece originally released in the year 2000; and the second is an album released this year 2014 and both are related.

Let's go!

Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Sleep

"It was Coney Island, they called Coney Island the playground of the world.

There was no place like it, in the whole world,
like Coney Island when I was a youngster.

No place in the world like it, and it was so fabulous.
Now it's shrunk down to almost nothing...you see.

And, uh, I still remember in my mind how things used to be, and...uh, you know, I feel very bad.

But people from all over the world came here...
from all over the world...it was the playground they called it the playground of the world...over here.

Anyways, you see, I...uh...you know...
I even got, when I was very small, I even got lost at Coney Island, but they found me...on the...on the beach.

And we used to sleep on the beach here, sleep overnight..they don't do that anymore.
Things changed...you see.

They don't sleep anymore on the beach."

Don't worry, I will get away from post-rock eventually but it needs to be done justice because it's been so important for the past decade. A lot of metal subgenres (hardcore, doom, screamo, et al.) have veered into the post-rock genre, and yet there's also ambient, prog, folk, indie, pop, dream-pop, shoegaze... the list goes on that converges here and it will cross the divide of punk rock and prog rock as well.

We start with Godspeed You! Black Emperor's Sleep from their Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven album because we need something by this now legendary band to contextualize what follows. This band have been highly influential in recent years, though they couldn't care less I'm sure.

"Although various members of the band are often pinned down as anarchists, for a rather long time no one in the band explicitly subscribed to this label;^[12] however, as of 2014, Menuck was calling himself an anarchist.^[13] In any case, there is a strong political component to the band's music.^[14] For example, the liner notes to Yanqui U.X.O. describe the song "09-15-00" as "Ariel Sharon surrounded by 1,000 Israeli soldiers marching on al-Haram Ash-Sharif & provoking another Intifada," and the back cover of that album depicts the relationships of several major record labels to the military-industrial complex. Several of their songs also incorporate voice samples which express political sentiments, most notably "The Dead Flag Blues" (on F♯A♯∞) and "BBF3" (on Slow Riot for New Zerø Kanada).

[...]

The group was once misconstrued as being a band of terrorists.^[15][16] After stopping at a local gas station for fuel in the town of Ardmore, Oklahoma, during their 2003 tour of the United States, the station attendant working that day believed the group of Canadians to be terrorists. She quickly passed a note to another customer also getting fuel to call the police. When the local police appeared, the group was held until they could be questioned by the FBI. Although the police were suspicious of the band's anti-government documents and some photos they had (such as those of oil rigs), they found no incriminating evidence. After background checks were run, the ensemble was released from custody and continued on their way to their next show in Columbia, MO. Efrim Menuck later spoke to the crowd about what happened to them during their appearance in Missouri and speculated that their origin was a motive for being released quickly ("It's a good thing we're nice white kids from Canada"), hinting at racism in the police force.^[17] The incident was mentioned in Michael Moore's book Dude, Where's My Country?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godspeed_You!_Black_Emperor

Anyway, enough of that!

One of the things about the band is they often go under variations of their band name and even go out under different band names all depending on the line-up at any one time. This year, 2014, some of them have just released an album under another name. They've already released as this alternative act a number of times and if you're interested you'll find their albums show real development. No repetition, always moving forwards.

What follows is an absolutely fascinating album. There's a comment under the YouTube video that does it far better justice than I could, so I'll quote that directly after the video link....

Thee Silver Mt. Zion Memorial Orchestra - &lt;deleted&gt; Off Get Free We Pour Light On Everything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ht_q6ube0

deathtokoalas:

"the responses here are interesting. especially the "this isn't post-rock" responses. the mt zions have been trying very hard for many years to distance themselves from post-rock...

...and i don't blame them. post-rock, nowadays, is probably the most boring, formulaic genre out there. these people always wanted to stir shit up, not create a market for the most dour, yawny shit ever. it's nice to hear that they're still mutating and evolving, unlike most of their peers from the 90s.

what i'll say to people that react badly on first listen is that you need to listen to it a few times before it clicks, and also that the sound quality on this youtube video is noticeably poor. if you're not the type of person that likes to get into a record and peel back dozens of layers then it's probably not for you. don't fret, though, as there's a lot of predictable post-rock out there for you to go for.

personally? i've noticed that the mt zions go back and forth pretty regularly between brilliant and mediocre, going all the way back to the first disc. 13 blues was brilliant, kollaps was mediocre. so, this ought to be brilliant. but is it? i'm thinking it might be, it sort of seems like it, but i'm not entirely sure yet..."

[Squeegee]

Some jazz....

Fire! Orchestra - Exit! Part One

Although on this one they sound like a pre- Dark Side Floyd having a stage jam....

Fire! Orchestra - Enter! Part One

[JSixpack]

In response to "the first of the all-female rock bands" as you put it, namely: Fanny, it's not my thing; neither is that Bangles video you posted. That's just me saying that they don't appeal to my taste and the reason is because to my mind it's rather simple, conservative traditional rock music

Yep, it's only rock 'n' roll and hardly the best of the genre. Still, in the context of all-girl bands that you brought up, it's incomparably more complex and less conservative than your touted high school talent contestants. I chose those particular vids to illustrate those points so specifically that anybody can see them.

It's of course derivative but, you see, not to the absurd extent of ripping off the very lyrics of a famous hit by a much greater artist--while, at the same time, also attempting to hitch a little ride on Billie Holiday's fame. Now the latter is SO insulting by these automatons to a great original master of improvisation.

which I don't find all that interesting.

Which is your problem and nobody cares about that. The issue is the silliness and arrogance of attempting to elevate what you personally find interesting into so much more than it is.

Perhaps if I was back in '71 such trad-rock would seem more interesting.

And so you'd need to live in the 1700s to find Beethoven more interesting or the 1920s for Bartok etc. etc. Merely the ol' temporal fallacy, not an argument that supports your contention in the OP.

<repetition snipped>

"Now this would be sure to put any old fart to sleep in short order. It would confirm the suspicion that, far from evolutionary, pop music has devolved to mush..."

I am so sorry to have to say this, but this statement just shows a lack of knowledge as to what's going on in modern pop music, or a lack judgement.

Nope, merely shows an awareness of the reality, rather than an egocentric denial, about what will definitely put an old fart to sleep--childlike, languid, soporific monotony. Just a fact, pal.

Edited June 12, 2014 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

"...rather as has country music in a different way. Was reading something about this the other day. This: http://www.foxnews.c...intcmp=features"

Actually, Collin Raye in the piece you linked is not quite saying "something about this" at all. Where you have been criticizing the artists themselves, . . . whereas you were directly attacking the musical artists for being "inarticulate & irrelevant" and "passionless."

Exactly why I said "rather" and "different way." And no, I'm not criticizing the artists themselves. I don't care what side of the bed they get up on. Clearly I referred to the content of the lyrics of Warpaint's song as well as their delivery (part of the art) of them. If they have any real talent, it's not on display.

As for Colin Ray, he's admitting the mediocrity (at least!) and then goes on to focus on the causes of that mediocrity--in the particular genre of country music.

Willfully misunderstanding my point won't help yours, sorry.

Most of the rest of the stuff I've posted is just me saying 'here is something I like, maybe you will like it too.'

Mostly that, actually, loving and finding excuses to tout your own "taste" in music, but do read the excuse in the OP, the putative rejuvenation powers of recent boring, synthetic, generic, trance/techno/rap/hip hop-influenced schlock for people you claim need rejuvenation. And I pointed out that subjecting old farts to such isn't necessary for the purpose, in fact, as shown by one of your examples, would merely put them to sleep or have them reaching for their headache medication.

I'd love to see if you have any post-2000 music to post yourself.

None of that mindless trance/techno/rap/hip hop-influenced stuff that you like, no. Nor would I offer implicit agreement that good music must be composed or performed after 2000--though there certainly has been some I like and listen to. Been some great reworkings of older stuff, too. Not Mary Wells' "My Guy," though, AFAIK.

Edited June 12, 2014 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

I though most punk was terrible, but the New Wave stuff that came out of it was almost as good as the 60s - if you left the Beatles and Stones out of the equation.

The best time of my life was punk. There were some classics.

How about this?

You can't possibly compare these pussies w/ The Ramones!

[ATF]

I think we should start from the beginning. Rock music was invented by Robert Johnson and can be heard on his two albums King of the Delta Blues. What RJ did whether knowingly or unknowingly changed a blues construction into the foundation of rock.

A blues arrangement consists of two repeating lines followed by a single individual line. To quote RJ's Crossroads Blues:

I went down to the crossroads and fell down on my knees

I went down to the crossroads and fell down on my knees

Asked the Lord above for mercy if you please

Now with another of his recordings Stop Breaking Down Blues he changed that:

Everytime I'm walkin', down the streets, some pretty mama start breakin' down with me
Stop breakin' down, yes stop breakin' down
The stuff I got'll bust your brains out, baby, hoo hoo, it'll make you lose your mind.

The "stuff" he was talking about was his penis. He was murdered by one of his girlfriends at the age of 27 in 1937. His music has been covered by the Stones, Zeppelin, Cream, Clapton etc.

So the BOF's music is actually older than Jazz and no one gets called a BOF for listening to Jazz or Classical.

I blame modern music or lack of good modern music on cocaine, poor education and short attention spans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryh8-AHAO9k

The Stones have played just about every genre of music. More than any other band or musician I know of. From country to disco.

[rgs2001uk]

The OP mentions new music, but what does he mean by this?

New music to me could be a pile of Blind Willie Mctell recordings just uncovered in the vaults.

He mentioned about post 2000 in a previous post.

The Pineapple Thief, this group is every bit as good (if not better than) Radiohead, and certainly way better than Coldplay, how this group isnt huge is beyond me.

Acid Mothers Temple, the classic song Pink Lady Lemonade can be anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes, reminds me of early krautrock, or Floyd before they blew it with the release of DSOTM and musical mediocrity.

Edited June 12, 2014 by rgs2001uk

[Squeegee]

"recent boring, synthetic, generic, trance/techno/rap/hip hop-influenced schlock"

OK, you want to make ignorant and gross generalizations, it's clearly something you're not embarrassed about. You're also still putting words into my mouth about Warpaint. Until you have something intelligent to say it would seem pointless trying to have a reasonable and honest debate with you. You are clearly not here for a debate based on your input so far. Seems to me you're just trolling the topic and your last posts tell me you're just going to go round and round.

So moving on....

-

"La Femme is a French psyche-punk rock band^[1] [...] The band's music is described as synthetic and hypnotic influenced by Velvet Underground, Kraftwerk and mix of cold wave, punk, yéyé and surf music.^[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Femme_%28band%29"

La Femme - Psycho Tropical Berlin (full album)

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^, Can were doing this 40 years ago.

[Squeegee]

The OP mentions new music, but what does he mean by this?

New music to me could be a pile of Blind Willie Mctell recordings just uncovered in the vaults.

He mentioned about post 2000 in a previous post.

Funny you should say that, I was just thinking about the issue of recently released material that was previously hard to get or unavailable.

I think it should be fair game as long as it's not just a re-release or remaster of something formerly easy to get hold of. Here might be a good example, from an excellent compilation of remastered and formerly difficult to find Thai lukthung and morlam released a few years ago: The Sound of Siam • Leftfield Luk Thung, Jazz & Molam from Thailand 1964 -1975....

Chaweewan Dumnern - Lam Toey Chaweewan

Also, why the year 2000? 'Cos it seems like the obvious cut-off point based on a year. Having said that, it does frustrate me because I feel the seismic shift from 'classic period' to 'modern stuff' (for want of a better way of putting it) probably occurred around 1988 (in the UK at least) with Acid House.

I want to say the '90s, because a whole attitude changed as well, but surely whatever happened during that decade had already begun with the raves at the end of the '80s. Whereas the end of the classic period must have occurred sometime prior to that.

So it's frustrating because there should be a post covering Warp Records and Ninja Tune, for instance. I did manage to squeeze a Funki Porcini track in (he was signed to Ninja Tune back then) 'cos that one wasn't released 'til 2002.

But really, can we have a thread about modern music without inclusion of Aphex Twin and other influential movers and shakers of the 90s?

Surely the music is more important than having a nice round number as a cut off point. Would it be best to call it 1988 than 2000? And then.... what happens when we start disagreeing about that?

Anyway, feel free to correct me on various points there or suggest a better idea.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Squeegee

[ATF]

People that have paid money not just crappy soundless mp3 downloads http://www.officialcharts.com/albums-chart/