U.K. Abolition of Tax Personal Allowance

chiang mai · July 13, 2014

The Thai tax tables are here, scroll down the linked page a short way:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Taxable Income
(baht) Tax Rate
(%) 0-150,000 Exempt

more than 150,000 but less than 300,000 5%

more than 300,000 but less than 500,000 10%

more than 500,000 but less than 750,000 15%

more than 750,000 but less than 1,000,000 20%

more than 1,000,000 but less than 2,000,000 25%

more than 2,000,000 but less than 4,000,000 30 Over 4,000,000 35%

To be implemented for the 2013 and 2014 tax years.

Edited July 13, 2014 by chiang mai

sandyf · July 14, 2014

I believe that income that arises in the UK that cannot be moved offshore, i.e. a state pension, must be taxed at source and cannot be the subject of a double taxation treaty. It can of course be subject to personal allowance deductions, if applicable.

State pension paid abroad is not taxed at source. Any liability is collected via income paid in the UK or by direct remittance to HMRC.

chiang mai · July 14, 2014

I believe that income that arises in the UK that cannot be moved offshore, i.e. a state pension, must be taxed at source and cannot be the subject of a double taxation treaty. It can of course be subject to personal allowance deductions, if applicable.

State pension paid abroad is not taxed at source. Any liability is collected via income paid in the UK or by direct remittance to HMRC.

Yes, those are the rules at present, I am suggesting above however that it must be taxed at source in the future in the event the personal allowance is removed from expats and that it cannot be mitigated by dual taxation treaties..

Jip99 · July 14, 2014

Paying tax on your State Pension

Your tax position will depend on:

- whether you're classed as 'non-UK resident' for tax purposes

- the country in which you're living

If you spend part of your time in the UK and part abroad you're likely to be classed as a UK resident. If you move abroad permanently, you're likely to be classed as a non-UK resident.

If you are a non-resident your tax position depends on whether you live in a country with a 'double taxation agreement' with the UK. This means you won't have to pay UK tax on your State Pension, but it will be taxable in the country where you live.

If you live in a country without a 'double taxation agreement', you'll have to pay UK tax and may be taxed again abroad.

It's a good idea to get advice about paying tax on your State Pension if you live abroad. You can contact HMRC Residency.

http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/content/your-pension-while-abroad

I think you may be overlooking the difficulties in registering to pay tax in Thailand. I have been led to believe that it is far from straight forward.

Everyone I know who is expat, and non-resident for tax purposes, pays tax at source on pension income above their tax allowance. HMRC calculate the tax code based on the personal allowance less state pension and issue a Notice of Coding to (for example) a company pension provider.

As I understand it Thailand's double taxation agreement with the UK specifically excludes pensions (state or otherwise)

No option but to pay tax on all income over £10,500.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Jip99

chiang mai · July 14, 2014

Registering for tax is simple and straight forward, all you require is a tax ID number and this is easily obtained, anyone who reclaims tax on fixed rate bank deposits will have one..

sandyf · July 14, 2014

I believe that income that arises in the UK that cannot be moved offshore, i.e. a state pension, must be taxed at source and cannot be the subject of a double taxation treaty. It can of course be subject to personal allowance deductions, if applicable.

State pension paid abroad is not taxed at source. Any liability is collected via income paid in the UK or by direct remittance to HMRC.

Yes, those are the rules at present, I am suggesting above however that it must be taxed at source in the future in the event the personal allowance is removed from expats and that it cannot be mitigated by dual taxation treaties..

Why suggest something that may never occur.

How many headstones are made before the person dies.

chiang mai · July 14, 2014

I believe that income that arises in the UK that cannot be moved offshore, i.e. a state pension, must be taxed at source and cannot be the subject of a double taxation treaty. It can of course be subject to personal allowance deductions, if applicable.

State pension paid abroad is not taxed at source. Any liability is collected via income paid in the UK or by direct remittance to HMRC.

Yes, those are the rules at present, I am suggesting above however that it must be taxed at source in the future in the event the personal allowance is removed from expats and that it cannot be mitigated by dual taxation treaties..

Why suggest something that may never occur.

How many headstones are made before the person dies.

This entire thread is only slightly beyond theory and conjecture, providing "what if" scenario's to a possible future event on the basis that forewarned is forearmed, taxation is an element of that event!!!

chiang mai · July 14, 2014

Apologies that I've only just seen this post.

I first raised the issue of the personal allowance in the UK Pensions thread some months ago and the discussion followed the lines of this one but on a smaller scale. One thing that became clear is that many people think that tax residency is something that can be easily reversed, actually it can't. Whereas at one time there was no real issue about residency for tax purposes because everyone was struggling to try and become non-resident, it is now equally as difficult to become resident once again. Here's the new rules on tax residency, you might want to test yourself to see how easy it is for you, in the context of wanting to remain in Thailand along with home and family here:

http://www.cambridgetax.co.uk/ctp/New_Residence_Rules.html

In part:

The starting point is the ‘Automatically Non-Resident’ test.

Automatically Non-Resident

You cannot be UK resident if :

you spend less than 16 days in the UK during the tax year

you were not UK resident in the previous three tax years, and you spend less than 46 days in the UK; or

you have left the UK for full-time work abroad (this includes self-employed work)

For the purposes of this test, work abroad is considered to be “full-time” if it is on average more than 35 hours per week over the whole tax year. Where some employment duties are performed in the UK you can spend up to 30 working days per year in the UK without overturning non-resident status.

If you do not qualify as automatically non-resident under the test outlined above then the next step is to consider whether you would be considered to be automatically UK tax resident.

Automatically UK Resident

You will be automatically UK tax resident for a tax year if :

you spend at least 183 days in the UK during the tax year: or

your only home is in the UK for more than 90 days during the tax year and you occupy that home for at least 30 days you are in full-time work in the UK for a continuous 12 month period (not necessarily coinciding with the tax year)

In many cases it is possible to not meet the conditions of either the automatic non-resident test or the automatic resident test. In these cases you need to consider a series of further tests known as the “sufficient ties test”.Taken together, the number of your ties with the UK and the days spent in the UK will decide your tax residence status.

Here is an overview of how the UK ties and UK days tests work together :

The Ties Tests

Family Tie :

You have a UK family tie if you have

• a spouse
• a civil partner
• someone with whom you are living as a partner
• a minor child who is resident in the UK.
A minor child who is only resident in the UK because they are in full-time education in the UK will not be considered a connecting factor provided they spend fewer than 21 days in the UK outside term time. A half term holiday will count as term time for these purposes.

Accommodation Tie :

You have a UK accommodation tie if :

You have ‘available accommodation’ for a continuous period of at least 91 days in the tax year, ignoring any gaps of fewer than 16 days.

Available accommodation is widely defined and will include a home in the UK, holiday home, temporary retreat or similar’ and could include the use of a hotel if the same hotel is always used.

Work Tie :

You have a UK work tie if you spend at least 40 days working in the UK, where a working day is defined as three hours.

90-day Tie:

You will have the 90 day tie if you spent more than 90 days in the UK in at least one of the previous two tax years.

Country Tie :

This only applies when you leave the UK

You will have the UK country tie if the UK is the country where the greatest number of days has been spent.

For day counting purposes, days spent in the UK at midnight are counted.

Edited July 14, 2014 by chiang mai

sandyf · July 15, 2014

Yes, those are the rules at present, I am suggesting above however that it must be taxed at source in the future in the event the personal allowance is removed from expats and that it cannot be mitigated by dual taxation treaties..

Why suggest something that may never occur.

How many headstones are made before the person dies.

This entire thread is only slightly beyond theory and conjecture, providing "what if" scenario's to a possible future event on the basis that forewarned is forearmed, taxation is an element of that event!!!

Conjecture is certainly the name of the game. All the articles I have seen, but you may know different, have referred to investment rather than basic income.

In the absence of any direct reference to basic income I believe that the outcome will be that personal allowances cannot be used to offset tax liability originating from investment income, and that the current position in respect of basic income will remain as is.

Purely personal opinion and may very well be wrong, but not going to lose sleep over it.

There is currently an over complicated structure in place in respect of "allowable expenses", it would be a natural progression for the HMRC to create "allowable income". Today expats, tomorrow UK residents.

chiang mai · July 15, 2014

I hope that it turns out to be as you suggest, for the sake of many here.

meatboy · July 16, 2014

Yes, those are the rules at present, I am suggesting above however that it must be taxed at source in the future in the event the personal allowance is removed from expats and that it cannot be mitigated by dual taxation treaties..

Why suggest something that may never occur.

How many headstones are made before the person dies.

This entire thread is only slightly beyond theory and conjecture, providing "what if" scenario's to a possible future event on the basis that forewarned is forearmed, taxation is an element of that event!!!

Conjecture is certainly the name of the game. All the articles I have seen, but you may know different, have referred to investment rather than basic income.

In the absence of any direct reference to basic income I believe that the outcome will be that personal allowances cannot be used to offset tax liability originating from investment income, and that the current position in respect of basic income will remain as is.

Purely personal opinion and may very well be wrong, but not going to lose sleep over it.

There is currently an over complicated structure in place in respect of "allowable expenses", it would be a natural progression for the HMRC to create "allowable income". Today expats, tomorrow UK residents.

what if [yes it is a what if] your returns from an investment is your only income,the wife has to fill in a tax return form every yr.for rental income she receives from an inv.that is her only income which is below her personel allowance.

its not something Gordon brown dreamt up like the 10p fiasco,is it.

alfieconn · July 16, 2014

Have been non-resident for tax purposes for many years but had to pay CGT on sale of a UK property last year and another this year. All done via my UK accountant who is normally very much on the ball. Have double checked with him but it was something this gov brought in early on.

If that's not the case, would really like to know.

I still get an Inland Revenue form for every tax year though it's normally 'nil' to declare.

As of now I don't own any UK property or have any income there until my State Pension kicks in. Not sure whether to start taking it now or wait till I need it.

Although I work on 'mobile' offshore rigs I let my Seaman's Ticket expire thinking it wouldn't be of help any more.

I know the 'night spent in the UK' rule but haven't been there for a few years anyway.

What do I know, just a simple drilling hand.

From HMRC website (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/tax-incomegains.htm)...
Capital Gains Tax
In general you will not be liable to pay tax on capital gains if you are not resident in the UK but there are exceptions. Read more in the section 'Tax on capital gains from assets in the UK' later in this guide.
Tax on capital gains from assets in the UK
If you're not resident in the UK, whether you pay Capital Gains Tax on UK assets will depend on a number of factors:

if you have previously lived in the UK, and if so, when you left the UK, the period of time you were resident in the UK before your departure and the length of time you live abroad

whether you are still ordinarily resident (only for tax years up to and including 2012-13) in the UK - that is, your normal home is the UK

whether the assets are held for the purpose of carrying out work through a UK branch or agency

This website has details about CGT only starting in April 2015 --> http://www.step.org/details-uk-plans-capital-gains-tax-non-residents-property-disposals.

I looked into all this via a tax advisor and was told I didn't need to pay any if I sold my UK property. Maybe you have different circumstances. Ask your accountant why you aren't exempt. Does he know that you're non-resident for tax purposes? Have HMRC agreed that you are? And to be clear, being out of the UK for a few years with the intention of returning does not give you non-resident tax status. You may not pay UK tax in the years you're away, but you are still resident for tax purposes, meaning you'd still pay CGT on UK assets.. Non-resident tax status is for people that have permanently left the UK and severed all ties and have no intention of returning. That's what I have done. Left 4 years ago and haven't been back at all. I don't intend to ever live there again.

This government documents seems to clear state that they are changing the rules from April 2015 because non-residents currently don't have to pay CGT. So I think only your accountant can know why you paid it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/298759/CGT_non-residents_condoc.pdf

You would be classed as being exempt from CGT if you have been non-resident for 5 full tax years, that's as it stands now !

Bpuumike · July 16, 2014

Have been non-resident for tax purposes for many years but had to pay CGT on sale of a UK property last year and another this year. All done via my UK accountant who is normally very much on the ball. Have double checked with him but it was something this gov brought in early on.

If that's not the case, would really like to know.

I still get an Inland Revenue form for every tax year though it's normally 'nil' to declare.

As of now I don't own any UK property or have any income there until my State Pension kicks in. Not sure whether to start taking it now or wait till I need it.

Although I work on 'mobile' offshore rigs I let my Seaman's Ticket expire thinking it wouldn't be of help any more.

I know the 'night spent in the UK' rule but haven't been there for a few years anyway.

What do I know, just a simple drilling hand.

From HMRC website (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/tax-incomegains.htm)...
Capital Gains Tax

In general you will not be liable to pay tax on capital gains if you are not resident in the UK but there are exceptions. Read more in the section 'Tax on capital gains from assets in the UK' later in this guide.

Tax on capital gains from assets in the UK

If you're not resident in the UK, whether you pay Capital Gains Tax on UK assets will depend on a number of factors:

if you have previously lived in the UK, and if so, when you left the UK, the period of time you were resident in the UK before your departure and the length of time you live abroad

whether you are still ordinarily resident (only for tax years up to and including 2012-13) in the UK - that is, your normal home is the UK

whether the assets are held for the purpose of carrying out work through a UK branch or agency

This website has details about CGT only starting in April 2015 --> http://www.step.org/details-uk-plans-capital-gains-tax-non-residents-property-disposals.

I looked into all this via a tax advisor and was told I didn't need to pay any if I sold my UK property. Maybe you have different circumstances. Ask your accountant why you aren't exempt. Does he know that you're non-resident for tax purposes? Have HMRC agreed that you are? And to be clear, being out of the UK for a few years with the intention of returning does not give you non-resident tax status. You may not pay UK tax in the years you're away, but you are still resident for tax purposes, meaning you'd still pay CGT on UK assets.. Non-resident tax status is for people that have permanently left the UK and severed all ties and have no intention of returning. That's what I have done. Left 4 years ago and haven't been back at all. I don't intend to ever live there again.

This government documents seems to clear state that they are changing the rules from April 2015 because non-residents currently don't have to pay CGT. So I think only your accountant can know why you paid it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/298759/CGT_non-residents_condoc.pdf

You would be classed as being exempt from CGT if you have been non-resident for 5 full tax years, that's as it stands now !

I have been Non-Resident for tax purposes for 17 years. The CGT paid was on a second home, not a primary residence (which I haven't lived in for 12 years). My accountant who is usually very much on the ball is double-checking with HMRC.

mccw · July 16, 2014

I have been advised that can be free of capital gains tax from the first year of less than 90 days residency ; but must be sure to remain non resident for 5 or more years there after or one would become liable.

I using this now.

From next year they are changing the rules apparently- so on UK property all non residents will be liable for CGT regardless.

Have been non-resident for tax purposes for many years but had to pay CGT on sale of a UK property last year and another this year. All done via my UK accountant who is normally very much on the ball. Have double checked with him but it was something this gov brought in early on.

If that's not the case, would really like to know.

I still get an Inland Revenue form for every tax year though it's normally 'nil' to declare.

As of now I don't own any UK property or have any income there until my State Pension kicks in. Not sure whether to start taking it now or wait till I need it.

Although I work on 'mobile' offshore rigs I let my Seaman's Ticket expire thinking it wouldn't be of help any more.

I know the 'night spent in the UK' rule but haven't been there for a few years anyway.

What do I know, just a simple drilling hand.

From HMRC website (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/tax-incomegains.htm)...
Capital Gains Tax

In general you will not be liable to pay tax on capital gains if you are not resident in the UK but there are exceptions. Read more in the section 'Tax on capital gains from assets in the UK' later in this guide.

Tax on capital gains from assets in the UK

If you're not resident in the UK, whether you pay Capital Gains Tax on UK assets will depend on a number of factors:

if you have previously lived in the UK, and if so, when you left the UK, the period of time you were resident in the UK before your departure and the length of time you live abroad

whether you are still ordinarily resident (only for tax years up to and including 2012-13) in the UK - that is, your normal home is the UK

whether the assets are held for the purpose of carrying out work through a UK branch or agency

This website has details about CGT only starting in April 2015 --> http://www.step.org/details-uk-plans-capital-gains-tax-non-residents-property-disposals.

I looked into all this via a tax advisor and was told I didn't need to pay any if I sold my UK property. Maybe you have different circumstances. Ask your accountant why you aren't exempt. Does he know that you're non-resident for tax purposes? Have HMRC agreed that you are? And to be clear, being out of the UK for a few years with the intention of returning does not give you non-resident tax status. You may not pay UK tax in the years you're away, but you are still resident for tax purposes, meaning you'd still pay CGT on UK assets.. Non-resident tax status is for people that have permanently left the UK and severed all ties and have no intention of returning. That's what I have done. Left 4 years ago and haven't been back at all. I don't intend to ever live there again.

This government documents seems to clear state that they are changing the rules from April 2015 because non-residents currently don't have to pay CGT. So I think only your accountant can know why you paid it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/298759/CGT_non-residents_condoc.pdf

You would be classed as being exempt from CGT if you have been non-resident for 5 full tax years, that's as it stands now !

alfieconn · July 16, 2014

This story is definitely true and is being discussed, so not sure why you think it's not true, unless you're just a troll. Will affect me, as I'm non-resident for tax purposes and therefore assume I wouldn't be considered as having a close connection with UK. I left many years ago and have no intention of returning. So if this tax is introduced I'll be $2K a year worse off, unless I sell my UK properties, which I'm now considering. Not because of this tax, but because now may be a good time to sell - high prices, CTG probably coming next year, etc.

Too late I'm afraid, CGT is already in effect. Had to pay it on one property last year and another this year.

Doesn't apply to your principle residence (unless you're an MP and can juggle this around) but the Ex got that anyway.

Regarding pensions, tax allowances, etc., they don't care about us expats simply because we can't vote.

At the moment people that are non-resident for tax purposes don't have to pay CGT on UK assets. This is due to change in 2015. But apparently only the increase in value from 2015 onwards will be taxable. But no idea how they will work out that value. Not finalized yet, but seems pretty certain to happen.

I think many Brits that come to live here keep ties with UK and don't even want to be non-resident for tax purposes. So they are still in the tax regime and so have to pay CGT.

You said you had to pay CgT. But are you non-resident for tax purposes? Is that what you claim on your self-assessment and have HMRC agreed with you if you have?

Have been non-resident for tax purposes for many years but had to pay CGT on sale of a UK property last year and another this year. All done via my UK accountant who is normally very much on the ball. Have double checked with him but it was something this gov brought in early on.

If that's not the case, would really like to know.

I still get an Inland Revenue form for every tax year though it's normally 'nil' to declare.

As of now I don't own any UK property or have any income there until my State Pension kicks in. Not sure whether to start taking it now or wait till I need it.

Although I work on 'mobile' offshore rigs I let my Seaman's Ticket expire thinking it wouldn't be of help any more.

I know the 'night spent in the UK' rule but haven't been there for a few years anyway.

What do I know, just a simple drilling hand.

Implementing a capital gains tax charge on non-residents:

consultation

This consultation document outlines the proposed design for the extension of capital gains tax to address the current imbalance between the treatment of UK and non-UK residents disposing of UK residential property. This measure will bring the UK into line with many other countries that already charge capital gains tax on the basis of the location of the residential property rather than the location of the seller.

The government recognises that this change is not straightforward to introduce. For this reason, the charge will apply from April 2015, and only to gains arising from that date. We will ensure, as far as possible, that the extended CGT charge is fair and sustainable, without imposing unnecessary or intrusive burdens on non-residents.

This consultation seeks views on the proposed design of the charge. It is an opportunity for stakeholders to feed in their views to ensure that the policy change works effectively to achieve its objectives. The government welcomes responses and engagement in the consultation process from all interested parties.

Bpuumike · July 16, 2014

This story is definitely true and is being discussed, so not sure why you think it's not true, unless you're just a troll. Will affect me, as I'm non-resident for tax purposes and therefore assume I wouldn't be considered as having a close connection with UK. I left many years ago and have no intention of returning. So if this tax is introduced I'll be $2K a year worse off, unless I sell my UK properties, which I'm now considering. Not because of this tax, but because now may be a good time to sell - high prices, CTG probably coming next year, etc.

Too late I'm afraid, CGT is already in effect. Had to pay it on one property last year and another this year.

Doesn't apply to your principle residence (unless you're an MP and can juggle this around) but the Ex got that anyway.

Regarding pensions, tax allowances, etc., they don't care about us expats simply because we can't vote.

At the moment people that are non-resident for tax purposes don't have to pay CGT on UK assets. This is due to change in 2015. But apparently only the increase in value from 2015 onwards will be taxable. But no idea how they will work out that value. Not finalized yet, but seems pretty certain to happen.

I think many Brits that come to live here keep ties with UK and don't even want to be non-resident for tax purposes. So they are still in the tax regime and so have to pay CGT.

You said you had to pay CgT. But are you non-resident for tax purposes? Is that what you claim on your self-assessment and have HMRC agreed with you if you have?

Have been non-resident for tax purposes for many years but had to pay CGT on sale of a UK property last year and another this year. All done via my UK accountant who is normally very much on the ball. Have double checked with him but it was something this gov brought in early on.

If that's not the case, would really like to know.

I still get an Inland Revenue form for every tax year though it's normally 'nil' to declare.

As of now I don't own any UK property or have any income there until my State Pension kicks in. Not sure whether to start taking it now or wait till I need it.

Although I work on 'mobile' offshore rigs I let my Seaman's Ticket expire thinking it wouldn't be of help any more.

I know the 'night spent in the UK' rule but haven't been there for a few years anyway.

What do I know, just a simple drilling hand.

Implementing a capital gains tax charge on non-residents:

consultation

This consultation document outlines the proposed design for the extension of capital gains tax to address the current imbalance between the treatment of UK and non-UK residents disposing of UK residential property. This measure will bring the UK into line with many other countries that already charge capital gains tax on the basis of the location of the residential property rather than the location of the seller.

The government recognises that this change is not straightforward to introduce. For this reason, the charge will apply from April 2015, and only to gains arising from that date. We will ensure, as far as possible, that the extended CGT charge is fair and sustainable, without imposing unnecessary or intrusive burdens on non-residents.

This consultation seeks views on the proposed design of the charge. It is an opportunity for stakeholders to feed in their views to ensure that the policy change works effectively to achieve its objectives. The government welcomes responses and engagement in the consultation process from all interested parties.

Thanks for the info and I'll let you know what results I get.

alfieconn · July 16, 2014

At the moment people that are non-resident for tax purposes don't have to pay CGT on UK assets. This is due to change in 2015. But apparently only the increase in value from 2015 onwards will be taxable. But no idea how they will work out that value. Not finalized yet, but seems pretty certain to happen.

I think many Brits that come to live here keep ties with UK and don't even want to be non-resident for tax purposes. So they are still in the tax regime and so have to pay CGT.

You said you had to pay CgT. But are you non-resident for tax purposes? Is that what you claim on your self-assessment and have HMRC agreed with you if you have?

Have been non-resident for tax purposes for many years but had to pay CGT on sale of a UK property last year and another this year. All done via my UK accountant who is normally very much on the ball. Have double checked with him but it was something this gov brought in early on.

If that's not the case, would really like to know.

I still get an Inland Revenue form for every tax year though it's normally 'nil' to declare.

As of now I don't own any UK property or have any income there until my State Pension kicks in. Not sure whether to start taking it now or wait till I need it.

Although I work on 'mobile' offshore rigs I let my Seaman's Ticket expire thinking it wouldn't be of help any more.

I know the 'night spent in the UK' rule but haven't been there for a few years anyway.

What do I know, just a simple drilling hand.

Implementing a capital gains tax charge on non-residents:

consultation

This consultation document outlines the proposed design for the extension of capital gains tax to address the current imbalance between the treatment of UK and non-UK residents disposing of UK residential property. This measure will bring the UK into line with many other countries that already charge capital gains tax on the basis of the location of the residential property rather than the location of the seller.

The government recognises that this change is not straightforward to introduce. For this reason, the charge will apply from April 2015, and only to gains arising from that date. We will ensure, as far as possible, that the extended CGT charge is fair and sustainable, without imposing unnecessary or intrusive burdens on non-residents.

This consultation seeks views on the proposed design of the charge. It is an opportunity for stakeholders to feed in their views to ensure that the policy change works effectively to achieve its objectives. The government welcomes responses and engagement in the consultation process from all interested parties.

Thanks for the info and I'll let you know what results I get.

Perhaps you need to have a serious word with your accountant !

billd766 · July 19, 2014

Last month I wrote to my MP for Taunton Deane about this and he said that he would contact the Inland Revenue to find out what may happen.

I got a reply yesterday from his office which basically said that at the 2014 budget that they were consulting on wether the Personal tax allowances should be restricted for non UK residents and if so, how the restriction should be made.

The consultation will be used to help the government to understand the impact and feasability of any change. Officials will work with and note the views of all interested parties and stakeholders on the issues raised during the consultation and my comments have been noted.

So get writing to your MPs asap and make your views known.

I pointed out that if I cannot afford to live in Thailand I would bring my family to the UK and expect support from my MP in obtaining accommodation and all the allowances that I am entitled to and assistance to get my wife into the UK. My son is a dual citizen so there should be no problems with his entry.

Old Guy · July 19, 2014

Last month I wrote to my MP for Taunton Deane about this and he said that he would contact the Inland Revenue to find out what may happen.

I got a reply yesterday from his office which basically said that at the 2014 budget that they were consulting on wether the Personal tax allowances should be restricted for non UK residents and if so, how the restriction should be made.

The consultation will be used to help the government to understand the impact and feasability of any change. Officials will work with and note the views of all interested parties and stakeholders on the issues raised during the consultation and my comments have been noted.

So get writing to your MPs asap and make your views known.

I pointed out that if I cannot afford to live in Thailand I would bring my family to the UK and expect support from my MP in obtaining accommodation and all the allowances that I am entitled to and assistance to get my wife into the UK. My son is a dual citizen so there should be no problems with his entry.

Old Guy · July 19, 2014

I am also in touch with my 'potential' M.P. Mr. Hilary Benn and imparted the same message. He/his secretary have been quiet over the past 3 weeks however, possibly they are all on holiday. My comments went as far as Chancellor George Osborne but all he could add as this stage is that the selection of individual exemptions would be made public and above board. I also have been pushing the fact that any savings would be more than offset by the cost of returning expats.

billd766 · July 19, 2014

I am also in touch with my 'potential' M.P. Mr. Hilary Benn and imparted the same message. He/his secretary have been quiet over the past 3 weeks however, possibly they are all on holiday. My comments went as far as Chancellor George Osborne but all he could add as this stage is that the selection of individual exemptions would be made public and above board. I also have been pushing the fact that any savings would be more than offset by the cost of returning expats.

I emailed my MP, Jeremy Browne on 23rd June and got a reply yesterday 18th July so judging by my MP your response should be up next week. If not write the bugger another email and try going through his constituency office as well.

delboy · July 21, 2014

The UK government website says this about paying tax on the State Pension

You may have to pay UK tax on your State Pension if you live abroad. This will depend on:

your taxable income
whether you’re classed as a ‘UK resident’ or ‘non-UK resident’ for tax purposes

UK residents

The rules are the same as for people living in the UK - you’ll only pay tax if your taxable income is over a certain amount.

Non-UK residents

Non-UK residents don’t pay UK tax on their State Pension but may pay tax in the country they live in. But if you live in a country without a 'double taxation agreement' you’ll have to pay UK tax and may be taxed in the country you live in as well.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/tax-on-your-state-pension

So, if the allowance is withdrawn because we are 'Non-UK Residents', then surely we can choose to pay tax in Thailand.

Pormax · August 6, 2014

The UK government website says this about paying tax on the State Pension

You may have to pay UK tax on your State Pension if you live abroad. This will depend on:

your taxable income

whether you’re classed as a ‘UK resident’ or ‘non-UK resident’ for tax purposes

UK residents
The rules are the same as for people living in the UK - you’ll only pay tax if your taxable income is over a certain amount.
Non-UK residents
Non-UK residents don’t pay UK tax on their State Pension but may pay tax in the country they live in. But if you live in a country without a 'double taxation agreement' you’ll have to pay UK tax and may be taxed in the country you live in as well.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/tax-on-your-state-pension

So, if the allowance is withdrawn because we are 'Non-UK Residents', then surely we can choose to pay tax in Thailand.

Unfortunately this is not the case. There are a number of exceptions to the Dual Taxation process which differs according to what country you retire too.

I came to Thailand from Cyprus and there they have a Dual Taxation agreement which does allow all taxes on pensions, government or personal, to be taxed in Cyprus. According to the web sites I have looked at and financial people I have contacted, this is not the case with Thailand. Tax on Government paid pensions if one lives in Thailand must be paid in the country they originate.

As regards the very real possibility of the Personal tax allowance for Expats being removed I have been told that a Bill will be put up for Royal Consent this month. Saying that, I have not received any concrete proof on this, it is still conjecture but normally there is no smoke without fire. Other countries, I believe Australia, have already done this.

Meanwhile I am taking action to remove my private pension away from the UK tax man's clutches as when I start drawing my state pension at the end of this year I will be well over the PTA (just over the allowance now ) and would be taxed 20% on this, so I am putting it into QROPS.

billd766 · August 6, 2014

Last week I got a bill for £198.55 for underpayment of tax in 2012. This was similar to another one I had in January and back then I spoke to HMRC and they looked into it and said that I didn't need to apy anything at all as it was a mistake on their part.

Fortunately I scan and save all the stuff that comes from them as well as saving my online Self assessment tax forms.

I made up an excel spread sheet comprising of my 3 pensions, State, RAF and company pensions plus the information from the tax codes sent to me every year. On those it gives a braekdown of state pension, tax free allowance and tax coding.

Over the last 5 tax years since I got my pension they have never come up with the right figures (always over) and the tax codes varied wildly.

As the tax coding only comes once a year I just used to say yeah, right and file it.

When I tied it all together it was way out.

Any way I rang them on Monday and spoke to a very helpful lady and explained my problem and she sorted out the tax "overpayment" for 2012. Wonderful I thought and then I mentioned that I live in Thailand and that my pension is frozen at the 2009 rates. I didn't know that she said and put me on hold for a few moments. When she came back on line she told me that she had adjusted all the tax codes for the last 5 years and that HMRC actually owed me £300 and where did I want it sent. As I have no UK bank I told her that they can take it off my next tax bill. She also said that she had noted that my pension was frozen on my tax file.

Go back 5 years in your records if you keep them and you may have a pleasant surprise too.

MAJIC · September 7, 2014

I am still at a loss to work out the benefit other than to the employer to have access to endless amounts of labour who are willing to work for minimum wage.

Willing? yes I know you understand they do not have a choice! Hey! this is westernised slavery,which is one step up from forced labour!

Edited September 7, 2014 by MAJIC

Old Guy · September 11, 2014

I wrote to my (potential) M.P. a few weeks ago and have just today received a reply. I quote salient points:

"Information on the Internet surrounding the issue seems to show that any abolition of Personal Allowance would only affect retired civil servants. Expats who remain UK residents for tax purposes should in principle not be affected. But there is no guarantee that any new legislation would only affect civil servants."

This is taken from the letter which is written by 'an intern' of Hilary Benn, M.P. at the House of Commons.

I don't think he has any idea of the subject. Why does this intern take his info from the internet ? And why only affecting civil servants ?

I am not going to follow this up as it is clearly a waste of time. Just have to wait until the Consultation Closure on 9th October.

billd766 · September 11, 2014

I wrote to my (potential) M.P. a few weeks ago and have just today received a reply. I quote salient points:

"Information on the Internet surrounding the issue seems to show that any abolition of Personal Allowance would only affect retired civil servants. Expats who remain UK residents for tax purposes should in principle not be affected. But there is no guarantee that any new legislation would only affect civil servants."

This is taken from the letter which is written by 'an intern' of Hilary Benn, M.P. at the House of Commons.

I don't think he has any idea of the subject. Why does this intern take his info from the internet ? And why only affecting civil servants ?

I am not going to follow this up as it is clearly a waste of time. Just have to wait until the Consultation Closure on 9th October.

I am still waiting for a reply from my MP, Jeremy Browne, Liberal from Taunton Deane after a month.

GavinK · September 11, 2014

"Expats who remain UK residents for tax purposes should in principle not be affected."

Yes, clearly he has no idea !

smedly · September 11, 2014

Last month I wrote to my MP for Taunton Deane about this and he said that he would contact the Inland Revenue to find out what may happen.

I got a reply yesterday from his office which basically said that at the 2014 budget that they were consulting on wether the Personal tax allowances should be restricted for non UK residents and if so, how the restriction should be made.

The consultation will be used to help the government to understand the impact and feasability of any change. Officials will work with and note the views of all interested parties and stakeholders on the issues raised during the consultation and my comments have been noted.

So get writing to your MPs asap and make your views known.

I pointed out that if I cannot afford to live in Thailand I would bring my family to the UK and expect support from my MP in obtaining accommodation and all the allowances that I am entitled to and assistance to get my wife into the UK. My son is a dual citizen so there should be no problems with his entry.

I don't think you need to worry about this if most of your income is from the UK - say a private pension from working in the UK and state pension, they are going to apply an "economic connection rule" that basically means if say over 80% or 90% of your world income is derived earned and taxed in the UK then you will still be entitled to the PTA without change from what it is now

icare999 · September 11, 2014

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible
This story is definitely true and is being discussed, so not sure why you think it's not true, unless you're just a troll. Will affect me, as I'm non-resident for tax purposes and therefore assume I wouldn't be considered as having a close connection with UK. I left many years ago and have no intention of returning. So if this tax is introduced I'll be $2K a year worse off, unless I sell my UK properties, which I'm now considering. Not because of this tax, but because now may be a good time to sell - high prices, CTG probably coming next year, etc.

Too late I'm afraid, CGT is already in effect. Had to pay it on one property last year and another this year.

Doesn't apply to your principle residence (unless you're an MP and can juggle this around) but the Ex got that anyway.

Regarding pensions, tax allowances, etc., they don't care about us expats simply because we can't vote.

nonsense CGT is not payable at moment for non residents provided you dont return and become resident within 5 years of sale If you paid threw obviously you were stupid or not classified as non resident

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