Starting Wisp Business

[Ilya]

Hello everybody,

I just wonder if anyone has dealed with ISP business in Thailand.

What I'm planning to do is to start Wireless ISP in some area, where no acceptable internet connection is possible.

Most probably one of the islands, which is inhabbited by farangs, but still don't have any reliable connection. I'm going to have sattelite connection myself (iDirect or VSAT still not sure) and distribute access via wireless cells.

From the technical point of view I don't have any questions, I had experience of starting up and running this kind of projects before at home.

The only thing which is I am not sure about is local regulations.

First of all - Is there any additional problems for farang to own ISP (yeah I've read of 49%) ?

I suppose that this kind of activity requires special licences, is it hard to get them ?

Is there any special regulations for using unlicensed (at least in America and Europe) part of 5Ghz spectrum ?

Thank You !

Update: Almost forgot the last question, I heard that there are some restrictions in place if You want to be connected directly to international backbone (my case), instead of using local goverment controlled one. Does anybody have more precise information on this ?

Edited June 19, 2006 by Ilya

[monty]

Gonna be very difficult!

5 Ghz is not allowed in Thailand, only the standard 2.4Ghz (802.11 b/g).

ISP's do need licenses, your major problem will be bandwidth...

Eventhough supposedly there is no monopoly on where you get your bandwidth from anymore (the iDiresct/vsat you think about), in real life, every ISP has to get it's bandwidth from the Communications Authority of Thailand (CAT).

This means the only way to get internet on the Islands is through one of the ISP's supplying satellite access (Ji-net & CSLoxinfo). Which would make it not very viable for you.

Even on the mainland, all ISP's have to cough up around 25000 Baht/month for a 1024kbps international link through CAT...

On this link

http://iir.ngi.nectec.or.th/internet/map/current.html

you can see pretty much all ISP's getting their international internet through cat's international gateway (IIG).

Only a few of the very biggest ISP's currently have a small part of their international bandwidth directly, mainly through Singapore's Singtel gateway...

I do know of one of Thaivisa's members having a microwave link between the mainland and Phangan Island, just using of the shelf 802.11 equipment combined with high quality directional antennae....

Good luck, but don't have too much hope in dealing with the Thai officialdom. Things are done here in a very different way then to what we are used to....

[monty]

Read up on the next article...

http://www.bia.co.th/027.html

[Ilya]

First of all thank you for your response.

Now, if you let me, some more precise questions:

5 Ghz is not allowed in Thailand, only the standard 2.4Ghz (802.11 b/g).

Ок, I can use 2.4 as well, but it will be not 802.11 and WiMAX for shure - those protocols are nightmare if you're going to sell services. So as far as I understood if I use 2.4, then authorities don't care of protocol, or they do ?

Eventhough supposedly there is no monopoly on where you get your bandwidth from anymore (the iDiresct/vsat you think about), in real life, every ISP has to get it's bandwidth from the Communications Authority of Thailand (CAT).

I don't want to sound boring, but if legaly there is no monopoly, then what can happen if I will put a sattelite dish and get bandwidth from different operator ?

In my case I'm looking at BusenessCom (http://www.bcsatellite.net/).

Good luck, but don't have too much hope in dealing with the Thai officialdom. Things are done here in a very different way then to what we are used to....

I'm from Russian Federation, so I know what does real bureaucracy means

Regrding the link, that you've provided - can it be outdated ?

They state there that I should have license for any type of telecom business.

There is also statement, that Thailand, being a member of WTO, should liberalise theie telecom industry and open it to foreign investors by 2006. And it is 2006 now

[monty]

The link might very well be outdated, but things are moving much slower then planned.

Both TOT and CAt should have gone public long time already, but it still didn't happen!!!

It seems Thailand is fiercely protective about the internet/telecom business...

Not sure about all 2.4Ghz equipment being free, there are lots of things working on that frequency, like A/V transmitters etc, but I think they all need to have a very small power output...

Another hurdle would be your transmitting transponder on your sat dish. Every piece of R/F equipment needs to be aproved by the relevant authorities, so I guess to go 100% legal will be very difficult.

If you are only 99.9% legal, you'll be OK until the first Thai person thinks he can do the same, or he thinks you are taking possible revenue away from him, resulting in immediate shutdown, or even criminal charges... (possesion and use of uncertified transmitters on Thai soil is an offence punishable by jail!!!)

But, if you know how to handle Russian bureaucracy you might stand a chance I worked in Moscow for a couple of months (about 14 years ago) and I did notice a slight inefficiency of your local government

I don't want to sound boring, but if legaly there is no monopoly, then what can happen if I will put a sattelite dish and get bandwidth from different operator ?

In my case I'm looking at BusenessCom (http://www.bcsatellite.net/).

Well, somebody will have to give you your ISP's license before you can start, they might be a bit reluctant unless you buy your bandwidth at the excorbitant CAT prices...

Oh, and on the 802.11 protocols, if you go with high end equipment like Cisco it's pretty OK/reliable... Just put an extra 0 behind the prices compared with the home stuff (like Lynksys, which is actually owned by cicso!)...

Edited June 19, 2006 by monty

[Ilya]

Not sure about all 2.4Ghz equipment being free, there are lots of things working on that frequency, like A/V transmitters etc, but I think they all need to have a very small power output...

Equipment, that I am going to use is only 100 mWt, I used it in a few projects here, but only in one 2.4 was involved, however it showed really good stability with lots of 802.11 equipment around.

Another hurdle would be your transmitting transponder on your sat dish. Every piece of R/F equipment needs to be aproved by the relevant authorities, so I guess to go 100% legal will be very difficult.

Sh*t, this is what I was afraid of, we have the same rules here in RF - you can't even get such equipment inside the country without license from federal bureau, and if you want to accquire license you must buy separate whole set of equipment for them, and then pay them for the test, and the general answer is - sorry, it operates in freqency used by military forces

Even if they have approoved before the different set of equipment operating in the same frequency.

If you are only 99.9% legal, you'll be OK until the first Thai person thinks he can do the same, or he thinks you are taking possible revenue away from him, resulting in immediate shutdown, or even criminal charges... (possesion and use of uncertified transmitters on Thai soil is an offence punishable by jail!!!)

But, if you know how to handle Russian bureaucracy you might stand a chance I worked in Moscow for a couple of months (about 14 years ago) and I did notice a slight inefficiency of your local government

Inefficiency of our government I HATE it !

Ok, taking in account my expirience with authorities in my home country, I see that it almost impossible for a farang to start this type of business here (at least with the investments under 1 mln. $).

Then I'll be looking for islands in different asian countries, cos I really like to relocate to Asia, but I don't like the idea of owning another bar/restaurant/guesthouse - I value my expirience in IT field too much to turn back on it.

Thanks a lot !

P.S. If you're interested in wireless ISP networks - take a look at Motorola Canopy solution - it designed from the ground for being used by ISPs. It uses unlicensed spectrum and deals good with interference. I used general 802.11 equipment before, including Cisco 12xx series, and must say, that anyway it is no way for even midsize ISP with it - it designed for WLANs, and not cos-effective enough to connect home customers.

[LivinLOS]

I started to investigate this idea a while ago.. Thought of WiMAX while I did some research but seemed a hodge podge..

Where I am in a bowl of a bay with 1000's and 10,000's opf farangs, a lack of fixed lines, crap ADSL, etc even a very limited investment and uplink would be resellable.

Enquiries I made was that to be involved in any end user wisp idea would require a licence that would be hard to get and rapidly approached more investment than I would bring into this country (more than I would be happy to walk away from).. When I pointed out that a WISP project like this is no different really than starbucks having hotspot or a Hotel charging for per hour wireless that just got blank looks.

Once again Thai beurocracy and red tape stopped a possible business to employ Thai people.. No problem for me, I dont need the money or employment just thought it would be an interesting biz at about the right time.

[Prasert]

A lot of regulations already mentioned here. But starting a wisp is not impossible. KSC, ThaiFi, and Ichiwawa are a few examples.

Ilya: check your mail

[Khun Bob]

A lot of regulations already mentioned here. But starting a wisp is not impossible. KSC, ThaiFi, and Ichiwawa are a few examples.

Ilya: check your mail

Prasert - could you send me a copy of the email sent to ilya please ?

Thanks in advance...

[Prasert]

A lot of regulations already mentioned here. But starting a wisp is not impossible. KSC, ThaiFi, and Ichiwawa are a few examples.

Ilya: check your mail

Prasert - could you send me a copy of the email sent to ilya please ?

Thanks in advance...

Didn't save it in my sent items...

Telling about my business would be advertising and that's not allowed here. But you're welcome to put all your questions in a PM and I'll answer them (maybe in 2 days since I'm currently in Bangkok)