Suthep defends his riot control role in 2010

[englishoak]

Well I was there and innocent nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders were murdered in cold blood by you know who and under Sutheps orders of shoot. Of the injured or dead how many had simply leg injuries ?

Some people have it conveniently back to front here of who opened fire and was doing the shooting and sniping. No surprises there

[whybother]

So now we need to examine the autopsy reports and fin out how many dead and wounded were shot in the legs with buckshot. I think none were.

I think high powered rifles were used and most were shot in the head or in the back.

So either someone is lieing or someone is not obeying orders.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Have you seen the reports of all 90 dead and thousands injured? I think you don't know what you're talking about!

[whybother]

Well I am sorry, but why on earth is a civilian politician leading the command of soldiers in this context?

What the hell does he know about crowd control or the lethality of shooting shotguns anywhere at anyone. Absolutely ludicrous situation .

He deserves the book thrown at him for issuing idiotic lethal orders.

Don't civilian leaders sign off on most orders like this one?

[whybother]

Well I was there and innocent nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders were murdered in cold blood by you know who and under Sutheps orders of shoot. Of the injured or dead how many had simply leg injuries ?

Some people have it conveniently back to front here of who opened fire and was doing the shooting and sniping. No surprises there

You SAW nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders being shot?? You KNOW that they were shot under Suthep's orders?

Of those that were killed or injured, how many medical reports have you read? Do YOU know how many had leg injuries?

Were you there when the shooting between the army and the red shirts started?

Do you know why the red shirts were armed and were shooting at the army?

You don't know anything.

[gemini81]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

Yes and there are some childern that still miss their mums dads and relatives?

They got their 7 million baht payout didn't they? How about the families of soldiers who were victims, or must we think selectively? Where is their families' jackpot payout?

Edited June 10, 2014 by gemini81

[englishoak]

Well I was there and innocent nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders were murdered in cold blood by you know who and under Sutheps orders of shoot. Of the injured or dead how many had simply leg injuries ?

Some people have it conveniently back to front here of who opened fire and was doing the shooting and sniping. No surprises there

You SAW nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders being shot?? You KNOW that they were shot under Suthep's orders?

Of those that were killed or injured, how many medical reports have you read? Do YOU know how many had leg injuries?

Were you there when the shooting between the army and the red shirts started?

Do you know why the red shirts were armed and were shooting at the army?

You don't know anything.

Yes i saw and so did the world via live media and recorded and witnessed by many. Orders to open fire were given as Suthep has said under his instruction.

Why are you asking me about the leg injuries ? i asked that question in the first place so unless you can answer ME I suggest you go start reading the stats and report back like a good boy.

I was right in the middle of it in Bangkok where were you ?

Finally yes I do, do you ?

And you sir are a troll

Edited June 10, 2014 by englishoak

[philw]

So now we need to examine the autopsy reports and fin out how many dead and wounded were shot in the legs with buckshot. I think none were.

I think high powered rifles were used and most were shot in the head or in the back.

So either someone is lieing or someone is not obeying orders.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Have you seen the reports of all 90 dead and thousands injured? I think you don't know what you're talking about!

I think he does know what he is talking about.

Have you read the autopsy reports ???

[whybother]

So now we need to examine the autopsy reports and fin out how many dead and wounded were shot in the legs with buckshot. I think none were.

I think high powered rifles were used and most were shot in the head or in the back.

So either someone is lieing or someone is not obeying orders.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Have you seen the reports of all 90 dead and thousands injured? I think you don't know what you're talking about!

I think he does know what he is talking about.

Have you read the autopsy reports ???

No. I'm sure NCFC hasn't either. And I'm quite sure you haven't.

... sent from my phone.

[Baerboxer]

Suthep, whether you love him or loathe him had to make a very difficult decision during that time, the order to use live rounds knowing full well of the consequences of their use will forever be his burden to bear, I don't believe for one minute he made the decision lightly either, or alone, and took any great pleasure in doing so.

I don't believe he's a cold blooded murderer anymore than Yingluck was, which might come as a surprise to many

Get real! The man is ruthless and will do anything to get his way..........He is a murderer, end of story.

Why wait for the courts and evidence - it's called a trial.

Hey, but you already know all the answers - Tarit and PTP said so.

[Baerboxer]

Well I was there and innocent nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders were murdered in cold blood by you know who and under Sutheps orders of shoot. Of the injured or dead how many had simply leg injuries ?

Some people have it conveniently back to front here of who opened fire and was doing the shooting and sniping. No surprises there

You SAW nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders being shot?? You KNOW that they were shot under Suthep's orders?

Of those that were killed or injured, how many medical reports have you read? Do YOU know how many had leg injuries?

Were you there when the shooting between the army and the red shirts started?

Do you know why the red shirts were armed and were shooting at the army?

You don't know anything.

Yes i saw and so did the world via live media and recorded and witnessed by many. Orders to open fire were given as Suthep has said under his instruction.

Why are you asking me about the leg injuries ? i asked that question in the first place so unless you can answer ME I suggest you go start reading the stats and report back like a good boy.

I was right in the middle of it in Bangkok where were you ?

Finally yes I do, do you ?

And you sir are a troll

You were there and actually saw who fired the shots that killed the nurse, the foreign journalists and the innocent bystanders? You saw these defenseless people shot in cold blood?

Have you provided your sworn witness statements to the authorities? Did you take any photos?

[Baerboxer]

Suthep, whether you love him or loathe him had to make a very difficult decision during that time, the order to use live rounds knowing full well of the consequences of their use will forever be his burden to bear, I don't believe for one minute he made the decision lightly either, or alone, and took any great pleasure in doing so.

I don't believe he's a cold blooded murderer anymore than Yingluck was, which might come as a surprise to many

Get real! The man is ruthless and will do anything to get his way..........He is a murderer, end of story.

All Businessmen, Politicians and Military Leaders are ruthless to an extent, you don't win contracts, votes, or wars for being a pussy !!

I totally respect your point of view, however, have you ever had to make a decision that is about to result in the possibility of taking of someones life or made a decision that cost the loss of life?

based on your sentiments, if anything he would be guilty of "conspiracy to murder" but a judge will have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the intent was to kill the protesters without remorse and extreme prejudice.

I agree with all you say FH, But, it is up to the prosecution, the AG's office to prove beyond all reasonable doubt. The job of the judges is to decide, based on all evidence presented, including the defense if they have. Innocent until proven guilty unlike the idea many posters adopt.

[ikke]

I'm afraid once Suthep gave the orders to shoot live rounds the damage was done but at least he's admitted his guilt which is more than you can say for the man who gave the orders for the men in black to open fire.

Easy to admit guilt if you know in advance that you never have to face the consequences.

[rabas]

Well I was there and innocent nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders were murdered in cold blood by you know who and under Sutheps orders of shoot. Of the injured or dead how many had simply leg injuries ?

Some people have it conveniently back to front here of who opened fire and was doing the shooting and sniping. No surprises there

Well, I was there too, was that you in the red shirt? I have no idea and no evidence who was actually targeting nurses, medics, international journalists and people in the temple, but clearly they were targeted for killing.

If you remember, the entire exercise is 2010 was an attempt by Thaksin to bring down the Abhisit government presumably by invoking a military response. They tried on April 10 but failed because not all of the bombs placed on the power pylons north of Bangkok detonated, and power to the city was not cut. (you remember that I presume)

The only reason the government didn't fall was because Abhisit was too slow and cautious, for which he was criticized and mocked by the reds who called him a baby and sent him a crying towel. On the other hand, Thaksin was already paying lawyers and others to manipulate international opinion against the Thai government.

Knowing full well that targeted killing of nurses, medics, international journalists and people in the temple would be the most absolutely damning thing possible for the government internationally, can you tell me for certain that Abhisit or Suthep ordered these killings? Can you say that?

Edited June 10, 2014 by rabas

[Thai at Heart]

Well I am sorry, but why on earth is a civilian politician leading the command of soldiers in this context?

What the hell does he know about crowd control or the lethality of shooting shotguns anywhere at anyone. Absolutely ludicrous situation .

He deserves the book thrown at him for issuing idiotic lethal orders.

Don't civilian leaders sign off on most orders like this one?

That's not what it says.

It says he gave the order. It doesn't say he signed off, or approved. The suggestion was that he was in control and that the army was subordinate.

Very important difference. The rules of engagement were clear. Did his order break them?

[gemini81]

I'm afraid once Suthep gave the orders to shoot live rounds the damage was done but at least he's admitted his guilt which is more than you can say for the man who gave the orders for the men in black to open fire.

Easy to admit guilt if you know in advance that you never have to face the consequences.

Easier to avoid death, by not engaging soldiers in live fire zones, as posted, warned and asked to evacuate. Who ordered it doesn't matter, as they had put up with this ludicrous behaviour for months; only here would such things be tolerated for so long.

It rests with the army. They tried shields, rubber bullets, everything. This was a last resort. For those retarded enough to not up and leave, they deserved what they got. (at least they got paid, and their families hit the jackpot, right?)

[whybother]

Well I am sorry, but why on earth is a civilian politician leading the command of soldiers in this context?

What the hell does he know about crowd control or the lethality of shooting shotguns anywhere at anyone. Absolutely ludicrous situation .

He deserves the book thrown at him for issuing idiotic lethal orders.

Don't civilian leaders sign off on most orders like this one?

That's not what it says.

It says he gave the order. It doesn't say he signed off, or approved. The suggestion was that he was in control and that the army was subordinate.

Very important difference. The rules of engagement were clear. Did his order break them?

Was his order the ROE, and the army broke them?

[Tatsujin]

Well I am sorry, but why on earth is a civilian politician leading the command of soldiers in this context?

What the hell does he know about crowd control or the lethality of shooting shotguns anywhere at anyone. Absolutely ludicrous situation .

He deserves the book thrown at him for issuing idiotic lethal orders.

Don't civilian leaders sign off on most orders like this one?

That's not what it says.

It says he gave the order. It doesn't say he signed off, or approved. The suggestion was that he was in control and that the army was subordinate.

Very important difference. The rules of engagement were clear. Did his order break them?

Was his order the ROE, and the army broke them?

May 14, 2010:

One of many attacks on the Army by those oh so peaceful red terrorists.

[Basil B]

Again we are picking at the finer detail of a statement that has been translated from Thai to English...

It seems a permission allowing the army to use shoot guns to scare and wound was given, (would be interesting to know whether it was Suthep suggested or the army requested), many of the fatal shooting were in self defence by the army when they came under gun and grenade attack, I think we will find no order of shoot to kill was ever given by the then government of the day, more probably the army used long standing "rules of engagement".

This trial is about the DSI misuse of power in framing Suthep and Abhisit.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Basil B

[Basil B]

We must remember these cowardly "men in black" were using unarmed protesters or just people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time as cover and unfortunately they were the ones who got killed, if the protesters had dispersed as ordered by the army there would have been less casualties.

Maybe the protest leaders should be on trial not Abhisit or Suthep.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as a reply.

[northernjohn]

Why is this fascist still running free and not in jail yet? And the army seems to protect him because they are at his side.

because he and the army unlike quite a few posters on Thai Visa want what is best for Thailand. Not only want it but have taken action towards that end.

What have you done besides criticize them for it?

[northernjohn]

Well I am sorry, but why on earth is a civilian politician leading the command of soldiers in this context?

What the hell does he know about crowd control or the lethality of shooting shotguns anywhere at anyone. Absolutely ludicrous situation .

He deserves the book thrown at him for issuing idiotic lethal orders.

Don't civilian leaders sign off on most orders like this one?

That's not what it says.

It says he gave the order. It doesn't say he signed off, or approved. The suggestion was that he was in control and that the army was subordinate.

Very important difference. The rules of engagement were clear. Did his order break them?

Was his order the ROE, and the army broke them?

Your wasting your time. Some people just won't be happy until Thaksin is whitewashed and dictator in Thailand. In other words they are going to die unhappy. Thailand now has a government bent on bringing honesty and justice back in to the country. They will never accomplish it as it is a part of every country but when they do turn it back to the electorate it will be a lot more honest.

Legal and justice are not the same. I am sure some of the means they used to drain the treasury were legal but had no justice included in them.

[Robby nz]

We must remember these cowardly "men in black" were using unarmed protesters or just people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time as cover and unfortunately they were the ones who got killed, if the protesters had dispersed as ordered by the army there would have been less casualties.

Maybe the protest leaders should be on trial not Abhisit or Suthep.

They will be.

They are all charged, most with terrorism, a capitol offence, and out on bail, its only a matter of time before they have to face up to the courts.

They have given the world plenty of evidence against them with all their hate speeches from the stage urging violence and burning, the videos and photos of their armed element and of course all the phone-ins from the instigator and funder.

Who was it that urged all their followers to bring a bottle, he had a million liters of petrol, we will turn BKK into a sea of flame and the famous words :

"I will take responsibility" then after they had been rounded up and charged saying "I was only joking" and he was rewarded for it with a cabinet post.

A Man ? No a gutless coward like the rest of the "We will fight to the last drop of blood" so called leaders, someone elses blood of course.

When it came down to it and their human shields were taken away they almost dislocated their shoulders getting their hands in the air, the ones that didn't run away that is.

Unfortunately the 'someone elses blood's' was spilt because of their actions and their day will come when they have to answer for those actions then they will need the millions they were paid to pay lawyers for their hopeless defense.

We see Suthep who has always stood up for himself and never run from anything in his life standing up and saying "I was the one to give the army orders"

Lets wait and see how that compares with the red leaders when their day in court comes.

Anyone believe they will stand up and say "Yes we will take responsibility" ?

When that day comes we will see who are the men and who are the sniveling piles of dog dung.

And once again, this topic is about Tarit being on trial not Suthep.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Robby nz

[ikke]

We must remember these cowardly "men in black" were using unarmed protesters or just people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time as cover and unfortunately they were the ones who got killed, if the protesters had dispersed as ordered by the army there would have been less casualties.

Maybe the protest leaders should be on trial not Abhisit or Suthep.

if the armed "men in Black" would have been reds, There would be no Suthep anymore.....

[millwall_fan]

Can anyone help with the choreography of this?

Suthep has been indicted for murder and insurrection and yet he is in court for a case he has filed against DSI former director-general Tarit Pengdit and three other DSI senior officials for malfeasance and power abuse for daring to bring murder and attempted murder charges against him and Abhisit.

Surely he should be answering the charges brought by the DSI first?

[rubl]

We must remember these cowardly "men in black" were using unarmed protesters or just people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time as cover and unfortunately they were the ones who got killed, if the protesters had dispersed as ordered by the army there would have been less casualties.

Maybe the protest leaders should be on trial not Abhisit or Suthep.

if the armed "men in Black" would have been reds, There would be no Suthep anymore.....

That's close to defaming those MiB who came to the rescue of the UDD supporters

[seajae]

When I went through the draft we were taught different ROEs for 1) war situations and 2) peace-time for guard duty. In the 2nd scenario we had to go through several steps before commencing shoot-to-kill.

Went through the civillian one many years ago when were going to be used to break the wharfies, was very interesting learning to shoot at civillians, much different to armed people. From memory it was two warnings then announcing that you are firing now.

[whybother]

Can anyone help with the choreography of this?

Suthep has been indicted for murder and insurrection and yet he is in court for a case he has filed against DSI former director-general Tarit Pengdit and three other DSI senior officials for malfeasance and power abuse for daring to bring murder and attempted murder charges against him and Abhisit.

Surely he should be answering the charges brought by the DSI first?

Not necessarily. Why have the court case for the murder charges if you can prove that the charges couldn't or shouldn't have been brought against you in the first place?

[seajae]

A question to some of our Vets...to clarify what the keyboard warriors from both sides are arguing about: If you were deployed in your capital city, had permision and/or orders to use live rounds and were being shot at, would you retaliate or defect immediately? Only a real soldier could understand what goes on in another soldiers mind...that's why I'm asking. Most here don't have a cluem

when you sign up you take an oath to serve your country, if in the case of the reds they start fire fights with you then you have to retaliate and try to protect/defend yourself and the civilians in the area but you dont just start firing willy nilly, there is a correct way to retaliate but I doubt any of the lotto number soldiers knew it. They would have lacked the training to be effective, they would not have known how to shoot controlled fire and would have simply sprayed rounds everywhere while running to hide, hence the 7k rounds. I dont know about the thai conscripts but I had no hesitation in doing what I was trained to do.

[fab4]

Can anyone help with the choreography of this?

Suthep has been indicted for murder and insurrection and yet he is in court for a case he has filed against DSI former director-general Tarit Pengdit and three other DSI senior officials for malfeasance and power abuse for daring to bring murder and attempted murder charges against him and Abhisit.

Surely he should be answering the charges brought by the DSI first?

Not necessarily. Why have the court case for the murder charges if you can prove that the charges couldn't or shouldn't have been brought against you in the first place?

Great idea. So any Thai citizen with a bit of money who has been accused of murder can stave off the murder charges by

1) not turning up to hear the charges in the first place (you can use the excuse that you're too busy protesting about a caretaker government - the courts fall for it every time)

and

2) counter suing the police in the hope that you can prove that the charges shouldn't have been brought against you in the first place.

Hang on, that only works for some people doesn't it. Sounds like a job for judicial reform.