Would Thailand be better off if it was colonized by a Western power?

[In Search of Space]

Well if history is any example, Great Britain was colonized by the Romans in the First Century, and then again partially colonized by Denmark in the Tenth Century and Great Britain is still uncivilized.

Don't forget the Saxons in the 6th century - that gave us the English language

[carken]

Thailand needs to work out their own problems in their own way. The West has enough of it's own problems to deal with. Everyday in America I watch my own country going down the toilet because of incompetent, traitorous leaders and a bloated, corrupt and useless government. We are in no position to tell a country like Thailand what to do or how to do it. While they have no idea what a democracy is, it's up to them to figure it out and decide if that's what they want.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Hey Bill .... you from Arizona? ..... I'm from Phoenix, been here 8 years

[CharlesHH]

I read lots of what Westerners say about Thailand, and about 80% are a combination of dumb and wrong, but this idea ranks higher on that list.

-everything to like about Thailand would be lost.

-colonizers never colonize to IMPROVE that area but to USE it until it is used up or lost to another colonizer.

-I have tried and can think of nothing the West has better that Asia.

I got tired of refuting this deeply ignorant cultural imperialism. If the typist of it really believes his list are positives, I really hope he never lives in Thailand.

[tw25rw]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

India has had a very long time to go their OWN way , cannot blame the UK for the way they went.............

65 years is a very long time?

They say a week is a long time in politics, and India has had a much longer time than that to fix up their mess. And you can't blame Britain for most of what's wrong there - corruption, caste system, high levels of poverty, high birthrate etc.

As for Thailand, who knows what might have happened? They might have fallen to communism like their eastern neighbours.

[ggt]

If you think there is chaos in this country now...just imagine a country where the violence of South Thailand is widespread over the entire country...as the Thai patriots...try to remove the foreign devils from their land...

[sirchai]

Only if they all drink Becks.

[332]

#100?

[claffey]

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like laos, cambodia, burma and vietnam??

I would say Malaysia and Singapore did benefit in some way, because of the British there is a high level of English proficiency there and there is also respect for the constitution and the rule of law to some extent.

Do you think the people and the country as a whole would be better off if they had gone through 50-100 years of Western colonization?

I don't think it would of made things worse!

Lack of a reasonable education is holding Thailand back.

A quality education is the privileged of the empowered elite.The masses do not have access to a decent standard of education, and are socially prevented from benefiting from any meaningful advancement. When will an educated population (an informed electorate), be in the best interests of the powers that be ? Perhaps when the centrally controlled system finds itself falling behind Burma or Vietnam.

'The masses do no have access to a decent standard of education'....just like in the UK!! Colonization has never been a good thing. The subjugation of 'inferior races' is disgusting. To even ask the question that the OP has asked smacks of arrogance and intolerance. Another product of a western education system that assumes westerners are modern and 'Orientals' inferior...

[claffey]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

India has had a very long time to go their OWN way , cannot blame the UK for the way they went.............

Yes, unlike France who just pulled out, Britain went through 5 years of consultation with Indian leaders (including the first Pakistani and first Indian premieres). It was the death of Ghandi that caused the split to be inevitable - it was all decided and handed over as a working system. Then just after leaving, Pakistan invaded West Pakistan for ethnic cleansing. Britain left behind a system of government, law, world's biggest army (at the time), education, etc - Indians had always been used at all; levels during the occupation so it was not a difficult transition. Religion and greed is what caused the sub-continent its woes - and still does - not being an ex-empire. I worked with Indians for years, and have many Indian friends - all educated - none blame the UK for India's woes, some even say it had been the best time for India.

Other ex-empress countries not doing so bad? Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, most of France, Eire, Jamaica, many islands. Over all a pretty good record - even Burma was via negotiations and was left with a working democratic government (and was one of the few countries that did not join the Commonwealth!) - 1948 independence, 1962 the Junta (Ne Win) get power via a coup. Burma will always have problems as it has very separate and distinct cultures and religious areas - civil wars have been abound since independence. Really it needs to be split into independent states for peace to happen.

'Eire'...I think you mean the Republic of Ireland. When The British withdrew in 1922 the country was ,economically, the poorest in Europe and a civil war followed. Not really the best condition to leave a country in I think!! Australia and New Zealand were completely colonized. Their indigenous peoples and their cultures almost completely DESTROYED..USA descended into chaos in the mid 19th century and civil war due to the British system of slavery that was brought to America in 17th century... France was partially controlled by Britain on numerous occasions but cannot be referred to as a colony..Jamaica, especially the capital Kingston has high levels of gun related crime and poverty..Shall I go on????

[332]

Another product of a western education system that assumes westerners are modern and 'Orientals' inferior...

We aren't modern?

Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, I'd hardly call their people inferior.

You seem a bit wrong mate.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Well if history is any example, Great Britain was colonized by the Romans in the First Century, and then again partially colonized by Denmark in the Tenth Century and Great Britain is still uncivilized.

But we did have central heating in the UK a thousand years back thanks to the Romans.... ....................

You forgot the French, they colonised England in 1066.

[332]

Australia and New Zealand were completely colonized. Their indigenous peoples and their cultures almost completely DESTROYED.

Didgeridoo playing and spear throwing? Not even the wheel invented/developed?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I read lots of what Westerners say about Thailand, and about 80% are a combination of dumb and wrong, but this idea ranks higher on that list.

-everything to like about Thailand would be lost.

-colonizers never colonize to IMPROVE that area but to USE it until it is used up or lost to another colonizer.

-I have tried and can think of nothing the West has better that Asia.

The roads, aqueducts, sanitation, law and order, etc.

[harryfrompattaya]

The revolution needs to come from the educators.

You mean like Cambodia

[stephen tracy]

There really is no shortage of retards or on Thai Visa. It's the perfect gauge to assess the general level of intelligence [or lack of it] of your average Western expat...pathetic.

[ravip]

like laos, cambodia, burma and vietnam??

I would say Malaysia and Singapore did benefit in some way, because of the British there is a high level of English proficiency there and there is also respect for the constitution and the rule of law to some extent.

england was in dozens of other countries . what happened to them?

Well , what happened was, as soon as we gave them back the natives screwed it all up.

Was it screwed up when you encroached?

[makkam]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

Zimbabwe ( Rhodesia ) is another great example.

Uganda another success story.

In fact the vast majority of colonial Africa is a basket case

Take out New Zealand, Oz and Canada and the rest was an utter failure, but still the colonel blimps come out with this piffle

[sustento]

Well if history is any example, Great Britain was colonized by the Romans in the First Century, and then again partially colonized by Denmark in the Tenth Century and Great Britain is still uncivilized.

But we did have central heating in the UK a thousand years back thanks to the Romans.... ....................

You forgot the French, they colonised England in 1066.

It was actually the Normans who colonised England in 1066. The Normans were descended from the Viking conquerors of Normandy.

George Clemenceau, the French Prime Minister, once said that England was ' a French colony that went in the wrong direction'

[sustento]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

Zimbabwe ( Rhodesia ) is another great example.

When the British left Zimbabwe it was the 'breadbasket of Africa'. If you want to blame anyone for Zimbabwe's present state you need to look in Mister Mugabe's direction.

[wolf5370]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

India has had a very long time to go their OWN way , cannot blame the UK for the way they went.............

Yes, unlike France who just pulled out, Britain went through 5 years of consultation with Indian leaders (including the first Pakistani and first Indian premieres). It was the death of Ghandi that caused the split to be inevitable - it was all decided and handed over as a working system. Then just after leaving, Pakistan invaded West Pakistan for ethnic cleansing. Britain left behind a system of government, law, world's biggest army (at the time), education, etc - Indians had always been used at all; levels during the occupation so it was not a difficult transition. Religion and greed is what caused the sub-continent its woes - and still does - not being an ex-empire. I worked with Indians for years, and have many Indian friends - all educated - none blame the UK for India's woes, some even say it had been the best time for India.

Other ex-empress countries not doing so bad? Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, most of France, Eire, Jamaica, many islands. Over all a pretty good record - even Burma was via negotiations and was left with a working democratic government (and was one of the few countries that did not join the Commonwealth!) - 1948 independence, 1962 the Junta (Ne Win) get power via a coup. Burma will always have problems as it has very separate and distinct cultures and religious areas - civil wars have been abound since independence. Really it needs to be split into independent states for peace to happen.

'Eire'...I think you mean the Republic of Ireland. When The British withdrew in 1922 the country was ,economically, the poorest in Europe and a civil war followed. Not really the best condition to leave a country in I think!! Australia and New Zealand were completely colonized. Their indigenous peoples and their cultures almost completely DESTROYED..USA descended into chaos in the mid 19th century and civil war due to the British system of slavery that was brought to America in 17th century... France was partially controlled by Britain on numerous occasions but cannot be referred to as a colony..Jamaica, especially the capital Kingston has high levels of gun related crime and poverty..Shall I go on????

Yes I mean Republic or Ireland (some Irish prefer Eire, some Ireland, some Republic of - hard to please everyone - needless to say Eire has been on the coins since 1922 up until Euro and beyond). I doubt it was the poorest in Europe - I think Germany would have had that honour and ex-German states...but amazing how that changed both up until the Wall Street Crash (that saw France seizing the German industries under the Treaty of Versailles)...and then again since. With RoI you have to remember the UK did not pull out, but was as a result of the Irish War of Independence (post Easter Rising) - the Civil War that occurred after due to the Anglo-Irish Treaty (which put Ireland on the same footing as Australia and Canada wrt being a Commonwealth country - Autonomous British Dominion was the term used then - with self rule, army, police etc - but keeping the crown. One has to remember this was the peace agreement reached that ended the war of independence (without it Ireland probably would not have become independent at all). It was the usual country arguments between the Provo Gov supporters (Free States) and the IRA - it is still there in the form of the main political parties even now, 90 odd years later! Can't really blame Britain for any of that.

Every colonized country has their culture almost completely destroyed - its what colonization is. Why is that relevant to how the country is today, given that was the challenge (ex-colonised states fare today).

Britain abolished slave trading in the British Empire in 1807 Abolition of the Slave Trade Act - 1834 Slavery Abolition Act comes into effect, outlawing it throughout the Empire (Sri Lanka was not Empire until 1843, until then it was privately owned by the East India Company - the act came into effect immediately at that point). 1836 Texas makes slavery legal! 1850: In the United States, the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 requires the return of escaped slaves to their owners. 1862: United States abolishes slavery. Jefferson had tried to stop slavery back in 1806 "withdraw the citizens of the United States from all further participation in those violations of human rights … which the morality, the reputation, and the best of our country have long been eager to proscribe". Many US states had been French and Spanish Empires, they also brought slavery (and kept it long past Britain). You can hardly blame the American Civil War on the UK for introducing slavery - unless you blame Rome for introducing it to Britain!

No France was not a colony - but Normandy was a separate country for a lot of French history. Calais was a city state belonging to Britain until 1558. They were still under the control of the British Empire - which was the context not that they were colonies. Jamaica has high levels of gun and drug crime - guess where that was introduced from? Shall I go on? (Clue: It was not pre Empire nor British Influence)

[marko kok prong]

Well if history is any example, Great Britain was colonized by the Romans in the First Century, and then again partially colonized by Denmark in the Tenth Century and Great Britain is still uncivilized.

But we did have central heating in the UK a thousand years back thanks to the Romans.... ....................

You forgot the French, they colonised England in 1066.

Actually no,mate it was the Normans,descendent's of vikings that took over this part of france,where my ancestors came from.

[Gillyflower]

Never Sure.

You left out the Norman invasion 1066 and all that. You know, William the Conqueror The changes in the English language, the law etc etc.

Brain 150

I notice you didn't mention France.

Transam

I was in hospital in France for 3 1/2 months. Four-five hours of Physio per day, a large room/bathroom/balcony to myself, full board (with wine) swimming pool etc etc. As I had problems, 3 ambulances to an hospital in Toulouse, specialist treatment. Have never received a bill for it. Oh sorry, I have just been reminded that I had to pay for an elastic stocking.

As for the rest the Brits didn't do too bad a job in Australia.

On the other hand we must remember that the British invented concentration camps (in South Africa).

[masuk]

Well if history is any example, Great Britain was colonized by the Romans in the First Century, and then again partially colonized by Denmark in the Tenth Century and Great Britain is still uncivilized.

Until the French arrived?

[wolf5370]

Well if history is any example, Great Britain was colonized by the Romans in the First Century, and then again partially colonized by Denmark in the Tenth Century and Great Britain is still uncivilized.

But we did have central heating in the UK a thousand years back thanks to the Romans.... ....................

You forgot the French, they colonised England in 1066.

It was actually the Normans who colonised England in 1066. The Normans were descended from the Viking conquerors of Normandy.

George Clemenceau, the French Prime Minister, once said that England was ' a French colony that went in the wrong direction'

Yes, its amazing how many people think the Normans were French. The Normans were the biggest enemy of the French - they sat on old French land and the Franks were foiled (and lost further lands) every time they tried to remove the invaders. A great read is "1000 Years of Annoying the French" - written by a Brit historian who has lived (lives - he's still there) in France for decades - and interested by the different slants in history he heard. So he researched and wrote the book - very good.

[wolf5370]

Well if history is any example, Great Britain was colonized by the Romans in the First Century, and then again partially colonized by Denmark in the Tenth Century and Great Britain is still uncivilized.

Until the French arrived?

They didn't (other than those running for their lives in the Revolution some time later) - the Normans did - the enemy of the French!

[wolf5370]

Never Sure.

You left out the Norman invasion 1066 and all that. You know, William the Conqueror The changes in the English language, the law etc etc.

Brain 150

I notice you didn't mention France.

Transam

I was in hospital in France for 3 1/2 months. Four-five hours of Physio per day, a large room/bathroom/balcony to myself, full board (with wine) swimming pool etc etc. As I had problems, 3 ambulances to an hospital in Toulouse, specialist treatment. Have never received a bill for it. Oh sorry, I have just been reminded that I had to pay for an elastic stocking.

As for the rest the Brits didn't do too bad a job in Australia.

On the other hand we must remember that the British invented concentration camps (in South Africa).

If you are a Brit, the bills would have been sent against your E111 to the NHS. Otherwise, you are lucky!

Britain did not invent Concentration Camps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_camps#Concentration_camp

Earliest usage and origins of the term[edit]

The Polish historian Władysław Konopczyński has suggested that concentration camps originated in Poland during the Bar Confederation rebellion (1768-1772), when the Russian Empire established three concentration camps for Polish rebel captives awaiting deportation to Siberia.^[5]

The English term originated in the reconcentrados (reconcentration camps) set up by the Spanish military in Cuba during the Ten Years' War (1868–1878) and by the United States during the Philippine–American War (1899–1902).^[6]

The term "concentration camp" saw wider use during the Second Boer War (1899–1902), when the British operated such camps in South Africa for interning Boers.^[6][7] They built a total of 45 tented camps for Boer internees and 64 for black Africans. Of the 28,000 Boer men captured as prisoners of war, the British sent 25,630 overseas. The vast majority of Boers remaining in the local camps were women and children.^{[citation needed]}

Between 1904 and 1908, the Schutztruppe of the Imperial German Army operated concentration camps in German South-West Africa (now Namibia) as part of their genocide of the Herero and Namaqua peoples. The Shark Island Concentration Camp in Lüderitz was among the biggest and the one with the harshest conditions.

Concentration camps were also used against Armenians during the Armenian genocide, one example is Deir ez-Zor Camps, in which around 150,000+ died.

So that would be Russia, Spain or USA then

[AYJAYDEE]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

Zimbabwe ( Rhodesia ) is another great example.

Uganda another success story.

In fact the vast majority of colonial Africa is a basket case

Take out New Zealand, Oz and Canada and the rest was an utter failure, but still the colonel blimps come out with this piffle

new zealand oz and canada were successes only because the colonized inhabitants were virtually eliminated by war and disease

[wolf5370]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

Zimbabwe ( Rhodesia ) is another great example.

Uganda another success story.

In fact the vast majority of colonial Africa is a basket case

Take out New Zealand, Oz and Canada and the rest was an utter failure, but still the colonel blimps come out with this piffle

Maybe because the Colonel Blimps has some idea of history??? How can an imperial power be responsible for bad governments years after their withdrawal? If the country is in good order at the time they leave, they cannot be responsible for policing it decades after.

Zimbabwe was a very wealthy country when England left - it was a member of the Commonwealth and a democracy. It was a tin pot dictator many years later that made it what it is today - and the world watched on (including whatever country you are from!).

Much of Africa was not controlled by the British Empire - many of the "fruit baskets" are ex-French states (just like they were in Asia) - the French just pull out and run and the void is always chaotic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonisation_of_Africa#mediaviewer/File:Colonial_Africa_1913_map.svg

[cchina184]

oh, most certainly, colonization is all the rage these days. i'm sure the thai will welcome their new lords and masters with open arms and huge smiles.

[Gillyflower]

Ayjaydee

Gosh. I have learnt something that they didn't teach me in my schools in Australia. I know about the Tasmanian scandal. Do tell me about the war and diseases in Oz.