Let us understand Cultural Imperialism

[CharlesHH]

Reading and listening to foreigners talk and complain about Thailand (while enjoying living here) I see too often examples of CULTURAL IMPERIALISM. That is an ugly and embarrassing position.

Cultural imperialism means that one person believes himself and his world view to be superior to a specific people or nation. In Thailand, I see it come down to a Westerner, often a Brit, offering chest thumping advice to get "the little brown people" to act, believe, and have national policies just like the Westerner's.

A favorite true story is of a newly arrived American who, upon seeing 4 on a motorbike, said he will, as a retired law enforcement man, go volunteer to the Thailand police to get them to understand why that is bad and give advice how to stop the practice. After old hands stop laughing at this guy, we need to help each other to avoid making kneejerk judgments about Thailand based on ideas that have no practical application here. Ideas borrowed from the West are often just silly applied here.

So, please examine your beliefs and speech for cultural imperialism and avoid it.

[benalibina]

Is your avatar related to the topic ?

[CharlieH]

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

Edited June 13, 2014 by CharlieH

[ATF]

The imposition of Western Laws is different from Cultural Imperialism. CI is the imposition of different customs and traditions and values such as Christian values and holidays. Valentine's Day, Gift giving on birthdays etc.

Edited June 13, 2014 by ATF

[Globalist]

In principle one can agree with the OP.

However, the OP could also be interpreted as a cultural imperialist himself (!).

That being four on a motorbike is highly unsafe is not an "idea borrowed from the west". I am certain that all adult sane people; including those of Thai, Inuit or Chilean origins, all find this practice to be highly unsafe.

Nevertheless, they take this increased risk due to practical necessity only, typically they cannot afford any other efficient transport solution.

I am sure that the OP is aware of this and had no imperialist intentions, I just wanted to point out that it may be important to be precise or it may backfire.

[Sandman77]

In western country's

We learned from child hood, this is right and this is wrong, good or not good, if someone not reflect there opinion western people quickly aggressive!

The best example is a new worker

That must be teaches about work

And what he have to do and how

If he do something another style or in the eye of the boss wrong he not let him work finish, interrupt him told him you are wrong, he interrupt the worker in his work!

In Asia people can work there style

And no one will be here with the pointed finger to tell you what you are do is wrong!

Be patient look the worker make his work finish, without interrupting, by a person who mean knows everything better !

It's a part of our educational background

[Somsrisonphimai]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

Edited June 13, 2014 by Somsrisonphimai

[thailiketoo]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

It is rather like wearing clothes in a nudist colony.

[Somsrisonphimai]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

It is rather like wearing clothes in a nudist colony.

What are you saying? So Thailand should not change?

[Thai at Heart]

So what the OP is saying is that if the world or particularly the west invents or discovers something like a motorcycle, they shouldnt explain how to use it safely.

So if Thailand buys a nuclear reactor from the west, insisting that they use it safely equates to imperialism. Hmmmm

Edited June 13, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[CharlesHH]

Yes in several ways. The photo brings up the injection of the modern into the ancient, the idea that Buddha has us in his hands, that the Western invention airplane is tiny in significance to Buddhism, that photos are fun "trump loy" Anglicized from French term, and that the photo will cause people to think and even ask questions.

Is your avatar related to the topic ?

[CharlesHH]

Not so easy, but so necessary to UNlearn, like you say. Actually, many posts I read indicate Westerners can not and do not want to unlearn but to make Thailand over into their crappy place they left. I say Why do that?

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

[CharlieH]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

It is rather like wearing clothes in a nudist colony.

What are you saying? So Thailand should not change?

If you start to paint the white stripes of a zebra black, how long before it becomes a just another black horse and the zebra is lost.

Just a thought.

Edited June 13, 2014 by CharlieH

[David48]

Dear Prince Charles, I do understand what you are trying to say.

However consider this.

Thai Language is 'tonal ' ... the tone changes the message or the words substantially.

The 'tone' of your OP is that of superiority ... of one who has reached enlightenment.

And we ... well we appear as just 'Grasshoppers' ... the ignorant masses.

Lower the tone. Talk with us, not to us.

Your words will have more meaning then.

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

Edited June 13, 2014 by David48

[skyaslimit]

In western country's

We learned from child hood, this is right and this is wrong, good or not good, if someone not reflect there opinion western people quickly aggressive!

The best example is a new worker

That must be teaches about work

And what he have to do and how

If he do something another style or in the eye of the boss wrong he not let him work finish, interrupt him told him you are wrong, he interrupt the worker in his work!

In Asia people can work there style

And no one will be here with the pointed finger to tell you what you are do is wrong!

Be patient look the worker make his work finish, without interrupting, by a person who mean knows everything better !

It's a part of our educational background

you are not kidding? are you?

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[CharlesHH]

Actually I am kinda saying that if the West supplies a motorcycle to Thailand, and a Thai uses it to pull a plow, the Westerner should keep his mouth shut if all he can do is condemn this usage of the bike just because HE just KNOWS how a bike should be used. Not everything in Thailand is "up to you."

So what the OP is saying is that if the world or particularly the west invents or discovers something like a motorcycle, they shouldnt explain how to use it safely.

So if Thailand buys a nuclear reactor from the west, insisting that they use it safely equates to imperialism. Hmmmm

[CharlesHH]

I will try to do as you say but it is a real challenge for a bodhisattva to do that and something he needs to be constantly aware of and correct. P.S., if you feel "talked down to," then bring yourself up.

Dear Prince Charles, I do understand what you are trying to say.

However consider this.

Thai Language is 'tonal ' ... the tone changes the message or the words substantially.

The 'tone' of your OP is that of superiority ... of one who has reached enlightenment.

And we ... well we appear as just 'Grasshoppers' ... the ignorant masses.

Lower the tone. Talk with us, not to us.

Your words will have more meaning then.

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

[CharlesHH]

Som... has provided a perfect example of cultural imperialism.

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

[CharlesHH]

the IMPOSITION of Western laws is the maximum of cultural imperialism. Brits were masters of that.

The imposition of Western Laws is different from Cultural Imperialism. CI is the imposition of different customs and traditions and values such as Christian values and holidays. Valentine's Day, Gift giving on birthdays etc.

[thailiketoo]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

It is rather like wearing clothes in a nudist colony.

What are you saying? So Thailand should not change?

I am saying Thailand is for Thai people. Change is for Thai people to decide. Nudity may make me uncomfortable but I'm not a nudist. I find it offensive that you think you know what is best for Thai people.

[landtrout]

Yes in several ways. The photo brings up the injection of the modern into the ancient, the idea that Buddha has us in his hands, that the Western invention airplane is tiny in significance to Buddhism, that photos are fun "trump loy" Anglicized from French term, and that the photo will cause people to think and even ask questions.

Is your avatar related to the topic ?

"Trump loy"?

Oy vey!

[Thai at Heart]

Actually I am kinda saying that if the West supplies a motorcycle to Thailand, and a Thai uses it to pull a plow, the Westerner should keep his mouth shut if all he can do is condemn this usage of the bike just because HE just KNOWS how a bike should be used. Not everything in Thailand is "up to you."

So what the OP is saying is that if the world or particularly the west invents or discovers something like a motorcycle, they shouldnt explain how to use it safely.

So if Thailand buys a nuclear reactor from the west, insisting that they use it safely equates to imperialism. Hmmmm

Well, what u are asking is for the westerner to park his brain at immigration. Now, on the OP about motorcycle accidents. I wouldn't go to the police to volunteer, but I sure as hell bought a lot of helmets in my time and insisted my kids never get on them.

Is that imperialism or plain good common sense?

[David48]

Dear Prince Charles, I do understand what you are trying to say.

However consider this.

Thai Language is 'tonal ' ... the tone changes the message or the words substantially.

The 'tone' of your OP is that of superiority ... of one who has reached enlightenment.

And we ... well we appear as just 'Grasshoppers' ... the ignorant masses.

Lower the tone. Talk with us, not to us.

Your words will have more meaning then.

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

I will try to do as you say but it is a real challenge for a bodhisattva to do that and something he needs to be constantly aware of and correct. P.S., if you feel "talked down to," then bring yourself up.

Great ... one less member I have to take seriously now.

Bugger ... I thought he was onto something.

He's not onto something ... he's into himself ...

Edited for chronological accurateness

Edited June 13, 2014 by David48

[HeavyDrinker]

and a Thai uses it to pull a plow, the Westerner should keep his mouth shut if all he can do is condemn this usage of the bike just because HE just KNOWS how a bike should be used.

But what if the Motorbike/Plough combination works and saves the Thai hours of backbreaking labour?

Are you going to shove your nose in then? because the Thai would probably tell you to Quack orf (missie).

Edited June 13, 2014 by HeavyDrinker

[CharlesHH]

"Trompe-l'œil (French for deceive the eye, pronounced [tʁɔ̃p lœj]), which can also be spelled without the hyphen and ligature in English as trompe l'oeil,^[1] is an art technique that uses realistic imagery to create the optical illusion that depicted objects exist in three dimensions. Forced perspective is a comparable illusion in architecture."

Yes in several ways. The photo brings up the injection of the modern into the ancient, the idea that Buddha has us in his hands, that the Western invention airplane is tiny in significance to Buddhism, that photos are fun "trump loy" Anglicized from French term, and that the photo will cause people to think and even ask questions.

Is your avatar related to the topic ?

"Trump loy"?

Oy vey!

[Somsrisonphimai]

Som... has provided a perfect example of cultural imperialism.

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

Really, so they should stuck in the past? They should not do things that improve their life? Please explain how Thailand would be for the past 20 years if they did not follow the western culture? Do you think you and others would have a comfortable life in Thailand if Thailand has not adopted the western cultures?

So, one's opinion become a judgmental in your mind? Who is passing a judgment now?

[HeavyDrinker]

Reading and listening to foreigners talk and complain about Thailand (while enjoying living here) I see too often examples of CULTURAL IMPERIALISM. That is an ugly and embarrassing position.

Cultural imperialism means that one person believes himself and his world view to be superior to a specific people or nation. In Thailand, I see it come down to a Westerner, often a Brit, offering chest thumping advice to get "the little brown people" to act, believe, and have national policies just like the Westerner's.

A favorite true story is of a newly arrived American who, upon seeing 4 on a motorbike, said he will, as a retired law enforcement man, go volunteer to the Thailand police to get them to understand why that is bad and give advice how to stop the practice. After old hands stop laughing at this guy, we need to help each other to avoid making kneejerk judgments about Thailand based on ideas that have no practical application here. Ideas borrowed from the West are often just silly applied here.

So, please examine your beliefs and speech for cultural imperialism and avoid it.

You come across like some relatively new arrival, who has moved 'Tee Rak' back to her village, been to the local temple a few times, and is now entrenched with full understanding of the 'Mysteries of the Orient' (if I may use such an Orientalist term Mr Said.....) and now wish to spread your knowledge through Thai Visa to the unwashed masses....

This could be fun...

[Somsrisonphimai]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

It is rather like wearing clothes in a nudist colony.

What are you saying? So Thailand should not change?

I am saying Thailand is for Thai people. Change is for Thai people to decide. Nudity may make me uncomfortable but I'm not a nudist. I find it offensive that you think you know what is best for Thai people.

Ok, if no one tells them or lets them see the different, how would they know? I guess the fancy words would be educated them and have them decide, right? So if you tell them how good the western cultures are, would that consider culture imperialism?

[thailiketoo]

Well, what u are asking is for the westerner to park his brain at immigration.

What a great idea! I think you are on to something.

[Thai at Heart]

Well, what u are asking is for the westerner to park his brain at immigration.

What a great idea! I think you are on to something.

But what to do when Thais appear to permenanatly misplace theirs.

This is a little bit like the discussions on hear about electrical wiring. There are rules and regs the world over about how to install this stuff safely, and often Thais don't do it.

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Are people seriously saying its imperialism to advise or even insist on the highest safety because the option is to live or die? To know their is a better way and be told to shut up denies a basic human trait. We are in a country where the science minister pushes water in an open river ladies and gentlemen.

I can't make up for the apparent lack of knowledge here sometimes and likewise, I have enjoyed learning some of the Thai tricks of the trade.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

Edited June 13, 2014 by Thai at Heart