The irony of Prayuth's mission

[55Jay]

Wait and see. IF all goes well that Victory Monument in Bangkok may have a raison d'etre yet.

Doesn't answer the question I asked of Living in a cartoon, but thanks just the same.

I guess it was a bit oblique.

Put it this way. If the general manages to be the hero Thailand has been looking for and achieves the impossible dream of transforming the country from the top down then it will be a victory for the Thai people far more worthy of the one that monument currently celebrates.

There's a long way to go yet but at least the course is set fair.

I understood your first post and the reference to the monument, but I don't think that's what Living in a Cartoon had in mind, which is why I was asking him/her.

[djjamie]

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Nothing to do with accepting any results. One need only look at the amnesty bill and the 2007 constitution to see the PTP do not respect the majority when it does not suit them. Again though this is not about accepting a majority. I accept the result. They won the election. Full stop.

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP.

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Guess what? Elections do not allow you to abuse democracy post ballot box.

I accept all election results. It is the manipulation of the 7% (or 14%) is what the General is trying to alleviate for the betterment of the remaining 80% of the Thai population.

​May reconciliation be with you. Leave the bitter shadows my friend and embrace a change for the better.

[northernjohn]

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

[jope]

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Your happiness is heartwarming. But thanks for confirming that there was a "similar situation suggested". Alright, so no "proposal" but only a suggestion. It is still my personal favorite for the "reforming" of the country.

[jope]

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Nothing to do with accepting any results. One need only look at the amnesty bill and the 2007 constitution to see the PTP do not respect the majority when it does not suit them. Again though this is not about accepting a majority. I accept the result. They won the election. Full stop.

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP.

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Guess what? Elections do not allow you to abuse democracy post ballot box.

I accept all election results. It is the manipulation of the 7% (or 14%) is what the General is trying to alleviate for the betterment of the remaining 80% of the Thai population.

​May reconciliation be with you. Leave the bitter shadows my friend and embrace a change for the better.

As you honored me with an answer I will do the same (no irony!).

I would not disagree, if someone told me that the system is flawed and that reform is needed (IMHO not by the military, though). I would not disagree, if someone told me that the last government was flawed. But I definitely disagree, if someone says that promising voters certain policies they will benefit from is manipulating the voters and should be banned. With that argument you could make every single election null and void by simply stating that the voters have been manipulated. If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

[djjamie]

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Ahhh, so we don't have to lockstep to PTP rhetoric anymore?

So when we say the rice scheme was an abysmal failure we won't be silenced, sacked and investigated like Supa was?

Silencing the opposition is a mark of a dictator, a tyrant, not of a leader when the PTP do it.

Ohhh my. I hear the red apologists minds ticking over and keyboards pounding away.

The fundamental difference is the PTP silence the opposition so they can abuse democracy now. The Junta silence the opposition so they can restore democracy later.

[djjamie]

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Nothing to do with accepting any results. One need only look at the amnesty bill and the 2007 constitution to see the PTP do not respect the majority when it does not suit them. Again though this is not about accepting a majority. I accept the result. They won the election. Full stop.

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP.

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Guess what? Elections do not allow you to abuse democracy post ballot box.

I accept all election results. It is the manipulation of the 7% (or 14%) is what the General is trying to alleviate for the betterment of the remaining 80% of the Thai population.

​May reconciliation be with you. Leave the bitter shadows my friend and embrace a change for the better.

As you honored me with an answer I will do the same (no irony!).

I would not disagree, if someone told me that the system is flawed and that reform is needed (IMHO not by the military, though). I would not disagree, if someone told me that the last government was flawed. But I definitely disagree, if someone says that promising voters certain policies they will benefit from is manipulating the voters and should be banned. With that argument you could make every single election null and void by simply stating that the voters have been manipulated. If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

Edited June 14, 2014 by djjamie

[jope]

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

This might come as a surprise, but politicians can promise whatever they want (it's not a crime, you know). But I know exactly what will happen, if people like you (or like the "Democrats" in Thailand for that matter) would get their way: simply ALL elections would be declared void because the people who voted for the "wrong" party did so because they were manipulated (the proof lies in the fact itself: if they had not been "manipulated" they would have voted for the "right" party). That was the main point of my post.

And for reasons unknown to me you decided to not take notice of the other things I said, namely that I regard the system and the last government as flawed, too. But please, continue rampaging, I nevertheless agree (at least partially).

By the way: a politician who promises literally everything does not serve his purpose, as people very well know that that is a lie and simply not possible. And offering better policies does not mean that parties simply increase subsidies. There are a few more fields of politics where parties can convince people to change shirts (in Thailand a great first step would be to stop insulting people as scum, people might actually consider listening). But what am I thinking, they are stupid and uneducated and must be protected by enlightened people like you, right? Why don't you post your nauseating red-buffaloes-picture again. It will make a happy ending to this thread and will be regarded as a great last word of a noble minded character.

[Fat Haggis]

Jamie, what's the difference between this and UK Politicians stating things like "we will reduce income tax by 1p in the pound if we get into office" ?

You want to go and have a beer with friends on a Saturday night, your wife doesn't want you to go, on the Friday you buy her chocolates and flowers, and take her out for a meal and to the movies, remarking how beautiful she is that night... isn't that manipulating and buying her approval to let you go on the lash with the lads?

Lads on the lash will offer cash incentives for their mates to do stupid things "I'll give you 5,000 baht if you drink that chile water"

There isn't a single bloke in a relationship out there who hasn't manipulated or used other "incentives" to get what they want from their partners either

Commercial business's use incentives and bonus schemes, to entice people to work for them. Isn't that just the same as vote buying/vote manipulation?

Farmers use cash incentives and bonuses like "meals/accomodation provided" over other farmers to secure manual labour.

How many people are offered pay rises and promotions to stay within an organisation when they have decided to move on to a rival company?

Vote buying is just the same thing.. it's a cash incentive to put an x on a bit of paper. Morally wrong, but it happens.

[tullynagardy]

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

Are you STILL spending hours of your life on here everyday arguing the same BS with people who now get their posts deleted if they criticise the dictator?

Jesus have you no friends or lifewhatsoever? You mentioned before you dont even live in Thailand but in Aus, have you really nothing better to do?

What possesses you to write this <deleted>?

[Hawk]

<deleted>

When the rot has set in there is no way to remove it! The nation is corrupt and therefore there is no magic that can ever fix that fact or rectify the situation.

Thais love their fairy tales but reality is a whole different world. Its all been tried before and always ended in failure and this will be just more of the same. No coup was ever successful in bringing about constructive change in the country.

The Thai nation and the Thai people are not corrupt.

There are corrupt people who are mostly those in positions of power or of the criminal type but the vast majority of the Thai people are not corrupt.

The vast majority are good honest hard working people who in the past they have put up with the corruption that their so called leaders have imposed on them for there was nothing they could do about it.

6 months back people started to come out on the streets as they had seen the damage a corrupt government was doing to the country.

Now they can see that there no longer needs to be corruption and that there is a way it can be tackled and brought under control if not eliminated.

There will, I am sure, be ways in the not to distant future that honest people can report and fight against corruption without the fear they have had in the past.

It will then be the corrupt that have to fear the honest people. As it should be.

Who was it that said "The people should not fear the government the government should fear the people"

Thai people are all corrupt, they embrace corruption as a way of life, its part of their culture.

Have you ever been to Thailand? Probably not as your reply displays a vast ignorance of Thai ways.

BS

You and the two previous posters have obviously never been outside tourist centers or big cities, if you have ever been to Thailand.

Where I live in a small town surrounded by paddy the people are not corrupt, no one tries to cheat me or do they cheat each other.

They don't steal from me or each other to the extent that bunches of bananas hanging over a road or soi are never taken, they are recognized as the property of the owner of the land, no one pulls in someone elses net to get the fish and prices are the same for everyone.

There are those in power who are known to be corrupt but they have had the backing of higher authority so the people are forced to accept their corruption but that does not make the people corrupt.

There is also some crime like the armed robbery of a late night shop recently but that is very rare and speculation is that it was someone from out of town.

With a bit of luck and the general willing that will change and the corrupt will be removed.

But then I only live here and have only been here for a bit under 10 years so what would I know.

Corruption and petty thievery of a bunch of bananas not quite the same thing is it? How corrupt is your village chief pray tell? Or do you simply turn a blind eye to the greed around you, its safer for you to do that anyway. Loud mouth villagers tend to end up prematurely dead! Edited June 15, 2014 by Hawk

[djjamie]

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

Are you STILL spending hours of your life on here everyday arguing the same BS with people who now get their posts deleted if they criticise the dictator?

Jesus have you no friends or lifewhatsoever? You mentioned before you dont even live in Thailand but in Aus, have you really nothing better to do?

What possesses you to write this <deleted>?

So you cannot rebut what I said either?

May reconciliation be with you.

[binjalin]

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

Are you STILL spending hours of your life on here everyday arguing the same BS with people who now get their posts deleted if they criticise the dictator?

Jesus have you no friends or lifewhatsoever? You mentioned before you dont even live in Thailand but in Aus, have you really nothing better to do?

What possesses you to write this <deleted>?

So you cannot rebut what I said either?

May reconciliation be with you.

oh you don't even live in Thailand? that reduces your credibility completely I just 'assumed' with all your posts that you reside here - at least then you would have some idea and, even if I don't like your arguments, I'd respect that you live here

[northernjohn]

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Your happiness is heartwarming. But thanks for confirming that there was a "similar situation suggested". Alright, so no "proposal" but only a suggestion. It is still my personal favorite for the "reforming" of the country.

It was not the Democrats it was the Yellow Shirts.

Grab another straw.

You don't mean reforming of the country you mean taker over by Academics and the Elite.

[northernjohn]

The Thai nation and the Thai people are not corrupt.

There are corrupt people who are mostly those in positions of power or of the criminal type but the vast majority of the Thai people are not corrupt.

The vast majority are good honest hard working people who in the past they have put up with the corruption that their so called leaders have imposed on them for there was nothing they could do about it.

6 months back people started to come out on the streets as they had seen the damage a corrupt government was doing to the country.

Now they can see that there no longer needs to be corruption and that there is a way it can be tackled and brought under control if not eliminated.

There will, I am sure, be ways in the not to distant future that honest people can report and fight against corruption without the fear they have had in the past.

It will then be the corrupt that have to fear the honest people. As it should be.

Who was it that said "The people should not fear the government the government should fear the people"

Thai people are all corrupt, they embrace corruption as a way of life, its part of their culture.

Have you ever been to Thailand? Probably not as your reply displays a vast ignorance of Thai ways.

Hawk, you're way out of line on this one.

To actually have the audacity to write, "Thai people are all corrupt". Where do you really, and truthfully get that from?

E.g. my wife - yes, let's go there! She's Thai, thus included in your all.

University lecturer. Owns her own home, spare condo, own car, has lots in the bank from frugal spending, wise saving, and NEVER ever been corrupt, involved in corruption, supported anything corrupt. How do you justify involving my wife in your insinuation of 'all', when she distincly, vehemently, is repulsed by corruption and rejects it, far from embracing it?

And I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has a good, honest, uncorrupt life partner, be they male or female, man or wife.

Verify, in the best way you can, how you can distinctly offer to the table here, that all Thais are corrupt and embrace corruption, please.

I am not even going to bother debating about what your wife likes or doesn't like but when the need arises they all make a deal.

Please explain. Deals about or on what? They all do? Could you please define 'they all'? I'm asking nicely - for now.

Personally I'm not interested if you ask nicely or not! Anyway as I said above, I am not going to debate what I said, if you find my statements difficult to understand then back to school you should go.

Trying not to understand the obvious is a common problem for many people, especially in Thailand.

Your statements are not difficult to understand whatsoever. You assert ALL THAIS ARE CORRUPT. That's simple to see.

It is clear that you carry about with you a great deal of baggage, almost like De Nero in The Mission. When you see fit to release it, then maybe you'll see new light, and discover that not all Thais are corrupt, as you initially asserted, and maintain is obvious; the latter being your own viewpoint, of course.

Personally, I don't believe there is a common problem for many people, especially in Thailand, believing that everybody is corrupt. The fact that you are not even prepared to debate your down-right obnoxious comment that all Thais are corrupt is further indication of your own bad experiences, and a lack of will to even entertain different viewpoints. Further weight to your baggage is that.

I hope one day you wake up to the fact that, indeed, far from all Thais are corrupt, and the majority are hard working, honest people, with good intent, and deep care for those around them, especially when in need- the latter being very far from the same situation in the West, where people disown you, frown, laugh at you, and leave you in the gutter when hard times hit.

To finish, not all Thais are corrupt, and far from it. The problem in viewing as such lays within you, alone. If anybody here disagrees with my last comment, please feel free to comment and explain why I am wrong in my debate, or my opinion, of what has been clearly stated.

**********I will not change my opinion of the country just because you believe that you are right and I am wrong. I am not a person who wastes their time debating the same issue forever and ever which you seem to like to do. I have said my piece and that's the end of it. No debating will change my mind of what I have seen and experienced in this overglorified country called Thailand. Thais are certainly not the angels you are desperately trying to paint them to be! Land of rogues and villains.

B S you have not met my wife so automatically you are full of it. I suspect that you have never strayed far from the bar scene and there fore have no idea of what Thais are like. You want to talk corrupt. Go to the nanny countries where the governments give them money so they don't have to work.

Of course you don't want to debate it you have both feet planted firmly in mid air. 66,000,000 Thais and you claim they are all corrupt.

[siampolee]

Crusheddepth post # 15

Stay away from the magic mushrooms this time.

The above quote is indeed sound advice to those Shinwatra fans and those who wear rose tinted glasses.

[jope]

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Your happiness is heartwarming. But thanks for confirming that there was a "similar situation suggested". Alright, so no "proposal" but only a suggestion. It is still my personal favorite for the "reforming" of the country.

It was not the Democrats it was the Yellow Shirts.

Grab another straw.

You don't mean reforming of the country you mean taker over by Academics and the Elite.

What "straw" are you talking about???

I was simply speculating what kind of "reform" the military or their little civilian future government will bring to the good people of Thailand (I assume, nothing what can be called free elections).

You think now that all the power lies in the hands of one single person everything will turn out great? Good for you, good for you! It is obvious how happy you are. So, continue celebrating.

[city]

My first thoughts were that the general and his buddies will change the election process to ensure the majority cannot be heard. Its dawned on me how he will achieve it. He will ensure he takes the route that sees maybe more 50% of MPs appointed rather than elected. Any comments welcome

[Fat Haggis]

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

Are you STILL spending hours of your life on here everyday arguing the same BS with people who now get their posts deleted if they criticise the dictator?

Jesus have you no friends or lifewhatsoever? You mentioned before you dont even live in Thailand but in Aus, have you really nothing better to do?

What possesses you to write this <deleted>?

So you cannot rebut what I said either?

May reconciliation be with you.

oh you don't even live in Thailand? that reduces your credibility completely I just 'assumed' with all your posts that you reside here - at least then you would have some idea and, even if I don't like your arguments, I'd respect that you live here

I'm sure Jamie said he lives in Khon Kaen ?

[city]

Yes he had a choice. He could have supported the King’s appointed government, which also, unusually for Thailand, was elected with an absolute majority. The fact that he did not gave enormous encouragement to the street demonstrations. Most particularly Prayuth and the army could have ensured that the February election was completed successfully. It would not have required anything more than making it clear that the army would not permit disruption of the process. I doubt very much if any force would have been necessary. But of course, as always with the army and just as we have in the present situation, making clear that it is to be deployed decisively is enough.

Having said that, I am not at all sure that Prayuth is the real power behind the coup any more than Sonthi was in 2006. What has happened shows all the signs of having been a concerted plan to undermine the elected government in which, the army, the courts, the Election Commission, the NACC, the “Democrat” party and Suthep’s street parties were all just part players. Furthermore I suspect that the plan was already in development at least from 3rd July 2011. Wild conspiracy theory? No, I don’t think so. The pieces all fit together far too snugly to allow any other sensible conclusion.

[jope]

My first thoughts were that the general and his buddies will change the election process to ensure the majority cannot be heard. Its dawned on me how he will achieve it. He will ensure he takes the route that sees maybe more 50% of MPs appointed rather than elected. Any comments welcome

Exactly my thoughts. Another way to go could be voting for candidates (instead of parties) and changing the constituencies unfairly. So, the North and the Northeast would have only 40 % of the seats in parliament. That should work for the old powers, shouldn't it?

[northernjohn]

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Ahhh, so we don't have to lockstep to PTP rhetoric anymore?

So when we say the rice scheme was an abysmal failure we won't be silenced, sacked and investigated like Supa was?

Silencing the opposition is a mark of a dictator, a tyrant, not of a leader when the PTP do it.

Ohhh my. I hear the red apologists minds ticking over and keyboards pounding away.

The fundamental difference is the PTP silence the opposition so they can abuse democracy now. The Junta silence the opposition so they can restore democracy later.

Hopefully real democracy.

this is the best chance Thailand has had since they went to this system of government. The last Coup was a decent one but they did not do the job completely. This General is no nonsense and has intelligence. He see's what the last one did wrong and is learning from it.

[northernjohn]

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

Are you STILL spending hours of your life on here everyday arguing the same BS with people who now get their posts deleted if they criticise the dictator?

Jesus have you no friends or lifewhatsoever? You mentioned before you dont even live in Thailand but in Aus, have you really nothing better to do?

What possesses you to write this <deleted>?

So you cannot rebut what I said either?

May reconciliation be with you.

oh you don't even live in Thailand? that reduces your credibility completely I just 'assumed' with all your posts that you reside here - at least then you would have some idea and, even if I don't like your arguments, I'd respect that you live here

There are posters that live here in Thailand who are still worshiping the ground Thaksin walks on.

Now they are not so in your face about it. Nothing to do with freedom of speech. They are tired of being laughed at so they tone it down.

[englishoak]

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Ahhh, so we don't have to lockstep to PTP rhetoric anymore?

So when we say the rice scheme was an abysmal failure we won't be silenced, sacked and investigated like Supa was?

Silencing the opposition is a mark of a dictator, a tyrant, not of a leader when the PTP do it.

Ohhh my. I hear the red apologists minds ticking over and keyboards pounding away.

The fundamental difference is the PTP silence the opposition so they can abuse democracy now. The Junta silence the opposition so they can restore democracy later.

Hopefully real democracy.

this is the best chance Thailand has had since they went to this system of government. The last Coup was a decent one but they did not do the job completely. This General is no nonsense and has intelligence. He see's what the last one did wrong and is learning from it.

So you really believe the ideas and opinions are from the general himself being an "intelligent man" as you put it and its the job of the military to set up democratic systems because they are so good at doing it but the last few times didnt work out so they need yet another and itll be all just dandy this time ? ... Let alone reforming peoples thinking to an acceptable one and allowing only positive coup comments or else. get real

Edited June 15, 2014 by englishoak

[NanLaew]

For those here espousing the fanciful notion that the poor country folk are pure and un-corrupted. Isn't the foundation of the argument against the deposed government, it's predecessors and it's leadership that it was the poor country folk that accepted bribes to vote for them? Maybe Thaksin's people did offer them money (who didn't?) but they sure as heck didn't force any poor farmers or fishermen to take the cash. Anyone offering a Thai 500 baht today or 10,000 baht tomorrow only needs to make sure he has the 500 baht.

I reckon there's a historical benchmark, a point of reference that is quite significant and unique to Thailand. Similar to BC and AD in traditional western history teaching, Thailand has BT and AT... if you need to ask, you are bereft of any clue as to what is going on here. People claiming to have been here for 10 years have only experienced the AT years and have no valid point of reference. Otherwise, as pointed out by others, they could see that none of the 19 coups, particularly the most recent ones, did much to further Thailand's development. This one is no different. People who are already eulogizing Prayuth do so because they have no valid points of reference, nothing to really compare him or this current junta with.

In every country, there are checks and balances and when the balance in Thailand upsets a certain group of entitled individuals, the army provides the checks.

[Siripon]

For those here espousing the fanciful notion that the poor country folk are pure and un-corrupted. Isn't the foundation of the argument against the deposed government, it's predecessors and it's leadership that it was the poor country folk that accepted bribes to vote for them? Maybe Thaksin's people did offer them money (who didn't?) but they sure as heck didn't force any poor farmers or fishermen to take the cash. Anyone offering a Thai 500 baht today or 10,000 baht tomorrow only needs to make sure he has the 500 baht.

I reckon there's a historical benchmark, a point of reference that is quite significant and unique to Thailand. Similar to BC and AD in traditional western history teaching, Thailand has BT and AT... if you need to ask, you are bereft of any clue as to what is going on here. People claiming to have been here for 10 years have only experienced the AT years and have no valid point of reference. Otherwise, as pointed out by others, they could see that none of the 19 coups, particularly the most recent ones, did much to further Thailand's development. This one is no different. People who are already eulogizing Prayuth do so because they have no valid points of reference, nothing to really compare him or this current junta with.

In every country, there are checks and balances and when the balance in Thailand upsets a certain group of entitled individuals, the army provides the checks.

Please don't try to compare Thaksin to Jesus Christ.

The former is a greedy man who by chance realized he could stay in power permanently by offering the people a few sweeties, 2 of those benefited the people, namely health care and minimum wage, but the rest did nothing for the common man.

His real love was power,which combined with his wealth was intoxicating for him. He had no real love for the working class, every crony, friend was rich, by whatever means.

Jesus Christ was prepared to die for his beliefs, Thaksin preferred to run away and go shopping in a high class French Mall in 2010.

What a weasel.

[hawker9000]

Yes he had a choice. He could have supported the King’s appointed government, which also, unusually for Thailand, was elected with an absolute majority. The fact that he did not gave enormous encouragement to the street demonstrations. Most particularly Prayuth and the army could have ensured that the February election was completed successfully. It would not have required anything more than making it clear that the army would not permit disruption of the process. I doubt very much if any force would have been necessary. But of course, as always with the army and just as we have in the present situation, making clear that it is to be deployed decisively is enough.

Having said that, I am not at all sure that Prayuth is the real power behind the coup any more than Sonthi was in 2006. What has happened shows all the signs of having been a concerted plan to undermine the elected government in which, the army, the courts, the Election Commission, the NACC, the “Democrat” party and Suthep’s street parties were all just part players. Furthermore I suspect that the plan was already in development at least from 3rd July 2011. Wild conspiracy theory? No, I don’t think so. The pieces all fit together far too snugly to allow any other sensible conclusion.

Wild conspiracy theory? Absolutely. (Extremely...)

[englishoak]

Yes he had a choice. He could have supported the King’s appointed government, which also, unusually for Thailand, was elected with an absolute majority. The fact that he did not gave enormous encouragement to the street demonstrations. Most particularly Prayuth and the army could have ensured that the February election was completed successfully. It would not have required anything more than making it clear that the army would not permit disruption of the process. I doubt very much if any force would have been necessary. But of course, as always with the army and just as we have in the present situation, making clear that it is to be deployed decisively is enough.

Having said that, I am not at all sure that Prayuth is the real power behind the coup any more than Sonthi was in 2006. What has happened shows all the signs of having been a concerted plan to undermine the elected government in which, the army, the courts, the Election Commission, the NACC, the “Democrat” party and Suthep’s street parties were all just part players. Furthermore I suspect that the plan was already in development at least from 3rd July 2011. Wild conspiracy theory? No, I don’t think so. The pieces all fit together far too snugly to allow any other sensible conclusion.

Wild conspiracy theory? Absolutely. (Extremely...)

Do your research, its pretty openly accepted and acknowledged. Outside Thailand of course

[hawker9000]

Yes he had a choice. He could have supported the King’s appointed government, which also, unusually for Thailand, was elected with an absolute majority. The fact that he did not gave enormous encouragement to the street demonstrations. Most particularly Prayuth and the army could have ensured that the February election was completed successfully. It would not have required anything more than making it clear that the army would not permit disruption of the process. I doubt very much if any force would have been necessary. But of course, as always with the army and just as we have in the present situation, making clear that it is to be deployed decisively is enough.

Having said that, I am not at all sure that Prayuth is the real power behind the coup any more than Sonthi was in 2006. What has happened shows all the signs of having been a concerted plan to undermine the elected government in which, the army, the courts, the Election Commission, the NACC, the “Democrat” party and Suthep’s street parties were all just part players. Furthermore I suspect that the plan was already in development at least from 3rd July 2011. Wild conspiracy theory? No, I don’t think so. The pieces all fit together far too snugly to allow any other sensible conclusion.

Wild conspiracy theory? Absolutely. (Extremely...)

Do your research, its pretty openly accepted and acknowledged. Outside Thailand of course

Horsefeathers.

[binjalin]

I'm sure Jamie said he lives in Khon Kaen ?

don't know, quoting tullynagardy, but the silence is deafening