Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[wealth]

in my neighbourhood was a restaurant with about 30 Cambodian staff. Two town-houses and a third one nearly finished for extension. All of them are gone. Food is rotting in the kitchen. It was cramped every day by mainly Thais coming with often big cars to enjoy their meals there.

[tonbridgebrit]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.
It might be the case that the supposed mass exit of non-Thai workers out of Thailand is a good thing.
Yes, condos are not going to be completed, and less people working in restaurants and other places. But, off-course, it means they will have to pay local Thai people more money to do those very jobs.
Yes, there's Thai men who constantly sleep in hammocks during the day, refusing to work, but if you paid them enough money, surely, they will work ??
Paying more wages to get Thais to work is good for Thailand. The people who are from the poorer sectors of Thai society will surely, benefit from this situation ??
It might even be the case, that a load of Thais who normally vote for Thaksin are now going to cheer on the new government. After all, it is the new government who are causing Thai companies (large and small) to pay higher wages.

And no, the above has not been written with sarcasm !

[khunsiam]

Have these Cambodian and Myanmar workers been TOLD to leave? Or are they just leaving because of some mass hysteria thinking that evil might befall them if they stay? That is an important question. In the first case, that would have been the first serious blunder in an otherwise quite intelligent handling of things by the current military junta. I consider that unlikely. Of course there is a third option. They might have been TOLD to leave, not by the Government, but by their employers who fear the consequences and fines if they are found out AND/OR want to exercise pressure on the Junta to leave and for the lovely old corrupt leaders to return. Even so, the Government SHOULD have pronounced an amnesty / regularisation measure that protects both the employers and the employees, provided of course that they now come forward and ask for a regular permit, within a certain deadline, and maybe pay a nominal fine (the employers)

witnessed police rounding up two cambodian and a vietnamese female servants in a restaurant, the vietnamese had money on her and bought her way out, the cambodians left with the police.

[englishoak]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

It might be the case that the supposed mass exit of non-Thai workers out of Thailand is a good thing.

Yes, condos are not going to be completed, and less people working in restaurants and other places. But, off-course, it means they will have to pay local Thai people more money to do those very jobs.

Yes, there's Thai men who constantly sleep in hammocks during the day, refusing to work, but if you paid them enough money, surely, they will work ??

Paying more wages to get Thais to work is good for Thailand. The people who are from the poorer sectors of Thai society will surely, benefit from this situation ??

It might even be the case, that a load of Thais who normally vote for Thaksin are now going to cheer on the new government. After all, it is the new government who are causing Thai companies (large and small) to pay higher wages.

And no, the above has not been written with sarcasm !

That will be a big economic shock to the system and raise prices ever further. Economic balance is not the strong point of soldiers

[Gringogazzer]

China cornered the manufacturing industry using a billion low paid workers in the form of their own people. Thailand utilises low paid workers from neighbouring countries with illegal status.

When they wake up and find the immigrant worker has minimum wage protection etc and they are no longer competitive, obtaining a WP will be put slightly out of reach again and the hear no evil, see no evil policy will return.

[sz1a]

This reminds me of Los Angeles when the illegal Mexican workers went on strike. LA literally stood still. This is the back-side of getting rid of illegal workers. It is a populist problem to be honest, there can't be illegal workers without employers wanting to hire them.

[Emptyset]

Thai economy does need these workers , but will be better for all (especially the workers) if they are registered

Those most at risk for abuse are undocumented workers, who are afraid to seek help if being abused

If factories need these workers let them register them...

How many of you out there would want to work without work permit?

Why should these migrant workers be forced to do so?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you and there were moves to coordinate with neighborough countries and get more people legally registered prior to the coup. If they want to do something about the problem which is actually in the interests of the migrants themselves, there's a process for that. And it takes time. Leaving thousands of people stranded at the border after forcibly removing them from their homes (in at least some cases) with little or no money is no sort of solution at all.

No one has been forcibly removed from their homes, they have got in a panic because of unfounded rumor., spread no doubt by someone with an agenda of disruption.

Rumor just like that post of yours.

Just because some rights organization picks up on the rumor, as in 'heres something sensationational we can get some publicity from' doesn't make it true.

You post some sensible comment but this time you are way out of line.

It needs to be confirmed, but I put a lot more faith in rights groups than I do in either the Thai or Cambodian govts. They're not perfect, but your claim that they're being sensationalist for publicity purposes is also not based on anything other than your own assumptions.

“Returnees have reported violent raids on houses where illegal immigrants are suspected of residing and incidences of the tearing up of documentation entitling Cambodians to work legally in the country,” the group said in a statement Wednesday.

Witnesses have alleged that of the nine Cambodian migrants killed, at least two were shot to death after they tried to take back legal working papers that Thai soldiers had begun to tear up, the Cambodia Daily reported, quoting Soum Chankea, Banteay Meanchey provincial coordinator for ADHOC.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/workers-06132014145627.html

Now, the above needs to be substantiated, but I'm amazed that people suddenly place such trust in the Thai military and police that they're able to dismiss these claims out of hand. Voranai's article in the BKK Post today spoke to this attitude. He says that people are suddenly so desperate to give up their personal freedoms that they tell anyone who says anything which differs from the junta's official line to shut up. Even the mildest skepticism is now verboten.

Anyway, it's all just rumours, there is "no crackdown".

แก้วมาลา Kaewmala @Thai_Talk · 9h

Gen Prayuth and NCPO figures also say there are “no crackdowns” on foreign migrants and that the ongoing Cambodian exodus is “seasonal.”

แก้วมาลา Kaewmala @Thai_Talk · 9h

In the PPTV report of “no crackdown” in Chiang Mai, both undocumented & documented migrant workers were rounded up. 1/2

แก้วมาลา Kaewmala @Thai_Talk · 9h

PPTV interviewed a documented migrant who had a passport & work permit from Chon Buri now working in Chiang Mai, waiting for a transfer doc.

Richard Barrow @RichardBarrow · Jun 14

[Eleven Myanmar] Thai authorities detain undocumented Myanmar workers http://www.elevenmyanmar.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6452:thai-authorities-detain-undocumented-myanmar-workers&catid=44:national&Itemid=384 …

·

@SNetibutr @Thai_Talk raids in dindaeng, small sewing factory owners have been paying fine 10k per head and foreign workers put in trucks.

I won't go on but there's plenty more evidence of the fact that there is "no crackdown" going on out there. All just rumours... just rumours. Anyway, even if there were a crackdown, which there isn't, I wouldn't like to use the word crackdown. I'd prefer to say "seasonal migration of peoples".

Edited June 15, 2014 by Emptyset

[kingalfred]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

It might be the case that the supposed mass exit of non-Thai workers out of Thailand is a good thing.

Yes, condos are not going to be completed, and less people working in restaurants and other places. But, off-course, it means they will have to pay local Thai people more money to do those very jobs.

Yes, there's Thai men who constantly sleep in hammocks during the day, refusing to work, but if you paid them enough money, surely, they will work ??

Paying more wages to get Thais to work is good for Thailand. The people who are from the poorer sectors of Thai society will surely, benefit from this situation ??

It might even be the case, that a load of Thais who normally vote for Thaksin are now going to cheer on the new government. After all, it is the new government who are causing Thai companies (large and small) to pay higher wages.

And no, the above has not been written with sarcasm !

nonsense! There is a 350 baht minimum daily wage in Bkk,300 baht elsewhere,and some Thais , not all,dont want to do honest work for that amount.They would rather go without,rely on friends or family or "other means"

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited June 15, 2014 by kingalfred

[moe666]

Not very smart. Thailand will shut down without laborers. No way are the millions of loafing Thais, lying on their hammocks going to replace this lot.

Got to love the first racist post on this thread, how many Thais do you really know because the ones I know and interact with are hard working people who get up every day and go to work for 10 to 12 hour s a day and 6 days a week. Stop with the crap post.

[Thunder26]

I find quite a few posters attacking these Cambodian workers and applauding the fact they are fleeing the country. Why?

They aren't free loading, they aren't claiming welfare, they are working, generally for a very low wage and doing jobs the Thais don't want. And they aren't in the country permanently and won't be receiving passports and handouts.

This isn't the UK, for instance, with its welfare system and weak law and order with immigrants who often abuse the system and abuse the locals and commit crime. These Cambodian workers are not the equivalent of the Roma, or Islamic asylum seekers who refuse to integrate and live in ghettos. So why the scorn and hate? Save your hate for the problems in your own countries.

And if the Thai government/junta has decided they want those without the right paperwork to leave, then why can't that be done In a humane manner and in an organized manner, allowing them time and allowing employers the time to work out how to cope without these workers?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Your comment makes a lot of sense. I believe the Cambodians who left will come back legally with the right papers. By that means they will have more rights. It is true it will hit hard some companies because they have to pay more to their employees, but at the same time it will restore order. I am watching every move the military makes and they surpassed my expectations so far. This coup is totally different from 2006.

[MaxYakov]

in my neighbourhood was a restaurant with about 30 Cambodian staff. Two town-houses and a third one nearly finished for extension. All of them are gone. Food is rotting in the kitchen. It was cramped every day by mainly Thais coming with often big cars to enjoy their meals there.

Is it?:

Business success = Big car = Customer

Or is it?:

Indebtedness success = Big car = Customer

Or is it?:

Corruption success = Big car = Customer

Or is it?:

Car Theft success = Big car = Customer

Or is it?:

Lottery success = Big car = Customer

So what is the importance of "big car" customers, exactly?

Maybe buying more profitable dishes or leaving bigger tips?

What is going to be done to serve the "Customers", above ("big car" owner or not)?

Edited June 15, 2014 by MaxYakov

[tonbridgebrit]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

It might be the case that the supposed mass exit of non-Thai workers out of Thailand is a good thing.

Yes, condos are not going to be completed, and less people working in restaurants and other places. But, off-course, it means they will have to pay local Thai people more money to do those very jobs.

Yes, there's Thai men who constantly sleep in hammocks during the day, refusing to work, but if you paid them enough money, surely, they will work ??

Paying more wages to get Thais to work is good for Thailand. The people who are from the poorer sectors of Thai society will surely, benefit from this situation ??

It might even be the case, that a load of Thais who normally vote for Thaksin are now going to cheer on the new government. After all, it is the new government who are causing Thai companies (large and small) to pay higher wages.

And no, the above has not been written with sarcasm !

nonsense! There is a 350 baht minimum daily wage in Bkk,300 baht elsewhere,and some Thais , not all,dont want to do honest work for that amount.They would rather go without,rely on friends or family or "other means"

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, King Alfred, a lot of Thais are simply not going to work for 350 baht per day. But, if a shortage of workers means companies (large and small) having to pay higher wages, say 500 or 600 baht per day, well, this will probably encourage the Thais to come out and work. And it will mean that Thais who are presently on 300 or 350 baht per day will also be on the new higher wages.

I don't reckon it's a bad thing if the lower-paid Thais get higher wages.

[kurnell]

Not very smart. Thailand will shut down without laborers. No way are the millions of loafing Thais, lying on their hammocks going to replace this lot.

Got to love the first racist post on this thread, how many Thais do you really know because the ones I know and interact with are hard working people who get up every day and go to work for 10 to 12 hour s a day and 6 days a week. Stop with the crap post.

Good for you. All I see are thousands of guys loafing, sitting on street corners in tuk tuks, girls in dept stores on their mobiles or putting on make up, security guards asleep, chatting, doing anything but their job. Upcountry it's even worse. I doubt I have seen an empty hammock here in 20 years, all hours of the day, 7 days a week.

[wilcopops]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

It might be the case that the supposed mass exit of non-Thai workers out of Thailand is a good thing.

Yes, condos are not going to be completed, and less people working in restaurants and other places. But, off-course, it means they will have to pay local Thai people more money to do those very jobs.

Yes, there's Thai men who constantly sleep in hammocks during the day, refusing to work, but if you paid them enough money, surely, they will work ??

Paying more wages to get Thais to work is good for Thailand. The people who are from the poorer sectors of Thai society will surely, benefit from this situation ??

It might even be the case, that a load of Thais who normally vote for Thaksin are now going to cheer on the new government. After all, it is the new government who are causing Thai companies (large and small) to pay higher wages.

And no, the above has not been written with sarcasm !

nonsense! There is a 350 baht minimum daily wage in Bkk,300 baht elsewhere,and some Thais , not all,dont want to do honest work for that amount.They would rather go without,rely on friends or family or "other means"

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, King Alfred, a lot of Thais are simply not going to work for 350 baht per day. But, if a shortage of workers means companies (large and small) having to pay higher wages, say 500 or 600 baht per day, well, this will probably encourage the Thais to come out and work. And it will mean that Thais who are presently on 300 or 350 baht per day will also be on the new higher wages.

I don't reckon it's a bad thing if the lower-paid Thais get higher wages.

" a lot of Thais are simply not going to work for 350 baht per day." - that old chestnut? It's rolled out in all sorts of immigration arguments and is NEVER true.

[wilcopops]

I expect a clampdown on ALL foreigners in breach of any immigration law soon. Zero tolerance on late signings, no work permit, incorrect visas, those wishing to get "O" visas.....the borders were tightened on the weeks leading up to the coup, i expect there will be a new "literal" interpretation of a lot of other laws too .....they've targeted driving laws, next should be internet, alcohol and sex industry laws?

Edited June 15, 2014 by wilcopops

[khaowong1]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

It might be the case that the supposed mass exit of non-Thai workers out of Thailand is a good thing.

Yes, condos are not going to be completed, and less people working in restaurants and other places. But, off-course, it means they will have to pay local Thai people more money to do those very jobs.

Yes, there's Thai men who constantly sleep in hammocks during the day, refusing to work, but if you paid them enough money, surely, they will work ??

Paying more wages to get Thais to work is good for Thailand. The people who are from the poorer sectors of Thai society will surely, benefit from this situation ??

It might even be the case, that a load of Thais who normally vote for Thaksin are now going to cheer on the new government. After all, it is the new government who are causing Thai companies (large and small) to pay higher wages.

And no, the above has not been written with sarcasm !

nonsense! There is a 350 baht minimum daily wage in Bkk,300 baht elsewhere,and some Thais , not all,dont want to do honest work for that amount.They would rather go without,rely on friends or family or "other means"

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, King Alfred, a lot of Thais are simply not going to work for 350 baht per day. But, if a shortage of workers means companies (large and small) having to pay higher wages, say 500 or 600 baht per day, well, this will probably encourage the Thais to come out and work. And it will mean that Thais who are presently on 300 or 350 baht per day will also be on the new higher wages.

I don't reckon it's a bad thing if the lower-paid Thais get higher wages.

same thing here in the US... we have approx. 11 - 12 million illegal aliens living here. It's said they are doing jobs that Americans don't want to do.. not necessarily true. Americans don't want to do those jobs for 5 - 6 bucks per hour. If all the illegals were thrown out, probably the hourly wage would raise to where Americans would do those jobs. I doubt seriously if those jobs would disappear if the wages were raised to a decent wage. some would.. Un-employment would disappear. It's been a thorny issue for a number of years now.

[american12bthai]

Why would they want to leave?? Can't they see we are all so happy??

These people would rather go back to Hun Sen and a military junta in Myanmar than stay in Thailand. It speaks volumes.

Now farang, tell me about your struggles under democracy in Pattaya, Phuket, Sukhumvit, Hua Hin...who will build your condos and clean your floors now??

then why are the burmese still here.? the last i looked there were no cambodians being sold as slaves to fishing pirate industries.

and since when does anyone take serious a chinese editorial.?

take a look at their fun other articles. which tends to be more accurate? a forum, or a newpaper outlet?

i have learnt never to listen to the word of a fool who enjoys fooling fools.

if you think hunsen, thought of this all by himself i would bet youre wrong.

they are here because there is no work at home, and because .. hunsin.

whoever orchestrated this maneuver is a true scumbag.

[ScotBkk]

Not very smart. Thailand will shut down without laborers. No way are the millions of loafing Thais, lying on their hammocks going to replace this lot.

Hahaha .. that made me chuckle ...........

[SiggiCM]

it is a good thing what the Thai police and Army do? OMG before you writing such stupid comments get some information,

Thailand was the only country (I repeat for you the only COUNTRY) what vote against the "Punishment of persons who profit from human trafficking"

in the UN General Assembly last week.

This shows clear what illegal workers can expect in Thailand, every week this workers get killed by thai people for joke, like happend in PTY now, a

volleyball team beat a Cambodian worker to death without any reason on his way to 7/11, he was working next to my condo construction,

I can see like the police put all their forces in getting this Thais.

Censored Press without any real News only News for Happiness and Show, why they should trust anybody in Thailand? Do You really trust this Junta?

I thought Thai are not good educated and can not see the Reallity but it seems also the Farangs believe in the censored press, may be to many Americans and British here, they believe their press and goverment everything, even for the price of a war

[choochoo]

Oh dear. Equal numbers returning to Myanmar probably, yet to see the figures.

This is going to be one of the biggest knock on effects of the coup and very difficult to restore confidence. There will be many inactive work sites in the coming weeks.

Watch for very special express work permit deals for foreign labour coming from the powers that be in the very near future.

It can't get any slower,it's taken nearly 18 months to build the Global House up here in Phetchabun.

get a crew of $100,000 amerikans workers - terminal 21 would have been built in 2 years.

[sailblue]

Large numbers work illegally. They pay 1000 bt a head to the bag man for protection. Maybe because the bag man is scared to collect they feel in danger.

This will stop plenty of businesses or make them get legal.

I have Thai friends that have pub restaurants in BKK, they can not get Thai workers ( or maybe it is the salary they want ) most of the service staff are Cambodian or Vietnamese.

[MK1]

It just reveals yet again another element to the out-of-control lawlessness, with respect to compliance with the law, that was allowed to go on under the previous government.

Had they had permits to work and stay in Thailand; there would be no need to flee.

The sky will not fall in after their departure.

Did these "illegal immigrants" just suddenly decide to come and work in Thailand en masse on July 3rd 2011, or would you accept that they may have been coming to Thailand and working for some time before? I know it's almost compulsory on this forum to blame everything on the PTP or Thaksin, but give it a rest, will you.

You’re right on one aspect, it just simple didn’t happen overnight and previous interim governments never bothered to focus on cracking down on the activity because the situation was not dire or nor out of control. However, what normally causes such an influx is ‘major policy change’ such as a rise in the minimum daily wage in Thailand.

Much to the astonishment of the business community before PTP/Thaksin clan came back into office was that they promised to raise the minimum wage and in the end they did. The influx of Khmer workers was a result of that policy change since the business community i.e. developers, did not want to adapt nor accept that change without presumably some sought of increase in productivity.

Edited June 15, 2014 by MK1

[michaeljordan]

Love of money in Thailand is the greatest evil.

Funny a people who want to see themselves as Buddists being so so materialistic.

Everything here is about money.

Relationships

Family

Even religion

People are for sale here

But all and all--back on topic now--I would be worried if I were even a farang working in Thailand. This clean up of workers could easily go over to Farangs soon.

[Fat Haggis]

Would I be right in stating that many here supported the illegals working here for a pittance (less than minimum wage) and some may have employed illegals but they are totally against corruption, and abuse of power? Other than the fact it's exploitation and more than likely against the law to employ illegals, it's perfectly okay?

I can't get my head around that logic, I read on some FB pages that restaurant owners/managers were very upset about this, as in losing all their staff, would it not have been in their best interests to have registered legal aliens on their books, rather than taking the chance and be breaking some kind of law?

If the Junta have said they were going to clamp down on illegal aliens, why hasn't this been met with the same praise as all the other clamp downs? A bit too close to home for many?

I don't believe that tens of thousands are "fleeing" just because of a rumour, they say there's no smoke without fire

[Timwin]

Our company brings over 350,000 tourists from Europe to Thailand per year and they all leave after 14-30 days.

So the company you work for basically brings the annoying drunken riff raff here with cheap cattle flights! And you complain about long term tourists! HA HA HA! Tell us more!

[tangcoral]

Large numbers work illegally. They pay 1000 bt a head to the bag man for protection. Maybe because the bag man is scared to collect they feel in danger.

This will stop plenty of businesses or make them get legal.

I have Thai friends that have pub restaurants in BKK, they can not get Thai workers ( or maybe it is the salary they want ) most of the service staff are Cambodian or Vietnamese.

Its not that thai workers are not willing to work, its more like owners are looking for cheaper labor.

[Timwin]

Very bad shock to the system. Builders unable to complete their projects, factories and restaurants closing down without workers.

[yellow1red1]

The our military dictator is better than your military dictator thread that runs through this Topic is very entertaining.

[Emptyset]

Would I be right in stating that many here supported the illegals working here for a pittance (less than minimum wage) and some may have employed illegals but they are totally against corruption, and abuse of power? Other than the fact it's exploitation and more than likely against the law to employ illegals, it's perfectly okay?

I can't get my head around that logic, I read on some FB pages that restaurant owners/managers were very upset about this, as in losing all their staff, would it not have been in their best interests to have registered legal aliens on their books, rather than taking the chance and be breaking some kind of law?

If the Junta have said they were going to clamp down on illegal aliens, why hasn't this been met with the same praise as all the other clamp downs? A bit too close to home for many?

I don't believe that tens of thousands are "fleeing" just because of a rumour, they say there's no smoke without fire

Can't see why you'd be applauding this move if you have any concern for the welfare of these workers, Fat Haggis. The fact you talk about exploitation makes it sound like you do, but we're not talking about people trafficked and sold into slavery being freed here. We're generally talking about people who have made the choice to come to Thailand as the opportunities for them in Cambodia & Myanmar are so dire. Yes, they are exploited in Thailand, but they are more exploited in Cambodia. It's a choice of greater vs lesser exploitation. Now many of them are going back to families in rural areas of Cambodia who are already struggling without extra mouths to feed. Of course there is little work and little hope in these areas, or the migrants would have never left in the first place. And that's in the best case scenario, some of them have worked in Thailand for years and have no home to return to in Cambodia.

I can't see why anyone would be applauding thousands of people fleeing in fear, frankly. Yes, conditions can be improved but cracking down in this manner is punishing no one but these migrants themselves. These are people that are on the margins, living precariously from day to day, at the edges of the system with none of the protections that citizens are entitled to. What they were doing before the coup was working on a process to make it easier for migrants to register legally, some already were under the NV program, but it's been very difficult to get visas renewed since the start of the crisis. And apparently even many of those who are legal are leaving out of fear they'll be caught up in the crackdown which isn't happening.

Nope, can't see anything positive about these moves if you're concerned about the rights of migrants and exploitation. More likely it's going to put them in a position where it's more easy to exploit them as they become more desperate. But don't rely on me for info, talk to someone who works with migrants and ask them for their opinion on this crackdown. I'd be surprised if there are any that support these moves.

[Emptyset]

Very bad shock to the system. Builders unable to complete their projects, factories and restaurants closing down without workers.

Yes, even if you forget about the welfare of the migrants and just look at the effects on the economy... those praising this move for those reasons (raising wages etc) are... misguided. What happens is these people are itinerant and they move around to wherever they're required. Most Thais can't do that. It's not that they're lazy or don't want to. They just can't keep move around the country to work on various labour projects for low pay etc.

Migrants often live in conditions that Thais would not want to live in, v. cheap shared/collective accomodation often provided by the employer, they travel on buses provided by employers from their shared accomodation, and live very frugal lives. People start projects knowing they can employ labour that accepts these conditions. If they could only hire Thais, a lot wouldn't get done. I have no respect for these exploitative employers, yet as I said previously, the migrants want to do this sort of work because conditions and opportunities at home are often far worse.

Also Thailand has a very low unemployment rate anyway, so any "stealing jobs" argument is clearly unfounded. If there are any studies, I'd be pretty confident that they'd show the net effect of this sort of migration on growth is positive, and that growth benefits everyone.