Business owner, B Visa quandry

[EBlair48]

I have a WP valid until January 31.

My visa B entry expires July7

I own my own company, and work for it and have supporting papers.

However when I went to immigration last week to clarify one form (sor mor 1- and 2 ) the man in back row, made a lot of noises about how difficult it would be to renew permission to stay.

" very very difficult" he said 3 times. We were not even looking at my papers yet as I'm still collecting them.

I've had this request rejected last year as " the business didn't have sufficient income..."

The Volunteer Immigration person told me he did not think Penang was giving out 1 year B visa anymore.

And neither is KL, correct?

What am I suppose to do? Is a ruse by immigration to get me to hire an expensive agent so a fee gets split?

How can I complain?

I actually plan to leave permanently in October, maybe better to just ...what ?

Do I dare go down the tourist visa route with all the new uncertainties? Probably not and also..

If I don't shut the company down correctly ( 60,000- 150,000 thb I'm quoted ) then I'm owning a co without a WP. I'd rather not spend that as I won't be back..

The WP needs a B visa or is invalidated, correct ?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

[digitalchromakey]

The volunteers at Phuket Immigration are by no means all knowing, so please take what they say with a pinch of salt - see my post in your other thread re Penang.

Sor Mor 1 and Sor Mor 2, do you mean the สฅม.1. and สฅม.2?

- see list of required documents for Phuket listed below, there is a lot of paperwork and they will want 4 Thai Employees plus tax and social records for them:

Visa extension on the basis of employment 777 2551 Case 2.1t.pdf

If you can't hit all the hoops in my list above then forget the Case 2.1 extension.

Phuket are super strict on 2.1 extensions - there's no getting round it legitimately.

'B' Visa entry expired/No Extension, no new 'B' entry, your WP is in trouble and is invalidated.

[EBlair48]

Sorry I cannot read that Thai- however the paperwork is not my problem I feel sure it is adequate I have the lists, I was just trying to inquire if the form had to be in English which was a 1 hour ordeal just to ask that question

I just suspect I'm being set upi for a refusal i order to get an agent in on it - as I said I have' even shown them the papers yet, and already it's

Oh too difficult so difficult quite blatant...

So if I can't get an extension in TLand I can't get a new B as the Wp is only valid for 6 more months- leaves me...?

All I need is until Oct , then I'm out of this flaming hoop rat maze

The volunteers at Phuket Immigration are by no means all knowing, so please take what they say with a pinch of salt - see my post in your other thread re Penang.

Sor Mor 1 and Sor Mor 2, do you mean the สฅม.1. and สฅม.2?

- see list of required documents for Phuket listed below, there is a lot of paperwork and they will want 4 Thai Employees plus tax and social records for them:

If you can't hit all the hoops in my list above then forget the Case 2.1 extension.

Phuket are super strict on 2.1 extensions - there's no getting round it legitimately.

'B' Visa entry expired/No Extension, no new 'B' entry, your WP is in trouble and is invalidated.

[digitalchromakey]

Sorry I cannot read that Thai- however the paperwork is not my problem I feel sure it is adequate I have the lists, I was just trying to inquire if the form had to be in English which was a 1 hour ordeal just to ask that question

I just suspect I'm being set upi for a refusal i order to get an agent in on it - as I said I have' even shown them the papers yet, and already it's

Oh too difficult so difficult quite blatant...

So if I can't get an extension in TLand I can't get a new B as the Wp is only valid for 6 more months- leaves me...?

All I need is until Oct , then I'm out of this flaming hoop rat maze

The volunteers at Phuket Immigration are by no means all knowing, so please take what they say with a pinch of salt - see my post in your other thread re Penang.

Sor Mor 1 and Sor Mor 2, do you mean the สฅม.1. and สฅม.2?

- see list of required documents for Phuket listed below, there is a lot of paperwork and they will want 4 Thai Employees plus tax and social records for them:

If you can't hit all the hoops in my list above then forget the Case 2.1 extension.

Phuket are super strict on 2.1 extensions - there's no getting round it legitimately.

'B' Visa entry expired/No Extension, no new 'B' entry, your WP is in trouble and is invalidated.

The forms I presumed that you were referring to are Sor Dtor Mor 1 and 2 (Dtor Mor is the Thai for Immigration), these are Immigration 'special' pro-formas they want filling out - much better if they are done in Thai.

Unfortunately the paperwork is your problem and needs to be correct - if you or your staff can't do it then you probably do need an agent.

Forget about the law of contract (actually understanding what you are signing), Phuket Labour also like their forms to be filled out in Thai, Immigration the same apart from the TM7 itself.

If your paper work is really in order then go for it, but even then I guarantee they will still find some thing they don't like, which may or may not, be fixable - this is how it works with Phuket Immigration.

You can always get a 90 day Non 'b' from Penang and then it's October.

[EBlair48]

Sorry I cannot read that Thai- however the paperwork is not my problem I feel sure it is adequate I have the lists, I was just trying to inquire if the form had to be in English which was a 1 hour ordeal just to ask that question

I just suspect I'm being set upi for a refusal i order to get an agent in on it - as I said I have' even shown them the papers yet, and already it's

Oh too difficult so difficult quite blatant...

So if I can't get an extension in TLand I can't get a new B as the Wp is only valid for 6 more months- leaves me...?

All I need is until Oct , then I'm out of this flaming hoop rat maze

The volunteers at Phuket Immigration are by no means all knowing, so please take what they say with a pinch of salt - see my post in your other thread re Penang.

Sor Mor 1 and Sor Mor 2, do you mean the สฅม.1. and สฅม.2?

- see list of required documents for Phuket listed below, there is a lot of paperwork and they will want 4 Thai Employees plus tax and social records for them:

If you can't hit all the hoops in my list above then forget the Case 2.1 extension.

Phuket are super strict on 2.1 extensions - there's no getting round it legitimately.

'B' Visa entry expired/No Extension, no new 'B' entry, your WP is in trouble and is invalidated.

The forms I presumed that you were referring to are Sor Dtor Mor 1 and 2 (Dtor Mor is the Thai for Immigration), these are Immigration 'special' pro-formas they want filling out - much better if they are done in Thai.

Unfortunately the paperwork is your problem and needs to be correct - if you or your staff can't do it then you probably do need an agent.

Forget about the law of contract (actually understanding what you are signing), Phuket Labour also like their forms to be filled out in Thai, Immigration the same apart from the TM7 itself.

If your paper work is really in order then go for it, but even then I guarantee they will still find some thing they don't like, which may or may not, be fixable - this is how it works with Phuket Immigration.

You can always get a 90 day Non 'b' from Penang and then it's October.

- So is my hunch correct they always find something wrong, so you are forced to use an agent?

when I called after not getting my questioned answered, to try get it answered the same guy got on the line, he was adamant "you come back and use me, man number 4- make 2 copies 2 copies " wouldn't tell me his name. Circling for his hand out?

[ubonjoe]

I assume you currently have a multiple entry non-b visa and entry. When does it expire or are you on your last entry from it now.

You can still get a multiple entry non-b in Penang if you have at least 8 or 9 months left on your work permit which of course you do not have.

You could go to Penang and get a single entry B visa with your work permit and company paperwork. That would be better than getting a single entry tourist visa.from there.

[p_brownstone]

On a slightly different subject.

You seem to imply that in October you will leave Thailand and simply walk away from the Company without closing it down correctly.

Whilst you will be out of the Country and not intending to return this may have no effect on you, however your Company will have at least 2 Thai shareholders, who, if they are Directors, will be subject to penalties from the authorities for not submitting the necessary paperwork and paying the fees involved.

They will most certainly be upset with you!

Patrick

[Dogmatix]

On a slightly different subject.

You seem to imply that in October you will leave Thailand and simply walk away from the Company without closing it down correctly.

Whilst you will be out of the Country and not intending to return this may have no effect on you, however your Company will have at least 2 Thai shareholders, who, if they are Directors, will be subject to penalties from the authorities for not submitting the necessary paperwork and paying the fees involved.

They will most certainly be upset with you!

Patrick

Also it takes some time to wind up a Thai company because BDD won't mothball it until there has been a public advertisement made to let potential creditors know with sufficient time for them to come and claim any debts before the assets of the company are divided amongst shareholders. I think it takes 1-3 years, depending on size and complexity. If you don't wind it up the company will be fined for not submitting its audited annual accounts to the BDD and for not submitting monthly VAT returns and all the other returns that have to go to the Revenue Dept. The Revenue Dept can also make an arbitrary assessment of tax on company's who refuse to submit tax returns. The BDD can go after any of the directors for these fines and the statute of limitations for tax is 20 years I think.

If you are the sole director, there may no come back against anyone but, if you have Thai directors who are not leaving Thailand permanently with you, this is going to be a hassle down the track for them. You should certainly advise them to resign now before pulling the plug.

[EBlair48]

^ No I am the director.

I had a conversation with the manager of the local DBD last year, and he informed me about 3000 dormant companies in Phuket alone, so it would be a while. No way I'm spending good money after bad, latest quote to shut it down is 150,000 baht. That's more than it cost to register it! $ 5000 USD !!! These accountants are out of control.

Gave the workers notice yesterday. Might as well stop the business taxes and accounting too and save another 12,000 a month for next three months. I can pay the SS on the workers myself.

I cannot wait to get out of here, so tired of this hoop jumping trying to be legal when it's no big deal to stay here illegally, apparently- lots of people do it.

20,00 cap on the overstay fine, (?) almost worth it to not waste any more time and aggravation .

YARD SALE GALORE !!

[digitalchromakey]

^ No I am the director.

I had a conversation with the manager of the local DBD last year, and he informed me about 3000 dormant companies in Phuket alone, so it would be a while. No way I'm spending good money after bad, latest quote to shut it down is 150,000 baht. That's more than it cost to register it! $ 5000 USD !!! These accountants are out of control.

Gave the workers notice yesterday. Might as well stop the business taxes and accounting too and save another 12,000 a month for next three months. I can pay the SS on the workers myself.

I cannot wait to get out of here, so tired of this hoop jumping trying to be legal when it's no big deal to stay here illegally, apparently- lots of people do it.

20,00 cap on the overstay fine, (?) almost worth it to not waste any more time and aggravation .

YARD SALE GALORE !!

Please do PM me when you leave, I would love to attend your yard sale.

Shutting down your company legally is actually not that expensive, do it at the end of the financial year, pay taxes due and have your accounts correctly audited and the correct notices posted In the press (total approx. 10-25,000 THB) - that's about it.

So unless you owe loads and loads of tax, I strongly suggest you find a new accountant, rather than burning bridges which is rarely a wise approach.

[EBlair48]

^ The yard sale is ongoing, I have an ad here in fact, some nice antiques 1910 bed set, Art Nouveau , silk Persian rugs that are quite valuable, really from Iraq. Iron patio set with 4 super nice spring chairs, professional guitar, etc etc

So after having every single paper in order, which was I noticed, most annoying to the officer, it was announced the company " doesn't make enough profit"

I had to laugh. Really laughed in fact. They are so absurdly obvious. After he minced about a bit, (literally, ) he offered to send the application to Hua Hin as they don't approve B visa extensions in Phuket I was told ( more BS?) almost did it but will lose 3800 no doubt .

It was also announced foreigners are not allowed to visit Immigration for extensions without bringing a Thai, company staff preferably, even if said Thai staff are border line illiterate with minimum of English- being manual laborers.

The officer also informed me the English language list of docs was wrong, " out of date" and gave me a list-in Thai. When I asked another officer for the same list, he gave the same list I already had- in English.

Sadly, I cannot write a description of the depth of my contempt for that office.

The accountant, when I asked her how to complain, ( when you call Immig in BKK, no one speaks En glish) she informed me " They are Mafia, and will kill you.."

Good grief . The load of BS just piles up and up ...and up.

[digitalchromakey]

^ The yard sale is ongoing, I have an ad here in fact, some nice antiques 1910 bed set, Art Nouveau , silk Persian rugs that are quite valuable, really from Iraq. Iron patio set with 4 super nice spring chairs, professional guitar, etc etc

So after having every single paper in order, which was I noticed, most annoying to the officer, it was announced the company " doesn't make enough profit"

I had to laugh. Really laughed in fact. They are so absurdly obvious. After he minced about a bit, (literally, ) he offered to send the application to Hua Hin as they don't approve B visa extensions in Phuket I was told ( more BS?) almost did it but will lose 3800 no doubt .

It was also announced foreigners are not allowed to visit Immigration for extensions without bringing a Thai, company staff preferably, even if said Thai staff are border line illiterate with minimum of English- being manual laborers.

The officer also informed me the English language list of docs was wrong, " out of date" and gave me a list-in Thai. When I asked another officer for the same list, he gave the same list I already had- in English.

Sadly, I cannot write a description of the depth of my contempt for that office.

The accountant, when I asked her how to complain, ( when you call Immig in BKK, no one speaks En glish) she informed me " They are Mafia, and will kill you.."

Good grief . The load of BS just piles up and up ...and up.

It's Had Yai, the Southern Region Immigration Head Quarters of immigration Division 6, where Phuket Extensions of Permission to Stay get formally approved.

The application fee btw is 1900, not 3800 THB.

Normally they won't forward your papers and give you the one month conditional approval, unless your paperwork will pass muster in Had Yai, but the grey areas do give the immigration officers some scope for 'fun'.

Well at least you were warned about Phuket, they do like their paperwork to be perfectly in order and even then they will find fault with it, however many small problems they find can be corrected, some cannot. If you take a confrontational approach to them, then your application is probably doomed.

That's why it's always a good idea to have an agent or experienced company representative with you.

Thanks for the update on your yard sale - a bit out of my league - sorry

[EBlair48]

^ The more mundane accoutrements will be going in late summer.

I will be going in to get a 7 day extension so as to extend the yet to be procured 90 day to mid Oct do I need to take staff or an agent, perhaps my first born for that ?

[digitalchromakey]

^ The more mundane accoutrements will be going in late summer.

I will be going in to get a 7 day extension so as to extend the yet to be procured 90 day to mid Oct do I need to take staff or an agent, perhaps my first born for that ?

No, particularly since the 7 day extension is in effect a refusal of any other extension type, it is difficult to go wrong on this one.

Looking forward to your yard sale for the more run of the mill items that you may wish to leave behind.