Uganda slammed with sanctions over anti-gay laws

[Emster23]

First, It is none of the USA's business. Uganda is a Sovereign Nation and has a right to establish their own laws. I dare say Uganda may not approve of some of the USA Laws, so be it.

From what I read only less than 12% follow these alternative life styles, but they want to wipe it in everybodies face. If you must do it, do it behind closes doors and keep children out of it !!

The Bible and Quran speak out against this. Thailand tolerates a more liberal view of these things.

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah made a pretty straight forward statement about where deteriorating morals and all the things associated with it leads too.

Jerry

The sanctions are USA business. If we don't want to do business, if we want to restrict those people from visiting to USA (a sovereign nation) that is USA's decision. If Uganda wants to sanction USA, that is also their right.

"Only less than 12%"???? Is that supposed to make it acceptable? Perhaps you believe in the tyranny of the majority?

The bible and koran also think slavery, incest, genocide etc are okay. Are you all in with that? (maybe....). Religion is all made up by imperfect humans with their own prejudices and bias, and that puts it on no higher level than a news paper editorial. Perhaps more like the funny papers. Hatred is hatred. Be man enough to admit your hatred and don't blame it on some fairy tales that are not even consistent within their own writings.

[rgs2001uk]

Isn't it a countries sovereign right to decide on what laws to impose?

Not saying I agree with it, but would think there are more important issues that John Kerry etc should be getting on with.

If all else fails, send in Tony Blair.

Human rights don't have borders.

Well that depends on your definition of human rights, and whose human rights they are.

The cynic in me feels these poor gays are nothing more than pawns in American politics.

I worked alongside Americans, to them I was the spawn of Satan, I supported, capital punishment, abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage.

Some Americans need to get outside of their comfort zone and visit the rest of the world to get a feel of how the rest of the world thinks.

I am pro gay marriage, but in this case I am anti America sticking its beak into another countrys affairs.

Didnt Mr Prez say recently words to the effect, we cant be the worlds policeman, DID YOU GET THAT MR PREZ?

[tw25rw]

First, It is none of the USA's business. Uganda is a Sovereign Nation and has a right to establish their own laws. I dare say Uganda may not approve of some of the USA Laws, so be it.

From what I read only less than 12% follow these alternative life styles, but they want to wipe it in everybodies face. If you must do it, do it behind closes doors and keep children out of it !!

The Bible and Quran speak out against this. Thailand tolerates a more liberal view of these things.

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah made a pretty straight forward statement about where deteriorating morals and all the things associated with it leads too.

Jerry

These people are being imprisoned or murdered because of who they are. They don't have to go public. They just need someone to inform on them.

The Bible and Quran are bronze age books written by small minded people with little knowledge of the world but an obsession with an imaginary creator. Time to abandon them and move on.

Edited June 20, 2014 by tw25rw

[Scott]

Yes that's why the USA is exerting its sovereign right not to conduct military exercises with nor send aid to Uganda.

I think they'll get by.

They derive nearly 10% of their gross national income from aid most of which is supplied by the US.

10%? As I said they'll get by. They should target the muslim states if they are genuine,

I find it interesting that people can actually support the persecution of others. I have trouble understanding why someone would suggest that a Christian group should be encouraged to look for support from a Muslim country so that they can continue to mistreat a group of people.

Unbelievable. And disappointing.

[Scott]

The Bible and Quran speak out against this.

That really does not matter a jot. It does not give anyone the right to murder someone for nothing.

They (USA government) are picking a soft target.

And the people being persecuted are not a soft target? Are they a well organized, armed group in Uganda?

[rgs2001uk]

First, It is none of the USA's business. Uganda is a Sovereign Nation and has a right to establish their own laws. I dare say Uganda may not approve of some of the USA Laws, so be it.

From what I read only less than 12% follow these alternative life styles, but they want to wipe it in everybodies face. If you must do it, do it behind closes doors and keep children out of it !!

The Bible and Quran speak out against this. Thailand tolerates a more liberal view of these things.

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah made a pretty straight forward statement about where deteriorating morals and all the things associated with it leads too.

Jerry

These people are being imprisoned or murdered because of who they are. They don't have to go public. They just need someone to inform on them.

The Bible and Quran are bronze age books written by small minded people with little knowledge of the world but an obsession with an imaginary creator. Time to abandon them and move on.

Couldnt agree more, perhaps Uncle Sam might want to tell that to the Saudis.

Tell the Saudis, we dont need your stinking oil, and we will impose sanctions on anyone who does business with you.

Get that Mr Kerry did you?

Good man now run along and get it sorted.

[Scott]

When will the bleeding heart libs in America wake up to the fact that, the rest of the world doesnt march to the same drum as Uncle Sam.

This is nothing to do with anti homosexual laws, more to do with cultural imperialism.

If Uncle Sam was so concerned about anti gay laws, why does he still do business with one of the most repressive anti gay regimes on earth, the Saudis?

This is more for internal American politics and getting Hilary to the Whitehouse than anything to do with empathy for gays.

The difference doesn't make much difference to the people being mistreated, but the Saudis, like many other countries have had those laws in place for a long time. Uganda did not. It is taking a step backwards.

[rgs2001uk]

When will the bleeding heart libs in America wake up to the fact that, the rest of the world doesnt march to the same drum as Uncle Sam.

This is nothing to do with anti homosexual laws, more to do with cultural imperialism.

If Uncle Sam was so concerned about anti gay laws, why does he still do business with one of the most repressive anti gay regimes on earth, the Saudis?

This is more for internal American politics and getting Hilary to the Whitehouse than anything to do with empathy for gays.

The difference doesn't make much difference to the people being mistreated, but the Saudis, like many other countries have had those laws in place for a long time. Uganda did not. It is taking a step backwards.

Agreed, but this is perhaps being driven more by internal Ugandan politics than anything Uncle sam has to say on the matter.

Perhaps the American Ambassador in Thailand could have a word with the Thais for their refusal to recognise gay marriages.

My BIL would love to know why he can live in Sweden with his partner, but his partner cant live with him in Thailand on a marriage visa.

[Steely Dan]

The legislation "runs counter to universal human rights and complicates our bilateral relationship," the White House said, renewing calls for the law to be repealed.

There you go, universal human rights are universal, not just bilateral. I therefore assume in the interests of consistency similar sanctions will be applied to all Countries which abuse them.

[Incobart]

First, It is none of the USA's business. Uganda is a Sovereign Nation and has a right to establish their own laws. I dare say Uganda may not approve of some of the USA Laws, so be it.

From what I read only less than 12% follow these alternative life styles, but they want to wipe it in everybodies face. If you must do it, do it behind closes doors and keep children out of it !!

The Bible and Quran speak out against this. Thailand tolerates a more liberal view of these things.

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah made a pretty straight forward statement about where deteriorating morals and all the things associated with it leads too.

Jerry

Sorry Mr Jerry, but you don't understand it at all..

Imagen , Thailand comes with a law, that everyone that have feelings or relationship with someone of another culture or race, should be informed to the police, so they can catch (you and your wife ?) to put in prison for the rest of your lives, being tortured, humiliated, or killed. also for all your farang friends.

I am sure you will be happy if the US or any group will comes to support you,

I am sure you will think, why have other people or a gouverment have to interfere with who I love, or want to be with, thinking what am I doing wrong to somebody else ??.

The only thing is, for these people its NOT Imagen, its real live, true (holocaust) they live in.

Good you not tell that its good what they doing, but surely you would be happy with a life where everyone looks down on (you and your thai wife) and tolerate it , as long as you stay indoors, and keep it out of children eyes.

[mrtoad]

Isn't it a countries sovereign right to decide on what laws to impose?

Not saying I agree with it, but would think there are more important issues that John Kerry etc should be getting on with.

If all else fails, send in Tony Blair.

Human rights don't have borders.

Yes, I see Charles Taylor is now playing that card.

[Jingthing]

Cultural imperialism? Tell that to the villainous American fundies who directly influenced Uganda to go this route. If you don't know about this watch God Loves Uganda.

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[MyFriend You]

Isn't it a countries sovereign right to decide on what laws to impose?

Yes that's why the USA is exerting its sovereign right not to conduct military exercises with nor send aid to Uganda.

I am sure Uganda are not to bothered about it.

They will be when the aid cash starts to dry up and they can no longer get visas to go shopping on Fifth Avenue.

Hopefully the sanctions will include banning the Private Security companies owned by their Generals and the Presidents' relatives ............the Ugandans in Iraq were a scruffy, undisciplined security company, albeit, the Lowest Bidder..........bring back the Peruvians in Triple Canopy, we wewre better served by them.

[RuamRudy]

First, It is none of the USA's business. Uganda is a Sovereign Nation and has a right to establish their own laws. I dare say Uganda may not approve of some of the USA Laws, so be it.

From what I read only less than 12% follow these alternative life styles, but they want to wipe it in everybodies face. If you must do it, do it behind closes doors and keep children out of it !!

The Bible and Quran speak out against this. Thailand tolerates a more liberal view of these things.

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah made a pretty straight forward statement about where deteriorating morals and all the things associated with it leads too.

Jerry

Why should the people of the world be judged according to ancient fairy tales?

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Because modern fairy tales are even more arbitrary and man-made.

I would go with the ancient anytime..they stood the test of time.

OK, that is the soundbite; how about fleshing it out with something tangible?

Any examples of modern notions and sensibilities that advocate the most appalling stigmatisation of minorities for the mere fact that they happen to be different?

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[Scott]

Some replies to a deleted post have been removed. For those that were inquiring, Mary Has left the building.

[FritsSikkink]

First, It is none of the USA's business. Uganda is a Sovereign Nation and has a right to establish their own laws. I dare say Uganda may not approve of some of the USA Laws, so be it.

From what I read only less than 12% follow these alternative life styles, but they want to wipe it in everybodies face. If you must do it, do it behind closes doors and keep children out of it !!

The Bible and Quran speak out against this. Thailand tolerates a more liberal view of these things.

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah made a pretty straight forward statement about where deteriorating morals and all the things associated with it leads too.

Jerry

Why should the people of the world be judged according to ancient fairy tales?

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Because modern fairy tales are even more arbitrary and man-made.

I would go with the ancient anytime..they stood the test of time.

Like the earth is flat you mean?

[CMNightRider]

*Deleted posts edited out*

I am not American, it has been almost 20 years since I was last in the US, and I care little about the country or its politics, despite them being foisted around the world.

The focus of this thread should be the reprehensible treatment of a minority people - please don't cloud the issue with tea party paranoia.

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How did the "Tea Party" get in here? Lol.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed from view.

[CMNightRider]

I think Ugandan prison is not a happy or a gay place to be for the rest of your life. Watch God Loves Uganda for information about how American far right wing Christian fundamentalist fanatics have influenced Uganda and other African nations towards these extremist anti-gay laws. These same American hate groups working under the cover of religion are active globally, in Russia and no doubt in Thailand as well.

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The Uganda laws regarding homosexuals are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed "unnatural sex" among local Ugandan people. "Christian fundamentalist" have nothing to do with these laws.

[sustento]

I think Ugandan prison is not a happy or a gay place to be for the rest of your life. Watch God Loves Uganda for information about how American far right wing Christian fundamentalist fanatics have influenced Uganda and other African nations towards these extremist anti-gay laws. These same American hate groups working under the cover of religion are active globally, in Russia and no doubt in Thailand as well.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Uganda laws regarding homosexuals are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed "unnatural sex" among local Ugandan people. "Christian fundamentalist" have nothing to do with these laws.

Uganda gained independence from the UK in the early 60s. That's 50 years ago. The anti-gay laws passed in Uganda this year have nothing whatever to do with British colonialism. In fact the UK government condemned them.

Christian fundamentalists like Scott Lively do indeed have a great deal to do with these latest laws.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/colinfreeman/100261161/have-us-evangelists-helped-to-inspire-ugandas-anti-gay-laws/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/colinfreeman/100261161/have-us-evangelists-helped-to-inspire-ugandas-anti-gay-laws/

Edited June 22, 2014 by sustento

[CMNightRider]

I think Ugandan prison is not a happy or a gay place to be for the rest of your life. Watch God Loves Uganda for information about how American far right wing Christian fundamentalist fanatics have influenced Uganda and other African nations towards these extremist anti-gay laws. These same American hate groups working under the cover of religion are active globally, in Russia and no doubt in Thailand as well.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Uganda laws regarding homosexuals are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed "unnatural sex" among local Ugandan people. "Christian fundamentalist" have nothing to do with these laws.

Uganda gained independence from the UK in the early 60s. That's 50 years ago. The anti-gay laws passed in Uganda this year have nothing whatever to do with British colonialism. In fact the UK government condemned them.

Christian fundamentalists like Scott Lively do indeed have a great deal to do with these latest laws.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/colinfreeman/100261161/have-us-evangelists-helped-to-inspire-ugandas-anti-gay-laws/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/colinfreeman/100261161/have-us-evangelists-helped-to-inspire-ugandas-anti-gay-laws/

I think you missed the part about "remnants of British colonialism. Of course the UK condemns the anti-gay laws of Uganda today. The Telegraph reporter in the above mentioned article gives Scott Lively, far too much credit for influencing Uganda or any other African nation regarding their anti-gay laws.

Thirty-eight of fifty-three African nations criminalize homosexuality in one way or another. Do you honestly think this is because of Scott Lively's books? I don't think so.

[sustento]

I think Ugandan prison is not a happy or a gay place to be for the rest of your life. Watch God Loves Uganda for information about how American far right wing Christian fundamentalist fanatics have influenced Uganda and other African nations towards these extremist anti-gay laws. These same American hate groups working under the cover of religion are active globally, in Russia and no doubt in Thailand as well.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Uganda laws regarding homosexuals are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed "unnatural sex" among local Ugandan people. "Christian fundamentalist" have nothing to do with these laws.

Uganda gained independence from the UK in the early 60s. That's 50 years ago. The anti-gay laws passed in Uganda this year have nothing whatever to do with British colonialism. In fact the UK government condemned them.

Christian fundamentalists like Scott Lively do indeed have a great deal to do with these latest laws.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/colinfreeman/100261161/have-us-evangelists-helped-to-inspire-ugandas-anti-gay-laws/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/colinfreeman/100261161/have-us-evangelists-helped-to-inspire-ugandas-anti-gay-laws/

I think you missed the part about "remnants of British colonialism.

I didn't miss it at all. You were implying that the change of law in 2014 is somehow a remnant of something which ended 50 years ago. The original laws may be remnants of British colonialism, changes that were made last February aren't.

A motion to introduce the legislation was passed a month after a three day conference which included Lively and two of his fellow evangelists.

From wiki:

"From 5 to 8 March 2009, a workshop took place in Kampala, the capital of Uganda, that featured three American evangelical Christians: Scott Lively, an author who has written several books opposing homosexuality; Caleb Lee Brundidge, a self-professed former gay man who conducts sessions to heal homosexuality; and Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, an organisation devoted to promoting "freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ".^[16][17] The theme of the conference, according to The New York Times, was the "gay agenda": "how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how 'the gay movement is an evil institution' whose goal is 'to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity' ".^[14] AnAnglican priest from Zambia named Kapya Kaoma was in attendance, and reported on the conference. Ugandan Stephen Langa organised it, and was supported by Lively, who asserted in his workshops that homosexuality was akin to child molestation and bestiality, and causes higher rates of divorce and HIV transmission. Lively's emphasis was on the cohesion of the African family, that he said was being threatened by "homosexuals looking to recruit youth into their ranks". According to Kaoma, during the conference, one of the thousands of Ugandans in attendance announced, "[The parliament] feels it is necessary to draft a new law that deals comprehensively with the issue of homosexuality and...takes into account the international gay agenda... Right now there is a proposal that a new law be drafted."^[18]"

[Jingthing]

I think Ugandan prison is not a happy or a gay place to be for the rest of your life. Watch God Loves Uganda for information about how American far right wing Christian fundamentalist fanatics have influenced Uganda and other African nations towards these extremist anti-gay laws. These same American hate groups working under the cover of religion are active globally, in Russia and no doubt in Thailand as well.

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The Uganda laws regarding homosexuals are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed "unnatural sex" among local Ugandan people. "Christian fundamentalist" have nothing to do with these laws.

I suggest following CURRENT events about this. The TOPIC here is about the RECENT radically extreme anti-gay persecution laws. Absolutely nothing to do with Britain. Arguably a lot to do with a certain type of Americans. In my view, very dangerous Americans. Time for the world to wake up about his. The world that cares about HUMAN RIGHTS that is. The part of the world that either supports or doesn't care about a minority group being hounded down and killed based on irrational HATE will of course probably do nothing. History repeating itself again.

Lively is not the only US evangelical who has fanned the flames of anti-gay sentiment in Uganda. As they lose ground at home, where public opinion and law are rapidly shifting in favor of gay equality, religious conservatives have increasingly turned their attention to Africa. And Uganda, with its large Christian population, has been particularly fertile ground for their crusade. Journalist(and past Mother Jones contributor) Jeff Sharlethas reported at length on the Family, a politically connected US-based ministry, which promotes hard-line social policies in the East African nation.

But, according to Ugandan gay rights activists, Lively has played an unparalleled role in fostering the climate of hate that gave rise to Uganda's anti-gay law. "The bill is essentially his creation," says Frank Mugisha, director of Sexual Minorities Uganda, a coalition of gay rights organizations. Mugisha's group has filed a first-of-its-kindlawsuit in US federal court, accusing Lively of international crimes against humanity on the grounds that he and his Ugandan allies allegedly conspired to deprive gay Ugandans of basic human rights.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda

Edited June 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[sean in udon]

The legislation "runs counter to universal human rights and complicates our bilateral relationship," the White House said, renewing calls for the law to be repealed.

I don't like Uganda's new law on gays.

I don't like the bible 'cos it's a joke (everything created in 6 days and God has a day off - yeah, right).

Although the parables of Jesus making interesting stories for kids and when I was a kid, the Hollywood movie interpretations of biblical stories were awesome.

I don't like the koran because I'm an infidel.

And as for the White House bleating about human rights, IMO that is a particularly sick joke. Guantanamo Bay is one of the most public abuses of human rights by any nation.

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[Jingthing]

So protest about that on another thread. This one has zilch to do with Guatmo.

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[smokie36]

good for Uganda ..humaity has been corrupted enough

Do enlighten us with your compassionate and progressive views. We are all waiting for your infinite wisdom and deep humanity.

His comment was moronic and I suspect his IQ struggles to hit three figures.....not that there is anything wrong with that...throw him a banana!

[folium]

10%? As I said they'll get by. They should target the muslim states if they are genuine,

I find it interesting that people can actually support the persecution of others. I have trouble understanding why someone would suggest that a Christian group should be encouraged to look for support from a Muslim country so that they can continue to mistreat a group of people.

Unbelievable. And disappointing.

...but hardly surprising...

[CMNightRider]

I think Ugandan prison is not a happy or a gay place to be for the rest of your life. Watch God Loves Uganda for information about how American far right wing Christian fundamentalist fanatics have influenced Uganda and other African nations towards these extremist anti-gay laws. These same American hate groups working under the cover of religion are active globally, in Russia and no doubt in Thailand as well.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Uganda laws regarding homosexuals are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed "unnatural sex" among local Ugandan people. "Christian fundamentalist" have nothing to do with these laws.

I suggest following CURRENT events about this. The TOPIC here is about the RECENT radically extreme anti-gay persecution laws. Absolutely nothing to do with Britain. Arguably a lot to do with a certain type of Americans. In my view, very dangerous Americans. Time for the world to wake up about his. The world that cares about HUMAN RIGHTS that is. The part of the world that either supports or doesn't care about a minority group being hounded down and killed based on irrational HATE will of course probably do nothing. History repeating itself again.

Lively is not the only US evangelical who has fanned the flames of anti-gay sentiment in Uganda. As they lose ground at home, where public opinion and law are rapidly shifting in favor of gay equality, religious conservatives have increasingly turned their attention to Africa. And Uganda, with its large Christian population, has been particularly fertile ground for their crusade. Journalist(and past Mother Jones contributor) Jeff Sharlethas reported at length on the Family, a politically connected US-based ministry, which promotes hard-line social policies in the East African nation.

But, according to Ugandan gay rights activists, Lively has played an unparalleled role in fostering the climate of hate that gave rise to Uganda's anti-gay law. "The bill is essentially his creation," says Frank Mugisha, director of Sexual Minorities Uganda, a coalition of gay rights organizations. Mugisha's group has filed a first-of-its-kindlawsuit in US federal court, accusing Lively of international crimes against humanity on the grounds that he and his Ugandan allies allegedly conspired to deprive gay Ugandans of basic human rights.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda

Lol, well there you have it. "Mother Jones journalist" says Lively has influenced Uganda and 31 other African nations to persecute homosexuals. Thank you so much for bringing me up to speed on "CURRENT events." The above mentioned video of Lively speaking about homosexuals is proof he has the ability to influence these African nations? OMG!

[Jingthing]

Correct. The extremist anti-gay persecution laws directly influenced by American fundamentals.

http://www.movieweb.com/movie/god-loves-uganda/pastor-scott-lively

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Edited June 23, 2014 by Jingthing

[sean in udon]

So protest about that on another thread. This one has zilch to do with Guatmo.

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I don't feel the need to start a protest thread about Guantanamo Bay.

My post included a quote from the White House which referenced human rights. My inclusion of Guantanamo Bay also referenced human rights.

This was to make it nice and easy to join the dots together, but for some, it would appear, still too many dots......

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