Mexican football fans homophobic chant allowed at World Cup

[Jingthing]

This chant puto is really a big deal among the Mexicanos. (I've observed this myself.)

I hadn't realized what it really meant until now.

Well I thought it meant prostitute, not specifically gay male prostitute.

Should have known I guess, puto (masculine) vs. puta (feminine).

Perhaps FIFA officials don't either.

If hate chants in general aren't allowed in FIFA football, why is this one?

I guess the answer is really obvious. Gay people don't yet fully rate for the same respect in many arenas.

It seems to me if this kind of slur is allowed, ALL slurs should be allowed.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/06/24/puto_world_cup_what_does_mexico_s_anti_gay_world_cup_soccer_chant_really.html?wpisrc=obinsite

Obviously, we are not going to erase either puta or puto from common parlance. The problem here is that a gay slur is being sanctioned on the world stage by an international organization, a national soccer team, and an entire culture.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Jingthing

[kurnell]

Are gay men paid so badly as footballers that they have to resort to selling their bodies?

[manarak]

JT, the link you posted explains it quite well.

The Mexicans didn't mean it as a slur, they meant it as a tease.

FIFA wants to sanction Mexico for misconduct so that it educates its supporters to behave less offensively.

What more do you want???

[Jingthing]

The article said FIFA is giving Mexico a full pass on this. Where does it say FIFA is taking any action on this? Clearly FIFA would be taking action on this in case of racist chants. That's my point. Racist chants not allowed and punished. Homophobic (mixed with misogyny in this case most likely) allowed. FIFA is playing under the cover of not understanding the meaning of the chant.

Again, from the link:

Mexico, Latin America, their sports industries, and their societies could’ve taken the puto ordeal as a moment to reckon with their homophobia. Instead, they chose to embrace the slur as part of their tradition. We shouldn’t have to depend on a FIFA ruling to know this is wrong, but it sure would have been a step in the right direction.

What do I want? EQUAL treatment by FIFA for racism and homophobia. Either allowing both or disallowing both would be that result. Homophobia REALLY is as hurtful as racism ... but much of the world doesn't seem to get that yet.

BTW, I wish Mexico great success in the World Cup. While it is true that the USA is the most disliked team by Mexicans in the World Cup, if Mexico makes it further than the USA, I would be rooting for them big time. (American meaning of rooting.)

Edited June 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Are gay men paid so badly as footballers that they have to resort to selling their bodies?

Hard to say. Coming out in big time football is not recommendable.

[GeForce]

From what I observed in NYC every second word out of a Mexicans month was "Puto" They call each other that all day....... There obsessed with the word and tabasco sauce, they even put it on there breakfast bacon egg and cheese sandwich.

Mexicans are easily amused....

"Amigo, amigo give us the Tabasco puto"

[Jingthing]

Not disagreeing with that about the Mexican cultural tendency towards potty mouth. But the world cup is a big stage and FIFA enforces rules about other kinds of slurs. That's the point.

[tominbkk]

Having spent time in my youth in Mexico, I can confirm that a majority of the guys there may claim not to be gay but are verrrrry flexible in their sexuality, especially when drunk.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[Jingthing]

Having spent time in my youth in Mexico, I can confirm that a majority of the guys there may claim not to be gay but are verrrrry flexible in their sexuality, especially when drunk.

Well, in Mexico being on top sexually in MSM is a macho thing and not necessarily labelled gay. Difference again between MSM and gay sexual IDENTITY.

[tominbkk]

Having spent time in my youth in Mexico, I can confirm that a majority of the guys there may claim not to be gay but are verrrrry flexible in their sexuality, especially when drunk.

Well, in Mexico being on top sexually in MSM is a macho thing and not necessarily labelled gay. Difference again between MSM and gay sexual IDENTITY.

You'd be very surprised how many macho guys when sober became otherwise after some cerveza and tequila!

[Jingthing]

Having spent time in my youth in Mexico, I can confirm that a majority of the guys there may claim not to be gay but are verrrrry flexible in their sexuality, especially when drunk.

Well, in Mexico being on top sexually in MSM is a macho thing and not necessarily labelled gay. Difference again between MSM and gay sexual IDENTITY.

You'd be very surprised how many macho guys when sober became otherwise after some cerveza and tequila!

Not so surprised but the machos might knife you if you told people what they did (if they bottomed).

[Jingthing]

Just add soundtrack:

[rgs2001uk]

Please explain to me JT, what is homophobic about this chant?

Sorry I dont speak Spanish, I know nothing of the nuances of Spanish language.

If these chants were directed towards Sepp Blater or Platini, yes I would agree with them, they are both prostitutes.

If the Mexicans had been chanting "rent boy" would that have been homophobic or accurate?

Jeez, talk about looking for something that doesnt exist (except only in your mind), there is nothing to report here, please move on.

[Jingthing]

It exists. It's not in my mind ... this puto thing is now an international controversy. I realize some people don't think gay people should ever complain about slurs ... but that's not realistic. Should blacks not complain? Should Jews or Arabs not complain? Why do some people, gay and straight, think gay people should just shut up and take it? Do you imagine there is something wrong with us, that we lack self respect of OTHER minority groups who have been subject to hate speech? Again, why is this allowed and racist chants not allowed? Nobody can answer that except that it is a double standard. Would anyone argue racist chants should be allowed? I didn't think so.

http://www.mtv.com/news/510070/rappers-molotov-court-controversy-with-fiery-lyrics/

I can assure you the Mexican fans do NOT mean friend! It is worth noting that Mexican Spanish is a strong dialect and varies a lot from other nationalities of Spanish.

“Puto,” translated into English, can mean either “friend” or “faggot,” a derogatory term for
gay people. In turn, the gay community has reacted strongly against the song and
Molotov have been forced to defend their reputation.

The puto thing is not only about football, BTW,

Yes, Mexicans are total potty mouths (in that they totally surpass the English) sorry but that's the truth, but this is about FIFA enforcement which SHOULD be FAIR.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[David48]

It exists. It's not in my mind ... this puto thing is now an international controversy.

'international controversy' ... hardly ...

The link the OP provided is from MTV.

I read it, no link to the Soccer World Cup whatsoever.

Here is the reality ...

Mexico cleared by Fifa over alleged homophobic chants by World Cup fans.

The fans’ shouts of “puto” are commonplace in Mexican football when the opposing goalkeeper takes a goal-kick ...

“The Fifa disciplinary committee has decided that the incident in question is not considered insulting in this specific contest. All charges against the Mexican FA have been dismissed.”

The Guardian

Is FIFA scared of making hard decisions ... NO.

They just banned a world class footballer for 4 months and a number of International fixures for an on field incidient.

That loss of their lead stricker will almost certainly spell doom for that Countries chances going forward.

A weaker FIFA would have delayed that decision till after the World Cup had finished.

[ToddWeston]

It exists. It's not in my mind ... this puto thing is now an international controversy.

'international controversy' ... hardly ...

The link the OP provided is from MTV.

I read it, no link to the Soccer World Cup whatsoever.

Here is the reality ...

Mexico cleared by Fifa over alleged homophobic chants by World Cup fans.

The fans shouts of puto are commonplace in Mexican football when the opposing goalkeeper takes a goal-kick ...

The Fifa disciplinary committee has decided that the incident in question is not considered insulting in this specific contest. All charges against the Mexican FA have been dismissed.

The Guardian

Is FIFA scared of making hard decisions ... NO.

They just banned a world class footballer for 4 months and a number of International fixures for an on field incidient.

That loss of their lead stricker will almost certainly spell doom for that Countries chances going forward.

A weaker FIFA would have delayed that decision till after the World Cup had finished.

Thanks David48 for clearing that up, I'm not that bothered by name calling anyway so it wouldn't have mattered either way, I suppose the sensitive PC folks always want something to bitch and moan about.

Now back to football.

[sustento]

Isn't it wonderful that we have someone watching our back for all those worldwide anti-gay remarks?

[ToddWeston]

Isn't it wonderful that we have someone watching our back for all those worldwide anti-gay remarks?

I'm happy it didn't get to the protest and boycott stage, I love my mojitos

[Jingthing]

Isn't it wonderful that we have someone watching our back for all those worldwide anti-gay remarks?

More wonderful than accepting double standards by FIFA ... slurs about sexuality OK, slurs about race not OK.

I suggest thinking about this another way.

Suppose FIFA enforced against homophobic chants but ALLOWED racist chants.

Can you imagine any self respecting persons of that targeted race considering that fair FIFA enforcement and joking about it?

It would be different if any and all kinds of hateful chants were allowed. But they are most certainly not.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Isn't it wonderful that we have someone watching our back for all those worldwide anti-gay remarks?

I'm happy it didn't get to the protest and boycott stage, I love my mojitos

Mojitos are Cuban. Not Mexican in the slightest. Nobody is talking about protests or boycotts. Only consistent enforcement by FIFA of BOTH racist AND homophobic fan behavior.

[ToddWeston]

Isn't it wonderful that we have someone watching our back for all those worldwide anti-gay remarks?

I'm happy it didn't get to the protest and boycott stage, I love my mojitos

Mojitos are Cuban. Not Mexican in the slightest. Nobody is talking about protests or boycotts. Only consistent enforcement by FIFA of BOTH racist AND homophobic fan behavior.

You're right, been to Cuba so many times - memory leak I suppose however the Mexican place I frequent in BKK does makes lovely mojito.

As for the rest - sticks and bones.

[David48]

Isn't it wonderful that we have someone watching our back for all those worldwide anti-gay remarks?

More wonderful than accepting double standards by FIFA ... slurs about sexuality OK, slurs about race not OK.

OP ... there is only your voice supporting an untenable stance, there is no chorus here on the Forum.

There are no double standards from FIFA on this matter.

They looked at it, they reviewed it, they dismissed it.

Case closed.

[Jingthing]

For those who aren't apologists for FIFA's hypocritical stance on hate speech chants, I now offer some more info about the Mexican puto football chant controversy:

http://themexicanlabyrinth.com/

Puto is understood in different ways across Latin America, but in Mexico it translates as a male prostitute or homosexual, and carries strong connotations of weakness and cowardice.

...


Yet Jonny Rico, of soccerly sees FIFA’s attitude as inappropriate.

“If FIFA was clearly against homophobia they would have already acted against Russia and several Middle Eastern countries” he said. Such countries “have some strict anti-homosexual laws that clearly discriminate against homosexuals. Instead of taking a clear stance against them, FIFA has awarded Russia and a Middle Eastern country (Qatar) the next editions of the FIFA World Cup”.

CONAPRED, the Mexican federal body charged with tackling discrimination, roundly condemned the use of the word at soccer matches, saying: “Seeking to eliminate this practice is not trying to stifle free expression, but avoid the normalization of sexism, machismo and homophobia, understanding that the full exercise of all freedom has to be done in respect to the rights of third parties, without discrimination”.

...
A twitter campaign has started: #GritemosCorruptosEnLugarDePuto (shout “corrupt” instead of “puto”) with the aim of altering the chant. The suggested new word “corruptos”, is a response to the perceived hypocrisy of FIFA.

Right on! FIFA made the WRONG decision here. Totally hypocritical. The Mexicans will still do their anti-gay chant. That's what they do. This is on FIFA for their double standard on hate chants.

BTW, there is NO WAY the puto chant controversy is over even after Mexico's performance in this year's World Cup is over. That is because the chant is massively popular in Mexico (and also among the many millions of Mexicans in the USA). Mexico is a country that is both macho/homophobic which ALSO features a gay civil rights tolerant government and some gay marriage rights. The controversy in Mexico will continue and the controversy when Mexico plays internationally will continue as long as this chant is popular. OK, I'm a realist ... I expect now that it is so visible it will at least in the short term become much MORE popular.

Another link for those who bizarrely think this thing isn't for real:

http://www.outsports.com/2014/6/23/5832904/gay-slur-mexico-croatia-world-cup-fifa-puto-espn

ESPN repeatedly broadcasts audio of gay slur during Mexico v. Croatia World Cup match

Mario, a gay Mexican, takes strong offense to the word, as he wrote in a comment on the original Outsports story:

"As a Mexican who lives in Mexico I can tell you that Puto is used as a derogatory term for gay people. 'Puto' means male whore, as a man who sleeps with other men for money. I can tell you this first hand, since I am an LGBT person and I have been used this words against me many times.

"Yes, the word 'puto' can mean coward, but that's in the sense of being unmanly, i.e. gay. And in the context of football, what the crowds are chanting translates literally as 'faggot.' Now imagine that word being chanted around the world each time a goal kick happens."

FIFA investigated Mexico for use of the chant but on Monday said it is not a gay slur in the context it is used,

This meme is making the rounds on Mexican social media, which points out the offensive nature of the "puto," despite what its defenders and FIFA say:

"Puto el que lo lea" translates to: "Whoever reads this is a fag."

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[David48]

^^ Selective quoting ... who would have thought that ...

Also from that same article mentioned in the post above ...

“the word is in no way used as an attack on the homosexual community, at all. It’s used like the word “turro” would be in Argentina, for example, a guy who is…y’know… a wretch, a loser, a bad-vibe guy. It’s not an insult to a homosexual”.

Echoing this response, many people have taken to forums and twitter to defend the football chant, claiming that it is not homophobic."

--------------------------------------------------

As for the second quote ... it comes for the organisation entitled 'outsports'

Let's look at the company called 'Outsports' ... oh yes, it's a company ... not an organisation dedicated to promotion of sports ... a company.

"Outsports is a California-based media company whose largest holding is Outsports.com

Outsports was purchased by Vox Media in 2013, and incorporated into its sports website SB Nation"

Wiki

So to quote a media company as facts about how the LGBT feel about this is fancifull.

But again, the quotes from that article are selective.

Also from that article from the Media Company Outsports included this ...

"David, a Mexican who defends the chant saying its not homophobic ..."

David said the remark was a cheer not meant to offend:

"This yell is common but it is not used as an homophobic remark. It is used as a way to disagree with and distract the opposite team. It's like yelling whenever a golfer is about to hit the ball, or a basketball player is doing free throws. This is why it is done exactly when the goalkeeper is about to hit the ball, the fans only want to make sure the opposite team feels the pressure of them as a goal kick takes place, Even our commentators remark on it but they called it a ''war cry.' "

.

[David48]

^^ ... opps, looks liked we've dropped over to a new page.

Referring to this post from the OP ... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/737539-mexican-football-fans-homophobic-chant-allowed-at-world-cup/?p=8026924

[Jingthing]

JT start one of your polls & let's see if anyone really gives a toss.

No thanks. Also, if you don't care, nobody is forcing you to post on this topic anyway. You are welcome to start a poll of your own. If you don't know how, I can provide technical support via PM. Cheers.

BTW, the GOVERNMENT of MEXICO considers this chant homophobic. I think they would know what Mexican Spanish means, si?

http://soccer.fusion.net/2014/06/23/fifa-wont-sanction-mexico-for-puto-chant/

It means “man whore” in Spanish, but is also used in Mexico to insult gay men.

...

Critics of the chant have called on Mexican fans to stop using the four letter word, arguing that it is a homophobic chant that depicts gay people as “lesser” human beings. Mexico’s National Commission to Prevent Discrimination even issued a scathing statement against the chant, and urged FIFA to take measures that would stop its use. According the agency the word reflects “disrespect and rejection,” of the gay community and “stigmatizes,” its members.

This link from the Mexican governmental agency is in Spanish but can be easily translated via google chrome:

http://www.conapred.org.mx/index.php?contenido=noticias&id=4934&id_opcion=108&op=214

Bad google translation of two snippets:

In the case of World Cup being held in Brazil has drawn international attention, particularly FIFA itself, homophobic screams Mexican fans expressed strongly in the Mexican national team matches. These homophobic expressions are not part of a harmless daily practice of our society in different public spaces.

To say that its use is a custom or tradition, which is independent of those who run the sport, or to pay the ticket can have any behavior in the stadium under a freedom of expression misunderstood as unlimited plus is wrong irresponsible, and does not contribute to the respect for human rights and dignity.

...

Football is won with goals, not discrimination.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

JT start one of your polls & let's see if anyone really gives a toss.

No thanks. Also, if you don't care, nobody is forcing you to post on this topic anyway. You are welcome to start a poll of your own. If you don't know how, I can provide technical support via PM. Cheers.

You're correct I don't care about this issue because it done and over, David48 kindly put the issue to rest. What I do care about is this sub forum has once again gone negative & the world is against us poor gays.

[Jingthing]

JT start one of your polls & let's see if anyone really gives a toss.

No thanks. Also, if you don't care, nobody is forcing you to post on this topic anyway. You are welcome to start a poll of your own. If you don't know how, I can provide technical support via PM. Cheers.

You're correct I don't care about this issue because it done and over, David48 kindly put the issue to rest. What I do care about is this sub forum has once again gone negative & the world is against us poor gays.

If you want to put your head in the sand about what's happening in the real world, that's your business. The controversy continues. FIFA has indeed made a decision. FIFA is not God. They make good and bad decisions. This is a bad decision because it clearly reflects a double standard valuing anti-gay speech as OK. Again, if you don't like a thread's topic, don't read or post to it. If you don't like my POV, you have the choice to use the IGNORE feature. Simple, yes? I have every right to express my POV here just as you do. It matters not if I have a minority view on this forum. It's not an election. It's a discussion forum.

All of the world is not for or against gay people. It's a mixed bag. I applaud the GOVERNMENT of MEXICO for taking a strong stand against the homophobic behavior of their team's fans. I CONDEMN FIFA for their hypocritical double standard ruling.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[muffy]

All should be allowed it is football not PC ball.