Ratchawhitee rd late at night, weird goings on.

[Chiengmaijoe]

The bars along that road, including the reggae bar zone are often, of late, being simultaneously closed at about midnight or thereabouts. The result of this is that there are even more people walking or parked in the middle of the road. This evening I drove along there at about 1am and a group of about ten guys were standing, chatting and drinking on the road completely blocking one side. This was almost opposite the Chiang Mai saloon so it's narrow because of cars parked on both sides.

With tuktuks coming in the opposite direction, and them blocking my lane I gave a little toot on the car horn and they hardly batted an eyelid. When I finally stopped next to them they looked around and indicated that I should, in effect, overtake them! One of the guys had a bottle at his feet on the floor and was obviously planning on being there for a while. I did suggest that maybe they might like to continue their little gathering on the pavement but that didn't seem to be an option. They were quite happy and contented where they were.

Bearing in mind that at that time of night the likelihood of a driver being drunk is quite reasonable, has anyone heard of accidents along that road because of this, or maybe even altercations?. I'm not sure how some Thais might react to the surly, dismissive behaviour of the likes of the guys I came across, but it could get nasty.

Another interesting thing about this area is how people will, quite literally, sit in the gutter drinking a beer, having a smoke, happily chatting away, bless 'em.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Chiengmaijoe

[PostmanPat]

Funny you mention this. Last night I left the UN Irish at 10.45 after the quiz, in quite a hurry to get home to watch the Football, and had a bit of a problem even at that time with traffic parked both sides, and Zoe Bar customers already wandering into the road despite traffic trying to move up and down. Added to the both sides parking which is normal, was an accumulation of tuk tuks (who park wherever they like!), motor bikes sticking out everywhere (it seems riders have to park like a few yards from where theyre going!) and quite a few vendors food stalls with customers already standing in the road itself.

It was as though Ratwithi is now regarded as a late night walking zone, which it isnt! I guess "the boys in blue" or whatever colour, will deal with it?

[eyecatcher]

You are probably too old remember that this is what young revellers do.

And no different to 5pm in uk when a footy match finishes, so weird how 30000 people just end up all over the road,chatting,drinking,blocking traffic,fights.

What's the big deal?

[true blue]

must admit that road is busy once yellow empties out,it clears out by 1.30 traffic and people moved to spicy.

[femi fan]

Hardly weird. People wanting to drink and socialise, doing it on the road due to archaic 'laws' or interpretations of laws that turf them out of their pubs and bars at the ridiculous time of midnight.

And tut tut, parking on both sides. That's against the law. Arrest the drivers, clamp their wheels.

"Another interesting thing about this area is how people will, quite literally, sit in the gutter drinking a beer, having a smoke, happily chatting away, bless 'em."

Having fun and enjoying themselves, who cares where you are when having fun. Especially when the brain is addled with booze, it really doesn't care then.

[PlanetX]

It was also the US Germany game. It has just finished.

CM Saloon and Sheryles (AKA Holland House) was standing room only on both sides of the street. As soon as the game ended hundreds of people were rushed out of the CM Saloon bar with their drinks that they had purchased in hand.

It was either ditch your new beer or drink it outside.

It is not a new or strange occurrence - its the WC and people are trying to watch the games in English and with a crowd.

Edited June 27, 2014 by PlanetX

[Chiengmaijoe]

Hardly weird. People wanting to drink and socialise, doing it on the road due to archaic 'laws' or interpretations of laws that turf them out of their pubs and bars at the ridiculous time of midnight.

And tut tut, parking on both sides. That's against the law. Arrest the drivers, clamp their wheels.

"Another interesting thing about this area is how people will, quite literally, sit in the gutter drinking a beer, having a smoke, happily chatting away, bless 'em."

Having fun and enjoying themselves, who cares where you are when having fun. Especially when the brain is addled with booze, it really doesn't care then.

I mentioned the parking on both sides not because it is illegal, which I was unaware of, but to highlight the fact that the road is consequentially narrow. The only point of my post was to query as to whether this behaviour has resulted in accidents, or possibly violence because of the flippant attitude the revellers had to drivers merely wanting to get by. I thought it was rude, but I could envisage some drivers, particularly if they've had a drink or two, getting angry.

Normally people walk along the middle of the road, heading to Spicy, and if there is traffic coming in the opposite direction a toot on the horn is enough for one or two of them to move over, but last night they were camped out. The fact that they were ejected from CM Saloon and Sheryle's probably explains it, thanks Planetx.

I don't know when you got your parking ticket , clamping or whatever Femi Fan, but it obviously still riles you. You really do need to get over it, it's beginning to make you irrational and paranoid. At a guess, you got your ticket on Ratchawithee rd and I just touched a raw nerve. Oops.

[northernjohn]

OP

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time driving around at that time of night.

Are you a Taxi Driver?

Edited June 27, 2014 by northernjohn

[bigbamboo]

Funny you mention this. Last night I left the UN Irish at 10.45 after the quiz, in quite a hurry to get home to watch the Football, and had a bit of a problem even at that time with traffic parked both sides, and Zoe Bar customers already wandering into the road despite traffic trying to move up and down. Added to the both sides parking which is normal, was an accumulation of tuk tuks (who park wherever they like!), motor bikes sticking out everywhere (it seems riders have to park like a few yards from where theyre going!) and quite a few vendors food stalls with customers already standing in the road itself.

It was as though Ratwithi is now regarded as a late night walking zone, which it isnt! I guess "the boys in blue" or whatever colour, will deal with it?

Really?

How did you get on in the quiz?

[Chiengmaijoe]

OP

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time driving around at that time of night.

Are you a Taxi Driver?

No, but if someone flags me down I might stop.

[harrry]

OP

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time driving around at that time of night.

Are you a Taxi Driver?

I am more worried about whether he was sober.

[PostmanPat]

Funny you mention this. Last night I left the UN Irish at 10.45 after the quiz, in quite a hurry to get home to watch the Football, and had a bit of a problem even at that time with traffic parked both sides, and Zoe Bar customers already wandering into the road despite traffic trying to move up and down. Added to the both sides parking which is normal, was an accumulation of tuk tuks (who park wherever they like!), motor bikes sticking out everywhere (it seems riders have to park like a few yards from where theyre going!) and quite a few vendors food stalls with customers already standing in the road itself.

It was as though Ratwithi is now regarded as a late night walking zone, which it isnt! I guess "the boys in blue" or whatever colour, will deal with it?

Really?

How did you get on in the quiz?

My teams performance was about as good as Englands at the World Cup! Anticipation of success followed by abject failure!

[eyecatcher]

Funny you mention this. Last night I left the UN Irish at 10.45 after the quiz, in quite a hurry to get home to watch the Football, and had a bit of a problem even at that time with traffic parked both sides, and Zoe Bar customers already wandering into the road despite traffic trying to move up and down. Added to the both sides parking which is normal, was an accumulation of tuk tuks (who park wherever they like!), motor bikes sticking out everywhere (it seems riders have to park like a few yards from where theyre going!) and quite a few vendors food stalls with customers already standing in the road itself.

It was as though Ratwithi is now regarded as a late night walking zone, which it isnt! I guess "the boys in blue" or whatever colour, will deal with it?

Really?

How did you get on in the quiz?

That was my question as well

........should have asked Greg to go out into the street and tell everyone to "shut the <removed> up"

[Oscar2]

Hardly weird. People wanting to drink and socialise, doing it on the road due to archaic 'laws' or interpretations of laws that turf them out of their pubs and bars at the ridiculous time of midnight.

And tut tut, parking on both sides. That's against the law. Arrest the drivers, clamp their wheels.

"Another interesting thing about this area is how people will, quite literally, sit in the gutter drinking a beer, having a smoke, happily chatting away, bless 'em."

Having fun and enjoying themselves, who cares where you are when having fun. Especially when the brain is addled with booze, it really doesn't care then.

I mentioned the parking on both sides not because it is illegal, which I was unaware of, but to highlight the fact that the road is consequentially narrow. The only point of my post was to query as to whether this behaviour has resulted in accidents, or possibly violence because of the flippant attitude the revellers had to drivers merely wanting to get by. I thought it was rude, but I could envisage some drivers, particularly if they've had a drink or two, getting angry.

Normally people walk along the middle of the road, heading to Spicy, and if there is traffic coming in the opposite direction a toot on the horn is enough for one or two of them to move over, but last night they were camped out. The fact that they were ejected from CM Saloon and Sheryle's probably explains it, thanks Planetx.

I don't know when you got your parking ticket , clamping or whatever Femi Fan, but it obviously still riles you. You really do need to get over it, it's beginning to make you irrational and paranoid. At a guess, you got your ticket on Ratchawithee rd and I just touched a raw nerve. Oops.

it seems he absolutely hates any form of authority and can't stand rules and/or laws. i don't like certain things here or in other parts of the world, but i just follow the rules/laws of the country i'm in and don't get irrational or lose any sleep over it.

[arunsakda]

OP

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time driving around at that time of night.

Are you a Taxi Driver?

Travis Bickle: I... I just want to work long hours. What's moonlighting?

[Chiengmaijoe]

OP

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time driving around at that time of night.

Are you a Taxi Driver?

I am more worried about whether he was sober.

Thanks for your concern, but there is no need for you to worry. I do enjoy a drink, and have a couple most nights, but I never, ever get drunk.

[femi fan]

I don't know when you got your parking ticket , clamping or whatever Femi Fan, but it obviously still riles you. You really do need to get over it, it's beginning to make you irrational and paranoid. At a guess, you got your ticket on Ratchawithee rd and I just touched a raw nerve. Oops.

You got one thing right and one thing wrong. It did happen in that very same road, so you are spot on there! It does not still rile me. I accepted it very quickly and moved on in my life. it was about four or five years ago i would think. But as you know it is most relevant to the other thread we've both been on, hence me bringing it up. The clamping doesn't rile me in the slightest (i see it all as a game), but farangs telling farangs to 'follow the law' in a country where this is not that important to do, does rile me a wee bit. Anglo-american cultures are based on laws and following the rule of law, while thai culture is based on having an easy-easy life. If a law gets in the way, ignore it. My kind of country thank you.

Pefectly rational and of sound mind thank you!

[femi fan]

it seems he absolutely hates any form of authority and can't stand rules and/or laws. i don't like certain things here or in other parts of the world, but i just follow the rules/laws of the country i'm in and don't get irrational or lose any sleep over it.

I don't like silly laws. Useful ones are fine by me.

You clearly had a different young adult experience to me. We are all shaped by our formative years. You like to blindly follow the laws just because they are the laws. I like to ignore laws that i don't like so long as i cause no harm to anybody. Neither of us loses any sleep over our choices.

[Ulysses G.]

If a law gets in the way, ignore it. My kind of country thank you.

When it comes to victimless crimes. I pretty much concur.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[northernjohn]

OP

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time driving around at that time of night.

Are you a Taxi Driver?

I am more worried about whether he was sober.

I think so. He spends to much time in the car. for some reason I don't take him to bee the type to just drink in a car.

[Chiengmaijoe]

I don't know when you got your parking ticket , clamping or whatever Femi Fan, but it obviously still riles you. You really do need to get over it, it's beginning to make you irrational and paranoid. At a guess, you got your ticket on Ratchawithee rd and I just touched a raw nerve. Oops.

You got one thing right and one thing wrong. It did happen in that very same road, so you are spot on there! It does not still rile me. I accepted it very quickly and moved on in my life. it was about four or five years ago i would think. But as you know it is most relevant to the other thread we've both been on, hence me bringing it up. The clamping doesn't rile me in the slightest (i see it all as a game), but farangs telling farangs to 'follow the law' in a country where this is not that important to do, does rile me a wee bit. Anglo-american cultures are based on laws and following the rule of law, while thai culture is based on having an easy-easy life. If a law gets in the way, ignore it. My kind of country thank you.

Pefectly rational and of sound mind thank you!

Thank God for that. I must admit I do find the difference interesting, but it doesn't rile me. Most people would like to pick and choose the rules they follow, but the difference between here and other developed countries, east and west, is that there isn't much law enforcement. It's not easy disregarding laws that are firmly enforced.

Instinctively, people are much the same, but if you're brought up in a country where rules are strictly enforced, and the need for them is constantly reinforced , then in effect you become brainwashed. If Thailand had had years of TV campaigns about road safety and helmet laws etc, they would be like westerners now are. Thais aren't much different they're just at a different stage of development. We already have smoking bans here, and they have pretty much been accepted and alcohol restrictions will soon follow, as will health and safety and whatever.

[Chiengmaijoe]

If a law gets in the way, ignore it. My kind of country thank you.

When it comes to victimless crimes. I pretty much concur.

So long as you can get away with it, of course.

[Mapguy]

If a law gets in the way, ignore it. My kind of country thank you.

When it comes to victimless crimes. I pretty much concur.

I get the gist of what you mean, but what, to you, are "victimless crimes? Some seemingly harmless actions may have a broader social impact than you might suppose.

To give a simple example, smoking was generally socially tolerated. Gradually, this has changed over the past few decades from place to place. Now it is a "crime" to smoke in many places, and people are increasingly sensitive to not smoking out other people.

Now, except in places like the Afghan countryside, smoking is recognized as harmful in two ways. The really significant damage is to the smoker, certainly, but there is also "collateral damage," in second-hand smoke. It is called air pollution, and it has a harmful effort on others as well as the smoker. The other way that comes to mind is that, in many ways, smoking is inversely corrolated to income. Heavier smokers tend to be poorer. Such people tend more, where it is available, to depend upon public health services. So society becomes their victim. Everyone's taxes.

A lot of minor laws seem to develop from inconveniences that some individuals cause others, even parking offenses. Ever notice the basic problems with parking on narrow sois in Chiang Mai, especailly at corners when turning traffic must go (head-on) inot the wrong lane?

To return to OPs story, a few sots sitting on a curb drinking beer, or a minor crowd, late at night aren't really much bother (except, probably, to neighbors), but there is potential for much more, unfortunately. Am I being silly? Recall English football terrace fan hooliganism of recent years that was actually exported to the Continent! Normally, if self-policing is lacking, some official policing can avert further difficulties, but a certain courtesy for others (such as to passing auto traffic when you are drinking in the middle of the road) seems lacking within the scope of adolesecent social consciousness of some people.

So, UG and femi fan, let us hear more about "victimless crimes." And the onerous nature of social repression.

By the way, I thought Germany thoroughly outplayed the USA. It was interesting to see (given the history of the American coach) that both teams played the same sort of game, but I think that the Germans played much better. The nasty accidental head-to-head collision of two American strikers seemed representative of the flailing American offense. If anything was a surprise, it was that the score was so close!

Edited June 27, 2014 by Mapguy

[femi fan]

If a law gets in the way, ignore it. My kind of country thank you.

When it comes to victimless crimes. I pretty much concur.

Of course. Goes without saying that 'no harm done to anyone else' is a prerequisite.

However, many western people want everything to run according to all rules and all laws. They gave up on the notion of proper freedom, and that is their free will and choice. But when they try to impose their love of laws on others, especially over here in thailand where thai people centre their culture around other values, then they are getting out of hand!

[Ulysses G.]

So, UG and femi fan, let us hear more about "victimless crimes."

Who said anything about smoking in public? Second hand smoke can makes someone a victim. I am talking about things like prostitution between consenting adults, possession of soft dugs such as marijuana, adult pornography and gambling. Of course, one can trump up phony justifications about why these are the government's business, but they are not. The truth is that these are victimless crimes and I have no problem with ignoring such unjust laws.

[femi fan]

mapguy...

The cigarette argument that you present is spurious and has no merit standing alone. I agree about the damage the smoke does to all who are exposed to it, but i would suggest the second-hand smoke damage to anybody's health is reallly rather minimal when compared to what the combustion engine contributes to the air we depend upon for our very lives.

Then of course there's the energy, food resources, and water resources required to feed the cattle to provide the burgers. Estimates say that in the US about half of all of those are used up rearing cattle, not to mention the crimes against the Amazon rainforest which is largely cut down for beef production. Not to mention the crimes that humans commit against living animals (life forms every bit as much as humans)… something like 75 billion animals slaughered in the US alone per year so humans can eat their meat (figures for ten years ago).

Eating foods like refined sugar and flour will cause, through years of accumulation like cigarette smoking, terrible illness and disease, which is dealt with by hospitals and taxpayers.

Then there's the massive bills footed by taxpayers in places like the US and UK whose governments love to wage war so that their corporations can get huge contracts making the weapons and then rebuliding the infrastructure that said weapons smash up.

I could go on and on and on with heaps more examples. My point is there are myriad ways that one human being imposes themselves on others. It's a fact of life. The only way that you or me or anyone can claim any moral highground is by measuring our personal carbon footprint.

As for victimless crimes that you also mention, there must be hundreds and thousands of them. I say this with confidence because in places like UK and EU countries there are tens of thousands of laws, and many of them are put into place simply as control mechanisms and to encourage sheepleness. Thank you.

Edited June 27, 2014 by femi fan

[femi fan]

Thank God for that. I must admit I do find the difference interesting, but it doesn't rile me. Most people would like to pick and choose the rules they follow, but the difference between here and other developed countries, east and west, is that there isn't much law enforcement. It's not easy disregarding laws that are firmly enforced.

Instinctively, people are much the same, but if you're brought up in a country where rules are strictly enforced, and the need for them is constantly reinforced , then in effect you become brainwashed. If Thailand had had years of TV campaigns about road safety and helmet laws etc, they would be like westerners now are. Thais aren't much different they're just at a different stage of development. We already have smoking bans here, and they have pretty much been accepted and alcohol restrictions will soon follow, as will health and safety and whatever.

I tell you want CMJ, i get a lot of enjoyment when i'm back on trips to england in flouting any and all the laws i disagree with, much more than here. One reason is that i can navigate myself around with a few enshrined rights afforded me compared to here. But the other reason is that there are just so many of the blighters (laws) and so many absolutely ridiculous ones. I get the enjoyment because these laws are so so stupid.

'The law's an ass' was something i used to hear when i was a kid. The question, when this was deemed to be true, was what will one do about it? Challenge it or get on the donkey and ride with it??? You know my choice by now.

Your arugment is a tempting one, but it may fall down. I maintain that the main driving force behind british culture is correctness in behavour, doing things by the rules even if one doesn't like the rules. The rules are there to keep us from chaos and in order. On the other hand the driving force behind thai culture is easy-easy and is much more concerned with not being aggravated by something, not being stressed by something.

As our global world increasingly pushes the european and american culture and values and laws onto the rest of the world, indigenous and local cultures start getting pulled around and prodded and tested. Hence smoking bans here, and the CM fuzz preying on the citizens while breaking the very laws they are apparently supposed to stop from being broken.

[northernjohn]

Thank God for that. I must admit I do find the difference interesting, but it doesn't rile me. Most people would like to pick and choose the rules they follow, but the difference between here and other developed countries, east and west, is that there isn't much law enforcement. It's not easy disregarding laws that are firmly enforced.

Instinctively, people are much the same, but if you're brought up in a country where rules are strictly enforced, and the need for them is constantly reinforced , then in effect you become brainwashed. If Thailand had had years of TV campaigns about road safety and helmet laws etc, they would be like westerners now are. Thais aren't much different they're just at a different stage of development. We already have smoking bans here, and they have pretty much been accepted and alcohol restrictions will soon follow, as will health and safety and whatever.

I tell you want CMJ, i get a lot of enjoyment when i'm back on trips to england in flouting any and all the laws i disagree with, much more than here. One reason is that i can navigate myself around with a few enshrined rights afforded me compared to here. But the other reason is that there are just so many of the blighters (laws) and so many absolutely ridiculous ones. I get the enjoyment because these laws are so so stupid.

'The law's an ass' was something i used to hear when i was a kid. The question, when this was deemed to be true, was what will one do about it? Challenge it or get on the donkey and ride with it??? You know my choice by now.

Your arugment is a tempting one, but it may fall down. I maintain that the main driving force behind british culture is correctness in behavour, doing things by the rules even if one doesn't like the rules. The rules are there to keep us from chaos and in order. On the other hand the driving force behind thai culture is easy-easy and is much more concerned with not being aggravated by something, not being stressed by something.

As our global world increasingly pushes the european and american culture and values and laws onto the rest of the world, indigenous and local cultures start getting pulled around and prodded and tested. Hence smoking bans here, and the CM fuzz preying on the citizens while breaking the very laws they are apparently supposed to stop from being broken.

You are young and can be excused. I remember when smoking in public buildings could often be worse than the air in the street. At three packs a day I can remember being in rooms where I could hardly stand it. Today it is no where near the problem it was.

Not sure about here but back home it was the insurance industry that started off the no smoking in buildings. then the law got on the band wagon.

[limegreenpatato]

Great thread. Totally worth the time writing all that.

[femi fan]

You are young and can be excused. I remember when smoking in public buildings could often be worse than the air in the street. At three packs a day I can remember being in rooms where I could hardly stand it. Today it is no where near the problem it was.

Not sure about here but back home it was the insurance industry that started off the no smoking in buildings. then the law got on the band wagon.

Young?? Not really any more! I recall pubs with smoking in, offices and planes with smoking in and so on.

I will still argue that all the second-hand smoking in the world causes minimal damage when compared to what the combustion of oil does to us.

Interesting point made about the insurance industry. I'm waiting for the same situation to impose itself upon the food and medical industries which are killing so many millions of people far sooner than they need to be killed or die. I believe we're coming quite close to the tipping point where the fantastic profits to be made from beef, sugar, pills is going to be outweighed by the ability for insurance companies to carry the can.

Er, something like that anyway.