What I'd like to see develop in Chiang Rai

[boomerangutang]

A decent library
The current one is small, drab and has few books. US libraries have magazines, e-books, meeting rooms, internet access (C.Rai's used to have internet, but no more).

Hiking and bicycling trails
There are many possibilities, not least; a trail skirting both sides of the Mae Kok river. If there was willingness and cooperation from some local Thai VIP's such trails could wind for miles. Most of the potential trail site is currently fallow and public property.

More and larger parks.
There's a large undeveloped site which already has big trees, which is unused. It's private property, owned by a rich Chinese-Thai family (who else). It has a defunct crematorium on it, so Thais probably think it's haunted. Even so, the city could buy it and have itself a 5 rai lovely natural park downtown. It's 2 Km south from Swensen's on east side of main road, on way to Central.

A 'Creative Center' for budding entrepreneurs.
Stocked with resources, tools and some raw materials. It could be a place where innovative people could develop tangible ideas and inventions, while interacting with like-minded others. Instead of having to invest in expensive tools and work space, some of that would be provided.

Dinosaurs
If there one place in the Chiang Rai region which has any fossils - of any plants or animals? How about a display of interesting rocks or stone tools? Perhaps Chiang Rai never had any interesting plants or animals. I'd find that hard to believe. Thais seem to think that the only history that's significant is about the Royals or Buddhism.

Animals

Could wild deer be re-introduced to rural Chiang Rai? They'd keep down some weeds, which currently grow up to 4 meters. How about monkeys? Granted, they're a pest, to some degree, but they were here a lot earlier than humans, and there is still abundant habitat (including wild fruit trees) for deer and monkeys - if people don't go and kill them - and that's a BIG IF. Another animal we rarely see much of: raptors (birds of prey). How about monitor lizards? There are some wild ones in southern Thailand, but none north of Hua Hin.

[villagefarang]

I admire your passion and enthusiasm for your causes but I just can’t get behind most of them. I think people should be allowed to develop and follow their own path. Your path seems to be tantamount to swimming upstream in a raging river, but while not my cup of tea I am sure it has the potential to build character, so I wish you good luck.

Like so many other things libraries look to me like they may become relics of a bygone age. For younger generations every things seems to have gone digital and they usually have access to a school library if they really want or need one.

With so much open farmland and so many forests, streams, waterfalls and national parks within minutes of our small town I really don’t get your obsession with inner city parks. There is a plethora of places to hike and bike, nearby.

If you re-introduce wild animals they would no doubt eat someone’s crops and soon end up on someone’s dinner plate. People love to hunt, fish and scavenge the local forests for anything remotely edible.

My favorite raptor is the Pied Harrier but they are only here part of the year but there are Kites and others that I see on my rides. Maybe one doesn’t see them so often in town, I don’t know.

As for “Creative Centers” isn’t that what schools and universities are supposed to be?

[rijb]

I'm hoping for a Burger King.

[NotJoeMama]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

[villagefarang]

I'm sure rijb was just trying to be funny.

[boomerangutang]

I admire your passion and enthusiasm for your causes but I just can’t get behind most of them. I think people should be allowed to develop and follow their own path. Your path seems to be tantamount to swimming upstream in a raging river, but while not my cup of tea I am sure it has the potential to build character, so I wish you good luck.

Like so many other things libraries look to me like they may become relics of a bygone age. For younger generations every things seems to have gone digital and they usually have access to a school library if they really want or need one.

Libraries can provide paper books while concurrently adapting to tech advances and still be inspiring places to peruse. If there aren't great books available to peruse, then youngsters won't have much appreciation for books. However, if such books are readily accessible, then they will be appreciated, by some at least.

With so much open farmland and so many forests, streams, waterfalls and national parks within minutes of our small town I really don’t get your obsession with inner city parks. There is a plethora of places to hike and bike, nearby.

Yes, there are some trails and semblances of natural habitat around town. There could be much more, both in town and in outlying areas. It wouldn't cost much to develop trails for hiking and bicycling. Many trails that are passable now are 'hit and miss' and a hiking enthusiast not already familiar with a trail would need a guide, probably paid.

If you re-introduce wild animals they would no doubt eat someone’s crops and soon end up on someone’s dinner plate. People love to hunt, fish and scavenge the local forests for anything remotely edible. That's the 'glass half empty' argument. The 'glass half full' is hoping people won't continue killing animals willy nilly, and instead appreciate wild animals being alive and sharing the region. Just because Thais are generally primitive, in their attitudes against 'wildness' (and spooked by raw nature) doesn't mean they can't change and/or can't come to appreciate raw nature as time rolls by. Even in built-up regions of the US, one can sometimes find flocks of geese foraging in a field, or a group of deer in a suburb. Ok, some cultured plants get eaten, but the trade-off - of having beautiful wild animals, unafraid, in the neighborhood, more than compensates.

My favorite raptor is the Pied Harrier but they are only here part of the year but there are Kites and others that I see on my rides. Maybe one doesn’t see them so often in town, I don’t know.

As for “Creative Centers” isn’t that what schools and universities are supposed to be?

In the US, such 'Creative Centers' (different appellation) are catching on and proving popular and productive. I rather doubt Thai U's are doing much more than taking money from students' parents - to get youngsters from entry point to exit - with a paper diploma in their hands. I'll be glad to be proved wrong.

The things I mentioned would not only improve 'quality of life' for Thai and farang and hill tribers residing here, but would also be a big boost for tourism. Since bringing in money is paramount, that's probably the way to showcase such improvements, when presenting such ideas to someone who could help implement them.

[Longtooth]

I'm hoping for a Burger King.

Have it your way! I would be a regular, but it would have to have some parking available! A not overly large dirt bike and a sense of adventure will let you cover most of the area within a day's ride in about 2 years. I've followed many a road til it was dirt, then a trail, then a dead end path to a bamboo hut. The "mountains" north of the city (northern area of the province) are Chiangrai's natural blessing. The city, pretty much is what it is.

[canuckamuck]

The introduction of deer would be greatly appreciated by the locals. Most of them still remember when there were deer in these parts. and they would love to eat them again. Monkeys? Horrible things. I am happy we don't have to deal with those thieving creatures around here. I have had several conflicts with monkeys in different places, I really dislike them. They are funny in movies only.

Your inner city ideas are good though. Like most places in Thailand Chiang rai really could be improved with some natural areas in the inner city.

Libraries probably would n't fly, but a more high tech approach, some kind of interactive learning center would be great.

Dinosaurs. Well if they were here you would likely know about it. They are a natural tourist attraction and someone would be profiting from it by now. I have never come across any fossils up here and I live in the bush.

Lots of raptors up where I live. we have a few types of owls, some small hawks, and occasional some bigger ones.

A proper hiking trail would be a good tourist draw. There a millions of trails here, but they dead end in most cases. A decently maintained trail running past a few villages would be appreciated by tourists that want to get out and be in real Thailand for a while. Be prepared to see it become a trail for Honda waves early on though.

[ajarnsiam]

I opened this thread hoping to see something interesting, but what I found was:

• A suggestion that Thai libraries should be like those in the US (would OP prefer books in Thai or Lanna or English?);
• A request for more parks. I assume OP must be talking about the CR city area only; CR city is in effect a small conurbation in a huge natural park that stretches for hundreds of miles in every direction (yea even unto Laos and Burma);
• Hiking and biking trails. There must be at least several thousand already;
• A creative centre for budding entrepreneurs. Would the OP be able to participate in such a centre using any of the indigenous spoken languages? Personally I believe creativity and entrepreneurialism are individual characteristics which are hard to legislate for; anyone with a real drive towards creativity or entrepreneurialism will find an outlet anyway. Having said that, some may recall that microfinance was made available a few years ago to support village-level initiatives, and quite a few have been successful;
• Wild animals. Hm, outside of the city in the many vast national parks there is a huge variety of wild animals, including bears and wild cats (any decent tour book or website will list them). It’s a myth that wild animals are “unafraid” of homo sapiens, or even of each other in most cases; and most of us would rightly be scared of many wild animals ;-)

But what was even more disappointing to me were the throwaway comments about Thais being “primitive”, having no sense of history, and the well-worn dig at Chinese Thais.

I’m sure the OP had good intent in his post, but it looks like either a city-dweller’s view of what a rural area should be like, or a “superior” westerner’s view of what those “primitive” Asians should be doing to pull their socks up, or a mixture of both.

[DonaldBattles]

All the nature and human interest things are nice. However, I would like to see the army force the Chiang Rai Police to enforce traffic laws and control the traffic. You never see a policeman doing any of this. The traffic is getting worse by the day. On Sunday on the back road to the mall it was backed up for 1 hour.

They never stop building new bridges that are not needed. Would like to see a major effort to fill the road potholes and

switch from using cold patch tar and gravel to cement. The cold patch lasts for about 2 months.

People hate to go to the city because you can never find a place to park. The spaces are mostly taken up by employees of the business. If they would raise the parking rate to 25 Baht per hour for sure you could find a place to park.

Double parking on both sides of the roads makes it near impossible to pass so you have to stop and wait for a clearing. Why the police won't control the parking is far beyond me other than you never see them doing anything.

The current rate of population increase in Chiang Rai with 1 million Chinese across the river requires city planning, police work and citizens observing the rules of the road and laws. Running red lights, not stopping at stop signs and pulling out into a road without looking is a major cause of accidents.

These things are extremely important to the rapid growth of the population of Chiang Rai.

[richabb1]

how about a driving school

[Chaiwallah]

A good library that could also be a venue for clubs like reading, chess, photography, art, etc. would be very welcome. I also would like to see the rail line extended from Chiang Mai to CR. I think it has to happen sometime.

[DonaldBattles]

The rail line will be from Lampang to Chiang Rai city and Chiang Kong. This is in the budget that the army has approved. We could use a good highway between Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai.

We are suffering from lack of infrastructure based on the current rate of growth.

Anything new built downtown would be wasted money as you could never find a place to park. Better to move the government office buildings out of the center of town. New infrastructure should be built where there roads and parking places along with police enforcing the law.

[eastcanje]

Some good suggestions by the OP, but I think the financial outlay would be significant. In "rich, developed" western countries, governments are cutting back on what most people consider basic necessities (art and music classes, pensions, welfare payments, etc.), so I think the authorities in CR might have some difficulties in funding these improvements.

Perhaps the local Chamber of Commerce can be asked for input.

[canuckamuck]

All the nature and human interest things are nice. However, I would like to see the army force the Chiang Rai Police to enforce traffic laws and control the traffic. You never see a policeman doing any of this. The traffic is getting worse by the day. On Sunday on the back road to the mall it was backed up for 1 hour.

They never stop building new bridges that are not needed. Would like to see a major effort to fill the road potholes and

switch from using cold patch tar and gravel to cement. The cold patch lasts for about 2 months.

People hate to go to the city because you can never find a place to park. The spaces are mostly taken up by employees of the business. If they would raise the parking rate to 25 Baht per hour for sure you could find a place to park.

Double parking on both sides of the roads makes it near impossible to pass so you have to stop and wait for a clearing. Why the police won't control the parking is far beyond me other than you never see them doing anything.

The current rate of population increase in Chiang Rai with 1 million Chinese across the river requires city planning, police work and citizens observing the rules of the road and laws. Running red lights, not stopping at stop signs and pulling out into a road without looking is a major cause of accidents.

These things are extremely important to the rapid growth of the population of Chiang Rai.

Ha ha, I was caught for one hour as well on Sunday on that same road. I had promised my daughters (who don't get to town much) a trip to Central. We couldn't get any where near it. They had some tuner car race thingy in the parking lot and 100's of cars circling the lot looking for a place to park. It was madness.

We went and got an Ice cream at Big C instead.

[villagefarang]

While I am not inclined to join one of the OPs causes and don’t find his ethic slurs particularly endearing, I still think this is a discussion worth having. I am not talking about pushing an agenda, just discussing where we might like to see things go in Chiang Rai. There have been some very thoughtful comments so far.

We might go off on a tangent and inadvertently stumble upon something of interest. Not being authoritarian by nature, I am not inclined to dictate to others what they should do or how they should do it, and I don’t think rigid enforcement of rules is the answer to all our problems.

Still, by throwing ideas out there and talking in a civil manner, seeds may be planted and ideas might grow, though not necessarily what the OP would prefer.

On a personal note, the only thing I really miss about Bangkok is a really nice health club with squash courts and all the amenities. Pimann Inn just doesn’t cut it for me but I understand that for now the population base just wouldn’t support anything better.

[Chaiwallah]

I miss the excellent bus system in Bangkok. A bus or two to service the more trafficked routes might relieve traffic and parking congestion and would certainly provide me with some convenience. Buses with bike racks on the front?

[scorpio1945]

It is anecdotal but early on in Thailand I climbed to the top of a waterfall/hill near Maekompong. The thing I remember most was I did not see a single bird/animal on the climb. I thought that was disturbing.

There can never be too many public parks but if the Thais are not going to use them, it will never happen.

I hate driving a car in Thailand for obvious reasons. MC sort of fun. .

[NoshowJones]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

Yes, the OP has put up an interesting point of view, but I think you are a bit unfair on the "village idiot". it is people like him who make a lot of topics here on TV worth reading. Instead of being nasty to other posters, maybe you should get a life.

[wileycoyote]

I vote for Deer ,or at least a wildlife sanctuary

Yes Dinosaur park/Tourist Attraction might work

[techboy]

I'm hoping for a Burger King.

They already have the best nam ngiao in Thailand. Cheaper and better for you.

[boomerangutang]

I opened this thread hoping to see something interesting, but what I found was:

• A suggestion that Thai libraries should be like those in the US (would OP prefer books in Thai or Lanna or English?);

  I was using the US example because that's what I'm familiar with (their libraries of 25 years ago). Planners do that all the time - using examples from other locales in a comparative way. Thai politicians do that daily. As for language, that's a rhetorical Q trying to be wry, and not worth answering.

• A request for more parks. I assume OP must be talking about the CR city area only; CR city is in effect a small conurbation in a huge natural park that stretches for hundreds of miles in every direction (yea even unto Laos and Burma); There are rice paddies and weed fields, and some forest-like areas. Most are private property, but still somewhat encroachable - be that as it may. In the OP, it doesn't state there are no semi-natural areas around town. The focus was instead on a potential city park site.
• Hiking and biking trails. There must be at least several thousand already;
• There are no virtually no designated bicycle or jogging trails in or outside of C.Rai city. If you know of any, let us know. Yes, there are roads and dirt trails, and some of which are ok. None of 'em preclude motorbikes (a virtual impossibility in Thailand). However, my primary point in the OP was there is mega potential for designated trails skirting the main river on both sides.
• A creative centre for budding entrepreneurs. Would the OP be able to participate in such a centre using any of the indigenous spoken languages? Personally I believe creativity and entrepreneurialism are individual characteristics which are hard to legislate for; anyone with a real drive towards creativity or entrepreneurialism will find an outlet anyway. Having said that, some may recall that microfinance was made available a few years ago to support village-level initiatives, and quite a few have been successful;
• Why bring in whether 'the OP be able to participate' and 'indigenous spoken languages' .....stuff? Why go off on tangents?
• Wild animals. Hm, outside of the city in the many vast national parks there is a huge variety of wild animals, including bears and wild cats (any decent tour book or website will list them). It’s a myth that wild animals are “unafraid” of homo sapiens, or even of each other in most cases; and most of us would rightly be scared of many wild animals ;-)
• please name a wild mammal which you've seen in any part of northern Thailand, other than rats, bats and a rare squirrel.

[rijb]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

Yes, the OP has put up an interesting point of view, but I think you are a bit unfair on the "village idiot". it is people like him who make a lot of topics here on TV worth reading. Instead of being nasty to other posters, maybe you should get a life.

So, we have a critic (you) who doesn’t like another critic’s (NotJoeMama) criticism about another critic’s (VF) criticism about the OP, which is a criticism of CR.

This is getting critical (and confusing).

Can I add Taco Bell to my list?

[NoshowJones]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

Yes, the OP has put up an interesting point of view, but I think you are a bit unfair on the "village idiot". it is people like him who make a lot of topics here on TV worth reading. Instead of being nasty to other posters, maybe you should get a life.

So, we have a critic (you) who doesn’t like another critic’s (NotJoeMama) criticism about another critic’s (VF) criticism about the OP, which is a criticism of CR.

This is getting critical (and confusing).

Can I add Taco Bell to my list?

Who is Taco Bell? Anyway, I just hate keyboard warriors, referring to a poster as a "village idiot" is just plain nasty.

[rijb]

Sounds like a personal problem. We're trying to improve CR. If you don't know what a Taco Bell is, you're not going to be much help.

[DonaldBattles]

There used to be a Burger King in Chiang Rai and the cheap charlies refused to support it. Won't be long until you can a world class burger again at the coming up Doi Hang Fishing Park, bar, hot sandwiches and pies 3 days per week (Fri., Sat. and Sun.)

[harrry]

The introduction of deer would be greatly appreciated by the locals. Most of them still remember when there were deer in these parts. and they would love to eat them again. Monkeys? Horrible things. I am happy we don't have to deal with those thieving creatures around here. I have had several conflicts with monkeys in different places, I really dislike them. They are funny in movies only.

Your inner city ideas are good though. Like most places in Thailand Chiang rai really could be improved with some natural areas in the inner city.

Libraries probably would n't fly, but a more high tech approach, some kind of interactive learning center would be great.

Dinosaurs. Well if they were here you would likely know about it. They are a natural tourist attraction and someone would be profiting from it by now. I have never come across any fossils up here and I live in the bush.

Lots of raptors up where I live. we have a few types of owls, some small hawks, and occasional some bigger ones.

A proper hiking trail would be a good tourist draw. There a millions of trails here, but they dead end in most cases. A decently maintained trail running past a few villages would be appreciated by tourists that want to get out and be in real Thailand for a while. Be prepared to see it become a trail for Honda waves early on though.

After the ice cream you could have left the car at Big C and walked across the overpass and burnt up some calories. Then you could have eaten another one at Central (and I guess one at BigC again when you walked back).

[villagefarang]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

Yes, the OP has put up an interesting point of view, but I think you are a bit unfair on the "village idiot". it is people like him who make a lot of topics here on TV worth reading. Instead of being nasty to other posters, maybe you should get a life.

Thank you for risking the wrath of other posters on this forum by supporting my right to an opinion.

After waiting more than eight hours for someone to say something, I finally took it upon myself to start off the discussion, by offering my slightly different point of view. Right on cue some people tried to turn it into a referendum on me.

Fortunately more reasonable people joined in with their varying points of view. I don’t see this as a black/white, right/wrong sort of topic. We all have different opinions on Chiang Rai based on our own background or bias and depending on how and where we live.

The Op argues that the things he wants would improve quality of life and be a big boost for tourism but with the majority of tourists being the very Asians he blames for the present state of affairs, it sounds more personal than probable to me. I would be happy to be wrong but I can't see any of those things happening.

[rijb]

The Op put his point of view on the line. And he didn't take it personal or get defensive when some of his ideas were shot down.

I think it is admirable that he wants to improve the place we live.

But, we could probably do with a little less persecution complex in the peanut gallery.

[ajarnsiam]

• Re the library and the creative-entrepreneurial centre ideas : my points were neither rhetorical nor tangential, simply a statement of the obvious. English is not the first, second or even third language here, so the OP (or any other interested party) would need to be fairly fluent in a relevant language (reading and speaking) to effectively participate.

• Re parks outside of town: easy enough for you to look up the numerous national parks and their facilities; and actually if you try to drive a motorbike off-road through the parks that I know and enjoy, you will be stopped by the park rangers.

• Re parks inside town: your knowledge of this is probably better than mine, but there are several, including at least 2 along the river – whether they meet your requirements or not is another matter – but jogging surely doesn’t require a dedicated track.

• Re wild animals: they keep away from people, so even if you were to spend a pleasant week camping and hiking in a local national park, you would be unlikely to see (m)any. You would also find that substantial areas within the national parks are designated wildlife sanctuaries and you would not be allowed into those areas.

• Re the desire to increase tourism: I personally don’t share that desire, but CR province attracts a high level of tourism already – actually it was recently reported in the Thai press that it attracted the highest level of tourism in Thailand – but this would be Thai tourists, who would be unlikely to frequent the farang-oriented bars and hamburger restaurants so beloved of some of our readers.