The Hired man

[tkramer]

"Working With The Thais" by Henry Holmes

I read this book when it first came out in 1995 and I thought that it was nothing more than an attempt to cover-up Thai incompetence.

[tkramer]

"Thailand is a free land.
A hot country."

So is Singapore...5 times more productive.

[peterb17]

Oh well- its very tricky trying to live / work in a developing country. You either live with it and put up with all the frustrations or think about the horrendous red tape / Big Brother back home.

I know which I would prefer .

Best of luck

[rdcny1]

I understand...but then I read articles such as this one:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-08/american-billionaire-made-in-thailand-keeping-kingdom-bet.html

[justjoined]

I find the women to be much better than Thai men, who are a complete nightmare. Problem is for outside work you have to deal with men, most of whom know nothing but pretend to know it all. Thai employers have the same problem, they have to watch their workers like hawks to prevent mistakes. Burmese are harder working and don't have the stubborn false pride.

Unemployment here is less than 1%.

[shrimpythailand]

Certainly agree, never employee family and beware of them thinking they have the absolute right to make decisions on your part etc.

My Thai adult son has had a nightmare with this. His Thai wife is the nicest young lady you could wish to meet but her family are a nightmare.

My son has to get them together and make it very clear that 'this is the family house of the XXX family' also making it plain that they are welcome to stay overnight but no longer and they cannot touch anything in the house. Why?

- Come home and discover they have moved the big TV to another place in the living room and it's balanced precariously on a coupe of old cardboard boxes with electric cords stretched across and ready to trip someone up.

- Sister in law arrives from a bus about 7.50 am. Our maid arrives at 8.10 am. Sister in law (never seen the maid before) instantly starts abusing the maid for being late. Son intervenes and says maids agreed start time is 8.30 am. SIL then changes her abuse to lazy. She's never been to the house before. Son then tells SIL she is welcome but no more than one night and she cannot make any comment about anything to anybody when she's in the house. She now visits maybe once every 2 years, overnight only.

- Other SIL comes to sons house. She disappears upstairs, son's wife goes upstairs and her sister is packing suitcases for sons two young kids. Son's wife asks asks 'why?'. Her sister then announces she's made all the plans to take the children to live with their grandmother. In reality this is exactly what my son and his wife don't want. Idiot SIL now claims it's Thai law. Son tells her to leave and to never ever make any plans for anything about his family.

- Other SIL tells a guy from Bkk that he can park his double decker tour bus outside our house (upcountry). Bus turns up, nobody knows anything about this arrangement son and his wife would never agree. Bus man then says he's paid a fee to SIL. Son tells the bus man he must move the bus to another location immediately and refunds the fee the bus man has paid (150Baht). Son has to strongly tell this SIL to never ever make any plans about anything to do with his family.

My son and his wife are well aware that the outer relatives think they are rude and they don't appreciate the help that the outers try to arrange.

Unbelievable... well not really but ....thai law to take sons kids to live with Grandma?

[epicstuff]

Ive found workers virtually useless in all aspects so ended up building two house alone and I mean everything alone, no help at all. I now have two houses I know are perfect with the correct concrete and blocks laid with cement all round not just a bit on the horizontal joints etc

It takes me about a year to build each one from footings to painting, its HARD work because of the heat more than anything else.

amazing you got away with that, they could have booted you out for doing a job a Thai could have done....

[ayayay]

It is not easy, but in contrary to many belifs here on Thaivisa, it is better to try to become more human to them, than to be more alien. The more connected they become to you, the more respect they will have for you. So the more you point out that you are a white person, a "farang", that is, the alien, the less they are going to connect with you, and the less they are going to care about you.

So even though it is not a quick fix, try to not view yourself as the object, the "farang", but rather think of your self as a human with a name, and a personality, it will certainly help in the long run.

You say you have problems with them not listening to your instructions, it happens to Thai managers as well, but even more so because you are a "whitey", just a "farang", and they all know, you are all the same. Sorry to say, they do not have enough respect for you, to really care.

You should try to learn the language, and befriend them, more like a human, than as a strange alien farang/whitey. That way it will be easier to connect with them, and they will have greater respect for you.

[atyclb]

I think the OP just cannot accept the superiority of a superior race (as taught in national schools) Life gets easier once you accept that albert einstein was actually a Thai but due to humility disguised himself as a member of a different country.

[justjoined]

You should try to learn the language, and befriend them, more like a human, than as a strange alien farang/whitey. That way it will be easier to connect with them, and they will have greater respect for you.

The OP has said he can give instructions in Thai.

[ukguyinthai]

Have a look around any major city; you will see building work and some complex buildings too. Very cleaver qualified Thai people doing a good job. They are given clear precise plans and instructions. They are paid always with an incentive bonus because Thais like everyone else needs an incentive.

If you use unemployed and unqualified family or spare people from around the village. Pay them 2 to 300 Baht a day. Plus you cannot communicate effectively enough. Then it will always be disaster.

It’s all about saving money. It’s the same in your country, hire an unemployed, unqualified guy and lend him your tools .Its cross your fingers time. You know it’s going to go wrong.

Or hire guys who are qualified and recommended, that know how to use their own tools .Pay the right money at the end…………..but most people won’t ……..because they do not want to pay, and think getting a workforce together out of the jungle, paying them next to nothing. And then continue to abuse them and insult them and embarrass them is the way forward.

How many of you really believe Thai people are such bad workers……….

Why would a good Thai builder and his lads want to come and work for an ignorant poor paying foreign guy who cannot even talk properly, and ends up insulting them, not a chance?

[SDM0712]

You could do what they do in construction down here. Build some accommodation on your land, steel huts that type of thing and import Burmese workers or Thais from out of area. I think a lot of these problems is that in small communities everyone knows each other and the workers take liberties. If they don't know anyone, or your family, they will not feel so confident about being cocky. If they are just fire them. You might find with the Burmese for example that the locals won't want to know them anyway and they are so poor that they will be really happy to work. Familiarity breeds contempt. I would never employ family members or anyone I couldn't fire in a heartbeat.

SDM

[ericthai]

Yes it is difficult working with Thai's. I own and factory. When I first started out it was a very small building we were working out. I tried to fight with the staff to do things the way I wanted done, then I decided I would sit back and let them do it their way, well their way with a mix of my way turned out to be the best. Then we moved into a bigger building and i hired a plant manager, he lasted 2 weeks. I went through about 3-4 guys until I found one that followed directions. However the guys before him we all over the map. The one guy would take off each Friday afternoon and not come back until Monday afternoon. our factory was in Suirin his mai noi was in Surin but his wife was in BKK so he was going home each weekend. The staff would lie for him and tell me he is out getting parts, this that. The first weekend I thought is was odd that every time I was stopped by he was out the second weekend I stayed there all day Saturday and Sunday to find out the truth. Really happy with the guy I have now. I can tell him something over the phone and dont have to worry about it getting done. Granted most of our process is now automated but still have to watch qauility very closely. At first he was scared to stop a shipment if it was not to par, after he saw me stop two shipments because of quality and he was worried about the customer I told him better to let the customer to get upset now for not being on time than send out bad product and then have to pay to return it and ship it again and the customer is still upset. It is very hard to find good guys, I found my guy in Rayong. I went down there and talked to a few supply shops that I was looking for a plant manager and put up a few poster. I got allot of resumes and started going through the hire a guy no good fired and move to the next resume. Checked with some old employers if I could. Maybe try and go to Rayong to find someone allot of skilled workers that have been working in factories run by US, Japaneses etc. Also I would not be their friend, you need to stay as they say the "Big Boss" I'm not saying dont be nice. I buy my guys whiskey from time to time and give a day off for them and their family to come to the factory for a BBQ where my wife and I cook and drink some beer with them.

[sdanielmcev]

As someone who has run a few crews, and have had a few months here, I still find the word 'no' works best. It seems a difficult concept for most managers/owners to understand. When you start worrying about employees feelings, you're running a nursery, not a business. I'm talking about the 'how' of working, not being an uncaring person. It is the job of the overseer to describe the terms of working.

And, remember, this face thing works both ways, not just to the Thais advantage. I also have to ask how well you speak Thai. Speaking the language has its advantages.

One more thing, working around Thais, particularly the men seems to be no different than working with Mexicans/Central Americans back in the States. They like to use their ethnicity for or against 'whitey.'Maybe I have an advantage there, dealing with them.

Learn to say no, not with a frown, but with a fragile smile. Make them want to please you.

[sikishrory]

Yeh don't employee family members. I have worked in Thai kitchens (i'm a chef) of 5 star resorts in the past with family members that openly admit that "they don't like to work a lot". I would refuse to work in that situation again.

I completely understand everything you wrote. I tried everything as well. The angry boss, the easy going boss. the friendly, the cultural boss, the hardworking hand on boss, the psychopath boss. Usually when you ask to get something done they don't want to do it and you have to literally walk them to the job and watch them begin it. This way at least they begin but it is rarely done as it should be.

There is always someone that wants to show you up and try to show themselves as being better than you to all the other staff. There is not the same mindset that people in the west have with helping each other out and sharing of ideas.

I also have bought equipment in the past only to see it gathering dust in the store room soon after. I have bought potato ricers only the see Thais passing potato through a sieve or just beating it with a whisk to mash it. 1000 baht pots and fry pans put in storage in favor of a wok. chef spoons in storage. woks used right next to good deep fryers ("fryer baskets to heavy"). the list goes on.

I was given advice from a smarter Thai once who was well educated abroad. he told me don't ever expect it will be any other way. don't ever expect that your going to have a kitchen full of proper staff. it is always going to be like this in Thailand. he was certainly right.

It is a fact that Thai staff staff don't respond well to <deleted> gordon ramsay style treatment. i have tried it on in the past only to have staff quit the next day and send me death threats. which is fine as they are gone but for the staff that stay they will never forget it.

some staff will always be pushing back at you and going against everything you do. you just have to stick to your guns. not get angry but not be a pushover too. just manage. if staff can't do the assigned tasks then they should get a warning. 3 warnings and they are gone.

in your situation it might not be so simple. part of it will be because you are not Thai but there's more to it than that. it might be best to do what someone else said and just pay casual. your Thai partner could probably step up a bit and help you with this stuff.

it would be good to have a right hand man help you out but usually that turns to shit unfortunately.

Don't expect it is ever going to be any different. Just keep doing your best and clearing out the crap staff as often as you can.

[canuckamuck]

It is not easy, but in contrary to many belifs here on Thaivisa, it is better to try to become more human to them, than to be more alien. The more connected they become to you, the more respect they will have for you. So the more you point out that you are a white person, a "farang", that is, the alien, the less they are going to connect with you, and the less they are going to care about you.

So even though it is not a quick fix, try to not view yourself as the object, the "farang", but rather think of your self as a human with a name, and a personality, it will certainly help in the long run.

You say you have problems with them not listening to your instructions, it happens to Thai managers as well, but even more so because you are a "whitey", just a "farang", and they all know, you are all the same. Sorry to say, they do not have enough respect for you, to really care.

You should try to learn the language, and befriend them, more like a human, than as a strange alien farang/whitey. That way it will be easier to connect with them, and they will have greater respect for you.

These guys generally sleep in my house and eat at my table, meals are free, even over the weekend. Almost always I work right with them, unless it is a long mindless project. I get dirty and I work hard, harder than they do generally. I am no great conversationalist in Thai, But I can explain what to do all day long without having to fetch my wife for a translation. But sometimes I do get help to explain technical points.

I am doing the best I can do. I see Thai bosses treat their guys like they are idiots. If I did it like them I would lose every worker on the first day.

[bigbamboo]

I bet a million expats all over the world could tell similar stories. Of course you know what you get when you pay peanuts but hiring workers here is a real hit and miss affair. We've been luck and unlucky too and employing family here is no guarantee.

[thaicookingchef]

Sorry to tell but you are maybe just not made to be a boss, here at least...

I manage many Thai (but not in a farm) and have no problem: I am not their friend and they know it, I also do not get mad because it's useless, etc...

And it works !

[bander]

Rule # 1 in Thailand: Never employee a family member from your wife. (they are the most lazy workers and won't listen if you give them any kind of advice or instruction)

If you follow this rule you should be OK.

[bander]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I bet a million expats all over the world could tell similar stories. Of course you know what you get when you pay peanuts but hiring workers here is a real hit and miss affair. We've been luck and unlucky too and employing family here is no guarantee.

Employing family is a disaster, tried it myself, never again.

[bander]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It is not easy, but in contrary to many belifs here on Thaivisa, it is better to try to become more human to them, than to be more alien. The more connected they become to you, the more respect they will have for you. So the more you point out that you are a white person, a "farang", that is, the alien, the less they are going to connect with you, and the less they are going to care about you.

So even though it is not a quick fix, try to not view yourself as the object, the "farang", but rather think of your self as a human with a name, and a personality, it will certainly help in the long run.

You say you have problems with them not listening to your instructions, it happens to Thai managers as well, but even more so because you are a "whitey", just a "farang", and they all know, you are all the same. Sorry to say, they do not have enough respect for you, to really care.

You should try to learn the language, and befriend them, more like a human, than as a strange alien farang/whitey. That way it will be easier to connect with them, and they will have greater respect for you.

These guys generally sleep in my house and eat at my table, meals are free, even over the weekend. Almost always I work right with them, unless it is a long mindless project. I get dirty and I work hard, harder than they do generally. I am no great conversationalist in Thai, But I can explain what to do all day long without having to fetch my wife for a translation. But sometimes I do get help to explain technical points.

I am doing the best I can do. I see Thai bosses treat their guys like they are idiots. If I did it like them I would lose every worker on the first day.

I bet all your Thai workers adore and respect you when you work hard beside them in the dirt and on top of that they get to eat free food together with a falang boss, that must be they'r highlight of the day.

[canuckamuck]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It is not easy, but in contrary to many belifs here on Thaivisa, it is better to try to become more human to them, than to be more alien. The more connected they become to you, the more respect they will have for you. So the more you point out that you are a white person, a "farang", that is, the alien, the less they are going to connect with you, and the less they are going to care about you.

So even though it is not a quick fix, try to not view yourself as the object, the "farang", but rather think of your self as a human with a name, and a personality, it will certainly help in the long run.

You say you have problems with them not listening to your instructions, it happens to Thai managers as well, but even more so because you are a "whitey", just a "farang", and they all know, you are all the same. Sorry to say, they do not have enough respect for you, to really care.

You should try to learn the language, and befriend them, more like a human, than as a strange alien farang/whitey. That way it will be easier to connect with them, and they will have greater respect for you.

These guys generally sleep in my house and eat at my table, meals are free, even over the weekend. Almost always I work right with them, unless it is a long mindless project. I get dirty and I work hard, harder than they do generally. I am no great conversationalist in Thai, But I can explain what to do all day long without having to fetch my wife for a translation. But sometimes I do get help to explain technical points.

I am doing the best I can do. I see Thai bosses treat their guys like they are idiots. If I did it like them I would lose every worker on the first day.

I bet all your Thai workers adore and respect you when you work hard beside them in the dirt and on top of that they get to eat free food together with a falang boss, that must be they'r highlight of the day.

I am not sure if you were being sarcastic or not (it is the nature of the forum) . Anyhow I am not really struggling with how to live with rural Thais I am quite isolated up here. It's either fit in or go nuts. My struggle is in getting jobs done non-destructively, and also with having them do things in a way that is different to how they would do it. I struggle with saying, "no that's not what I want, can you do it like this? And then still having a motivated worker.

Yes they do like it when I work with them, especially the really grunty stuff. They like it when I lift something myself that two of them were struggling with. Yes that might be showing off, but they like showing off. However I am 47 and not in the shape I used to be in. I need to quit doing some of that. Also my goal in hiring people, is so they can do the jobs anyone can do, and I can go do jobs that need to be done by me.

When one of my western friends drop by, It is ridiculous how quickly we can get stuff done. If I could just have 25% of that I would be pleased.

In the OP I stated that I lost a guy simply because he wouldn't put gas in a bike (for 10 days) and I called him on it. It's like walking on eggshells in situations that should be obvious.

I was hoping to see some wisdom from some long time rural westerners about how they get past the small stuff.

[cup-O-coffee]

Well, I have to be honest and frank with you, canuckamuck

I really put a lot of thought into this and tried to think of a solution from your point of view, when it suddenly hit me. It is not any problems on the part of the people, culture and environment around you… it is the problem of you, a man in his forties, acting out like Dian Fossey, known by locals as Nyirmachabelli, or Nyiramacibiri, roughly translated as "The woman who lives alone on the mountain." She moved right in with the gorillas and lived with them for 18 years, and actually managed to get along with them. Maybe you should read her book for pointers.

This entire OP is wrong on so many levels because it is your point of view, which expresses an element of culture that you mistakenly brought in with you when you turned your back on civilization to live a lifestyle that is out there in left field. What you should be doing is expressing how your point of view has accepted their way of life and thinking and how you have lowered all of your expectations to their level of understanding.

Why are you bothering us, who are arguably the kind of people who would never ever think of reaching their sixties and abandoning all common sense, and moving into an environment and culture of people who have absolutely nothing in common with our ideal of living, breathing, hoping, achieving, etc. and so on?

I sympathize briefly, but were you my brother, I'd tell you to either snap out of it and get a life, or simply kill the remaining portion of your common sense and become totally native, hence we don't have to be bothered with your flickering re-occurrences of common sense and any remainder of high expectations which should now be on life support.

Stop pointing the finger at them and become one with them, or else allow fear to grip your soul because there is still something remaining in your conscience that is telling you that all is not right with the decisions you have made in your dwindling life span, and perhaps there are better places to live and more edifying occupations to pursue.

I told you I’d be frank and honest. Up to you to decide, but as a parting warning I would not allow my intelligence to get in the way of a solution if you insist on living under these conditions and with these people and their culture. You chose to live among them and not to evangelize them, so shut up and accept the dish you served for yourself. Personally, I would imagine that they, in their view, think of you as the stupid one and all out of sorts.

It's funny how life can be, and how difficult we can make it.

Peace and love to "The man who lives alone in the boonies"!

EDIT: Oh yes. For answers, you should be asking them and not us. Our answers are for telling around the camp fire. Their answers are for the way it is going to come at you, and the way it simply is, and always was.

[canuckamuck]

Well thank you very much cup-o-coffee. I enjoyed that. I can see how you come to those conclusions based on not knowing more about my life.

But in my defense I wasn't asking for advice from someone who is not doing what I am doing. I am asking for advice from people who are. hence my post in the farming section.

I have my reasons for being here and I really like my life. There are just some issues I would like to improve on That's all.

Diane Fosse eh? That's quite good.

[Seastallion]

Well, I have to be honest and frank with you, canuckamuck

I really put a lot of thought into this and tried to think of a solution from your point of view, when it suddenly hit me. It is not any problems on the part of the people, culture and environment around you… it is the problem of you, a man in his forties, acting out like Dian Fossey, known by locals as Nyirmachabelli, or Nyiramacibiri, roughly translated as "The woman who lives alone on the mountain." She moved right in with the gorillas and lived with them for 18 years, and actually managed to get along with them. Maybe you should read her book for pointers.

This entire OP is wrong on so many levels because it is your point of view, which expresses an element of culture that you mistakenly brought in with you when you turned your back on civilization to live a lifestyle that is out there in left field. What you should be doing is expressing how your point of view has accepted their way of life and thinking and how you have lowered all of your expectations to their level of understanding.

Why are you bothering us, who are arguably the kind of people who would never ever think of reaching their sixties and abandoning all common sense, and moving into an environment and culture of people who have absolutely nothing in common with our ideal of living, breathing, hoping, achieving, etc. and so on?

I sympathize briefly, but were you my brother, I'd tell you to either snap out of it and get a life, or simply kill the remaining portion of your common sense and become totally native, hence we don't have to be bothered with your flickering re-occurrences of common sense and any remainder of high expectations which should now be on life support.

Stop pointing the finger at them and become one with them, or else allow fear to grip your soul because there is still something remaining in your conscience that is telling you that all is not right with the decisions you have made in your dwindling life span, and perhaps there are better places to live and more edifying occupations to pursue.

I told you I’d be frank and honest. Up to you to decide, but as a parting warning I would not allow my intelligence to get in the way of a solution if you insist on living under these conditions and with these people and their culture. You chose to live among them and not to evangelize them, so shut up and accept the dish you served for yourself. Personally, I would imagine that they, in their view, think of you as the stupid one and all out of sorts.

It's funny how life can be, and how difficult we can make it.

Peace and love to "The man who lives alone in the boonies"!

EDIT: Oh yes. For answers, you should be asking them and not us. Our answers are for telling around the camp fire. Their answers are for the way it is going to come at you, and the way it simply is, and always was.

City slickers will never understand, especially latent bigot city slickers.

The OP is 47, not in his 60's, fit and seemingly thriving on the lifestyle. His question is valid, as is his desire for an answer, To say give in and let their way sweep over you is not an answer; To construct a building using local unsafe methods is unacceptable. To have two hired workers take a day to do a job that one man with the right attitude and tool can do in two hours is inefficient and wasteful of time and money.

Canuckamuck, I don't know if I have the answer for you, but last night I was at Sizzler, and to see the staff work, plainly following to a T the prescribed franchise methods, your story came to mind. Somehow, the franchisee (presumably Thai) has not only taken on board the prescribed methods (which are quite different to Thai-run restaurants), but has also instilled in the staff the unThai way in which to do everything.

I think of this observation, and tie it in with another; That of how Thais seem to do things the way they were taught and never waver from that way, despite new (or perversely for this OP, old) technology or methods being shown.

Somewhere in tying those two observations is the answer (possibly) for you.

Somehow, you have to make the job new, requiring different method and tools. For example, emptying a hay rick. "I need the hay piled in this very particular way, this is not simply emptying the rick, therefore, you need to use this pitchfork in this very particular way" Show by example and really make it look important that the hay is piled in such a way.

I don't know. It's a suggestion.

[cooked]

I am slowly coming to a conclusion that I did not realise when I first came here. It is not a matter of these guys having different values, but that they have no values at all. Just wriggle your way out of situations that might prove difficult or awkward, don't look people in the eye, don't show interest in or awareness of other cultures and ways of doing things... and then be jealous of rich Farang that never worked 'Thaily '.

Sorry, is that Thai bashing? The odd exception to this generalisation are real gems, I respect them but unfortunately they always seem to have so much work that they rarely have time for me.

[cup-O-coffee]

Well thank you very much cup-o-coffee. I enjoyed that. I can see how you come to those conclusions based on not knowing more about my life.

But in my defense I wasn't asking for advice from someone who is not doing what I am doing. I am asking for advice from people who are. hence my post in the farming section.

I have my reasons for being here and I really like my life. There are just some issues I would like to improve on That's all.

Diane Fosse eh? That's quite good.

I am glad that you can see that you do not describe enough about your life, in order to warrant a response which is best suited for whatever it is you truly seek. Albeit, the answer is in figuring out their lives, or simply accepting them for who they are. Either way, not much will ever get accomplished and only one or the other will ever be satisfied. Anything else involves you resorting to Pavlovian methods, and to an extent... as odd as it may seem... this seems to be the only available option to create a win win scenario.

To answer your call, however, I would pull the stool out from under their asses.

• Tear down the on-site housing and/or send them back home. Immediate cost savings.
• Hire a truck to pick them up and deliver them daily to the staging area, away from the TV and distractions. They are there to work and then go home.
• Pay them daily for duties satisfactorily performed.
• Have the truck take them back at the end of the day.
• Have a set of assigned, daily tasks and duties you want performed on that day. If its hoeing a row or ten rows for that day, then that is their goal if they want to get paid that day.
• Ask the workers what they think they can accomplish on that day. Agree or don't. Expect more or not. When hands are shaken, that means they know what to do to get paid at the end of the day. No excuses. If they have an excuse, accept it, but don't pay them.
• Stop being their friend. Just be an ATM that doesn't cough up the loot until the proper buttons are pressed (i.e proper duties performed)
• Stop paying them a monthly salary so they can think about it and spend it before they get it. Make them think about survival on a daily cash basis. It's harder to get drunk on 600 THB than 6000 THB.
• Stop feeding and housing them and kissing them in the ears.
• Now they know what they have agreed to do, or they don't get paid.

These are just a few ideas that have worked for me in any given situation. Good luck.

[cup-O-coffee]

Well, I have to be honest and frank with you, canuckamuck

I really put a lot of thought into this and tried to think of a solution from your point of view, when it suddenly hit me. It is not any problems on the part of the people, culture and environment around you… it is the problem of you, a man in his forties, acting out like Dian Fossey, known by locals as Nyirmachabelli, or Nyiramacibiri, roughly translated as "The woman who lives alone on the mountain." She moved right in with the gorillas and lived with them for 18 years, and actually managed to get along with them. Maybe you should read her book for pointers.

This entire OP is wrong on so many levels because it is your point of view, which expresses an element of culture that you mistakenly brought in with you when you turned your back on civilization to live a lifestyle that is out there in left field. What you should be doing is expressing how your point of view has accepted their way of life and thinking and how you have lowered all of your expectations to their level of understanding.

Why are you bothering us, who are arguably the kind of people who would never ever think of reaching their sixties and abandoning all common sense, and moving into an environment and culture of people who have absolutely nothing in common with our ideal of living, breathing, hoping, achieving, etc. and so on?

I sympathize briefly, but were you my brother, I'd tell you to either snap out of it and get a life, or simply kill the remaining portion of your common sense and become totally native, hence we don't have to be bothered with your flickering re-occurrences of common sense and any remainder of high expectations which should now be on life support.

Stop pointing the finger at them and become one with them, or else allow fear to grip your soul because there is still something remaining in your conscience that is telling you that all is not right with the decisions you have made in your dwindling life span, and perhaps there are better places to live and more edifying occupations to pursue.

I told you I’d be frank and honest. Up to you to decide, but as a parting warning I would not allow my intelligence to get in the way of a solution if you insist on living under these conditions and with these people and their culture. You chose to live among them and not to evangelize them, so shut up and accept the dish you served for yourself. Personally, I would imagine that they, in their view, think of you as the stupid one and all out of sorts.

It's funny how life can be, and how difficult we can make it.

Peace and love to "The man who lives alone in the boonies"!

EDIT: Oh yes. For answers, you should be asking them and not us. Our answers are for telling around the camp fire. Their answers are for the way it is going to come at you, and the way it simply is, and always was.

City slickers will never understand, especially latent bigot city slickers.

The OP is 47, not in his 60's, fit and seemingly thriving on the lifestyle. His question is valid, as is his desire for an answer, To say give in and let their way sweep over you is not an answer; To construct a building using local unsafe methods is unacceptable. To have two hired workers take a day to do a job that one man with the right attitude and tool can do in two hours is inefficient and wasteful of time and money.

Canuckamuck, I don't know if I have the answer for you, but last night I was at Sizzler, and to see the staff work, plainly following to a T the prescribed franchise methods, your story came to mind. Somehow, the franchisee (presumably Thai) has not only taken on board the prescribed methods (which are quite different to Thai-run restaurants), but has also instilled in the staff the unThai way in which to do everything.

I think of this observation, and tie it in with another; That of how Thais seem to do things the way they were taught and never waver from that way, despite new (or perversely for this OP, old) technology or methods being shown.

Somewhere in tying those two observations is the answer (possibly) for you.

Somehow, you have to make the job new, requiring different method and tools. For example, emptying a hay rick. "I need the hay piled in this very particular way, this is not simply emptying the rick, therefore, you need to use this pitchfork in this very particular way" Show by example and really make it look important that the hay is piled in such a way.

I don't know. It's a suggestion.

Ouch! That hoit's. Hey Mo! Woo woo woo woo woop!

[canuckamuck]

To answer your call, however, I would pull the stool out from under their asses.

• Tear down the on-site housing and/or send them back home. Immediate cost savings.
• Hire a truck to pick them up and deliver them daily to the staging area, away from the TV and distractions. They are there to work and then go home.
• Pay them daily for duties satisfactorily performed.
• Have the truck take them back at the end of the day.
• Have a set of assigned, daily tasks and duties you want performed on that day. If its hoeing a row or ten rows for that day, then that is their goal if they want to get paid that day.
• Ask the workers what they think they can accomplish on that day. Agree or don't. Expect more or not. When hands are shaken, that means they know what to do to get paid at the end of the day. No excuses. If they have an excuse, accept it, but don't pay them.
• Stop being their friend. Just be an ATM that doesn't cough up the loot until the proper buttons are pressed (i.e proper duties performed)
• Stop paying them a monthly salary so they can think about it and spend it before they get it. Make them think about survival on a daily cash basis. It's harder to get drunk on 600 THB than 6000 THB.
• Stop feeding and housing them and kissing them in the ears.
• Now they know what they have agreed to do, or they don't get paid.

These are just a few ideas that have worked for me in any given situation. Good luck.

And all of this will help them receive critical comments?

[cup-O-coffee]

To answer your call, however, I would pull the stool out from under their asses.

• Tear down the on-site housing and/or send them back home. Immediate cost savings.
• Hire a truck to pick them up and deliver them daily to the staging area, away from the TV and distractions. They are there to work and then go home.
• Pay them daily for duties satisfactorily performed.
• Have the truck take them back at the end of the day.
• Have a set of assigned, daily tasks and duties you want performed on that day. If its hoeing a row or ten rows for that day, then that is their goal if they want to get paid that day.
• Ask the workers what they think they can accomplish on that day. Agree or don't. Expect more or not. When hands are shaken, that means they know what to do to get paid at the end of the day. No excuses. If they have an excuse, accept it, but don't pay them.
• Stop being their friend. Just be an ATM that doesn't cough up the loot until the proper buttons are pressed (i.e proper duties performed)
• Stop paying them a monthly salary so they can think about it and spend it before they get it. Make them think about survival on a daily cash basis. It's harder to get drunk on 600 THB than 6000 THB.
• Stop feeding and housing them and kissing them in the ears.
• Now they know what they have agreed to do, or they don't get paid.

These are just a few ideas that have worked for me in any given situation. Good luck.

And all of this will help them receive critical comments?

Funny how people interpret things. The issue involves many factors that one gathers through life when dealing with people and things. There is a difference between being firm, like a father, and course, like a bully or a dictator.

The thing is, how you choose to set out your spread is who you will attract. If you do it with a bit of thought and foresight, you can keep away the flies and bums and get the results you want.

It's kind of like the visa crackdown. Have a bit of firmness to the rules and you'll discourage those who aren't worth your time in the first place. Those who truly wish to work and get paid for it won't have any problem with your guidelines.

If you make it known in the beginning what you expect and what you are willing to compensate, then there will be no critical comments in the form you imply (destructive criticism). On the other hand, constructive criticism in necessary, as no one is perfect when going through a learning curve.

As I stated before (or implied before) you are up against the odds, as Thais can't seem to differentiate between constructive and destructive criticism no matter how you do it. I shake my head in disgust at people who think they have to hold their hands and blow kisses in their ears, or buy one's way into their lives in the false hopes that the Thais will feel ingratiated and perform better.

Like it or not, the only way I've ever known to provide positive results with this demographic is to separate the buddy buddy from the boss and keep things sterile. Again, be firm and not a bully or dictator, but keep your distance. Nothing wrong in that.