Rice missing, rotten or 'replaced by inferior stock'

[renaissanc]

Yingluck shouldn't be unhappy. In Dubai there are many international schools for her son, and Thaksin has a nice villa and lots of loot stashed away.

[dru2]

Can't wait for the conclusion of this audit and how much is written off for accounting descranpancies & perishable write off. Any business who maintain an inventory know a certain portion will be spoil and will not be sold. All accountant will recognize this reality. The news only mentioned rice loss, rotten or replaced but no mention of fraud or corruption. So no conclusive statement yet but seem some posters here already made up their mind. It was a subsidy plan well intended that went weary and poorly implemented. An dereliction of duty but not a scam or fraud.

Interesting to see that you have clearly made up your mind, Redshirt apologist Eric! How tediously predictable.

[Seismic]

Seriously ??, and this is considered news, I think 90% of people reading this will just say, "yep...I thought so".

[h90]

As a subsidy it was OK.

As a sales plan horrible

Subsidy?

The Yingluck administration was so confident about their profit making or at least break-even RPPS that they let the BAAC set-up a 500 billion Baht revolving funds. Paid from the fund, restore from rice sales. By now the losses may be 700++ billion Baht, but costs of the funds and interest don't seem to be paid, just like those farmer who had to wait

So, especially with poor farmers not helped or even more into debt, this RPPS can only be labeled a SCAM.

Yes I plan a subsidy which is 500 % better in 5 min.....

It was a plan for corruption and Thaksin thought that he can mask the corruption by a gamble. Stop to sell Thai rice. The world wide market price will go to the sky. Than sell it at good price.

Just these Farangs replace rice with other things when it is expensive and Cambodia, India, Vietnam, etc etc aren't sleeping.

So the price didn't increase, but when all the buyers knew that Thailand MUST sell it decreased......No wonder that Thaksin always lost when he did free market business...

[zyphodb]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"The government will prosecute those involved." What we will read about in the future may be a few sack stuffers and stackers getting busted. No Thai warehouse property owners and bankers will be arrested or ever prosecuted. Thailand is a laugher.

And yet one has just been sentenced to 6 years inside. Let's wait and see.

He obviously didn't pay off the right people.....

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. Let's stick to this subject of this topic please.

[tingtongteesood]

"The government will prosecute those involved." What we will read about in the future may be a few sack stuffers and stackers getting busted. No Thai warehouse property owners and bankers will be arrested or ever prosecuted. Thailand is a laugher.

Thank you mr. sour grapes as long as PTP are not allowed to do as they please I can never say anything positive about anyone else.

Please take your negativity and keep it to yourself.

The rest of us can be happy things have changed much for the better.

[tingtongteesood]

Can't wait for the conclusion of this audit and how much is written off for accounting descranpancies & perishable write off. Any business who maintain an inventory know a certain portion will be spoil and will not be sold. All accountant will recognize this reality. The news only mentioned rice loss, rotten or replaced but no mention of fraud or corruption. So no conclusive statement yet but seem some posters here already made up their mind. It was a subsidy plan well intended that went weary and poorly implemented. An dereliction of duty but not a scam or fraud.

Crazy Eric's spinning round and round so fast he must be getting really damn dizzy ! Keep spinning till you vomit if it makes you happy but the vast majority of us know the truth.....

[waza]

Another interesting fact is that on the 2014-02-22, Foreign Trade chief Surasak Riangkrul claimed, "Thailand has a glut of 18 to 20 million tonnes in state stockpiles bought via the pledging scheme'. However, this article states, He said military and police teams will visit about 1,800 warehouses nationwide to inspect registered stocks of 10 million tons.

[rubl]

Another interesting fact is that on the 2014-02-22, Foreign Trade chief Surasak Riangkrul claimed, "Thailand has a glut of 18 to 20 million tonnes in state stockpiles bought via the pledging scheme'. However, this article states, He said military and police teams will visit about 1,800 warehouses nationwide to inspect registered stocks of 10 million tons.

Maybe we sold 8 to 10 million tonnes of rice in the last five months

[Chris Lawrence]

To me its as though they knew where to look and what to look for, but then again its only a rice warehouse. Who has been doing the checks and balances?

Amazing Thailand beautiful one day corrupt the next?

As Fangferang said its been happening since the 1970's?

[northernjohn]

...Badly stacked warehouse? Hahahaha. Most are in some way...

And you find that funny?

The Bangkok Post had as picture of one with the rice stacked very nicely. They crawled over the stacks to find an empty warehouse short 91,000 bags of rice.

It is amazing how good a job they made up of it when they thought they were going to get away with it.

[englishoak]

ML Panadda Diskul, chairman of a sub-committee reviewing the inventory, said a large quantity of rice was discovered to be missing in just the first two days of the inspection,.

You seem to have forgotten the rice that is missing completely

along with evidence that large stocks were replaced with old or inferior grades

You have not explained where the rice went that was replaced with inferior grade, nor where the inferior rice came from.

He said some of the warehouses were in a disorganized state, stacked with low-quality rice or rice mixed with other substances in an apparent effort to make inspections more difficult.

Does that not suggest to you deliberate corruption in an attempt to deceive ?

And of course one of the headlines :

An inspection ordered by Thailand's military junta of rice stored in warehouses under a failed multibillion-dollar subsidy scheme has revealed rot and corruption, reports said Sunday.

Rot and corruption. Right ?

You also have to remember that this is only day two of the investigation.

knowing Thai reporting that means rot and corruption in the gone off sense, no one has been able to find any proof yet of whos been stealing, a lot here of course dont need proof just opinion based on postings its all "them" but then thats the rank and file for you... its actually been going on for decades and business as usual.

Id start with the millers books and bank accounts, after all everyone loves paperwork so much there must be tons of ledgers in every holding place...

Edited July 6, 2014 by englishoak

[rubl]

...Badly stacked warehouse? Hahahaha. Most are in some way...

And you find that funny?

The Bangkok Post had as picture of one with the rice stacked very nicely. They crawled over the stacks to find an empty warehouse short 91,000 bags of rice.

It is amazing how good a job they made up of it when they thought they were going to get away with it.

Channel 5 News today showed a few inspections and the interesting way things 'looked'.

Mind you, the NCPO should have asked the UN for some help in inspecting to ensure also the hardliners here finally start to accept that possibly there may be insignificant cause to contemplate the likelihood that a few sacks of rice may have been misplaced, or left exposed or so, this being Thailand that is

[Thai at Heart]

Another interesting fact is that on the 2014-02-22, Foreign Trade chief Surasak Riangkrul claimed, "Thailand has a glut of 18 to 20 million tonnes in state stockpiles bought via the pledging scheme'. However, this article states, He said military and police teams will visit about 1,800 warehouses nationwide to inspect registered stocks of 10 million tons.

Indeed I noticed that. God knows how much is really meant to be in the warehouse.

[northernjohn]

Another interesting fact is that on the 2014-02-22, Foreign Trade chief Surasak Riangkrul claimed, "Thailand has a glut of 18 to 20 million tonnes in state stockpiles bought via the pledging scheme'. However, this article states, He said military and police teams will visit about 1,800 warehouses nationwide to inspect registered stocks of 10 million tons.

Indeed I noticed that. God knows how much is really meant to be in the warehouse.

I would say it is a safe bet that lots more is meant to be in them than is in them.

I wonder if they are counting bags or going by weight or a combination.

I know the counting bag rate showed 1 short 91,000 bags and I believe three others OK. But there was a lot missing in Pichet when the PTP was still in power.

[Thai at Heart]

That's 90% of the point they don't.

They have run this stockpile for 3 years now.

Rice is normally out of the country in 1 season. Why?

Because you can't story millions of tonnes of rice in the Thai climate without infestation and quality deterioration or mould. The private sector wouldn't be able to store 19mn Mt of product perfectly, let alone the govt.

I have seen old rice warehouses near Khon Kaen you wouldn't put pigs in let alone rice.

Goh, does that mean the Yingluck government was totally ignorant or acted even more criminally than I thought with their RPPS?

Possible answer: the Yingluck government was aware of problems with internationally prices of rice dropping. By not selling any rice bought via the RPPS but just storing it their tried to hide the growing losses expected.

That is the actual crime if it's a crime. Anyone would know that over a 3 year period the quality would drop a lot or go mouldy.

Maybe they deemed the losses acceptable.

Maybe they didn't provide many details and only various, contradictory figures in order to obfuscate and hide the real amount of losses incurred?

With BAAC having paid out nearly 1,000,000,000,000 Baht and possibly a few hundred billion having been recovered, there still seem to be a bit of a gap. Allegedly that is. Barely worthwhile to accuse Ms. Yingluck of negligence because of that.

There was always going to be gap. Thaksin mused that Thailand could corner the market. Dumb idea that was. There was always gojng to be some kind of shortfall.

Every subsidy programming in the world has a shortfall. Someone gets paid above market price for something. That's a loss

[oldsailor35]

And have the owners and managers of these Rice Storage Depots , yet been arrested pending investigation. Or are they off on bail !

Edited July 6, 2014 by oldsailor35

[NeverSure]

That's 90% of the point they don't.

They have run this stockpile for 3 years now.

Rice is normally out of the country in 1 season. Why?

Because you can't story millions of tonnes of rice in the Thai climate without infestation and quality deterioration or mould. The private sector wouldn't be able to store 19mn Mt of product perfectly, let alone the govt.

I have seen old rice warehouses near Khon Kaen you wouldn't put pigs in let alone rice.

Goh, does that mean the Yingluck government was totally ignorant or acted even more criminally than I thought with their RPPS?

Possible answer: the Yingluck government was aware of problems with internationally prices of rice dropping. By not selling any rice bought via the RPPS but just storing it their tried to hide the growing losses expected.

Sorry, I'm out of likes. You are spot on, but it goes deeper than that. The government, being the rice hub of, uh, Thailand, believed if they bought that rice and took it off the market, that the world price of rice would soar. So they paid the rice farmers much more than the value of the rice atm "betting the come."

When the world price of rice instead dropped due to increased exports by India in particular, the government panicked. They had committed to the deal with massive loans from the Ag Bank which were quickly going bad.

So Yingluck visited many foreign countries trying to borrow 2 trillion baht for a high speed rail. If the loan had been available, enough money could have been siphoned from the high speed rail to bail out the rice scheme.

The YS government was obviously stuck and couldn't move at all and they didn't. Farmers didn't get paid and no rice was sold despite many lies about GTG sales. Rice wasn't sold because it is the collateral for the massive loans and selling it would prove the loss by the bank.

Anyone notice that no rice is being sold now either? One would think that would be job 1 as it is inventoried, but the Junta can't allow the bank to go under either. The rice will sit.

[oldsailor35]

Pay the farmers, sell the rice for animal feed , clear out the silo's. Writ everything off and start again. No point in hanging on to it. Just pursue the the bloody silo owners and managers.............get on with it and stop bickering.

[rubl]

There was always going to be gap. Thaksin mused that Thailand could corner the market. Dumb idea that was. There was always gojng to be some kind of shortfall.

Every subsidy programming in the world has a shortfall. Someone gets paid above market price for something. That's a loss

If every subsidy program in the world has a shortfall that would seem to confirm that the RPPS to be financed through a specially set up revolving funds was not a subsidy. The idea was to pay out from it and restore for sales of rice. Worst case break-even, wishful thinking case profitable.

Edited July 6, 2014 by rubl

[Suriya4]

This is the work of Yingluck and her gang. They have to pay for all the losses through their own corrupted wealth. Confiscate their assets now before Thaksin ship it out to Dubai or use it to buy another Diamond mine or invest in another football club.

[waza]

That's 90% of the point they don't.

They have run this stockpile for 3 years now.

Rice is normally out of the country in 1 season. Why?

Because you can't story millions of tonnes of rice in the Thai climate without infestation and quality deterioration or mould. The private sector wouldn't be able to store 19mn Mt of product perfectly, let alone the govt.

I have seen old rice warehouses near Khon Kaen you wouldn't put pigs in let alone rice.

Goh, does that mean the Yingluck government was totally ignorant or acted even more criminally than I thought with their RPPS?

Possible answer: the Yingluck government was aware of problems with internationally prices of rice dropping. By not selling any rice bought via the RPPS but just storing it their tried to hide the growing losses expected.

Sorry, I'm out of likes. You are spot on, but it goes deeper than that. The government, being the rice hub of, uh, Thailand, believed if they bought that rice and took it off the market, that the world price of rice would soar. So they paid the rice farmers much more than the value of the rice atm "betting the come."

When the world price of rice instead dropped due to increased exports by India in particular, the government panicked. They had committed to the deal with massive loans from the Ag Bank which were quickly going bad.

So Yingluck visited many foreign countries trying to borrow 2 trillion baht for a high speed rail. If the loan had been available, enough money could have been siphoned from the high speed rail to bail out the rice scheme.

The YS government was obviously stuck and couldn't move at all and they didn't. Farmers didn't get paid and no rice was sold despite many lies about GTG sales. Rice wasn't sold because it is the collateral for the massive loans and selling it would prove the loss by the bank.

Anyone notice that no rice is being sold now either? One would think that would be job 1 as it is inventoried, but the Junta can't allow the bank to go under either. The rice will sit.

However, once the truth of the monumental failure of this scam was realised the PTP decided to continue the deception. i guess it was just too darn prfitable.

"Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said a rice-purchase program should be extended for several more years, rebuffing critics who say the policy has increased government debt and encouraged corruption.....“If we manipulate the mechanism for two years, three years, then things will be moving naturally,” Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and has lived overseas since fleeing a 2008 jail sentence, said in Singapore today. “The rice price in the world market is increasing.......“We do not just throw away the money,” Thaksin said. The program will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis, he said.” http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

[Thai at Heart]

There was always going to be gap. Thaksin mused that Thailand could corner the market. Dumb idea that was. There was always gojng to be some kind of shortfall.

Every subsidy programming in the world has a shortfall. Someone gets paid above market price for something. That's a loss

If every subsidy program in the world has a shortfall that would seem to confirm that the RPPS to be financed through a specially set up revolving funds was not a subsidy. The idea was to pay out from it and restore for sales of rice. Worst case break-even, wishful thinking case profitable.

That was the folly. Beleiveing that the product was so special and that they could command the market so that it would be self funding. That was an idiotic assumption.

[englishoak]

There was always going to be gap. Thaksin mused that Thailand could corner the market. Dumb idea that was. There was always gojng to be some kind of shortfall.

Every subsidy programming in the world has a shortfall. Someone gets paid above market price for something. That's a loss

If every subsidy program in the world has a shortfall that would seem to confirm that the RPPS to be financed through a specially set up revolving funds was not a subsidy. The idea was to pay out from it and restore for sales of rice. Worst case break-even, wishful thinking case profitable.

That was the folly. Beleiveing that the product was so special and that they could command the market so that it would be self funding. That was an idiotic assumption.

Thats what happens when you think the rest of the world needs Thai jasmine rice even though theres plenty of other types around, the world dosnt live on Hom Mali just Thailand, Rice is rice and the poor eat what they can afford to buy and other countries ramped up the growing a few years back it had got to the point of being about 35% more expensive than Indian or long grain even more difference. not sure what type of rice was grown for all the export.

Nigeria Ivory coast and Benin wernt going to care what rice it got as long as it was cheap Iraq and Indionesia the same and other nations had already ramped up the growing tonnage to compete and so it got cheaper. Wasnt ever going to be anything but a loss.

[Trouble]

I bet Yingluck can feel the noose tightening around her neck.

I hope they have her passport and have her on the 'no-fly' list along with many of her government cronies who mostly could be found hanging out with the US consuls.

On another note 152,000 sacks of rice weighing 15.18 tonnes.... WOW, that's 99 grams per sack.

Bet she is not worried at all. As yet I have seen nothing come out in all this that leads to corruption on her part. Bad accounting, Bad storage, fraud in the warehouses, rotting rice - you can't blame that all on Yingluck. If anything it sounds like low-level fraud to me. So let's wait until the investigation is over.

The purpose of the rice pledging scheme was not to commit fraud and corruption but to buy the votes of the rice farmers. This is not unlike any other government program in any country in the world which is enacted to benefit a group of people and help the constituencies of the politicians. God knows we see it in the USA all the time. Funding work projects or not closing a military base in a certain congressional district because of the local pressure is all part of the game. Nothing new in Thailand either. Don't they have price subsidies for all sorts of things, petrol comes to mind. It's about securing the support of the voters and thus insuring the party stays in power.

[ClutchClark]

I bet Yingluck can feel the noose tightening around her neck.

I hope they have her passport and have her on the 'no-fly' list along with many of her government cronies who mostly could be found hanging out with the US consuls.

On another note 152,000 sacks of rice weighing 15.18 tonnes.... WOW, that's 99 grams per sack.

Bet she is not worried at all. As yet I have seen nothing come out in all this that leads to corruption on her part. Bad accounting, Bad storage, fraud in the warehouses, rotting rice - you can't blame that all on Yingluck. If anything it sounds like low-level fraud to me. So let's wait until the investigation is over.

The purpose of the rice pledging scheme was not to commit fraud and corruption but to buy the votes of the rice farmers. This is not unlike any other government program in any country in the world which is enacted to benefit a group of people and help the constituencies of the politicians. God knows we see it in the USA all the time. Funding work projects or not closing a military base in a certain congressional district because of the local pressure is all part of the game. Nothing new in Thailand either. Don't they have price subsidies for all sorts of things, petrol comes to mind. It's about securing the support of the voters and thus insuring the party stays in power.

From what I have read over the past two years, the primary purpose of the rice pledging scheme was exactly to commit fraud for financial gain. Its only that the smart thief knows that if you drop a few coins on the way out of the bank for passersby to pocket then they will be less likely to sound the alarm ;-)

[wealth]

That's 90% of the point they don't.

They have run this stockpile for 3 years now.

Rice is normally out of the country in 1 season. Why?

Because you can't story millions of tonnes of rice in the Thai climate without infestation and quality deterioration or mould. The private sector wouldn't be able to store 19mn Mt of product perfectly, let alone the govt.

I have seen old rice warehouses near Khon Kaen you wouldn't put pigs in let alone rice.

Goh, does that mean the Yingluck government was totally ignorant or acted even more criminally than I thought with their RPPS?

Possible answer: the Yingluck government was aware of problems with internationally prices of rice dropping. By not selling any rice bought via the RPPS but just storing it their tried to hide the growing losses expected.

Sorry, I'm out of likes. You are spot on, but it goes deeper than that. The government, being the rice hub of, uh, Thailand, believed if they bought that rice and took it off the market, that the world price of rice would soar. So they paid the rice farmers much more than the value of the rice atm "betting the come."

When the world price of rice instead dropped due to increased exports by India in particular, the government panicked. They had committed to the deal with massive loans from the Ag Bank which were quickly going bad.

So Yingluck visited many foreign countries trying to borrow 2 trillion baht for a high speed rail. If the loan had been available, enough money could have been siphoned from the high speed rail to bail out the rice scheme.

The YS government was obviously stuck and couldn't move at all and they didn't. Farmers didn't get paid and no rice was sold despite many lies about GTG sales. Rice wasn't sold because it is the collateral for the massive loans and selling it would prove the loss by the bank.

Anyone notice that no rice is being sold now either? One would think that would be job 1 as it is inventoried, but the Junta can't allow the bank to go under either. The rice will sit.

However, once the truth of the monumental failure of this scam was realised the PTP decided to continue the deception. i guess it was just too darn prfitable.

"Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said a rice-purchase program should be extended for several more years, rebuffing critics who say the policy has increased government debt and encouraged corruption.....“If we manipulate the mechanism for two years, three years, then things will be moving naturally,” Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and has lived overseas since fleeing a 2008 jail sentence, said in Singapore today. “The rice price in the world market is increasing.......“We do not just throw away the money,” Thaksin said. The program will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis, he said.” http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

It's just a question of time when arrest warrants are out for Thaksin. Here again, he mingled in politics.

At the end he will be nailed for genocide he defended so vigorously. Order to shoot ... came from whom?

[djjamie]

There was always going to be gap. Thaksin mused that Thailand could corner the market. Dumb idea that was. There was always gojng to be some kind of shortfall.

Every subsidy programming in the world has a shortfall. Someone gets paid above market price for something. That's a loss

If every subsidy program in the world has a shortfall that would seem to confirm that the RPPS to be financed through a specially set up revolving funds was not a subsidy. The idea was to pay out from it and restore for sales of rice. Worst case break-even, wishful thinking case profitable.

That was the folly. Beleiveing that the product was so special and that they could command the market so that it would be self funding. That was an idiotic assumption.

Thats what happens when you think the rest of the world needs Thai jasmine rice even though theres plenty of other types around, the world dosnt live on Hom Mali just Thailand, Rice is rice and the poor eat what they can afford to buy and other countries ramped up the growing a few years back it had got to the point of being about 35% more expensive than Indian or long grain even more difference. not sure what type of rice was grown for all the export.

Nigeria Ivory coast and Benin wernt going to care what rice it got as long as it was cheap Iraq and Indionesia the same and other nations had already ramped up the growing tonnage to compete and so it got cheaper. Wasnt ever going to be anything but a loss.

Nice post and great content.

What are your views on the PTP lying over 6 times to the public when they said the rice scheme was funded until March, 2014?

I appreciate any reply.

Edited July 6, 2014 by djjamie

[Thai at Heart]

There was always going to be gap. Thaksin mused that Thailand could corner the market. Dumb idea that was. There was always gojng to be some kind of shortfall.

Every subsidy programming in the world has a shortfall. Someone gets paid above market price for something. That's a loss

If every subsidy program in the world has a shortfall that would seem to confirm that the RPPS to be financed through a specially set up revolving funds was not a subsidy. The idea was to pay out from it and restore for sales of rice. Worst case break-even, wishful thinking case profitable.

That was the folly. Beleiveing that the product was so special and that they could command the market so that it would be self funding. That was an idiotic assumption.

Thats what happens when you think the rest of the world needs Thai jasmine rice even though theres plenty of other types around, the world dosnt live on Hom Mali just Thailand, Rice is rice and the poor eat what they can afford to buy and other countries ramped up the growing a few years back it had got to the point of being about 35% more expensive than Indian or long grain even more difference. not sure what type of rice was grown for all the export.

Nigeria Ivory coast and Benin wernt going to care what rice it got as long as it was cheap Iraq and Indionesia the same and other nations had already ramped up the growing tonnage to compete and so it got cheaper. Wasnt ever going to be anything but a loss.

Nice post and great content.

What are your views on the PTP lying over 6 times to the public when they said the rice scheme was funded until March, 2014?

I appreciate any reply.

Hohhohoh.

Oh right. Yes it was funded. By fresh funds because they couldn't liquidate the stock at the right value and volume. They planned quite simply to keep funding it with fresh funds.

Not sure if they lied 6 times, but it would have been very naive that it wasn't fresh funds.

So by that token, Yingluck should be slung in the clink. Oh the idealism. We have a bloke over here claiming to be a peace envoy to the most disturbed part of the world whose lies cost lives and he gets off Scott free.

Yes the rice thingamajig was funded. By state funds.