40 yo and still no children and wife

[Jay1]

So what many of you mean is...

"I have no interest in making sacrifices to give life to another human being so that they themselves can enjoy this magical world and all of the pleasures of it, I would rather spend all of my time and energy making only myself happy" ?

But they don't exist so they are not going to know what they are missing.

[farang000999]

Maybe sit down with a therapist?

[brewsterbudgen]

Good thread. I'm 54 and have never had kids. I never thought I'd want to, but I am now thinking otherwise. My GF is only 24 and she wants kids, so I guess it may happen if we stay together (4 years so far). It seems to be far more common these days.

[ClutchClark]

So what many of you mean is...

"I have no interest in making sacrifices to give life to another human being so that they themselves can enjoy this magical world and all of the pleasures of it, I would rather spend all of my time and energy making only myself happy" ?

Boy, I didn't hear anybody saying that at all.

I am a father, grandfather and great-grandfather and I will be the very first to stand up for the OP or anyone else who exercises their right to not have children. There are plenty of children in the world already and quite a few unwanted and suffering.

Nobody has to give life to another human being.

It is not a requirement and it is up to every human being to make their own choice.

[ClutchClark]

There are plenty of children in the world who were brought into the world by people who really should never have been parents. Don't join this club just because the rest of the herd tells you to.

That's the second time this herd word has popped up in this thread.

It's a laughable concept, especially in the west, and especially in the last fifty years or so.

In fact, in this regard Thailand now shares the same attitude as the West but Thailand has maybe taken it too far as the birth rate has plummeted.

Social pressure now is to not have children, or to have a small family.

There is nothing "herdish" in having children.

In fact, in the West its almost at the point of becoming unique.

There's nothing noble in not having children.

That doesn't make you unique - you are the new norm. And here's the bitter truth about it - outside your close family - no one cares.

I've seen the rise of the childless couple - and I couldn't care less about that either.

Just the same way as I couldn't care less when the husband dies and leaves their wife alone.

Then loneliness becomes the new norm.

I bet you know how that feels already. Get used to it - its not going to get any better.

When those close to you die - and you join the vast ranks of the discarded elderly - then you'll really feel it. If you're lucky you'll die suddenly in your sleep, if you're unlucky you'll enter into a long slow decline. And no one will be interested.

No sons will take you out to watch a sports match. No daughters will invite you round for a thanksgiving dinner.

You won't see your grandchildren graduate. You'll just turn to dust and be gone.

And no one will care. No one will care.

Up to you.

You made a thread about an experience that was beautiful and turned it into something quite ugly.

Who are you to judge another man's personal decisions and then wish him a life of misfortune on top of it.

[Pattszero]

So what many of you mean is...

"I have no interest in making sacrifices to give life to another human being so that they themselves can enjoy this magical world and all of the pleasures of it, I would rather spend all of my time and energy making only myself happy" ?

Boy, I didn't hear anybody saying that at all.

I am a father, grandfather and great-grandfather and I will be the very first to stand up for the OP or anyone else who exercises their right to not have children. There are plenty of children in the world already and quite a few unwanted and suffering.

Nobody has to give life to another human being.

It is not a requirement and it is up to every human being to make their own choice.

Yes, but there's no need to denigrate by using pejorative words such as "herd."

[bkkjames]

Getting married and having our two sons was the best thing I ever did. Would I want to go back to single / fatherless life? Never.

[opalred]

i would keep out of gay bars and hang around the massage joints

[kannot]

43 before I got married , no kids, now 50.....................trying though

[Pattszero]

There are plenty of children in the world who were brought into the world by people who really should never have been parents. Don't join this club just because the rest of the herd tells you to.

That's the second time this herd word has popped up in this thread.

It's a laughable concept, especially in the west, and especially in the last fifty years or so.

In fact, in this regard Thailand now shares the same attitude as the West but Thailand has maybe taken it too far as the birth rate has plummeted.

Social pressure now is to not have children, or to have a small family.

There is nothing "herdish" in having children.

In fact, in the West its almost at the point of becoming unique.

There's nothing noble in not having children.

That doesn't make you unique - you are the new norm. And here's the bitter truth about it - outside your close family - no one cares.

I've seen the rise of the childless couple - and I couldn't care less about that either.

Just the same way as I couldn't care less when the husband dies and leaves their wife alone.

Then loneliness becomes the new norm.

I bet you know how that feels already. Get used to it - its not going to get any better.

When those close to you die - and you join the vast ranks of the discarded elderly - then you'll really feel it. If you're lucky you'll die suddenly in your sleep, if you're unlucky you'll enter into a long slow decline. And no one will be interested.

No sons will take you out to watch a sports match. No daughters will invite you round for a thanksgiving dinner.

You won't see your grandchildren graduate. You'll just turn to dust and be gone.

And no one will care. No one will care.

Up to you.

You made a thread about an experience that was beautiful and turned it into something quite ugly.

Who are you to judge another man's personal decisions and then wish him a life of misfortune on top of it.

There's nothing ugly in my post. Just a riposte to the arrogance of the word "herd."

Who are these people to demean those that have chosen to give birth?

And where did I wish a life of misfortune?

I outlined that path that is awaiting this generation.

I can guarantee there will be people who are reading this thread that already understand and are feeling the condition I describe.

That's why so many men come to Thailand looking for love.

Because they are lonely.

[arthurwait]

It's these Thai related threads that I love.

[Pattszero]

It's these Thai related threads that I love.

I'd say this thread was Thai related as it deals with a primary reason why many men come to the country. Looking for a wife, looking for love, looking to start a family.

[Sealbash]

There are plenty of children in the world who were brought into the world by people who really should never have been parents. Don't join this club just because the rest of the herd tells you to.

That's the second time this herd word has popped up in this thread.

It's a laughable concept, especially in the west, and especially in the last fifty years or so.

In fact, in this regard Thailand now shares the same attitude as the West but Thailand has maybe taken it too far as the birth rate has plummeted.

Social pressure now is to not have children, or to have a small family.

There is nothing "herdish" in having children.

In fact, in the West its almost at the point of becoming unique.

There's nothing noble in not having children.

That doesn't make you unique - you are the new norm. And here's the bitter truth about it - outside your close family - no one cares.

I've seen the rise of the childless couple - and I couldn't care less about that either.

Just the same way as I couldn't care less when the husband dies and leaves their wife alone.

Then loneliness becomes the new norm.

I bet you know how that feels already. Get used to it - its not going to get any better.

When those close to you die - and you join the vast ranks of the discarded elderly - then you'll really feel it. If you're lucky you'll die suddenly in your sleep, if you're unlucky you'll enter into a long slow decline. And no one will be interested.

No sons will take you out to watch a sports match. No daughters will invite you round for a thanksgiving dinner.

You won't see your grandchildren graduate. You'll just turn to dust and be gone.

And no one will care. No one will care.

Up to you.

So having children is just a selfish thing? So someone will care about you when you are old? So you think you will not be lonely? Children are simply to ensure you enjoy your later years?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[krisb]

These should I have children threads always end up in heavy debate.

I'm not here to fight for one side or the other.

I do know though having a child and them looking back at you with nothing but love is really beautiful. Being in the hospital while she gives birth, and the nurse hands you your child, I don't care how tough you are, you'll cry tears of happiness. The whole 9 month journey is really exciting! The look of pure joy when your parents get the rite of passage and rise to the new rank of grandparents and get to hold the baby for the first time, and chase them around is great to watch, it keeps them feeling young. Seeing your partner be a parent, brings you both closer, even if it can be testing, it's worth being tired from lack of sleep. I love coming home from work and she starts clapping and yelling Daddddyyy! Makes a bad day suddenly really insignificant.

Funny thing is, I'm laying in bed writing this, my child gave me a cold. It's ok I forgive her.

[Pattszero]

There are plenty of children in the world who were brought into the world by people who really should never have been parents. Don't join this club just because the rest of the herd tells you to.

That's the second time this herd word has popped up in this thread.

It's a laughable concept, especially in the west, and especially in the last fifty years or so.

In fact, in this regard Thailand now shares the same attitude as the West but Thailand has maybe taken it too far as the birth rate has plummeted.

Social pressure now is to not have children, or to have a small family.

There is nothing "herdish" in having children.

In fact, in the West its almost at the point of becoming unique.

There's nothing noble in not having children.

That doesn't make you unique - you are the new norm. And here's the bitter truth about it - outside your close family - no one cares.

I've seen the rise of the childless couple - and I couldn't care less about that either.

Just the same way as I couldn't care less when the husband dies and leaves their wife alone.

Then loneliness becomes the new norm.

I bet you know how that feels already. Get used to it - its not going to get any better.

When those close to you die - and you join the vast ranks of the discarded elderly - then you'll really feel it. If you're lucky you'll die suddenly in your sleep, if you're unlucky you'll enter into a long slow decline. And no one will be interested.

No sons will take you out to watch a sports match. No daughters will invite you round for a thanksgiving dinner.

You won't see your grandchildren graduate. You'll just turn to dust and be gone.

And no one will care. No one will care.

Up to you.

So having children is just a selfish thing? So someone will care about you when you are old? So you think you will not be lonely? Children are simply to ensure you enjoy your later years?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

That is a primary drive for having children in the agrarian world - of course you knew that already.

In the west, its less so.

Having children is to take a holistic approach to your life. I don't know many parents who have not despaired at some point. But your children are a lifelong commitment, and the investment is paid up front.

The reward you get is to have someone that cares about you in later years. Very often, that someone is your grandchildren rather than your own children. Many grandparents I know describe the love they feel and receive from their grandkids as being indescribably wonderful.

So its a whole life approach - a fifty year relationship.

In latter years things adjust, the child often becomes the carer. That's the way of life.

Shortly I will accompany my father on a cruise to Alaska, it's a lifetime dream of his - and you have no idea how much I will love every moment of that.

So even now in his older age, my father brings me joy and life affirming experiences.

And you reduce it to "selfishness."

What an absurd point of view.

[NanLaew]

Good thread. I'm 54 and have never had kids. I never thought I'd want to, but I am now thinking otherwise. My GF is only 24 and she wants kids, so I guess it may happen if we stay together (4 years so far). It seems to be far more common these days.

Do it and make two people happy. When I was 24, newly married and working in China, my boss who was about 38 came back from the birth of his first kid in Bangkok and told me not to wait as long as he did to start a family. I didn't have any sprogs from my first marriage (always a good thing in retrospect) but when I returned to living in Thailand after a 12 year break, I was already looking at 50. When I looked at the local expat crowd, I decided that old and lonely and shagging Miss Right Now, despite being loads of fun and a huge macho trip, was not the way I wanted to carry on. Most of my buddies from my first 10 years in LOS (the ones that stuck around) all had almost grown families and were some of the most contented chaps I have ever met. Our boy is 6 now and the love of my life (so is the wife) but... she says she still wants a little girl as well.

Mate of mine had 2 kids from his first wife here and they are all grown up and just getting through college back in the US. He got divorced while the kids were still pretty young. His second wife, who was maybe a 20 year-old babe when they tied the knot, agreed back then when he said he didn't want any more family. However, now she's turning 28 and he's turning 58, she says she wants to have kids of her own.

And he was just getting his retirement goalposts in focus too... careful what you wish for!

[KittenKong]

Can you give us some examples of some of the things you have decided to do with your life that has been better than providing for and giving life to a child?

The phrase was "meaningful and fulfilling", not "better".

I've done many things that are more meaningful and fulfilling. Doing a good job and leaving my client satisfied. Or giving money to charity. Or helping an old lady across the road. Or even having a nice lunch.

Those sorts of things I manage to do more or less every day, not just once or twice in a lifetime.

Procreation is merely an animal instinct that takes no special skill or ability to achieve.

I see nothing to be proud of there, especially when the planet is collapsing under the dead weight of the human population on it. In fact I think that people without children should be rewarded and those with children, especially more than one child, should be penalised. They shouldn't be allowed on planes or in restaurants either.

[krisb]

Can you give us some examples of some of the things you have decided to do with your life that has been better than providing for and giving life to a child?

The phrase was "meaningful and fulfilling", not "better".

I've done many things that are more meaningful and fulfilling. Doing a good job and leaving my client satisfied. Or giving money to charity. Or helping an old lady across the road. Or even having a nice lunch.

Those sorts of things I manage to do more or less every day, not just once or twice in a lifetime.

Procreation is merely an animal instinct that takes no special skill or ability to achieve.

I see nothing to be proud of there, especially when the planet is collapsing under the dead weight of the human population on it. In fact I think that people without children should be rewarded and those with children, especially more than one child, should be penalised. They shouldn't be allowed on planes or in restaurants either.

And what reward do you think you should get and how should your parents be penalised exactly?

On 2nd thoughts, don't bother.

Have a nice lunch tomorrow won't you and don't forget to help the old lady cross the road.

Edited July 7, 2014 by krisb

[Yooyung]

I was sure that I wasnt going to have any kids....this was throughout my twenties and then into my early thirties. At the age of 33 I met my wife. It wasnt long after getting married that the inevitable happened and she told me she was pregnant.....DUH! Ok, so at first it worried me. My initial reaction was "oh well, there goes my freedom". I, stupidly I admit had not really prepared myself for it. I told my wife to take a year off work and I became the sole bread winner for that time. My salary was ok and we got by because we were, and still are genuinelly in love. In the back of my mind I knew that this lady that I married was mother material...I think we all know it when we meet certain women, that we just seem to 'click' with. It felt REALLY good to be the responsible man that was bringing home the bacon, like a good ole 1950's style set up. I had a lot of time to consider what being a father was going to be like. The idea started to grow on me, slowly but surely.

As I waited for my son to be wheeled out ( my wife had a ceasarian) I had a very strange feeling of unease. Its a big thing to happen to a person that has lived a very carefree life for all their 20's and into their 30's. To be honest, when I saw my son there was no great revelation. I looked at the little fellah and, I think maybe because I didnt actually see the birth felt a little disconnected. Still, I was happy, but more than that it made me focus, really focus. Seeing him for the first time really made it hit home that, everything I would do from that point on needed to include him in the bargain. I made the decision then and there that, its likely I may not be the world most natural father ,so one child would be enough. I thought it better to try and give my one son as much as I could, while also myself having time for myself. Some say that sounds selfish, I think its practical. Happy parents usually make for happy children. I knew that I would not be the kind of man that could tolerate being tied down 24/7 with 3 screaming kids. One child allows us to go on holidays together without too much fuss, everything is doable, the cost of education etc is all reasonable. We are a very close family now.

My wife wants another child. I am 40 now. I still feel the same way about it. Having another child now, well its too late as far as I can see. I am a fit 40 year old, when I am 55 my son will be 21. I am pretty sure that I will still be pretty strong then and I would love to go travelling with my son. Having the one child at a reasonable age makes such hopes possible. I really think that leaving it too late is not a good idea. I know its not easy to meet the right woman in the most ideal of circumstances...let alone Thailand. However, there are a lot of genuinelly decent Thai women that have reached the age of 30 and are still single. Keep in mind that 30 + is deemed as being old for a woman in this culture.......but its NOT for us! I wouldnt hang around waiting till your 50 if I were you...strike while the iron is hot....and have fun looking!!!

Goodluck

[Cypress Hill]

Marriage and kids?

The biggest, most insidious trap mankind has ever devised. One designed to leverage key fundamental instincts to ensure that as many of us as possible stand still enough to generate revenue for the state.

The whole trap - school, job/career, girl/guy, marriage, mortgage/credit card debt, procreation and never-ending acquisition of consumer tat with which to compare yourself to other equally vacuous lemmings - is aimed at a majority too scared to question their programming lest they find themselves "left behind". They believe these things will somehow validate life choices that, thanks to the power of marketing - were never really theirs to make in the first place.

Yes it's a cynical view but given how many men emerge from the trap skint, bitter and mistrustful, I bet they wish they'd looked at it more closely.

OP should be absolutely ECSTATIC that he's been fortunate enough to elude this nonsense.

God knows I am

[MrWorldwide]

There are plenty of children in the world who were brought into the world by people who really should never have been parents. Don't join this club just because the rest of the herd tells you to.

Yep - my parents, for starters.

[up-country_sinclair]

Having kids is really the most meaningful and fulfilling thing that can happen to anyone's life ...

Only if your life prior to that was totally empty, and you cant think of doing anything better with it than produce more people. Many parents are like this, and they can be an incredibly boring lot.

Personally I cant think of much worse than being married and having children. Well, maybe Ebola.

Can you give us some examples of some of the things you have decided to do with your life that has been better than providing for and giving life to a child?

Enjoying a life that is full of peace and quiet.

Enjoying a life that allows my wife and I to go where we want, when we want.

Enjoying the stress free life of not being responsible for another human being for (at the very least) 18 years.

Enjoying life in the moment, not postponing it for decades.

Many people find pleasure in breeding and raising a litter, but it's not for all of us. Being child-free is the best decision my wife and I ever made

[jdinasia]

So what many of you mean is...

"I have no interest in making sacrifices to give life to another human being so that they themselves can enjoy this magical world and all of the pleasures of it, I would rather spend all of my time and energy making only myself happy" ?

That is simply a fallacious argument. See Straw man or False Dilemma.

[up-country_sinclair]

Procreation is merely an animal instinct that takes no special skill or ability to achieve.

I see nothing to be proud of there, especially when the planet is collapsing under the dead weight of the human population on it. In fact I think that people without children should be rewarded and those with children, especially more than one child, should be penalised. They shouldn't be allowed on planes or in restaurants either.

Hear, hear!

[Seastallion]

When i married at 27 the last thing in the world i wanted was kids ,then my daughter came along , since then i have a son with my wife now ,if there was a God i would be down on my knees every day thanking him. as you get older you ralize that familly is more precious than anything in the world.

I got married at 18, she was 17. Far too young, as we grew up, we grew into different people, not the people that fell in love.

My marriage didn't work out, but there is absolutely no regret because my kids are indescribably the best thing in the world to me.

[up-country_sinclair]

my kids are indescribably the best thing in the world to me.

Different strokes, and all that.

Good for you.

[In Search of Space]

Lucky bugger

[nottocus]

Read the OP…that's it.

Never wanted kids….never wanted to get married….did so at 41.

Best thing I've done…kept me on a middle path rather than a blazing highway to hell.

[David48]

... the second time this herd word has popped up in this thread.

It's a laughable concept, especially in the west, and especially in the last fifty years or so.

In fact, in this regard Thailand now shares the same attitude as the West but Thailand has maybe taken it too far as the birth rate has plummeted.

Social pressure now is to not have children, or to have a small family.

There is nothing "herdish" in having children.

In fact, in the West its almost at the point of becoming unique.

There's nothing noble in not having children.

That doesn't make you unique - you are the new norm. And here's the bitter truth about it - outside your close family - no one cares.

I've seen the rise of the childless couple - and I couldn't care less about that either.

Just the same way as I couldn't care less when the husband dies and leaves their wife alone.

Then loneliness becomes the new norm.

I bet you know how that feels already. Get used to it - its not going to get any better.

When those close to you die - and you join the vast ranks of the discarded elderly - then you'll really feel it. If you're lucky you'll die suddenly in your sleep, if you're unlucky you'll enter into a long slow decline. And no one will be interested.

No sons will take you out to watch a sports match. No daughters will invite you round for a thanksgiving dinner.

You won't see your grandchildren graduate. You'll just turn to dust and be gone.

And no one will care. No one will care.

Up to you.

First off ... I agree with the thrust of the above post.

Sure, it's worded directly, almost aggressively ... the substance is solid.

When I first read the OP, I was tempted to write then, as another member (krisb from memory) mentioned ... these type of question is very dividing ... sometimes derisive.

But time for a positive contribution.

I hit 40, then late forties before I met the woman who's value set matched mine, who's friendship I could not live without.

Hence a relationship ensued, then children, and in the future, marriage.

My Dad was middle 50's when I was born. An older dude ... sure. But, do you think for one second he didn't make the right decision ... I'm sure as heck glad he did!

It's not for everyone.

But it is for me.

I've lived a privileged, but a working man's life. Privileged in the fact that my parents set my moral compass in the right direction, made me earn my pocket money which taught me the value of money, later I put myself through University as a mature age student.

In 20 years time, I'll ask the boys if I made the right decision 2 decades earlier ... we know what the answer will be.

It's not for everyone ... but for me, for my Partner, a family was the right choice.

Here is why, every day is a blessing for me. I just hope that I can be a capable and able parent.

.

[krisb]

Marriage and kids?

The biggest, most insidious trap mankind has ever devised. One designed to leverage key fundamental instincts to ensure that as many of us as possible stand still enough to generate revenue for the state.

The whole trap - school, job/career, girl/guy, marriage, mortgage/credit card debt, procreation and never-ending acquisition of consumer tat with which to compare yourself to other equally vacuous lemmings - is aimed at a majority too scared to question their programming lest they find themselves "left behind". They believe these things will somehow validate life choices that, thanks to the power of marketing - were never really theirs to make in the first place.

Yes it's a cynical view but given how many men emerge from the trap skint, bitter and mistrustful, I bet they wish they'd looked at it more closely.

OP should be absolutely ECSTATIC that he's been fortunate enough to elude this nonsense.

God knows I am

Like it's a conspiracy theory.

I also agree your parents made the wrong choice having you.

That is what you're saying right?