Chicago police: Gun laws blamed for weekend killings

[The Deerhunter]

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80732762/

I love gchurch259's comment. Before I left my country (not USof A) I sold all my handguns because legal storage of them while I am a way causes cruel hardship to bureaucrats. Long guns are are less streesful to bureaucrats and I have a number of them. I am confident thay are behaving themselves and have caused no trouble to anyone in my absence.

[jope]

Chicago, New York all of the major cities in the US have extremely tight gun control laws. In NY the new mayor stopped the stop and frisk rules for the police and murders immediately went up. I am from the US and am very familiar with gun control, the criminal control is the problem. We let these gangs come in from different countries and they control the streets. If you look into the cause of street violence that is what the problem is. The problem with the mass shootings if looked closely enough is that most of the people do not take into consideration that all were on some type of drug prescribed by doctors. Also most used stolen or someone else's guns.

I cannot believe that people that do not know about the law's of the USA comment on our problems mainly caused by inept politicians, and there feel good attitude towards crime, immigration and drugs. I am in Thailand and I do not know the laws here about ownership of guns but is see gun violence daily in the news. are everywhere in the world and it will be always be so, guns are everywhere.

Almost all the gun violence in the OP was black-on-black. They were not from different countries...but you are most likely correct that most of the firearms were stolen. Maybe the thing to do is to make harsher sentences for gun owners who allow their firearms to be stolen.

Gun owners who allow their property to be stolen should be punished? That's rich. You must be in politics.

Germany: up to 10.000 Euro fine or up to 3 years imprisonment for failing to secure weapons against theft. If your gun is actually stolen, you are in deep trouble. We are rather happy with this regulation (but would preffer a no guns at all except for the police policy). I am surprised though that US laws alledgedly do not have such regulations. Are you certain?

[brianP]

My old hunting buddy had a burglary and a gun stolen. He had removed its firing pin because of his young kids living in the home. One week later a criminal held up a pawn shop and tried to shoot the security guard point blank in the face twice, but his gun mis-fired, the guard shot him dead, and 6 months later my buddy had his gun returned by the police.

I always enjoy a happy ending.

[neverdie]

Well,

Here we go again. The experts in this matter, ie: Police Superintendent, will tell us how it is and then all the nay sayers and gun slingers will race in and litter this spot with some more tosh and hyperbol.

The american laws and systems are killing its own people. When will they ever learn?

How much blood has to be spilt unnecessarily?

What a shame, a damn shame.

RIP to all those men, women and children that are being slaughtered so needlessly in the streets. Is this 2014?

Tell everybody about Port Arthur neverdie, and the changes that led to in Oz. They need our laws in the States desperately.

They don't want to hear it Trentham. I even sent Johnny Howard over to the states to talk to them about the problem but they weren't interested.

And nobody wants to hear from an old hack like me about it, afterall, what would I know about it, I was only one of those poor guys that use to be called to violent gun crimes to deal with people who were firing indiscriminately at people, I was just one of those guys who put my life of the line to stop such violent crimes, many of which came about due to inadequate laws and so forth.

The forum gun slingers cant bare to be told, they've made constant requests for me to go away, youre not american, whats your business, whats your crusade, you wouldnt understand and the list goes on.

Yet as every day passes, more Americans depart the earth, so unnecessarily at the hands of people who have easy access to firearms.

The Chicago Police chief knows what hes talking about but if they wont listen to him theyre certainly not going to listen to me........ poor simple b@stards.

Have a good day.

Tommorrow or the next day, there will be another slaughter of innocent americans, you can almost set your watch by it, according to the gun slingers, theres no problem, so its time to reinsert ones head into ones crevice and await the next bloodshed.

[ClutchClark]

One of the safest cities in USA has a law that requires every citizen, that is not mentally impaired or has Religious Objection, must own a firearm.

The irony of that Georgia community's law was it was passed by a bunch of 2nd Amendment nuts attempting to protect their US Constitutional "Rights" by removing other Americans Constitutional Rights to not own a gun.

[neverdie]

Well,

Here we go again. The experts in this matter, ie: Police Superintendent, will tell us how it is and then all the nay sayers and gun slingers will race in and litter this spot with some more tosh and hyperbol.

The american laws and systems are killing its own people. When will they ever learn?

How much blood has to be spilt unnecessarily?

What a shame, a damn shame.

RIP to all those men, women and children that are being slaughtered so needlessly in the streets. Is this 2014?

Tell everybody about Port Arthur neverdie, and the changes that led to in Oz. They need our laws in the States desperately.

What I would like to do though Trentham is expose some of these so called weapons gurus to some of the mess thats created by these weapons.

Id like to see the look on some of their faces when we clean up. The blood, the gutts, the gore, the pure emotion involved when it comes to bagging up dead children, innocent victims of crime.

I remember at one shooting I went to, several victims lay on the ground, i had to gather up their bits and place them into body bags. As I reached down and attempted to move the body of one victim I realised that her shattered skull had allowed her brain to exit rearwards and a section of it was now snagged around a section of tree branch.. The more I tried to untangle the brain the more it stuck to other parts of the finely woven branch. I could smell the blood and its congealing muck stuck to my gloves, it wasn't long before the front of my overalls were smeared with blood. As I moved onto the next victims I became confused about which tangled bit of mess belonged to which body......the damage to the human body after they have been shot multiple times by high powered weapons is insane.

Later that evening, as I undressed in my yard, outside my laundry door, I commenced to remove a few items from my pockets. I removed something from my top pocket and unsure of what it was I reached for the light switch only to reveal I was holding a section of human skull with hair attached to it, somehow in the dark it had fallen into my pocket without me realising it. I use to keep a special bucket for washing uniform, fouled in such a way. My wife, my family, they were forbidden to go near the bucket, nor were they allowed to witness me dealing with what laid within the bucket.

Dealing with the blood muck and grime of crime is only one thing, the hardest job of all is dealing with the loved ones, the family, the mothers, fathers and brothers.

Yep, don't see many of the gun slingers lining up for the gritty jobs, meanwhile thousands of dedicated Police and Paramedics and so forth are dealing with these issues, second by second, hour by hour, day by day, week after week, month after month, year after year.

Simply, failed policy and some old archaic constitution is letting the American people down, sadly some of them are too stupid to realise it.

[chuckd]

[Scott]

Inflammatory and off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

Anyone from anywhere is welcomed to post in this topic. All you need to do, is follow the rules.

[Neurath]

Well, at least they blamed gun laws and not guns - that would have been stupid. Guns don't kill people, gun laws do.

[landslide]

I am an American who has never owned a gun, and have no plans to ever own a gun. The problem in America is not permissive gun laws, but a lack of enforcement of those gun laws on the books. Until there are real consequences for the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, ie. a 10 year sentence enhancement for the non-fatal use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, mandatory life for use of a firearm in which a death occurs, 20 year enhancement for a felon in possesion of a firearm, there will be no reduction in weapons use by criminals. Stop and frisk dramatically lowered murders and assaults in New York, but the new mayor, de Blasio, catered to the minority complaints and suspended the law. Murders and assaults immediately increased. 91% of Chicago's firearms crimes are black on black, and the majority of those are gang related. If stop and frisk was implemented in Chicago, there would be a dramatic reduction in firearms crimes. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer, throwing the book at the use of a firearm in criminal activity is.

[chuckd]

Good post, Landslide.

I agree with throwing the book at the criminals that are caught using a gun in a felony, stop and frisk and whatever else can be done to get the guns out of the hands of criminals and gangs.

However, until Chicago gets their act together and passes some laws that might be considered constitutional, Chicago will always be trailing the criminal element. This out yesterday.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

City Of Chicago Ordered To Pay NRA’s Legal Fees – Again

5:47 PM 07/07/2014

Fairfax, Va. – The United States District Court in the Northern District of Illinois has ordered the City of Chicago to reimburse $940,000 in legal expenses incurred by the NRA. The NRA had challenged Chicago’s ban on gun sales within city limits in Benson v. City of Chicago. The Benson case was consolidated into Illinois Association of Firearm Retailers v. City of Chicago and that case challenged five aspects of Chicago’s law: (1) the ban on any form of carriage; (2) the ban on gun stores; (3) the ban on firing ranges; (4) the ban on self-defense in garages, porches, and yards; and (5) the ban on keeping more than one gun in an operable state.

This is the second time that the City of Chicago has been ordered to reimburse legal fees in a suit sponsored by the NRA. The first was following the U.S. Supreme Court’s landmark ruling in McDonald v. City of Chicago in which Chicago was ordered to reimburse the NRA more than $600,000.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/07/city-of-chicago-ordered-to-pay-nras-legal-fees-again/?advD=1248,272542

[beechguy]

Well,

Here we go again. The experts in this matter, ie: Police Superintendent, will tell us how it is and then all the nay sayers and gun slingers will race in and litter this spot with some more tosh and hyperbol.

The american laws and systems are killing its own people. When will they ever learn?

How much blood has to be spilt unnecessarily?

What a shame, a damn shame.

RIP to all those men, women and children that are being slaughtered so needlessly in the streets. Is this 2014?

Tell everybody about Port Arthur neverdie, and the changes that led to in Oz. They need our laws in the States desperately.

No, we don't.

[beechguy]

Well,

Here we go again. The experts in this matter, ie: Police Superintendent, will tell us how it is and then all the nay sayers and gun slingers will race in and litter this spot with some more tosh and hyperbol.

The american laws and systems are killing its own people. When will they ever learn?

How much blood has to be spilt unnecessarily?

What a shame, a damn shame.

RIP to all those men, women and children that are being slaughtered so needlessly in the streets. Is this 2014?

Tell everybody about Port Arthur neverdie, and the changes that led to in Oz. They need our laws in the States desperately.

What I would like to do though Trentham is expose some of these so called weapons gurus to some of the mess thats created by these weapons.

Id like to see the look on some of their faces when we clean up. The blood, the gutts, the gore, the pure emotion involved when it comes to bagging up dead children, innocent victims of crime.

I remember at one shooting I went to, several victims lay on the ground, i had to gather up their bits and place them into body bags. As I reached down and attempted to move the body of one victim I realised that her shattered skull had allowed her brain to exit rearwards and a section of it was now snagged around a section of tree branch.. The more I tried to untangle the brain the more it stuck to other parts of the finely woven branch. I could smell the blood and its congealing muck stuck to my gloves, it wasn't long before the front of my overalls were smeared with blood. As I moved onto the next victims I became confused about which tangled bit of mess belonged to which body......the damage to the human body after they have been shot multiple times by high powered weapons is insane.

Later that evening, as I undressed in my yard, outside my laundry door, I commenced to remove a few items from my pockets. I removed something from my top pocket and unsure of what it was I reached for the light switch only to reveal I was holding a section of human skull with hair attached to it, somehow in the dark it had fallen into my pocket without me realising it. I use to keep a special bucket for washing uniform, fouled in such a way. My wife, my family, they were forbidden to go near the bucket, nor were they allowed to witness me dealing with what laid within the bucket.

Dealing with the blood muck and grime of crime is only one thing, the hardest job of all is dealing with the loved ones, the family, the mothers, fathers and brothers.

Yep, don't see many of the gun slingers lining up for the gritty jobs, meanwhile thousands of dedicated Police and Paramedics and so forth are dealing with these issues, second by second, hour by hour, day by day, week after week, month after month, year after year.

Simply, failed policy and some old archaic constitution is letting the American people down, sadly some of them are too stupid to realise it.

You know you aren't the only one to see the damage resulting from being struck by a bullet. Get over it.

[beechguy]

I will agree with the Superintendent that the punishment isn't strong enough for people possessing illegal firearms, but punish the criminals, not the law abiding citizens.

As to availability, that's fine to try and tighten up on purchases in the surrounding area, but if they can't slow down the movement of illegal drugs, what would make them think they can slow down the import of firearms.

[copa8]

Just stay away from neighborhoods with heavy concentrations of blacks. Not familiar with Chicago, but in NYC, that would be Bed-Stuy, Jamaica, East NY, Harlem, etc.

[ChoakMyDee]

It's a very sick society that can't even protect their little ones. I would have thought that Sandy Hook would have convinced them to tighten up their gun laws considerably. As long as the NRA can buy the politicians nothing will change.

[beechguy]

It's a very sick society that can't even protect their little ones. I would have thought that Sandy Hook would have convinced them to tighten up their gun laws considerably. As long as the NRA can buy the politicians nothing will change.

And did the Sandy Hook shooter buy that weapon?

[ClutchClark]

Well, at least they blamed gun laws and not guns - that would have been stupid. Guns don't kill people, gun laws do.

This quote makes absolutely no sense.

[ChoakMyDee]

It's a very sick society that can't even protect their little ones. I would have thought that Sandy Hook would have convinced them to tighten up their gun laws considerably. As long as the NRA can buy the politicians nothing will change.

And did the Sandy Hook shooter buy that weapon?

I don't know if he bought the weapon or if it was transmitted from another galaxy via a wormhole...and I don't care.

[ClutchClark]

I am an American who has never owned a gun, and have no plans to ever own a gun. The problem in America is not permissive gun laws, but a lack of enforcement of those gun laws on the books. Until there are real consequences for the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, ie. a 10 year sentence enhancement for the non-fatal use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, mandatory life for use of a firearm in which a death occurs, 20 year enhancement for a felon in possesion of a firearm, there will be no reduction in weapons use by criminals. Stop and frisk dramatically lowered murders and assaults in New York, but the new mayor, de Blasio, catered to the minority complaints and suspended the law. Murders and assaults immediately increased. 91% of Chicago's firearms crimes are black on black, and the majority of those are gang related. If stop and frisk was implemented in Chicago, there would be a dramatic reduction in firearms crimes. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer, throwing the book at the use of a firearm in criminal activity is.

And you are willing to pay for those long-term incarceration costs in the form of higher taxes?

The reason I ask is that most Americans are upset their taxes are already too high and many teaparty members right here on TV think there should be no taxes.

Cheers

[hawker9000]

I wonder if "3D Printing" technology will ever reach the point where guns can be "printed". Find the digital file online somewhere, obtain the raw materials somewhere, and...? Even if the materials were expensive and hard to find, or even if the product were useable for only a limited number of rounds, the essential fact is that such a "self-manufactured" firearm would have no serial number or other history and be untraceable.

This has already been done and a pistol was made and assembled with I think 13 parts but the files were removed from the web by the feds.

By law, (a little help here neversure) a firearm can not be made 100% of composite materials so one part was made with an alloy that will set off the metal detector at the airport or the Federal courthouse or anywhere else some nutjob want s to go kill people.

You're kind of missing the point. The "Feds" can only force removals from U.S. webservers: such files only have to find their way to servers SOMEwhere in the world, for SOME periods of time, and knowledgeable guys in the U.S. (or anywhere else) will be able to find & download them. Easily done. And what may be "legal" to manufacture is irrelevant, since the bad guys we're worried about won't be doing what they're doing legally or for legal purposes in the first place. Lastly, metal detectors at airports, for example, pose no problem, since all you have to do is set up one of these 3D printing operations INSIDE the country; no need to transport the product through secured international checkpoints, just make it wherever you need it.

[beechguy]

It's a very sick society that can't even protect their little ones. I would have thought that Sandy Hook would have convinced them to tighten up their gun laws considerably. As long as the NRA can buy the politicians nothing will change.

And did the Sandy Hook shooter buy that weapon?

I don't know if he bought the weapon or if it was transmitted from another galaxy via a wormhole...and I don't care.

My point was, he broke several laws, but he didn't have to break one to make a purchase, he didn't bother. That seems to be a point that many seem to miss when saying there should be more restrictive laws on purchases. But, when you buy out of a crack house or the trunk of a car, you don't need to do background check.

[beechguy]

Chicago, New York all of the major cities in the US have extremely tight gun control laws. In NY the new mayor stopped the stop and frisk rules for the police and murders immediately went up. I am from the US and am very familiar with gun control, the criminal control is the problem. We let these gangs come in from different countries and they control the streets. If you look into the cause of street violence that is what the problem is. The problem with the mass shootings if looked closely enough is that most of the people do not take into consideration that all were on some type of drug prescribed by doctors. Also most used stolen or someone else's guns.

I cannot believe that people that do not know about the law's of the USA comment on our problems mainly caused by inept politicians, and there feel good attitude towards crime, immigration and drugs. I am in Thailand and I do not know the laws here about ownership of guns but is see gun violence daily in the news. are everywhere in the world and it will be always be so, guns are everywhere.

Almost all the gun violence in the OP was black-on-black. They were not from different countries...but you are most likely correct that most of the firearms were stolen. Maybe the thing to do is to make harsher sentences for gun owners who allow their firearms to be stolen.

Gun owners who allow their property to be stolen should be punished? That's rich. You must be in politics.

Germany: up to 10.000 Euro fine or up to 3 years imprisonment for failing to secure weapons against theft. If your gun is actually stolen, you are in deep trouble. We are rather happy with this regulation (but would preffer a no guns at all except for the police policy). I am surprised though that US laws alledgedly do not have such regulations. Are you certain?

I'm happy the Allies won WWII, although seems the UK and the USA has gone off course.

[ClutchClark]

I wonder if "3D Printing" technology will ever reach the point where guns can be "printed". Find the digital file online somewhere, obtain the raw materials somewhere, and...? Even if the materials were expensive and hard to find, or even if the product were useable for only a limited number of rounds, the essential fact is that such a "self-manufactured" firearm would have no serial number or other history and be untraceable.

This has already been done and a pistol was made and assembled with I think 13 parts but the files were removed from the web by the feds.

By law, (a little help here neversure) a firearm can not be made 100% of composite materials so one part was made with an alloy that will set off the metal detector at the airport or the Federal courthouse or anywhere else some nutjob want s to go kill people.

You're kind of missing the point. The "Feds" can only force removals from U.S. webservers: such files only have to find their way to servers SOMEwhere in the world, for SOME periods of time, and knowledgeable guys in the U.S. (or anywhere else) will be able to find & download them. Easily done. And what may be "legal" to manufacture is irrelevant, since the bad guys we're worried about won't be doing what they're doing legally or for legal purposes in the first place. Lastly, metal detectors at airports, for example, pose no problem, since all you have to do is set up one of these 3D printing operations INSIDE the country; no need to transport the product through secured international checkpoints, just make it wherever you need it.

Your first post pondered whether it was possible to "create" a firearm with a 3D printer and I responded it is possible and has been done. I didn't know you were trying to make a point.

BTW, the type of 3D printer necessary is an Industrial type printer that currently sells for $100,000 or more.

With advancements in the process of 3D printing, this might change but currently it remains cost prohibitive.

Cheers

Edited July 8, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ClutchClark]

It's a very sick society that can't even protect their little ones. I would have thought that Sandy Hook would have convinced them to tighten up their gun laws considerably. As long as the NRA can buy the politicians nothing will change.

And did the Sandy Hook shooter buy that weapon?

I don't know if he bought the weapon or if it was transmitted from another galaxy via a wormhole...and I don't care.

My point was, he broke several laws, but he didn't have to break one to make a purchase, he didn't bother. That seems to be a point that many seem to miss when saying there should be more restrictive laws on purchases. But, when you buy out of a crack house or the trunk of a car, you don't need to do background check.

Are you saying that because more restrictive gun laws would not have prevented the Sandy Hook massacre then we should remove all gun laws that restrict the ability to purchase firearms?

[landslide]

I am an American who has never owned a gun, and have no plans to ever own a gun. The problem in America is not permissive gun laws, but a lack of enforcement of those gun laws on the books. Until there are real consequences for the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, ie. a 10 year sentence enhancement for the non-fatal use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, mandatory life for use of a firearm in which a death occurs, 20 year enhancement for a felon in possesion of a firearm, there will be no reduction in weapons use by criminals. Stop and frisk dramatically lowered murders and assaults in New York, but the new mayor, de Blasio, catered to the minority complaints and suspended the law. Murders and assaults immediately increased. 91% of Chicago's firearms crimes are black on black, and the majority of those are gang related. If stop and frisk was implemented in Chicago, there would be a dramatic reduction in firearms crimes. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer, throwing the book at the use of a firearm in criminal activity is.

And you are willing to pay for those long-term incarceration costs in the form of higher taxes?

The reason I ask is that most Americans are upset their taxes are already too high and many teaparty members right here on TV think there should be no taxes.

Cheers

You bet. I and other taxpayers are already paying through the nose for Obamacare, welfare, food stamps, illegal immigration, increased police presence, military action to support countries who hate us, foriegn aid to China, for Christ's sake ($1.1 Billion annually). Time to solve our problems at home. Crime costs are expensive to the economy. Reduce crime, and redirect the money to incarceration and job training to rehabilitate as many offenders as possible. If criminals realize that there real, serious consequences to their criminal activities, crime will go down, and the costs associated with crime will go down.

[NeverSure]

I wonder if "3D Printing" technology will ever reach the point where guns can be "printed". Find the digital file online somewhere, obtain the raw materials somewhere, and...? Even if the materials were expensive and hard to find, or even if the product were useable for only a limited number of rounds, the essential fact is that such a "self-manufactured" firearm would have no serial number or other history and be untraceable.

This has already been done and a pistol was made and assembled with I think 13 parts but the files were removed from the web by the feds.

By law, (a little help here neversure) a firearm can not be made 100% of composite materials so one part was made with an alloy that will set off the metal detector at the airport or the Federal courthouse or anywhere else some nutjob want s to go kill people.

Present, LOL. It isn't illegal to make your own gun. It's only illegal to later sell unless you have a federal manufacturer's license and apply the necessary serial number and paperwork trail.

I haven't heard of a plastic that can withstand the shock and pressure of firing a bullet. Every barrel, firing chamber, firing pin and assorted springs I've ever known of were special steel. That is except for home made zip guns which fire .22 shorts and they break down pretty quickly from having something like a copper tubing barrel. Even they need steel springs, etc. They are sort of a one shot deal and even then they are dangerous to the shooter.

The most famous plastic gun might be the Glock. It has a lot of plastic in its frame to reduce weight. But still, all of the stress-taking components, must-not-fail components (trigger group) and other parts such as the barrel, springs, firing chamber, pin, magazine, loading ramp etc. are special steel.

[NeverSure]

Chicago, New York all of the major cities in the US have extremely tight gun control laws. In NY the new mayor stopped the stop and frisk rules for the police and murders immediately went up. I am from the US and am very familiar with gun control, the criminal control is the problem. We let these gangs come in from different countries and they control the streets. If you look into the cause of street violence that is what the problem is. The problem with the mass shootings if looked closely enough is that most of the people do not take into consideration that all were on some type of drug prescribed by doctors. Also most used stolen or someone else's guns.

I cannot believe that people that do not know about the law's of the USA comment on our problems mainly caused by inept politicians, and there feel good attitude towards crime, immigration and drugs. I am in Thailand and I do not know the laws here about ownership of guns but is see gun violence daily in the news. <deleted> are everywhere in the world and it will be always be so, guns are everywhere.

Almost all the gun violence in the OP was black-on-black. They were not from different countries...but you are most likely correct that most of the firearms were stolen. Maybe the thing to do is to make harsher sentences for gun owners who allow their firearms to be stolen.

Gun owners who allow their property to be stolen should be punished? That's rich. You must be in politics.

Any politician who stood on that platform would never make the primary ;-)

However, laws like this are being created at the local level in various US municipalities.

There is some question about the laws efficacy and the NRA is fighting like crazy to prevent anything similar at a state or federal level.

I'm not so sure. With freedom must come responsibility. I have no problem penalizing people who leave guns out to be stolen. I'm in favor of gun freedom, but responsible gun freedom.

We already have laws restricting many uses of guns. I think a major fine levied against someone who left guns out to be easily stolen would be a good idea. Mine are all locked in a safe and the safe is disguised. I have one or two out at a time, but they are with me.

I think that hammering people who let their kids get their guns or who fail to maintain control of them would help secure my gun rights, giving fewer arguments against those rights.

[NeverSure]

I wonder if "3D Printing" technology will ever reach the point where guns can be "printed". Find the digital file online somewhere, obtain the raw materials somewhere, and...? Even if the materials were expensive and hard to find, or even if the product were useable for only a limited number of rounds, the essential fact is that such a "self-manufactured" firearm would have no serial number or other history and be untraceable.

This has already been done and a pistol was made and assembled with I think 13 parts but the files were removed from the web by the feds.

By law, (a little help here neversure) a firearm can not be made 100% of composite materials so one part was made with an alloy that will set off the metal detector at the airport or the Federal courthouse or anywhere else some nutjob want s to go kill people.

You're kind of missing the point. The "Feds" can only force removals from U.S. webservers: such files only have to find their way to servers SOMEwhere in the world, for SOME periods of time, and knowledgeable guys in the U.S. (or anywhere else) will be able to find & download them. Easily done. And what may be "legal" to manufacture is irrelevant, since the bad guys we're worried about won't be doing what they're doing legally or for legal purposes in the first place. Lastly, metal detectors at airports, for example, pose no problem, since all you have to do is set up one of these 3D printing operations INSIDE the country; no need to transport the product through secured international checkpoints, just make it wherever you need it.

So now we know how the terrorists are going to flood the UK with illegal guns. Of course the honest citizens will have no way to defend their families against it.

Get real. A plastic gun is a toy. Now, someone with a CRC machine can build a real gun and do some real damage.

But then, there a laws against doing that, so it couldn't possibly happen, right?

[ClutchClark]

I am an American who has never owned a gun, and have no plans to ever own a gun. The problem in America is not permissive gun laws, but a lack of enforcement of those gun laws on the books. Until there are real consequences for the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, ie. a 10 year sentence enhancement for the non-fatal use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, mandatory life for use of a firearm in which a death occurs, 20 year enhancement for a felon in possesion of a firearm, there will be no reduction in weapons use by criminals. Stop and frisk dramatically lowered murders and assaults in New York, but the new mayor, de Blasio, catered to the minority complaints and suspended the law. Murders and assaults immediately increased. 91% of Chicago's firearms crimes are black on black, and the majority of those are gang related. If stop and frisk was implemented in Chicago, there would be a dramatic reduction in firearms crimes. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer, throwing the book at the use of a firearm in criminal activity is.

And you are willing to pay for those long-term incarceration costs in the form of higher taxes?

The reason I ask is that most Americans are upset their taxes are already too high and many teaparty members right here on TV think there should be no taxes.

Cheers

You bet. I and other taxpayers are already paying through the nose for Obamacare, welfare, food stamps, illegal immigration, increased police presence, military action to support countries who hate us, foriegn aid to China, for Christ's sake ($1.1 Billion annually). Time to solve our problems at home. Crime costs are expensive to the economy. Reduce crime, and redirect the money to incarceration and job training to rehabilitate as many offenders as possible. If criminals realize that there real, serious consequences to their criminal activities, crime will go down, and the costs associated with crime will go down.

Thats refreshing but do criminals really think about the penalties prior to committing a crime?

After all, murder has rather stiff penalties but criminals continue to carry and use guns in the commission of crimes.

Some people might suggest criminals commit crimes thinking they won't get caught so they seldom factor in the risk. When crack cocaine penalties were much harsher than for other drugs did criminals switch to the drugs with lesser penalties?

I don't know...I am asking.