Immigration clarifies and confirms overstay crackdown

[kingstonkid]

THE POINT IS THIS; MOST OF US HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE IN THAILAND BECAUSE WE HAVE WORKED SOME 50 YEARS AND HAVE A PENSION AND SAVINGS!

For the most part, those individuals that are illegally staying here are not man enough to get a job or 2 jobs if necessary, live frugally, stay out of the bars, advance their education, save their money and finally come to Thailand with a pension and savings - as we have done ourselves.

THE BEST THING FOR THEM IS TO GET BOOTED OUT OF THAILAND AND GO HOME AND START ACTING LIKE A RESPONSIBLE HUMAN BEING!!

This is representative of a certain type of entitled, sanctimonious, resentful retiree on thai visa.

'I did my 50 years, you go and do yours.'

But he hasn't earned any right to be in Thailand, he's a guest like any foreigner on a 1 year leash.

Yes most foreigners may be on visas, or extensions, some have PR and some have citizenship. But they follow the rules and comply with the requirements. Nothing to do with how long they've been here.

Those that chose not to follow the rules perhaps can't meet the requirements or don't want to come into contact with the authorities for some reason. Whatever - it is not a justifiable reason. They cannot break the rules just because it suits them. 20k ThB isn't really that big a punishment and is much less severe than many countries including US and EU members.

before you writing any bullshit, you should inform yourself, there is not financial fine in the EU for overstay

No they just deport you.

If you have no funds and aren't able to get them then they have the right to detain you they sure as hell are not gong to let you walk around free.

They can also put you on a plane of their choice at your countries desecration and let your country handle it.

[SiggiCM]

Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year

will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years,

please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days

I think this 90-days period is a mistake. We will continue to see many posts of people recommending to others to not bother with a extension or a visarun for just a few weeks because "there is no risk doing an overstay".

In many countries the Immigration Officer has a large liberty of decision (from nothing, a small warning,... to a strong ban sentence) depending of each special case. If a Thai officer get to control someone in a 30-days overstay who clearly choose the overstay option rather than a visa, it should have the possibility to ban him... IMHO.

may be they put them at a wall and shoot them to death, Problem solve or?

it makes me sick how many perfect people here in thailand, who never broke any law here

[Baerboxer]

The thing is, one can whine about this as long as he wants, but at the end of the day, we are all just guests and have to live with and respect whatever the Thai government throws at us. I am here now legally for 23 years with proper visas and work permit, etc. and managed to not have one single day of overstay, never a problem with immigration, police or labour department. It is doable folks! Thus stop complaining about the illegal doors being shut and locked now!

I pay a lot of money in taxes, social security, insurance, employees and all, and I always despised the freeloaders and illegal dive and tour guides for having it their cheap and illegal ways with monthly border runs, etc. not paying any tax, not having to apply for and renew work permits, etc... So now the good times for Cheap Charlies seem to finally be over. What money is lost? The few hundred Baht they spent at night in their bars or the few hundred Baht they hand over to the Rasta beach bums for a pack of weed? Come on, get real!!!

Only thing the Thai government should do in addition is to come up with rules and regulations that allow business owners, language schools, etc. to legally employ more foreign staff without having to employ hundreds of (non willing to work) Thai employees, ease the process of applying for and renewing work permits, etc. to keep it all in balance. It's a long way to go and unfortunately with Thai people, there always is the self-centered nationalistic attitude that hinders progress...

yes and what happend it your employer cancel the work permit? you leave next day, you leave your house, stuff, friends, family back in Thailand and you say Sorry I have to leave because I not break the law?

So many perfect people here, all with perfect Visas, nobody took money from friends to get the 800000 Baht together for the retirement Visa, nobody made a false sworn statement at land office that his wife own all the money for the house, nobody built a company only to buy land and house, 90 % of the people with work permit brake the law because doing other work than described or at anther place than described,

Instead of hold together and fight on better rights for the foreigners in Thailand, fight against these incredible unjust laws in Thailand, against the daily discrimination here, you are happy if other people get problems, will may be deported, but when you look in history this will never end, one day they are in front of your house and you will be the next to leave!

Sounds like you are worrying about this for some reason? Good luck.

[SiggiCM]

I got a new extension at CW yesterday and wasn't asked to sign a form acknowledging the new rules on overstaying.

Sent from my K012 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you can not sign anything hat not exist yet

[Baerboxer]

Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year

will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years,

please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days

I think this 90-days period is a mistake. We will continue to see many posts of people recommending to others to not bother with a extension or a visarun for just a few weeks because "there is no risk doing an overstay".

In many countries the Immigration Officer has a large liberty of decision (from nothing, a small warning,... to a strong ban sentence) depending of each special case. If a Thai officer get to control someone in a 30-days overstay who clearly choose the overstay option rather than a visa, it should have the possibility to ban him... IMHO.

may be they put them at a wall and shoot them to death, Problem solve or?

it makes me sick how many perfect people here in thailand, who never broke any law here

Read your post and see how ridiculous it makes you appear. Shoot them for overstay -

What do you suggest - tell them they're naughty and ask them to be good in future?

All Thailand is doing is bringing its rules on overstaying more in line with other countries.

Would it be nice if other aspects of the current visa and extension of stay process was overhauled - yes it would. But, that might or might not happen. In the meantime you have to abide by the rules or the consequences of breaking them,

It makes me sick when foreigners want to live here but feel they have the right to break any law they fancy and complain bitterly when anyone says otherwise.

[Baerboxer]

Yes most foreigners may be on visas, or extensions, some have PR and some have citizenship. But they follow the rules and comply with the requirements. Nothing to do with how long they've been here.

Those that chose not to follow the rules perhaps can't meet the requirements or don't want to come into contact with the authorities for some reason. Whatever - it is not a justifiable reason. They cannot break the rules just because it suits them. 20k ThB isn't really that big a punishment and is much less severe than many countries including US and EU members.

before you writing any bullshit, you should inform yourself, there is not financial fine in the EU for overstay

No they just deport you.

If you have no funds and aren't able to get them then they have the right to detain you they sure as hell are not gong to let you walk around free.

They can also put you on a plane of their choice at your countries desecration and let your country handle it.

Imposing fines is an option too for those issuing Schengen visas, as well as all you say.

[bkkdawg]

Confirmed but not in effect yet. So when can we expect the new laws to be introduced?

Personally, I've been here on various visas for the past 10 years and only ever had the odd day or 2 overstay. Having had my work permit cancelled 3 months ago by an unscrupulous employer and just had a baby with my Thai girlfriend followed by a whopping hospital bill I've found myself in the sh*t! 3 months over and I'm just about on top of my finances again and ready to do the Non B again up in Laos and pay the 20,000.

I think a lot of people on here who are talking about "kicking the trash out" have never worked here and don't understand how easy it can be to be back on your arse and having to do expensive visa trips because circumstances like changing jobs etc.

I don't want to hear from these bitter old gerry hatricks who think they've "earned" their right to be in Thailand (what a joke)

My question is: Am I safe going to the Laos border at the end of July?

[paz]

My question is: Am I safe going to the Laos border at the end of July?

Nobody can answer this with any authority. You should go ASAP. And better to go prepared for a visa not visa exempt entry.

Edited July 9, 2014 by paz

[thailiketoo]

My question is: Am I safe going to the Laos border at the end of July?

Nobody can answer this with any authority. You should go ASAP. And better to go prepared for a visa not visa exempt entry.

Why not ask them on their facebook page? https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008198101012

Surely they would be the overstay experts in the area.

[FritsSikkink]

The link in the OP appears to answer the question I have been asking about the detail of people APPREHENDED on overstay under one year getting a 5 year ban, even if the overstay is under 90 days.

It's odd though that the text people are now being asked to sign includes the text giving the apparently WRONG impression that an overstay of even one day would result in a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

I am reading "caught" and "apprehended" (the word on the form) as being the same thing.

Hopefully, assuming this "crackdown" actually goes through, this correction can also be made on the form and well communicated to immigration enforcement and the foreigners potentially impacted.

Lt Col Banphot Kittivira, Deputy Superintendent of the Immigration checkpoint at Sadao, on the Malaysian border, confirmed that his office received a copy of the new form.

“Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years, please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days,” he said.

“Any foreigners who overstay less than 90 days will be subjected to the normal 500-baht a day fine.”

- See more at: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Immigration-looks-enforce-life-ban-overstays-within/31105#ad-image-1

how it is possible that people had to sign something what isnt valied ?

so what thailand will do if somebody has no money to return?

they have to pay the ticket, because they can not arrest this person for the rest of his life

You stay in jail until you have money for your ticket.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[paz]

You stay in jail until you have money for your ticket.

Not in jail, in IDC. It is not the same thing.

After a long time, your embassy or ONG may loan the money for the ticket.

[samran]

Think of all the money that will be lost. This doesn't seem like a good idea. Taking money out of an economy rarely makes it grow. Strange.

The reason they are overstaying in the first place is that they don't have too much money.

[FritsSikkink]

You stay in jail until you have money for your ticket.

Not in jail, in IDC. It is not the same thing.

After a long time, your embassy or ONG may loan the money for the ticket.

Detention center = almost same as jail.

[sometimewoodworker]

My question is: Am I safe going to the Laos border at the end of July?

As Paz said nobody can give an accurate answer, but if you read the first post you could easly get caught by the change.

The only answer is that if you go now you will probably be OK and if you wait too long you will be banned.

In your place I wouldn't want to take the chance.

[Tomtomtom69]

Can only see gloom and doom for the economy I would think that overstays. Must be in the 1,000s if not millions and who will foot the bill to deport all these people I would assume that if they cannot afford a visa then they would not have the money to leave the kingdom I would assume the biggest offenders would be those from neighbouring countries Burma,Cambodia,Malaysia all these people would be doing the jobs Thais won't touch

I doubt that these overstay rules have anything to do with the nations you mention, as they are more a burden when caught (read no overstay fine to be had (500 thb a day HAHA forgot it, as they only get free Transportation back home) to the Thai government.

My guess is that these rules are brought into affect for us Westerners.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

You do sound a bit cynical.

I have personally seen vans packed with illegals heading towards Cambodia (so they must have been Cambodians then) and they were crammed in the back in horrible conditions, some of them looked like they could be close to suffocating. I am quite sure that they are also subject to the overstay penalties but if they don't have the money either someone else has to bail them out or their possessions are taken from them.

[Tomtomtom69]

This proposal to blacklist is as stupid as the people on this forum cheering for it. A 90 day overstay can happen to people without their knowledge. I know of one person who had worked here many years on 12 month extensions. Then resigned his job. The company told him he was allowed to stay until the date of the stamp in his passport and had no knowledge of any law saying that is not allowed. During the 4 months between resigning and the end of the extension of stay he even did the 90 day reporting, upon the completion of the extension of stay immigration fined him for 120 days overstay for not leaving the country on day of resignation. In this case there was no intent to break any law and did everything that he was told by the Thais.

How is everyone expected to be an expert in immigration law?

Old and boring Dictum I know - BUT :

"Ignorance of the Law is no excuse"

We are all responsible for our own compliance with regulations.

Simple really.

Patrick

90 days is actually a very long time to be overstaying. I agree that ignorance of the law is no excuse - the above example however is of someone who didn't know what they were doing was wrong, but many more intentionally overstay. But in these new regulations immigration is actually still being rather generous, because it may still be possible to get away with a couple of days overstay here or there without much hassle. It's long term overstayers that are the problem. Unless you nearly died in a car accident and are in hospital for months on end to recover from it, alone and with no one to apply for an extension on medical grounds for you, there is almost no other reason I can think of to overstay such a long time. A day or two might happen if you are forgetful or get into an accident close to the expiry of your visa pushing you over the limit but otherwise there's little excuse for anything else.

[WhamBam]

Being one who has always had a visa and only ever overstayed by one day (several years ago after getting my return flight date wrong), I do not see a problem with tightening the rules.

and what if that happened again to somebody else like yourself but got stopped on the way to the airport, goodbye girlfriend or wife for 5 years, it can happen, it happened to you, and it possibly will happen again

As others have said, up to 90 days is not a problem under the proposed rules.

If I had a Thai wife I'd have a marriage visa. Thankfully I am free, single and relatively happy

[German Viking]

Being one who has always had a visa and only ever overstayed by one day (several years ago after getting my return flight date wrong), I do not see a problem with tightening the rules.

and what if that happened again to somebody else like yourself but got stopped on the way to the airport, goodbye girlfriend or wife for 5 years, it can happen, it happened to you, and it possibly will happen again

I only about 2 weeks in Thai Visa and has posted in several of the forums, but it looks a lot of ppl are not able or to lazy to read the articles or the former posts.

Instead some open also new topics for for the same old cases.

If this will continues, then Thai Visa will be soon messed up and not usable anymore.

Overstay more than 90 days > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 1 year.

Overstay more than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 3 years.

Overstay more than 3 years > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

Overstay more than 5 years > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years.

Overstay more than 10 years > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for life.

[thailiketoo]

My question is: Am I safe going to the Laos border at the end of July?

As Paz said nobody can give an accurate answer, but if you read the first post you could easly get caught by the change.

The only answer is that if you go now you will probably be OK and if you wait too long you will be banned.

In your place I wouldn't want to take the chance.

You said no one can give you an accurate answer. Not true.

Why not ask Mukdahan immigration on their facebook page? https://www.facebook...100008198101012

Edited July 9, 2014 by thailiketoo

[German Viking]

Right on. The long overstayers are many times marginal persons. Rather spending money on drinking or whatever instead of doing proper visa applications. Or indeed criminal figures who are wanted in another country and affraid of crossing borders. If you want to live in Thailand, respect the rules and regulations.

Seems like I'm a multi-tasker, having been previously accused of being a barfly whoremonger yet somehow I found the time to get permission to remain in the Kingdom until the end of September 2015, subject to the usual 90-day reporting. If the overstayers had really wanted to sort things out with Immigration they could have - my guess is that many of them arent keen to go anywhere near Immigration because they are working or entered Thailand with some sort of problem hanging over their heads elsewhere.

What kind of visa/ extension of stay do you have? That let you stay 15-16 months with 90 day reporting.

Didn't you write before that you got a non-O ?

Maybe he/she have Thai Elite, but don't be jealous

[NanLaew]

Confirmed but not in effect yet. So when can we expect the new laws to be introduced?

Personally, I've been here on various visas for the past 10 years and only ever had the odd day or 2 overstay. Having had my work permit cancelled 3 months ago by an unscrupulous employer and just had a baby with my Thai girlfriend followed by a whopping hospital bill I've found myself in the sh*t! 3 months over and I'm just about on top of my finances again and ready to do the Non B again up in Laos and pay the 20,000.

I think a lot of people on here who are talking about "kicking the trash out" have never worked here and don't understand how easy it can be to be back on your arse and having to do expensive visa trips because circumstances like changing jobs etc.

I don't want to hear from these bitter old gerry hatricks who think they've "earned" their right to be in Thailand (what a joke)

My question is: Am I safe going to the Laos border at the end of July?

"So When can we expect the new laws to be introduced?"

Well 'dawg, it's those 'bitter old gerry hatricks' that may have half a valid opinion on what you seek. But you just go on ahead and elicit the deep and profound knowledge of the younger, less experienced, possibly overstaying, resident 'tourist' with the same devil-may-care attitude that prevails amongst you lot.

What you want to hear is, "Wow! You have been here for 10 years and missed the departure date before and they didn't bat eyelid. So have I. No hassles. That's cool." or maybe, "Oh my! You are 3 months over and have a kid with a Thai chick too? Righteous! Screw their silly laws. I have done this so many times already. Nobody gives a sh!t."

Here is the truth in as much as anyone right now knows it. You can go tomorrow with your 20k and get happily stamped out - or they may have you sign a piece of paper acknowledging the new rules with whatever consequence ensues. Then you may have no problems and get your Non-O visa - or they may have you sign a piece of paper acknowledging the new rules with whatever consequence ensues. You may come back and get your 90-day stamp on arrival - or they could make you sign a piece of paper acknowledging the new rules with whatever consequence ensues. Once you are back, you may even get as far as filing an extension or do a 'border bounce' or whatever perfectly legal mechanism you chose to extend your stay - or they could make you sign a piece of paper acknowledging the new rules with whatever consequence ensues.

I think that's pretty succinct, no? From someone who has worked here, no? Someone who's been here long enough to understand that regardless of age, skills, beauty, money, visa, work permit or anything, he really has no inalienable right to be here at all. No?

By the way, sorry to hear about your 'unscrupulous employer' and congratulations on the new arrival and really sorry for the worry about the hospital stay and that your girlfriend is alright and all. Good to see you are getting back on track with the finances too.... said no Consular or Immigration official. Ever.

[larsjohnsson]

Right on. The long overstayers are many times marginal persons. Rather spending money on drinking or whatever instead of doing proper visa applications. Or indeed criminal figures who are wanted in another country and affraid of crossing borders. If you want to live in Thailand, respect the rules and regulations.

Seems like I'm a multi-tasker, having been previously accused of being a barfly whoremonger yet somehow I found the time to get permission to remain in the Kingdom until the end of September 2015, subject to the usual 90-day reporting. If the overstayers had really wanted to sort things out with Immigration they could have - my guess is that many of them arent keen to go anywhere near Immigration because they are working or entered Thailand with some sort of problem hanging over their heads elsewhere.

What kind of visa/ extension of stay do you have? That let you stay 15-16 months with 90 day reporting.

Didn't you write before that you got a non-O ?

Maybe he/she have Thai Elite, but don't be jealous

Why would I be jealous? I can stay here legally as long as I like.

I asked because he posted recently that he got a non-O visa.

[shocky2004]

So what happen right now if, let's say, someone under a year overstay surrender himself at the airport with a plane ticket and his fine. Is he getting blacklisted for a year?

I'm confused cause some people say it's already in the papers at some immigration places while others (like the yesterday post from a thai lieutenant) tend to say that it's not yet being applied and it will be in effect most likely at the end of this month.

i'm confused

[p_brownstone]

Personally, I've been here on various visas for the past 10 years and only ever had the odd day or 2 overstay. Having had my work permit cancelled 3 months ago by an unscrupulous employer and just had a baby with my Thai girlfriend followed by a whopping hospital bill I've found myself in the sh*t! 3 months over and I'm just about on top of my finances again and ready to do the Non B again up in Laos and pay the 20,000.

Damn - those 9 month pregnancies really sneak up on you don't they.

Patrick

[Namplik]

do the 'overstayed' accumulate over a period of time ? or is it 90 days overstay per visit ?

the people I have known that have been on long term overstay here (+1 years) generally conform to these categories

- teaching English

- caught out doing something illegal and got arrested (4 of them were selling drugs)

- working in nightclubs/gogo bars

- under 50 and all of the above

- criminals on the run from home country and all of the above

I have not met any that didn't fit the above profile in 10 years living here

I come in 3-4 times a year on a work-rotation and get a normal tourist visa. I usually overstay 2-3 weeks and merely pay the fine on departure. I can't imagine going 90 days over at one time. However, over a couple of years I'll hit 90 days if they accumulate over separate trips.

Can I assume I'm not what they are targeting ?

You deliberately overstays everytime you come here? Off course you will be targeted!

[harrry]

It is unreasonable that in the case of for example losing a job you have to go the same day to immigration and get a week to leave the country or be on overstay. In cases like this it is not unreasonable to expect that the person be given say a month to leave the country (automatically no trip to immigration required) to either change his job and become legal with that or make real arangements to clear up leases etc.

Few countries if any apply the rule that Thailand does.

[SiggiCM]

Being one who has always had a visa and only ever overstayed by one day (several years ago after getting my return flight date wrong), I do not see a problem with tightening the rules.

and what if that happened again to somebody else like yourself but got stopped on the way to the airport, goodbye girlfriend or wife for 5 years, it can happen, it happened to you, and it possibly will happen again

As others have said, up to 90 days is not a problem under the proposed rules.

If I had a Thai wife I'd have a marriage visa. Thankfully I am free, single and relatively happy

international law about human rights, Thailand signed also, you can not black list people how have kids or wife in the country,

even Thai Immigration can not do this

[SiggiCM]

The link in the OP appears to answer the question I have been asking about the detail of people APPREHENDED on overstay under one year getting a 5 year ban, even if the overstay is under 90 days.

It's odd though that the text people are now being asked to sign includes the text giving the apparently WRONG impression that an overstay of even one day would result in a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

I am reading "caught" and "apprehended" (the word on the form) as being the same thing.

Hopefully, assuming this "crackdown" actually goes through, this correction can also be made on the form and well communicated to immigration enforcement and the foreigners potentially impacted.

Lt Col Banphot Kittivira, Deputy Superintendent of the Immigration checkpoint at Sadao, on the Malaysian border, confirmed that his office received a copy of the new form.

“Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years, please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days,” he said.

“Any foreigners who overstay less than 90 days will be subjected to the normal 500-baht a day fine.”

- See more at: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Immigration-looks-enforce-life-ban-overstays-within/31105#ad-image-1

how it is possible that people had to sign something what isnt valied ?

so what thailand will do if somebody has no money to return?

they have to pay the ticket, because they can not arrest this person for the rest of his life

You stay in jail until you have money for your ticket.

oh realy?

no for sure not, you can put somebody to jail only if it is ordered by court, so people without money get life time jail?

before writing you should use your brain, if exist

[NanLaew]

It is unreasonable that in the case of for example losing a job you have to go the same day to immigration and get a week to leave the country or be on overstay. In cases like this it is not unreasonable to expect that the person be given say a month to leave the country (automatically no trip to immigration required) to either change his job and become legal with that or make real arangements to clear up leases etc.

Few countries if any apply the rule that Thailand does.

If you get canned at home, do you hang around for a month 'sorting things out' or do you get on with it?

If one can't get their head around the fact that working in a country that isn't yours by birthright is the same as a job back home, wise up.

The existing procedure gives you 7-days to leave. So you do as much as you can within that time but the FIRST thing you do is make the travel plan to comply with the ruling. Then you can't vacillate with excuses that it 'crept up on me' or 'I didn't get enough time' because THOUSANDS of others have managed to handle their business within the stipulated time and there's no reason for you to be any different. Doesn't ANYONE have a viable Plan B?

If your finances are so perilous that you either can't afford a trip out of the country, or can't afford a visa, then how are you surviving day-by-day in LOS? Where on earth is your Plan B?

Most old farts, even the cynical been-there, done-that kind like myself always, ALWAYS had a backup plan, the Plan B. For a long time and for a lot of guys it was (and maybe still is) the 5 baht gold chain. That way, when the excretia hit the diffuser, one went to the gold shop, got cash, bought a ticket, took care of bills or paid things in advance and then went home. That's about 3 grand or 1800 quid. It's enough. Nobody cashed it in for another few months of beer and skittles either as it was the big reality check. Get you sh!t together and do it elsewhere. What does the average less-than-10 years in LOS and newly spawned TEFL'er have? A maxed out credit card and a wallet full of I.O.U's by the sounds of things.

Where's YOUR Plan B?

Edited July 9, 2014 by NanLaew