Pool disaster in Khon Kaen

[Enid]

Firstly as per forum rules I will not mention or hint as to what the company that my son used in the following nine month disaster. So please don't ask. I am only writing this to share my sons’ pool building story and to add valuable information to this wonderful and informative forum so you may use it if or when you have a pool built. He has suffered financially, stressfully and time consumingly and I would hate to see anyone else go through what he have been through.

This is his story.

I had a 6 x 3 salt water chlorinated pool built 2 years ago by a company whose expat consultant assured me he had vast experience in building swimming pools and also consulted and repaired other disgruntled swimming pool owners pools after leaks etc were discovered.

Why did I entrust this company in building the pool? Because the expat told me it came with a warranty and I would save considerable money in the future if there was any problems. The expat also lived in my house ( we just bought it and we lived in the rented house next door) and oversaw the pool construction on a daily basis. Great news for me as this would ensure no problems what so ever in the build.

I believe the problems began on the day it was handed over to us, but previously knowing nothing about pools I had no idea how much the water bill should be, how much water it should use. No idea about salt PPM, chlorine levels, PH. Nothing. I had a pool guy come in and do everything. I was naive when it came to pools.

After moving the family to Laos for work we rented the house out and that is when the tenants started complaining about water bills. It was consistently around 5000 baht a month for a small 3 bedroom house with 2 people living in it. On the 4th of October, 2013 I sent an email to the consulting company telling them the issues my tenants had. There was this water bill situation as well as dirt entering the pool and settling on the floor one hour after the filter was turned on (yes, we backwashed etc). Suffice to say it took them over 6 weeks to make there first visit all the while the water bill was being paid at about 5000 baht a month.

I will fast forward to a week ago, the pool re grouted (by me), 300 emails later, on average 6000 baht a month in water bills and chemicals (salt, PH minus) and about 10 visits by this company. The only positive about this time period is I became an expert in pool maintenance as well as gaining an intimate knowledge on my pool. The downside is the more I knew about my pool the more I found wrong with it.

In this time the company repaired one leak at the end of the pool after all the visits. It leaked again. They came again and dug up the same area of the pool and found the same leak again. The repaired it and refilled the pool. It leaked again. It was coming in through the LED light and I personally drained the pool siliconed the leak and refilled it. That leak stopped. I thought that would be it. Job finished. Nope. The pool kept leaking albeit at a slower rate.

I checked it myself and found the below problem with the balance tank float valve position. It was at the top and constantly overflowing into the overflow! As soon as someone entered the pool it overflowed to the street as well as there was no room for water displacement. They could not find this basic simple issue after 10 visits. This leak had been there from day 1. The expats response when I sent him the below pics. I quote him here. "I have nothing to say about this" He washed his hands of it.

It doesn't stop there. Even with the valve which we had another pool company move to the bottom of the balance tank completed the balance tank still overflowed when only 2 children swam in it for an hour. The balance tank was simply too small and not capable of holding the displaced water from splashing, jumping kids in the pool. The expat said it is correct and designed to hold 2 children! In other words we cannot swim in the pool as a family due to significant water loss. Never mind that I have to stand at the pump house and manually shut the pump off so it does not suck air when the balance tank empties. Then wait for the water to fill up the tank again and turn the pump back on to fill the pool to the brim. The expat said the balance tank is perfectly fitted to the pool. I asked him to get in the pool with me for 10 minutes and swim around a bit. He refused and steadfastly, arrogantly and stubbornly stated the tank is the right size.

It doesn't stop there. There was another leak. I found we lost 180 liters a day when the pump was not on and 460 liters a day with the pump on. The expats response. Evaporation. Never mind the salt disappearing as well. I am now going through 20 kg of salt a week to keep concentration at 4000ppm.

It doesn't stop there. The dirt going in the pool after each filtration cycle. I vacuumed the pool one day, backwashed it and filtered it 5 times to test this issue. Every time within an hour the pool floor was layered with a thin film of dirt that built up were the grout is. The expats response. He said it was the dirty environment we lived in. Never mind that the pools within a 50 meter radius don't get this layer of dirt. Anyway he said we needed a bigger filter and pump set up. I humored him and paid 15 000 baht for a bigger filter and pump. Yep, the same issue was happening. I wasted 15 000 baht for nothing. The expats response to this. He stated and I quote "I have seen this problem once before and cannot tell where the dirt is coming from" We will never know he said.

It doesn't stop there. The filter needs bleeding every time we turn it on so we cannot run it in auto mode. I have to go out, open the pump, add water to bleed it. I have to do this twice a day. He won't address this issue either after being informed.

It doesn't stop there. A few days ago I got another pool contractor in and they showed me the rebar that is pocking out and rusting through the perimeter overflow channel. They isolated the perimeter overflow and within one hour of arriving found 7 holes in the perimeter overflow that is leaking water out into the surrounding area. This is where I decided to cease using the old company (yes, after 9 months I was very very patient and gave then ample time to prove themselves) and have now engaged the new company who have shown nothing but professionalism and most importantly have shown me results.

The new pool guys that came have not only found the new leaks within the hour, but confirmed that the balance tank is too small and needs to be replaced or engineered to accommodate more water. How did they test this? Him and I got in the pool and did 2 laps. The balance tank was full and overflowing 3 minutes later.

Like I said I will not name names or company’s, but I just want to tell you my nightmare story so you good people can be very wary of some expats that state they are professional pool builders, but are simply unable to build pools. I can understand one problem. Two at a stretch, but when you have;

1. Balance tank too small

2. Balance tank valve incorrectly located

3. Grout needed replacing 18 months

4. One water leak at jet into pool

5. Seven water leaks around perimeter overflow

6. Rebar pocking through the concrete and rusting

7. Pump that needs bleeding before I can turn it on

What does that tell you. BTW, It is a rhetorical question.

Good luck everyone in your endeavors. I sincerely hope you have better success than me.

Thanks Mum for allowing me to post!!!

[Enid]

Mum let me reply.

After telling the new pool company that there is a leak and that it is losing 19 litres an hour they believed me! They actually respected my comments and with no agenda they tested the pool. They didn't say it was evaporation. They believed me. The understood it was costing me 5000 a month and told me that they would get right onto it.

The new pool company used play doh to isolate the perimeter overflow tank and within 1 hour they found 7 leaks. That is 7 more than the last company found in 9 months. It allowed me to rest easily because that 7 leaks was a 19 litre a hour leak that cost me salt and chemicals every week.

It was not evaporation which was disappointing to say the least as I will have to pay money to have it repaired now as well as paying for the balance tank to compensate for more than 2 children.

They will be giving me a quote in 5 days so I will post the cost and all updates of repairs.

I will include photos as well. I pray they can fix it so this nightmare can be over.

[sometime]

The situation you describe made the little faults with my pool seem tiny.

Good luck with the repairs.

[Enid]

While they prepare the quote they have plugged the holes with play doh to ensure there are no more unnecessary expenditures. The last water bill came in and it came to 853 baht. After 2 years of an average bill being 5000 baht with the chemicals this is a welcome site.

The salt has been checked daily and dilution has not dropped below 4000PPM.

The play doh cost 120 baht.

[Naam]

i would like to add something concerning "dirt after backwash". are you running the pump for several minutes on "rinse" cycle after backwashing with the waste valve open? if not this could be the reason for the remaining dirt.

[Enid]

i would like to add something concerning "dirt after backwash". are you running the pump for several minutes on "rinse" cycle after backwashing with the waste valve open? if not this could be the reason for the remaining dirt.

Hi...Yes. We did this backwashing 5 times in one day as an experiment. I fed 1000 litres of clean water through it on backwash with waste gate open. Then rinsed it for 5 minutes with waste gate open. Then filtered the pool as per normal. Dirt returned. Backwashed again and so on 5 times. Each time after 45 minutes the pool floor was starting to build up with dirt again.

Thanks for the feedback and ideas though.

[Enid]

We got the quote. The guttering repairs as well as replacing the rocks with a flush grating came to 41 000 baht. To double the balance tank capacity came to 120 000 baht.

I have decided to go ahead with the guttering. The new contractor simply could not believe an expat oversaw this job when he saw the below. One photo is the concrete that has fallen off the side walls of the gutter exposing the bare bricks. This is all around the pool as well. The other photo is concrete that went down the gutter return line and set in the piping which blocked 50% of the return water going back to the balance tank. The new contractor showed me this with a mirror and a torch 30 cm down the pipe. I cannot do this repair either due to financial constraints.

I have decided not to go ahead with the balance tank due to financial constraints as well. The pool has been a hole in the ground for the last 9 months that I have simply thrown money into when it was promised to be under warranty so my money situation is not what it used to be. The contractor has stated if we leave the filter on when we go swimming the water will not overflow out of the balance tank. He is right. As the water goes into the balance tank it pumps back into the pool. Downside is my kids cannot swim without telling us as we have to manually turn the pump on and then back to auto again when they have finished. Upside is we save 600 litres of water each time we go for a swim. Per week that was 4200 litres or 22% of our overall pool capacity. (The kids love swimming everyday).

I cannot reinforce enough, be very very very wary of anyone including expats that offer a warranty on any work. It seems the more they talk about pools the less they know about pools. I trusted this guy and he made up excuses not to do repairs, dragged the job out over 9 months and was simply out of his depth when it came to fault finding as was proven in the last month with the faults that have been discovered by the new contractor as well as the faults I found myself that the expat and his team could not.

It beggars belief that the faults just keep mounting up;

1. Balance tank too small

2. Balance tank valve incorrectly located

3. Grout needed replacing 18 months

4. One water leak at jet into pool

5. Seven water leaks around perimeter overflow

6. Rebar pocking through the concrete and rusting

7. Pump that needs bleeding before I can turn it on

8. Concrete set in overflow return lines blocking 50% of the piping.

9. Concrete coming away from guttering walls exposing bare bricks

The new contractor starts work today and I will send more photos when the repairs are completed.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Enid

[Enid]

i would like to add something concerning "dirt after backwash". are you running the pump for several minutes on "rinse" cycle after backwashing with the waste valve open? if not this could be the reason for the remaining dirt.

Hi...Yes. We did this backwashing 5 times in one day as an experiment. I fed 1000 litres of clean water through it on backwash with waste gate open. Then rinsed it for 5 minutes with waste gate open. Then filtered the pool as per normal. Dirt returned. Backwashed again and so on 5 times. Each time after 45 minutes the pool floor was starting to build up with dirt again.

Thanks for the feedback and ideas though.

BTW - With waste gate open an observation was made through the site glass and every time the water was running clear. After backwash and after rinsing.

Thanks again for the feedback. If you can think of any other reason for the dirt entering I would love to hear it.

I can only assume it is a hole between the pump and the pool and though pressure of the water feed to the pool would exclude dirt entry due to water pressure one could assume that if the hole was on the right angle (in line with the water flow) the water would be sucked in.

I may be wrong, but with due respect I was right every other time when discussing problems with the expat builder.

[JesseFrank]

The "dirt"may be filter media which is for some reason pressed into the return channel. This is possible if the flowrate of your pump is too high for the filter.

[Enid]

The "dirt"may be filter media which is for some reason pressed into the return channel. This is possible if the flowrate of your pump is too high for the filter.

Thanks. The pool company fitted a matching pump and filter assembly. It is too big for the pool as explained above as the expat had this bright idea that if we fitted a bigger filter and pump set it will alleviate the issue. All it did was alleviate 15 000 baht from my bank account into his company who supplied the pump and filter.

Anyway the pool company have finished the overflow gutter as per attached photo.

They cut the rust "cancer" out, widened the guttering as excess water escaped over the previously narrow gutter when the kids jumped in the pool. The new guttering does not allow leaves to get stuck in it now either that previously blocked the return pipes.

Water bill is now stabilized at 700 baht a month. A refreshing change from 5000 odd baht a month.

[yougivemebaby]

How much did you initially pay for the pool. ?

[Enid]

Well, it is update time for the never ending pool disaster.

We went from 5000 baht water bills to 700 water bills after the new contractor fixed the leaks. The kids have learnt to warn us when they want to swim so we can turn the pump on so the balance tank does not overflow.

As of last month however our balance tank which was built by the original contractor developed a crack which started leaking water. The water bill this month is over 16 000 baht ( I can take a photo of the bill to prove to any doubters that this is the truth as I know the original contractor simply refused to believe it because he didn't want to do warranty work). Not only that, the pump is on automatic so because the balance tank was empty due to this leak it ran dry for nearly a week before we realized there was a leak and it is now not pumping water. The pool water started turning green so we also bought 10 bags of salt (6 from the original contractor because he does have damn good prices) to keep the level at 4000ppm not knowing where the salt was going.

16 000 baht + 3000 baht worth of salt + new pump at 15 000baht = 34 000 baht. The costs are never ending on this pool disaster.

The new contractor is coming on Monday to let me know how much it will cost to repair this leak. I will let everyone know the cost at a later date.

Be very very careful my friends of expert expat pool builders in Isaan.

Because of this new leak and after we repair it I am putting the house on the market and we are moving. I simply will never live in this otherwise beautiful family home that my kids grew up in again because of this pool.

I know that the expat that built this pool reads this forum so I say to him with the utmost respect. Learn from the mistakes you made on my pool and ensure that all the good people whose pools you build in the future do not have the same issues. Preferably stop building pools. It is definitely not your forte.

Merry xmas and a happy new year.

[Enid]

How much did you initially pay for the pool. ?

450 000 baht.

[IMHO]

I have to say I'm a little surprised the original contractor hasn't come back with better support for you Enid, shame on them.

Have you considered just filling in the hole in the ground and forgetting about it? It's not particularly nice to sell something like this and make it someone else's problem... And whoever buys it will likely be back on here looking for advice in no time - so dots will be joined.. Just as we've all pretty much figured out who the original contractor was

Edited December 26, 2014 by IMHO